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Looks like news just released about Paradox's next strategy game from the creators of Crusader Kings.....sad part, sounds like not until sometime in 2019 :(


https://www.pcgamer.com/imperator-rome-revealed-at-pdxcon-2018/

Screen shots here:
https://www.paradoxplaza.com/imperator-rome/IMIM01GSK0000001-MASTER.html

QuoteImperator: Rome's features include:

Character Management: A living world of characters with varying skills and traits that will change over time. They will lead your nation, govern your provinces and command your armies and fleets. We also introduce our new, more human-like character art.

Diverse Populations: Citizens, freemen, tribesmen and slaves - each population with its own culture and religion. Whether they fill your armies, fill your coffers or fill your colonies, keep an eye on their happiness - your success depends on their satisfaction.

Battle Tactics: Choose your approach before battle to counter the stratagems of your foes.

Military Traditions: Each culture has a unique way of waging war. Romans and Celts have different options available to them. Unlock unique bonuses, abilities and units.

Different Government Types: Manage the senate in a Republic, hold your court together in a monarchy, answer to the clans in a tribal system.

Barbarians and Rebellions: Migrating barbarians may sack or settle your best land, while disloyal governors or generals can turn against you - taking their armies with them!

Trade: Goods provide bonuses to their home province. Will you take advantage of stockpiles for local strength or trade excess goods to spread the wealth around?

Provincial Improvement: Invest in buildings, roads and defences to make your kingdom stronger and richer.

;D

Nah, excellent news would have been Victoria 3. This is just good news.  :P

Quote from: bbmike on May 19, 2018, 07:56:03 AM
Nah, excellent news would have been Victoria 3. This is just good news.  :P

+1 concur.

Nah, Rome better than Victoria :)

Looking forward to it!

I see they're turning a number of PC games into board games too - no doubt to be padded out with a plethora of cardboard dlcs!

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on May 19, 2018, 09:30:09 AM
Nah, Rome better than Victoria :)

Heretic!

In seriousness, this does look very cool and no question I'll buy it.

I'm just really impatient for Vicky 3 at this point.

There was lots of speculation that as Chris King is back, he's working on Vic 3 for a 2019 ish announcement.

Quote from: fabius on May 19, 2018, 10:08:31 AM
There was lots of speculation that as Chris King is back, he's working on Vic 3 for a 2019 ish announcement.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fplease.gif&hash=79b5fa88c4dbd5efb66763bad0d968825be8d4ef)

I'm ok with this...but I demand that they announce Vicky 3 next Paradoxcon  :knuppel2:

That being said, I love Rome. Been wanting a Rome grand strategy game for long time (I know there is TW Rome 2, but TW is crap).

I'm happy there will be a sequel to EU:Rome. It's a buy for me.

Not really a sequel. New IP, and Johan said a big project. So as long as it sells well should have a long life of improvements.

Early impressions are they are taking some things to next level.

As for Vic 3, it will come and look forward to how they move that forward.

It sounds from the description like CK2: Rome more than an EU:Rome.

Quote from: Boggit on May 19, 2018, 12:25:55 PM
It sounds from the description like CK2: Rome more than an EU:Rome.

Best bet at the mo' is a hybrid, with likely some other features neither have.

Drool.

Sounds more like a CK/Vicky combo with maybe just a dash of EU: Rome.

Drool again.

Now let's just fast-forward to 5 years from now when it's all patched up and in its prime.

Quote from: glen55 on May 19, 2018, 02:49:24 PM
Drool.

Sounds more like a CK/Vicky combo with maybe just a dash of EU: Rome.

Drool again.

Now let's just fast-forward to 5 years from now when it's all patched up and in its prime.

:DD

Irony is not lost on you, my friend! :2funny: >:D

Quote from: sandman2575 on May 19, 2018, 10:04:49 AM

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on May 19, 2018, 09:30:09 AM
Nah, Rome better than Victoria :)

Heretic!

In seriousness, this does look very cool and no question I'll buy it.

I'm just really impatient for Vicky 3 at this point.

Some day I will have to retry Vicky again....don't recall it holding my attention much back in the day but maybe I didn't give it enough of a try.

Been wanting this; top of my Pdox wishlist.  :bd:

I just hope they give it a more thorough treatment than EU Rome got.  Need more in many areas, but especially character interaction like that in CK2.

Also:

Does the following screenshot imply that there will be more command options for armies.  Those order buttons at the top of the army window, in this screenshot (https://www.paradoxplaza.com/dw/image/v2/BBSX_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-paradox-catalog/default/dw26add4d7/product-images/imperator-rome/pdxcon_imperator_screenshots_05_combat.jpg?sw=2000&sh=2000&sm=fit), seems to indicate there will be more detailed orders available than earlier games using the engine.

Yes

QuoteBattle Tactics: Choose your approach before battle to counter the stratagems of your foes.

And yes, Johan as said this is a big project. Not a small one like EU Rome 1 was or MotE

Yes. If this is CK in Rome, I'll be very, VERY excited. I enjoyed EU: Rome even though I felt it was very underwhelming. Compared to the other EU titles, it just seemed quite simple and watered down.

A fully realized grand strategy game set in ancient Rome will be a dream come true. 

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on May 21, 2018, 11:37:01 AM
Yes. If this is CK in Rome, I'll be very, VERY excited. I enjoyed EU: Rome even though I felt it was very underwhelming. Compared to the other EU titles, it just seemed quite simple and watered down.

A fully realized grand strategy game set in ancient Rome will be a dream come true.

I completely agree with you on both points.

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on May 21, 2018, 11:37:01 AM
Yes. If this is CK in Rome, I'll be very, VERY excited. I enjoyed EU: Rome even though I felt it was very underwhelming. Compared to the other EU titles, it just seemed quite simple and watered down.

A fully realized grand strategy game set in ancient Rome will be a dream come true.

:bd:

A dev posted this to calm some speculation about Pops

QuoteIndividual pops can absolutely have their own culture and religion.
You can have a city with 3 slave pops that are all of different culture/religion from each other.

Sounds more like Vicky 2 in Roman times.

The more I hear the more I think it's going to be the better looking sister to EU Rome, with longer legs; bigger boobs, and special moves.

There's a thread on redit with lots of inform from a IGN guy. Can we link redit here ?

