Barcelona Fighting

[Atilla60]

Honestly cannot predict what will happen next...

It's a tough call.
I don't know, but if Madrid is gonna pursue the hard-ball line. The next logical step is to disband the Catalan parliament, send home the local police and then flood Barcelona with Spanish police.
Man I hope I'm wrong

[Atilla60]

European Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker said the EU "doesn't need any more cracks, more splits".

Well, maybe this needs to be a wake-up call to the EU, then.

Juncker running his mouth just goes to show why an EU-army is a bad idea

[Staggerwing]

I'm just curious- has there been any talk of surreptitious Russian social-media agitprop in all of this?

[Boggit]

European Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker said the EU "doesn't need any more cracks, more splits".

Well, maybe this needs to be a wake-up call to the EU, then.

Juncker running his mouth just goes to show why an EU-army is a bad idea

I totally agree with you Atilla, but restate EU army to what it will really be - an EUSSR army if Merkel and Macaroon get their way to federalise Europe into a state of the Soviet "European" people...

Check out Merkel's background - her Dad was the Red Pastor (similar in attitude to Jim Jones) and closely associated with the STASI. I suspect years of Marxist indoctrination has left its mark, and don't forget that Manuel Barroso a relatively recent President of the EU Politburo Commission was an open Maoist, as well as a current non-exec chairman of Goldman Sachs International (Yes, give that one a bit of thought... >:D). There is a real danger that if federalisation is achieved in the EU that a new Soviet style state will emerge, which has the potential to strangle not just national patriots, but genuine democratic challenge to its legitimacy, particularly as the legislative institution that really matters is the unelected EU Commission, which can initiate law without any influence from the citizens of Europe. I know big business loves the EU, but they also do China (which remains a one party totalitarian state), and they did the Nazi's before WW2 as well. Business interests and political freedom are not the same, and conflating the two - as we are seeing with Brexit - is a very dangerous path to go down for the ordinary citizen, although it does play into the hands of the globalists who are amoral where it comes to profits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst_Kasner
Good paper on Merkel from a writers collective based in Switzerland...
http://better-management.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Understanding-the-EU-Angela-Merkel’s-redgreen-past.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Manuel_Barroso
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Workers%27_Communist_Party
http://www.eamonn.com/2013/12/26/mao-the-mass-murderer-and-his-supporters/
https://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/865
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM2Ql3wOGcU

Wake up call for the EU.... :DD

They are too invested to change, and do you really think they care about democracy? The legislative institutions of the EU are on a par with the old Soviet Union. That didn't work out well either.

[BanzaiCat]

I'm surprised Merkel won re-election. She seemed something of a twat and I thought most Germans thought the same thing, but apparently not.

[bbmike]

^After Trump was elected it's anything goes.

[bayonetbrant]

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/10/settlers-catalan-declare-independence-free-ore-sheep/

[Sir Slash]

Free ore and sheep.
That's a deal that's hard to bleat... err, I mean 'beat'.  #:-)

[MikeGER]

I'm surprised Merkel won re-election. She seemed something of a twat and I thought most Germans thought the same thing, but apparently not.

she was not reelected 
(i dunno if some international media had -of course- bent it that way?)

her supporting CDU/CSU party got only 32.9% and had a dramatic loss of 8.6 % since 2013   ....the worst result since 1949!

SPD which was the junior member of her great coalition reached 20,5% and suffered a loss of 5.2 % ...they refuse to be junior partner again and prefer oppositional role or reelections 

so now poor Merkel is forced to form a new German government with gluing together a coalition with the help of The Green party (9.2%) and the neoliberal (= market, taxes, biz) FDP party (10.2%) or live with a minority government, or more likely we will see new elections, something  that all established old parties hate in fear of even more losses.

of course the goals of the Green in most topics are diametrical to the statements of the Neoliberals and even more to those of Bavarian CSU and the remaining right wing part of CDU... The talks, called "exploratory negotiations", will take months!
especially because there are elections in Bavaria in autumn 2018 and the CSU has to stand up against the new also conservatively AfD and so cant give in to the Greens when its about migration, so called 'refugees', crime fighting, Islam cuddling and climatepolitics killing the automobil-industry, you name it... 

