Author Topic: Harvey Weinstein, and other prominent harassers  (Read 3096 times)

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Offline bayonetbrant

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Re: Harvey Weinstein
« Reply #150 on: November 13, 2017, 05:50:57 AM »
https://www.facebook.com/EllenPage/posts/10155212835577449


you should be able to see this w/o a FB acc't
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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Harvey Weinstein
« Reply #151 on: November 13, 2017, 08:28:28 AM »
Takei has helped publicly foster a lifestyle of rampant hedonism (a lifestyle for the protection of which, political forces were marshaled a few decades ago in his area that stomped the brakes hard on stopping an epidemic, leaving hundreds of thousands of people dead in its wake who could have been easily saved otherwise!)

Just curious. What kind of details do you have around this?

+1


Which part? I suppose the more important part would be the one that has left so many people to horribly die.

When HIV entered the United States, back in the late 70s and early 80s, by far its most significant spread was through the gay bathhouse culture which had exploded in popularity among gay men as a political status symbol of the gay liberation movement. Even before HIV arrived, the bathhouses had been a breeding ground for other diseases, practically approaching epidemic level in the relatively short time the bathhouses had become a publicly acknowledged (and encouraged) operation. This was back when the acceptance of homosexuality focused on it being a lifestyle choice equivalent to any other such choice -- largely due to successful attempts to get it removed from the category of being a medical pathology. Consequently, there was a strong political pressure at the time to minimize homosexual desire being a genetic or other environmental production: if a person couldn't help feeling such a way, that might be indicative of a medical problem, to be treated and cured. As a lifestyle choice, people had rights to the behavior instead.

Then came AIDS, the virus for which wasn't identified for years. But it quickly became apparent, from a purely medical perspective, that the bathhouse lifestyle of frequent anonymous multi-partner unprotected sex, especially of homosexual types of sex among men, was spreading the disease through the gay male population (not only at the bathhouses as their clients traveled across the nation) and, from there, to other victims through contaminated needles and various other blood transfers.

There were, and are, long-established medical procedures for combating epidemic spreads, but even before HIV arrived the Center for Disease Control had run into major political problems trying to implement those controls in the bathhouse culture. Now that a disease had arrived which, unlike the other diseases, almost universally affected homosexual victims due to behaviors popular and positively promoted in their culture as their rights, the basic protocols for stopping the epidemic spread were attacked by the leaders of the Democratic Party and by gay activists as "homophobia": close the bathhouses, at least temporarily; identify and test everyone involved with bathhouse activity and everyone involved with anyone involved with bathhouse activity (down to three or four levels of recursion), because carriers did not always show symptoms even for a protracted time; contact and alert anyone currently in a relationship with carriers or with people at high risk for being a carrier, and warn them to stop doing things which would expose them to risk; gather and isolate the carriers for study to learn the source of the pathogen and its treatment. And broadly speaking, influence people to stop doing the behaviors which lead to epidemic levels of contamination.

Not only were those methods of saving both the carriers and potential victims attacked politically, at least one law was actually passed in California preventing those methods as illegal -- illegal to be applied for homosexuals or against the defended homosexual lifestyle choices, not illegal for other people and their lifestyle choices, of course. As late as June 2003, there were no federal laws on the books requiring testing for the national epidemic of the AIDS virus (now identified) or reporting of infections. Public infection zones were still legally running, like the bathhouses and more publicly 'open' sex clubs, and there were no more attempts at closing them, since they had been politically defended as necessary expressions of the rights of that lifestyle choice. (I don't know for sure, but I suspect from the lack of relevant activity and cultural promotion for it, that there are still no such federal laws or even state laws fourteen years later for insisting on proper epidemic treatment of AIDS.)

By 2003, roughly five hundred thousand people, mostly homosexual men, had died from the epidemic. I don't know how far the numbers have climbed since then.

Even before then, it had become so culturally obvious that these people had died due to insistence on a lifestyle choice, that a swing in the popular explanation and justification for homosexual behavior was well underway. It wasn't their fault, they couldn't help behaving this way, they were born this way or had had it imposed upon them from their environment (although having a genetic disposition to it, like hair color or a taste for some foods, proved more useful as a defense for continuing the behavior).

These explanations were marshaled, not merely to defend homosexual behavior to be as morally acceptable as any other natural taste or lifestyle choice, but to keep defending the specific combinations of behavior that had led to the epidemic death levels.