Quote from: fabius on May 22, 2018, 01:00:05 PM
The more I hear the more I think it's going to be the better looking sister to EU Rome, with longer legs; bigger boobs, and special moves.

There's a thread on redit with lots of inform from a IGN guy. Can we link redit here ?

Link away.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Imperator/comments/8l9srd/what_the_rome_actually_means_i_got_to_see/#bottom-comments

So as IGN guy it seems he got to chat to Johan and get quite a lot out of him. Obviously Alpha so much is not 'confirmed' but it all sounds like Johan/Pdox meat and potatoes. Just mixed well in the antiquity setting.

Scroll down to see the answers to specific questions.

I havent't seen the start date for this. But if its at the start of the 1st Punic War and there is a converter to CKII, then you could have a game going all the way to 1812. Thats over 2000 years of game play.

In case anybody interested missed this

Imperator Rome from Paradox....  :D

(https://www.gameimperator.com/assets/screenshots/screen2-dc35f0f1f7b5aa740e4473a63a94e2ec6e3b6ce60aa93c4a96ca9354148459c4.jpg)

(https://www.gameimperator.com/assets/screenshots/screen3-89298ba9ab79d06c9a77538dd9863bb90f3dcdc9365dfe8162fe283bda8be340.jpg)

(https://www.gameimperator.com/assets/screenshots/screen4-cbd2e03be74a927c007788898ba2314564544f046f26ea3d8db12c66400533af.jpg)

(https://www.gameimperator.com/assets/screenshots/screen1-af6df89397496fa20f685ad61fde793562b6144779e116f029e83a5beb1730f1.jpg)

https://www.gameimperator.com/?utm_source=fb-internal&utm_medium=social-paid&utm_content=banner&utm_term=awa&utm_campaign=imro_imro_us-ca_20180827_nt_cawe_ab

http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=22337.0

Caesar magnam de exspiravit!!! :o




[spoiler]Great Caesar's Ghost! [/spoiler]

Quote from: OJsDad on August 28, 2018, 02:04:00 PM
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=22337.0

DOH! Couldn't find it earlier....  :-[

Austrians  ::)

EU Rome came out years ago. Is this an update or something new?

New

Title of thread shouldn't be EU Rome to avoid confusion.

We should be merging the threads anyway.

Or Barth can just post the screenies to the other thread.  O:-) http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=22337.0

Edited to add: IT'S LIKE I'M A MODERATOR EXCEPT DIFFERENT!  :D

Quote from: JasonPratt on August 30, 2018, 03:05:22 PM
We should be merging the threads anyway.

Or Barth can just post the screenies to the other thread.  O:-) http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=22337.0

Edited to add: IT'S LIKE I'M A MODERATOR EXCEPT DIFFERENT!  :D

Ask and you...sometimes...shall receive.

Quote from: JasonPratt on August 30, 2018, 03:05:22 PM

Edited to add: IT'S LIKE I'M A MODERATOR EXCEPT DIFFERENT!  :D

You're certainly different.   :D

Release date: April 25 (https://store.steampowered.com/app/859580/Imperator_Rome/).

Same day as RTW2 :-\  Guess this one's gonna have to wait for a sale (for me)...

I wish I could get this game, but Paradox interactive games never last for more than a few hours. I can't create my own goals and blobbing out is so boring.

I don't understand. Why can't you have your own goals in EU? I do it all the time.

Quote from: mikeck on April 20, 2019, 07:24:01 AM
I don't understand. Why can't you have your own goals in EU? I do it all the time.

I think he means that he, personally, is not very good at setting goals up for himself in such video games, and thus prefers less sandbox-y games.

A first look by the Historical Gamer.

I think I am the same as Hof. I want to like these games I just have a hard time enjoying them.

For me it's a choice between Imperator and Aggressors.

I want to get one, just haven't decided which one yet.

Imperator will (a) look a lot better; and (b) be based on a long-polished game system which will (c) provide a more detailed political experience of managing a country during the time period. Along with ongoing expansions. (A never-ending stream of game-breaking expansions...  >:D )

They're quite different game systems providing rather different ways of playing. Both are worth getting, but having actually played Aggressors if I could get one it would be the other.

Bonus points for Imperator if they find a way to connect it with the earliest CK2 start.

Quote from: Gusington on April 20, 2019, 02:02:21 PM
I think I am the same as Hof. I want to like these games I just have a hard time enjoying them.

For me it's a choice between Imperator and Aggressors.

I want to get one, just haven't decided which one yet.

Do you mean Imperator Rome V Aggressors.......or as I suspect....do you mean Imperator v Field of Glory Empires.....a much fairer comparison ?😉

Quote from: solops on August 29, 2018, 12:00:46 PM
EU Rome came out years ago. Is this an update or something new?

It's not as new as peeps think.  The underlying stuff you see in the beta shots is from EU:Rome, same base resources, same unit types, etc. they've basically updated it to current engine and done an update with lessons learned from other titles.   

So it's not EU:Rome, but it isn't something entirely fresh and new either.

Quote from: devoncop on April 20, 2019, 03:32:30 PM
Do you mean Imperator Rome V Aggressors.......or as I suspect....do you mean Imperator v Field of Glory Empires.....a much fairer comparison ?😉

I suspect he's buying both of those. I KNOW I AM!!  :D

(Then again, I already have Aggressors, so opportunity costs are already sunk there...  ;D )

Field of Glory - Empires is a no brainer for me. But I have a long sordid history with Paradox games and just not being able to enjoy them. I am wondering if the same will happen with Imperator and if I am better off getting Aggressors instead.

Quote from: malize on April 20, 2019, 05:54:12 PM

Quote from: solops on August 29, 2018, 12:00:46 PM
EU Rome came out years ago. Is this an update or something new?

It's not as new as peeps think.  The underlying stuff you see in the beta shots is from EU:Rome, same base resources, same unit types, etc. they've basically updated it to current engine and done an update with lessons learned from other titles.   

So it's not EU:Rome, but it isn't something entirely fresh and new either.

This is what i am seing as well...looks very similar.

Quote from: Gusington on April 20, 2019, 09:46:31 PM
Field of Glory - Empires is a no brainer for me. But I have a long sordid history with Paradox games and just not being able to enjoy them. I am wondering if the same will happen with Imperator and if I am better off getting Aggressors instead.