Most remarkable is that the new right-leaning AfD party made it third lagerst party into the Bundestag with 12.6 %,
even so they got constantly the full blown 'Trump treatment' of the mostly Merkel-thrall-like media and journalists.
and in addition had to suffer from internal wings fights and so some resigns from party-office.
and a constantly personal smear against their leading politicians by the media and social networks going apeshit all day on any remarks in talkshows or from second-line personal on small town rallies   
   

[bayonetbrant]

(my emphasis)

the new right-leaning AfD party

"leaning"?

That's like saying Jarhead kind of thinks guns are neat.  >:D

[airboy]

I just got finished spending a week in Spain visiting 5 cities including Barcelona.

First, lots of Spanish flags flying from private apartments.  You seldom, if ever, see this in Europe.  My estimate is 5% of the private apartment balconies outside of Barcelona had Spanish flags.

Second, many of the ordinary Spaniards I talked to are furious with the Catalans.

Third, lots of people in Catalonia are mad and protesting.

Prediction - this will go on for a very long time.  People running for political office outside of Catalan can win votes demogoging the issue.  People in some Catalan districts can win votes demogoging the issue on the other side.  This will not be an issue that goes quietly into the night.

But if people don't start bombing or shooting each other over it, it should never become as big of an issue as many in the world.

Still, remarkable to see so many national flags on private property in Europe on an ordinary day.

As a final point, we gave up our three extra days in Barcelona due to the rioting and uncertainty of the situation.  We would have been in the air when the Spanish national government made their decision and had no idea how the people in Barcelona would react.  We were able to get our flight rescheduled at the last minute at a not inconsiderable cost.

[Sir Slash]

Glad to hear you all made it out safely Airboy. One Spanish Civil War is enough for me.

[bayonetbrant]

comparisons (or not) to Ukraine

https://medium.com/dfrlab/shifting-stories-on-the-spanish-donbas-9af93eed7ba9

[gukan]

I just got finished spending a week in Spain visiting 5 cities including Barcelona.

First, lots of Spanish flags flying from private apartments.  You seldom, if ever, see this in Europe.  My estimate is 5% of the private apartment balconies outside of Barcelona had Spanish flags.

Second, many of the ordinary Spaniards I talked to are furious with the Catalans.

Third, lots of people in Catalonia are mad and protesting.

Prediction - this will go on for a very long time.  People running for political office outside of Catalan can win votes demogoging the issue.  People in some Catalan districts can win votes demogoging the issue on the other side.  This will not be an issue that goes quietly into the night.

But if people don't start bombing or shooting each other over it, it should never become as big of an issue as many in the world.

Still, remarkable to see so many national flags on private property in Europe on an ordinary day.

As a final point, we gave up our three extra days in Barcelona due to the rioting and uncertainty of the situation.  We would have been in the air when the Spanish national government made their decision and had no idea how the people in Barcelona would react.  We were able to get our flight rescheduled at the last minute at a not inconsiderable cost.

I'm sorry you feel that you have to gave up some days in Barcelona. While it's true that we have some protest here, it's not a chaos what we are living... some day you have a few thousands of people join with his spanish flags and another day you have others with the catalan flag  8) , everything without violence.
Hope one day we can have our referendum and, whatever the result is, everyboy respect it  :)

[airboy]

We had to make a decision before leaving the USA.  Deadline day happened when we would have been in the air.  My wife has asthma, and if tear gas ended up being widely used it could have been serious for her.  There was just too much uncertainty to risk our subsequent two week cruise to Spain.

We spent three days in Barcelona two years ago and had a very nice time.