Now, not every gay activist colluded with the strategy to score political points defending the lifestyle methods that abetted the epidemic. Randy Shilts, who himself died of AIDS in 1994, wrote a history of the epidemic up to around that time called And the Band Played On, which was highly critical of the political mindgames being played at the expense of the lives of (mostly) gay men.

But that combination of factors was, objectively and demonstrably, defended as a fully valid lifestyle, both by activists seeking to protect their sexual behavior from criticism, and by politicians seeking to score political points coming and going (so to speak). And the medical results followed as they naturally would.

My impression that George Takei has written things supporting rights to this type of behavior may be hazily mistaken, I grant; God knows I don't keep up with him all that closely, I just see things he says pass by occasionally. But the overall situation is a matter of public record and can be researched.
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Offline OJsDad

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Offline Ubercat

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Re: Harvey Weinstein
« Reply #153 on: November 15, 2017, 02:04:28 PM »
Jason, could you say "lifestyle choice" a few more times? I don't think that you emphasized it enough.  :)
Numbers 31:17-18
"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

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Offline DoctorQuest

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Re: Harvey Weinstein
« Reply #154 on: November 15, 2017, 02:38:55 PM »
Jason, could you say "lifestyle choice" a few more times? I don't think that you emphasized it enough.  :)

At the risk of further thread derailment.....I have been trying to figure out if Jason means being gay or frequenting bath houses.

I have some gay friends who will tell you in no uncertain terms that homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice. I get that the bath house culture was not the best idea in the world.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 07:36:46 PM by DoctorQuest »
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Offline Ubercat

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Re: Harvey Weinstein
« Reply #155 on: November 15, 2017, 03:09:26 PM »
I try to imagine choosing to be gay. I don't have it in me and I've never met a fellow hetero who thinks they could just choose it either. My theory is that fundies who screech about it being a choice are actually gay themselves. They project the urges they feel onto others to prove to themselves that it's just a choice everybody has to make in life.
Numbers 31:17-18
"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

Psalm 137:9
"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

Offline mirth

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Re: Harvey Weinstein
« Reply #156 on: November 16, 2017, 08:27:19 AM »
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Offline mirth

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Offline Steelgrave

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Re: Harvey Weinstein
« Reply #158 on: November 16, 2017, 10:56:48 AM »
Jason, could you say "lifestyle choice" a few more times? I don't think that you emphasized it enough.  :)

At the risk of further thread derailment.....I have been trying to figure out if Jason means being gay or frequenting bath houses.

I have some gay friends who will tell you in no uncertain terms that homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice. I get that the bath house culture was not the best idea in the world.

My favorite aunt and uncle were gay. Both told me they had always felt attracted to the same sex as early as puberty. Gay friends of my uncle were very open about being born gay and I never once heard any of them say it was a choice they made. And this was in the seventies when being gay was not only difficult but actually still illegal in some places.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 10:58:21 AM by Steelgrave »
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Offline mirth

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« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 02:18:24 PM by mirth »
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Offline joram

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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Harvey Weinstein
« Reply #161 on: November 18, 2017, 07:43:19 AM »
At the risk of further thread derailment.....I have been trying to figure out if Jason means being gay or frequenting bath houses.

I meant frequenting bath houses, building and engaging in and protecting that culture. That didn't just accidentally happen; people made choices about it, to promote absolutely and morbidly irresponsible sexual behavior. My critique of that would be exactly the same if heterosexual men or women had been largely the victims of the results. (In fact I'll add that heterosexual men and women, though somewhat moreso men historically speaking, do promote practically identical behavior. There just hasn't been a specific pathological result that has cropped up yet to shine a light on it. Tons of other degrading, abusive, depersonalizing, and I'm just going to say flatly immoral results, resulting in tragedies too numerous for any human to count, but not such a focused specific tragedy. Yet.)

Homosexuality itself looks, to me on the evidence, to be far more complex than simply being born that way, or simply being a lifestyle choice, or simply anything. ;)
GROGS OF CRISIS -- a four-player mp of GMT's boardgame Time of Crisis, set in the decades before Diocletian.

Me vs Barth -- DC1: Blitz

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline Ubercat

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Re: Harvey Weinstein
« Reply #162 on: November 18, 2017, 09:34:18 AM »
Well said.
Numbers 31:17-18
"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

Psalm 137:9
"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

Offline DoctorQuest

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Re: Harvey Weinstein
« Reply #163 on: November 18, 2017, 10:27:53 AM »
"Everything you read on the internet is true." - Benjamin Franklin

"Zero-G and I feel fine....." - John Glenn

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage, inventor of the alternative fact.

Offline mirth

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