Ah...now I understand.


I tried Aggressors but it was too abstract for me but I know it does have a lot of fans.

Like you though..FOG Empires is already in the financial debit column for my accounts this year....It is non negotiable  ;)

Quote from: Tpek on April 20, 2019, 09:48:09 AM

Quote from: mikeck on April 20, 2019, 07:24:01 AM
I don't understand. Why can't you have your own goals in EU? I do it all the time.

I think he means that he, personally, is not very good at setting goals up for himself in such video games, and thus prefers less sandbox-y games.

Yeah pretty much this. Conquering is all i know :-[ :-[

Quote from: Anguille on April 21, 2019, 12:31:58 AM

Quote from: malize on April 20, 2019, 05:54:12 PM

Quote from: solops on August 29, 2018, 12:00:46 PM
EU Rome came out years ago. Is this an update or something new?

It's not as new as peeps think.  The underlying stuff you see in the beta shots is from EU:Rome, same base resources, same unit types, etc. they've basically updated it to current engine and done an update with lessons learned from other titles.   

So it's not EU:Rome, but it isn't something entirely fresh and new either.

This is what i am seing as well...looks very similar.

To be fair, isn't that the same thing generally did with Crusader Kings and EU which are enjoying reasonable success?  Both had core foundation set in their prior versions, with new engine and lessons learned from them?  But both were fundamentally the same concept, which isn't a surprise for a Paradox game?

I guess to me no surprise, nor did I expect it to be revolutionary...just more evolutionary.  I suck at all the Paradox games, but still looking forward to it and it is a little easier to get into, then another plus.

CK2 in particular is, in effect, one of the world's greatest RPGs. (Not so much EU4 due to the different mechanics, much less Vicky2 or the HOI games.)

I suspect Imperator will be similar.


If you've had trouble getting into the Paradox games, then really that settles things Gus! -- Imperator is going to be a Paradox engine game (not sure if it's an upgraded Clausewitz engine again, or a new engine, yet). There's no reason to expect things to be different from past experience.

Just time to watch some Aggressor LPs or AARs, and see if the game mechanics are for you.  O:-)

(And/or wait patiently for FoG:Emp and/or other games to release.  >:D )

Imperator is built on the Clausewitz engine.

Is that the EU IV, HOI IV, CK2 engine?

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 21, 2019, 09:28:44 AM
Imperator is built on the Clausewitz engine.

Given the other choices available or pending for this time period I am not inclined toward this title. If it is still using the same old engine then that pretty well seals it for me, especially given Paradox's DLC habits.

Quote from: mikeck on April 21, 2019, 12:46:49 PM
Is that the EU IV, HOI IV, CK2 engine?

Yes

Quote from: solops on April 21, 2019, 12:49:20 PM

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 21, 2019, 09:28:44 AM
Imperator is built on the Clausewitz engine.

Given the other choices available or pending for this time period I am not inclined toward this title. If it is still using the same old engine then that pretty well seals it for me, especially given Paradox's DLC habits.

I completely understand.... but I love the DLC thing. I pick and choose the expansions I want and am going to get years of updates and additional game mechanics. I look at HOI 4; I loved it when it came out  and still enjoy it because of the additional content.

I like that it gets updated over years. But we all like different things and if the EU, CK, Stellaris, HOI mechanics don't blow your skirt up, then they don't...no reason to think this would

Personally, I loved EU:Rome VV and have been waiting a long time for this

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 21, 2019, 09:28:44 AM
Imperator is built on the Clausewitz engine.

I suspected it would be, but I couldn't be sure. It was possible they'd be using this game to introduce a 3rd generation engine.

The previous engine was known as Europa; introduced with EU1 (their very first game in the series)? Clausewitz was introduced with.... HOI3 I think?

I suspected/feared it Imperator would be built on the Clausewitz engine. This makes things easier for me now I guess. I either get Aggressors on sale at some point (if I can play as the Seleucids) or I, like almost everyone else, wait for FoG Empires.

Clausewitz engine? Bummer. :buck2:

*predicts optimization issues* - "Oh when I get to year _____ it starts to slow down"

Quote from: Gusington on April 21, 2019, 06:31:33 PM
I suspected/feared it Imperator would be built on the Clausewitz engine. This makes things easier for me now I guess. I either get Aggressors on sale at some point (if I can play as the Seleucids) or I, like almost everyone else, wait for FoG Empires.

Aggressors is a good game but a little rough around the edges user interface wise.  I don't regret buying Aggressors but it's not one of my go to games.

I'm also just going to wait for FoG Empires.  Not wasting time with Imperator. 

Quote from: Gusington on April 20, 2019, 09:46:31 PM
Field of Glory - Empires is a no brainer for me. But I have a long sordid history with Paradox games and just not being able to enjoy them. I am wondering if the same will happen with Imperator and if I am better off getting Aggressors instead.

I agree with this completely. Imperator is going to be a hard pass from me. I love Roman history, but Paradox has burned me too many times with HOI4 and its expansions for me to want to support them further. Plus, I have little faith that the game will do the Classics justice.

FoG Empires just seems like the superior title in every possible way. Right now the only downside I can see of FoG:E is that there is no release date for it yet.

^AYE...CPT!

We need a release date!!

this isn't just the same old clausewitz engine. It has been updated. For starters, it is 64-bit. Johan claims it is a new version of the engine that runs much faster than the old.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/i-love-the-map.1099558/&sdpDevPosts=1 (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/i-love-the-map.1099558/&sdpDevPosts=1)

By the way, Gus...you can play as the Jews!

(https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/859580/ss_9817af6a22319956fcf68b596324763479e626dc.1920x1080.jpg?t=1555500348)

The Jews or the Hebrews?

Quote from: Anguille on April 22, 2019, 04:39:19 PM
The Jews or the Hebrews?

Same thing, no?

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 22, 2019, 04:41:52 PM

Quote from: Anguille on April 22, 2019, 04:39:19 PM
The Jews or the Hebrews?

Same thing, no?

I would guess so, at least back then.

But i guess it's one of the biggest question the world may never have an answer to?  ;)

It is already possible to play as Judea in Europa Universalis: Rome (just one province). Do you know how many provinces does Judea have in Imperator?

I'm getting bored playing as a Jew.

On one side, i find it fascinating to have so many provinces but on the other hand i am wondering if it's not way too much (with the size of the map). How can you handle a large empire with hundreds of provinces? The sizes of the provinces in EU: Rome seem very manageable to me.

Diocletian said the same thing, and that's why he invented the tetrarchy.

Quote from: Anguille on April 22, 2019, 04:46:23 PM
Do you know how many provinces does Judea have in Imperator?

I don't know, but many based on the screenshot.

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 22, 2019, 03:28:04 PM
this isn't just the same old clausewitz engine. It has been updated. For starters, it is 64-bit. Johan claims it is a new version of the engine that runs much faster than the old.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/i-love-the-map.1099558/&sdpDevPosts=1 (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/i-love-the-map.1099558/&sdpDevPosts=1)

By the way, Gus...you can play as the Jews!

I see. Hence the specs are higher than even Stellaris was (I could be wrong).

Quote from: Gusington on April 22, 2019, 03:24:02 PM
^AYE...CPT!

We need a release date!!

April 25

Quote from: steve58 on April 22, 2019, 05:59:50 PM

Quote from: Gusington on April 22, 2019, 03:24:02 PM
^AYE...CPT!

We need a release date!!

April 25

think he meant fog empires....

 :-[ doh

Strictly speaking, Jews and Hebrews do not necessarily overlap: there were Jewish kingdoms here and there who weren't Hebrew to amount to anything. (This is aside from whether Christianity/ies count as a form of Judaism.)

Offhand, there was the Jewish kingdom at the headwaters of the Nile in Ethiopia (complete with its own attempt at recreating a working Temple); the pre-Muslim Jewish kingdom on the south coast of Arabia; and a whole set of Turks on the north coast of the Black Sea who converted after one of the Byzantine Emperors insisted (in the face of ongoing threats from the Umayyid and now-burgeoning Abbasid dynasties) that all Jews remaining in the Roman Empire must be baptized Christian or leave. So a ton of them migrated northeast into the lands of one of the Khazar khans (of the western Turkate, iirc.) Not long afterward, emissaries from the Byzantine and Abbasid Empires arrived with the goal of trying to get the increasingly powerful Khazars to convert to (Eastern Orthodox) Christianity or to (Shi'ite) Islam, but the Khan while impressed by the arguments for one moral God Most High didn't want to tie himself to either side, so he famously trolled them by asking each of the parties which was more preferable: Judaism or the other team. Each of course said Judaism, so he retorted with insane troll logic, "Each of you have agreed to testify from your own mouths that Judaism is superior, so I shall go with that one, praise the God of Abraham!"  :2funny:

Despite his humorous diplomatic evasion, apparently his conversion was sincere and for a little while the largest Jewish nation ever to exist (so far) in history lay on the north coast of the Black Sea! But naturally, very few of them were of Hebrew families per se!

This is relevant to the Paradox games because, regardless of a Jewish kingdom being restricted to Palestine (naturally) in Imperator, the other three Jewish kingdoms I know about can be played in Crusader Kings 2! (And the Turkish Jewish kingdom might still be around at the start of EU4, not sure.)


Fun consequential fact: people like to joke about the super-goofy map results of playing a Paradox game for a while, like when China mechanics were added to CK2 resulting in China coming to own Switzerland or Sweden by various gameplay incidents. But something like that happened in real life, and the results are still around today! -- the "Turks" originally came from people who lived north of China and who were, in a primitive sense, culturally Chinese (broadly speaking, not as developed as the various "Chinese" cultures of course).

So not only did a large group of Chinese (in effect) come to take control of what's now "Turkey" (once they moved further west), but for a while some of them (farther to the north of what's now Turkey) constituted a Jewish empire, too!

History is awesome y'all.  :smitten:

Postscript: while Ashkenazi ethnic Jews are typically associated with central Europe, including with etymological links to the Scandaz tribes (the cradle of Germanic cultures, and connected as well to Cimmerians, supposedly descended from Gomer the grandson of Noah by Japheth), they also have some connection to the region known as Khazar where the Turks eventually arrived from north of China.

This would add a significant reason (aside from some other reasons, such as this being the only direction not substantially Christian and/or Muslim!) why Jews fleeing persecution from the Byzantines at the dawn of the Abbasid takeover of the Umayyad Caliphate, chose to migrate in that direction: Jewish families had long ago "dispersed" up the Caucausus route (between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea) from the headwaters of the Euphrates in Armenia, into the Khazar region. Under various pressures they emigrated westward again into Central Europe to become, by far, the largest ethnic group of Jews in modern history -- and the chief victims of the Holocaust.

So while the Khazarian Jewish Empire didn't last (to say the least), the boost from that event still lasts into modern times today! -- and has been a key factor in shaping world history :coolsmiley: (Tragically as well as heroically.)

Thanks for the lesson, Rabbi. Your new name shall be ShlomoPratt.

Jacob Prattstein.

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 22, 2019, 08:01:06 PM
Thanks for the lesson, Rabbi. Your new name shall be ShlomoPratt.

:DD

Hm, how does that come out as an acronym nickname? RaShP?

Because Rashp sounds awesome!  :coolsmiley:


(For those who don't know, rabbis often earn affectionate short-form nicknames based on the consonants for "rabbi" plus their name(s).)

Quote from: JasonPratt on April 23, 2019, 06:55:03 AM
Hm, how does that come out as an acronym nickname? RaShP?

Because Rashp sounds awesome!  :coolsmiley:


(For those who don't know, rabbis often earn affectionate short-form nicknames based on the consonants for "rabbi" plus their name(s).)

::)  Oy vey...

HA

Quote from: JasonPratt on April 22, 2019, 07:36:26 PM
Postscript: while Ashkenazi ethnic Jews are typically associated with central Europe, including with etymological links to the Scandaz tribes (the cradle of Germanic cultures, and connected as well to Cimmerians, supposedly descended from Gomer the grandson of Noah by Japheth), they also have some connection to the region known as Khazar where the Turks eventually arrived from north of China.

This would add a significant reason (aside from some other reasons, such as this being the only direction not substantially Christian and/or Muslim!) why Jews fleeing persecution from the Byzantines at the dawn of the Abbasid takeover of the Umayyad Caliphate, chose to migrate in that direction: Jewish families had long ago "dispersed" up the Caucausus route (between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea) from the headwaters of the Euphrates in Armenia, into the Khazar region. Under various pressures they emigrated westward again into Central Europe to become, by far, the largest ethnic group of Jews in modern history -- and the chief victims of the Holocaust.

So while the Khazarian Jewish Empire didn't last (to say the least), the boost from that event still lasts into modern times today! -- and has been a key factor in shaping world history :coolsmiley: (Tragically as well as heroically.)

The term Ashkenaz seems to come from a region in Turkey rather than in Germany.

And yeah, there were several Jewish kingdoms/empires aside from Israel/Judea throughout the ages, including during Roman times (a strong Jewish/Persian empire in Mesopotamia, where Jews were often the majority or a very large minority, for an example).


Also, as far as I know Turks (or more correctly, Turkic people) were originally from northern central Asia, and not from Siberia.

Strictly speaking (as I thought I noted) it comes from an area of northern Mesopotamia. But that might be considered part of (what is now) Turkey. It's connected to the Uratu area (i.e. Ararat), which is represented notably in the Biblical account by Ashkevaz (or -naz, via a scribal blip) being a grandson of Noah. (Along with Gomer, as previously noted, representing the Cimmarians.)

The term dates outside the Bible back as far as Sargon and the Akkadians, if I recall correctly.

Anyway, I was tracing them from northern Mesopotamia up between the Black Sea and the (inland) Caspian Sea to an area of the western Turks (across the Black Sea from where we think of Turkey today -- they didn't have that yet, the Byzantines did), and then westward into Central Europe from there.


Re the Turks coming from the north border of the northern Chinese nation: I read that just the other day in a recent historical overview of world cultures and nations during the Medieval periods. But I gather that they did come to there from somewhere in (north) Central Asia several centuries prior. They weren't Turkish culture when they arrived in what we might call southern Siberia; but they were early Turkish culture by the time they started going back west from north of China, forming two rather large though loose khanate empires along the way (sometimes pulled back into Chinese governance, the eastern khannate more than the western for obvious reasons).

Meanwhile, BACK ON TOPIC!



Rimmy is usually a comedy LPer, but here he's just doing a demo.

Just an FYI that if you purchase the game from Green Man Gaming, you can use the coupon code SPQR25 and get 25% off.

Don't know if that discount applies to just pre-purchases or includes after the game's release.

Good explanation of game mechanics :



Full playlist :  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLR5ZBfGW6e1nzFuXZe_goDQgkrxGoqLez

Quote from: WallysWorld on April 24, 2019, 09:56:18 AM
Just an FYI that if you purchase the game from Green Man Gaming, you can use the coupon code SPQR25 and get 25% off.

Don't know if that discount applies to just pre-purchases or includes after the game's release.

Hopefully they will deliver the keys on time, this time.

Quote from: JasonPratt on April 23, 2019, 05:29:32 PM
Strictly speaking (as I thought I noted) it comes from an area of northern Mesopotamia. But that might be considered part of (what is now) Turkey. It's connected to the Uratu area (i.e. Ararat), which is represented notably in the Biblical account by Ashkevaz (or -naz, via a scribal blip) being a grandson of Noah. (Along with Gomer, as previously noted, representing the Cimmarians.)

The term dates outside the Bible back as far as Sargon and the Akkadians, if I recall correctly.

Anyway, I was tracing them from northern Mesopotamia up between the Black Sea and the (inland) Caspian Sea to an area of the western Turks (across the Black Sea from where we think of Turkey today -- they didn't have that yet, the Byzantines did), and then westward into Central Europe from there.


Re the Turks coming from the north border of the northern Chinese nation: I read that just the other day in a recent historical overview of world cultures and nations during the Medieval periods. But I gather that they did come to there from somewhere in (north) Central Asia several centuries prior. They weren't Turkish culture when they arrived in what we might call southern Siberia; but they were early Turkish culture by the time they started going back west from north of China, forming two rather large though loose khanate empires along the way (sometimes pulled back into Chinese governance, the eastern khannate more than the western for obvious reasons).

Being a geek for history, thanks for your posts. Very interesting.  :bd:

received my key from fanatical this morning.....but still locked until release time so have to wait until tonight to try it out

saw this snippet from a review, although can't see full review yet because locked

Once you do get up to speed, though, Imperator treats you to one of the most involved and interesting combat systems I've seen in a genre that's usually dominated by crashing giant balls of infantry into each other with winning or losing based on who can bring the greatest numbers to bear. In addition to a plethora of troop types that ranges from infantry to chariots to mounted camels and elephants, each army has access to a set of stances that can counter or be countered by others. Their effectiveness is determined by the troop types in an army, so you can tell what tactics an opponent is most likely to use by scouting out how their forces are composed. If you see a lot of light infantry on the march, they're probably not going to use shock tactics, and those Scythians and their horse archers are potent but predictable. It's tactically interesting and rewards observation and planning, rather than settling with a lame, guess-based rock-paper-scissors system.

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on April 25, 2019, 03:56:04 AM
received my key from fanatical this morning.....but still locked until release time so have to wait until tonight to try it out

Still waiting for the GreenManGaming one.

https://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive

24 hours release stream is still going on.

4 hours before release (countdown on screen)

Thanks for that post on the combat, Grim. Of course now I am reconsidering wrestling with a game system my brain hates in a most likely vain attempt to get to that military bit described in what you posted. Chances of that actually happening? Very low :/

I just bought from Green Man Gaming so I'm awaiting the key as well.

Just got my key from GMG - keep checking those emails . . .

Quote from: knightsabret on April 25, 2019, 10:56:58 AM
Just got my key from GMG - keep checking those emails . . .

Ditto. I won't get a chance to play any significant amount before tomorrow at the earliest, but it is downloading away right now. Just a 1.1 GB download.

Quote from: Anguille on April 22, 2019, 04:46:23 PM
Do you know how many provinces does Judea have in Imperator?

Hopefully at least the Judean Peoples' Front and the Peoples' Front of Judea

Quote from: glen55 on April 25, 2019, 11:06:24 AM
Just a 1.1 GB download.

This isn't much!

Reviews are live, if anyone's interested. Our own (Strategy Gamer), but also T.J.'s is back up on IGN and Fraser on PC Gamer.

Quote from: Father Ted on April 25, 2019, 11:10:06 AM

Quote from: Anguille on April 22, 2019, 04:46:23 PM
Do you know how many provinces does Judea have in Imperator?

Hopefully at least the Judean Peoples' Front and the Peoples' Front of Judea

But not the Popular Judean Front.... splitters!

Reviews are saying that this one is the most welcoming of the Paradox grand strategy titles, with a great tutorial...hmm...

Yep seeing the same....jump in:)

Game seems to have a lot of bugs. Waiting for the first patches at least...

Quote from: Anguille on April 25, 2019, 01:21:27 PM
Game seems to have a lot of bugs. Waiting for the first patches at least...

Yes. It was a pain in the ass to even get it running, but I got it sorted out and have been working through the "tutorial" although its not really much of one. More like a collection of objectives for you to work through.

Game looks extremely deep. Very awesome.

Imperator: Rome Tutorials : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4hR-M4rl7udcO3UOKpQl4JVPOxthhZT-

Introduction - pt 1
Military & War - pt 2
Pops & Cities - pt 3
Economy & Trade - pt 4
Characters - pt 5
Governments - pt 6
First Steps - pt 7

Quote from: Anguille on April 25, 2019, 01:21:27 PM
Game seems to have a lot of bugs. Waiting for the first patches at least...

Interesting you say that.

It ran like a dream for me and I am making my way through the very clear tutorial as Rome.

You do need to read the mouseovers to see how to achieve the objectives but it is a great experience so far.

No crashes (which is no mean statement after the HOI 1V first day fiasco  :)

Quote from: devoncop on April 25, 2019, 03:06:08 PM

Quote from: Anguille on April 25, 2019, 01:21:27 PM
Game seems to have a lot of bugs. Waiting for the first patches at least...

Interesting you say that.

It ran like a dream for me and I am making my way through the very clear tutorial as Rome.

You do need to read the mouseovers to see how to achieve the objectives but it is a great experience so far.

No crashes (which is no mean statement after the HOI 1V first day fiasco  :)

It's based on what is reported on steam. I don't have the game yet.

Quote from: Anguille on April 25, 2019, 03:35:36 PM

Quote from: devoncop on April 25, 2019, 03:06:08 PM

Quote from: Anguille on April 25, 2019, 01:21:27 PM
Game seems to have a lot of bugs. Waiting for the first patches at least...

Interesting you say that.

It ran like a dream for me and I am making my way through the very clear tutorial as Rome.

You do need to read the mouseovers to see how to achieve the objectives but it is a great experience so far.

No crashes (which is no mean statement after the HOI 1V first day fiasco  :)

It's based on what is reported on steam. I don't have the game yet.

No worries.

Bear in mind those with no issues are playing and the ones with issues are posting (quite understandably)

I went back and played again since my post here and still no problems.

I did make the effort to watch a lot of pre release you tube streams so I am not going in totally cold but it does seem very smoothly put together. No challenge at all as this is the tutorial but so far so good. Just about to take out the Samnites .

A lot of people, including myself, could not get the game running at release. Since that time, a 50mb patch has been released and the problem seems to have been solved. I have had one CTD while playing, but otherwise it has been running well.

Its a very enjoyable game so far and extremely addictive. I think this is going to be a much improved experience over EU Vae Victis.

Good to hear! Crazy that it was released though without testers picking up this issue.

yep, not sure how anyone thought tutorials were good...like jarhead said, just a bunch of objectives without much explaination..,no idea why they think helpful

I just need one person here to state that it's less difficult to get in to than previous Paradox grand strategy titles. Pro reviews (PC Gamer and RPS) both love it and have posted glowing reviews.

Quote from: Gusington on April 25, 2019, 05:43:15 PM
I just need one person here to state that it's less difficult to get in to than previous Paradox grand strategy titles. Pro reviews (PC Gamer and RPS) both love it and have posted glowing reviews.

Its less difficult to get into than previous Paradox grand strategy titles.

Is this like CK2 or EUIV?...or some other title?

Weirdly, my impression (from a very brief messing around tonight after dling) is that it's more like Vicky2 than CK2 or EU4.

But that's a highly subjective impression, based on the (apparent) complexity of the trade routing.

Meanwhile, for those asking earlier, there are two Jewish nations in the game: Judea, and Samaria. The ruler of Judea is titled the........ um..... the Adonis.

...

........

...okay, I realize we're starting Oct 1 304 BCE, but still. I have questions about this.  ???

{pondering a moment}

Oh, they mean Adon, a Hebrew term for 'lord'! -- got it. (Probably related to the Greek god Adonis somewhere, but not sure how.)

There are a few other Jewish counties (or whatever they should be called, the smallest map units) running down the left flank of the Arabian peninsula, to the southwestern interior coastal area, as might be expected. But those are the only two nations right now per se. Galilee is a region of Syria right now, which is all part of Phrygia (mainly based in Asia Minor).

Samaria has 7 counties (themselves sorted into Kefar Shuni, and then everything else.)

Judea has I think 19 counties. They're spread across parts of several "provinces".

I'm sure I've got the term wrong, and what I'm really looking at are "cities" in the game's nomenclature: each smallest area unit is connected to one chief city, town, or village of the land nearby.

I'm seriously tempted to start with Samaria, just to simplify my life (until I'm inevitably steamrolled).  :D

Quote from: JasonPratt on April 25, 2019, 06:47:03 PM
Meanwhile, for those asking earlier, there are two Jewish nations in the game: Judea, and Samaria. The ruler of Judea is titled the........ um..... the Adonis.

...

........

...okay, I realize we're starting Oct 1 304 BCE, but still. I have questions about this.  ???

{pondering a moment}

Oh, they mean Adon, a Hebrew term for 'lord'! -- got it. (Probably related to the Greek god Adonis somewhere, but not sure how.)

I'm gonna take a stab at this...(oh boy) ...but isn't Judea in 304BCE- Hellenistic? As in one of the Diodachi- Ptolemy. (Yeah I read it on Wikipedia...)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coele-Syria     - Here's the article. 

Quote from: Toonces on April 25, 2019, 06:00:06 PM
Is this like CK2 or EUIV?...or some other title?

So far, I think it falls somewhere in between the two. It definitely has more character depth than the EU series of games. This adds a level of complexity and an RPG feel similar to CKII.

Unlike CK2, it is not possible (yet?) to play as the ruler of one of the smallest map units.

Poking around, there are other characters but they don't seem to be ruling anything themselves. They can be assigned to jobs, one of which seems to be governor, although (having chosen Samaria as a small nation with some potential) I'm not sure anyone is actually governing anything yet.

Quote from: CJReich46 on April 25, 2019, 07:05:51 PM
I'm gonna take a stab at this...(oh boy) ...but isn't Judea in 304BCE- Hellenistic? As in one of the Diodachi- Ptolemy. (Yeah I read it on Wikipedia...)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coele-Syria     - Here's the article.

That was my first thought, too, but in the game the culture there isn't Hellenic. And while they pay duties to Phrygia (one of the big Successor states) they aren't occupied; they're their own nation. (Same with Samaria.)

I would have to poke around to see how close-to-codex this is with the historical situation. We're not quite 30 years down from having been conquered by Alexander, and we ought to be governed under Ptolemy or one of his heirs.

JH you wanting gaming harlot!

I now feel this would be the wiser investment than Aggressors.

But I've been kicked in the gaming balls so many times by Paradox in the last 20 years!

gah

Quote from: Gusington on April 25, 2019, 08:23:42 PM
JH you wanting gaming harlot!

I now feel this would be the wiser investment than Aggressors.

But I've been kicked in the gaming balls so many times by Paradox in the last 20 years!

gah

If it's worth anything to you, I never got aggressors. It just seemed far too generic to me.

Of course it's worth something. You mean you never bought Aggressors at all or you 'didn't get it?'

I am girding my loins to try and wrestle with Imperator. It just sounds more fun, despite what its lineage means to me.

i am very early in but certainly has the overall feel of paradox games.  if others didn't grab you, not sure this will either.  for me i stunk at the other games but i am making a big commitment to finally figure them out:)

Quote from: Father Ted on April 25, 2019, 11:10:06 AM

Quote from: Anguille on April 22, 2019, 04:46:23 PM
Do you know how many provinces does Judea have in Imperator?

Hopefully at least the Judean Peoples' Front and the Peoples' Front of Judea

Deleted - Barthhart beat me to it

P.S. Long live the Popular Front  :)

Ha! Gaming balls.

Steam reviews aren't so hot.  That in and of itself isn't a big deal, but they do seem fairly well reasoned for Steam.

I think I'm going to have to sit and wait for more opinions of my fellow Grogs to roll in.

CK2 is probably my favorite game that I still don't know how to play; EUIV didn't really click with me for some reason.

Quote from: Toonces on April 25, 2019, 10:59:40 PM
Steam reviews aren't so hot.  That in and of itself isn't a big deal, but they do seem fairly well reasoned for Steam.

I think I'm going to have to sit and wait for more opinions of my fellow Grogs to roll in.

CK2 is probably my favorite game that I still don't know how to play; EUIV didn't really click with me for some reason.

Paradox gamers are a strange lot. They seem to complain a lot, yet still flock to every game and sink hundreds of hours into them. Every paradox game needs to mature. I don't think a single one has been outstanding out of the box, but the potential is always great. Look at the reviews for the other paradox titles. Stellaris, HOI 3 and 4, EUIV, etc. they range from mixed to mostly good and that's after years of maturation.

I haven't felt a "lack of character" with this one yet, like some are claiming, but I do have some frustrations with the UI. Certain pieces of information have been hard to find...but like everything else, games like this take time to learn, understand and appreciate.

So far, I'm enjoying what I've played.

i am puzzled by the comments as well about it not being interesting.  maybe because i am no expert in paradox games i am blind to it.  never expected it to be greatly different than last games but seems people had bigger ideas in their heads regardless if it was clear what it would be.  maybe the paradox formula is losing some of its charm for some people but i am sure in the end it will turn out like the other games and further built over time.

with this version i am going to do my best to finally learn this system, but if it doesn't work out i am not going to blame the game since it is what i expected anyway.

My own personal issues with the game are a combination of knowing what has already been done with previous Paradox games, coupled with my own personal reading into the era. Granted, most of my reading is about the 2nd Century BC and only on the Republic, but it means I found it hard to ignore the missed opportunities that could have really made these factions feel different to one another.

Like JH, I know this is an investment and that it will get better over time, but it also doesn't mean that Imperator is wholly immune to critique even at this early stage.

Call me a nerd, but Rome (and plenty other factions for that matter) shouldn't have standing armies at this point in history, and given that CK2 basically pioneered mechanics around raising levies/temporary armies, I personally feel it's a bit weird they didn't try to do something similar for Imperator's launch. If they bring it in later, fine, but it feels they've presented a fairly homogeneous picture of the the ancient world in order to provide an even playing experience everywhere which basically means nowhere has much character to it.

I can't help but feel even at this early stage, they probably could have done a bit better? I try to avoid criticism like that though because game development is hard and it's not like I could have done a better job myself. Devs get a lot of flack they don't deserve.

But agreed, I've had a good time with it. It's been immensely satisfying planning out my defensive fort network, and then connecting those forts with roads and then providing additional roads to other parts of the coutnry for rapid redeployment.

This is from one and the same real review on Steam :

Pro
Good learing curve

Con
You can learn the game in 1 hour


Also someone complained they didn't get a stable high FPS in game as if he was reviewing Counter Strike.


I watched a few videos on Twitch and Youtube before buying and I feel I got what I expected.

Quote from: WargamerJoe on April 26, 2019, 04:51:07 AM
My own personal issues with the game are a combination of knowing what has already been done with previous Paradox games, coupled with my own personal reading into the era. Granted, most of my reading is about the 2nd Century BC and only on the Republic, but it means I found it hard to ignore the missed opportunities that could have really made these factions feel different to one another.

Like JH, I know this is an investment and that it will get better over time, but it also doesn't mean that Imperator is wholly immune to critique even at this early stage.

Call me a nerd, but Rome (and plenty other factions for that matter) shouldn't have standing armies at this point in history, and given that CK2 basically pioneered mechanics around raising levies/temporary armies, I personally feel it's a bit weird they didn't try to do something similar for Imperator's launch. If they bring it in later, fine, but it feels they've presented a fairly homogeneous picture of the the ancient world in order to provide an even playing experience everywhere which basically means nowhere has much character to it.

I can't help but feel even at this early stage, they probably could have done a bit better? I try to avoid criticism like that though because game development is hard and it's not like I could have done a better job myself. Devs get a lot of flack they don't deserve.

But agreed, I've had a good time with it. It's been immensely satisfying planning out my defensive fort network, and then connecting those forts with roads and then providing additional roads to other parts of the coutnry for rapid redeployment.

Of course games can be criticized, especially when something is not correct.  Just seems the more vocal audience is coming across as "surprised" by what they got.....everyone should have known by now what was coming through all the pre advertising and that is just how paradox is....you either like it or you don't

One area I think is a complete waste and dumb is the tutorial.  If they seriously want to make this game more accessible and to even a larger audience, they must do better than a bunch of objective cards that you read and go do something.  Tell us why?  Tell us how? Tell us some strategy?  The one objective said to go sacrifice something in the religion screen and it wasn't readily listed as a big picture like other things...instead it was on a tiny button at the top.....took me 20 minutes to figure that out but they could have shown a picture indicating where to click.

It's funny, I really like the tutorial... but then I don't need it as a tutorial, because I've always been good at figuring things out. How well it works as an actual tutorial isn't something I'm in the best position to judge.

I think it was more the presentation and format itself that I liked - I'd liked to see that kind of check-list/objective set thing rolled out to the main game in some way. It's oddly comforting being able to just follow a list of things to do, instead of trying to internalise reasons for doing things. Again, that's just me though.

^I think the objective list is a great idea for a game like this and it could serve multiple purposes if done right. For instance, it would be a much more effective tutorial if there was more explanation behind each task. As it is presently, it does very little to actually teach the game beyond introducing the major UI areas and giving a very broad overview of some of the fundamentals.

More importantly, the objective list could be useful, on easier difficulty settings, to suggest key goals to the player for each empire, or at least the more significant ones. These grand strategy sandbox games are sometimes a turn off to players who have trouble knowing where to start and where to go, particularly when the historical goals of some of the more obscure or lessor well known factions are not as obvious. Such a list of suggested goals could address this issue and bring those players back into the fold.

Yep thats my point...tells you to do stuff but teaches you nothing useful for a game like this

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 26, 2019, 05:54:00 AM
More importantly, the objective list could be useful, on easier difficulty settings, to suggest key goals to the player for each empire, or at least the more significant ones. These grand strategy sandbox games are sometimes a turn off to players who have trouble knowing where to start and where to go, particularly when the historical goals of some of the more obscure or lessor well known factions are not as obvious. Such a list of suggested goals could address this issue and bring those players back into the fold.

Exactly this, well said.

[quote author=Grim.Reaper link=topic=22337.msg646214#msg646214 date=1556273202








One area I think is a complete waste and dumb is the tutorial.  If they seriously want to make this game more accessible and to even a larger audience, they must do better than a bunch of objective cards that you read and go do something.  Tell us why?  Tell us how? Tell us some strategy?  The one objective said to go sacrifice something in the religion screen and it wasn't readily listed as a big picture like other things...instead it was on a tiny button at the top.....took me 20 minutes to figure that out but they could have shown a picture indicating where to click.
[/quote]


're the tutorial I assume you know that by mousing over the objective buttons there is an explanation of "how" to achieve each one (this mechanic is explained on the first tutorial screen)

I get your point about the "pig sacrifice" button not being highlighted regarding the increase in stability ability and having the button flashing would certainly help. I realised where it was having watched some you tube let's plays prior to purchase.

It took me years to grasp the EU4 concepts and mechanics and only managed it a few months ago (and the marriage mechanics of CK2 still evade me!)  but I genuinely think the game design is very good and will only get better.

The decisions regarding troop composition and army stances in particular are far more involved and nuanced than previous games.

Re complaining about the games and then spending hundreds of hours on them anyway? -- also hundreds of dollars.  >:D On each one.

Re the standing armies: yep, I had the same reaction to seeing Samaria have a standing army of six thousand light infantry (1K per cohort, and I think I'm currently limited to six cohorts). What?! In freaking Samaria?!? If these were occupation troops from Phrygia I'd understand them, but I'm theoretically capable of adding to that army whenever I want, so they are my troops. As noted upthread, why would they drop game mechanics from CK2 reflective of periods before then? -- in this case, the prevalence of temporary armies and how that worked? Shouldn't those 6K troops be out farming or making bricks or something useful until I need them?

I'm kind of thinking of trying a livestream tonight, as I stumble around learning the mechanics.

I'll parrot the same thing I do with other games...how about a damn manual?

Johan just posted a road map:

Quote
Hey everyone,

With Imperator: Rome, a project very close to our hearts, now released and finally in the hands of our awesome community (that's you!), we have been taking the time to look at the feedback you've provided. As always, we pride ourselves on the continued support of our games and by no means will Imperator be different.

We are working towards releasing a 1.0.1 patch early next week, which we're calling 'Demetrius'. This patch will improve the AI, fix compatibility issues, game crashes, some multiplayer out-of-syncs, and will also contain some performance improvements.

At the same time, we have been looking at all the feedback from play-testing, our Twitch and YouTube communities, and the press for the past month and a half as we prepared for release. Now we are adding all of your feedback from Steam, the forums, and social media to that! With it, we have begun developing a major patch which is aimed for release in June.

This 1.1 patch is nicknamed 'Pompey' internally. We will go into more detail with upcoming development diaries before it's released. Pompey will cover the following topics:

Balancing of Technology Progress, Mercenaries, Shattered Retreat, Truce Breaking, Assassinations, Governors, War Exhaustion, and Legitimacy.
Improving the mechanics for Population Growth, Stability, and Barbarians.
Tweaks to Civil War mechanics, with new power-base mechanics.
Naval rework, with Naval Combat mechanics and multiple ship types, as well as navigable major rivers.
Deeper Holding mechanics for characters, where you can give characters holdings and they can purchase new ones as they grow in wealth.
More character interactions.
New Piracy mechanics.
Redesigning of functionality where instead of spending power for an instant result, you now spend power to nudge it towards that result over time.
Better abilities to play tall, including centralising trade, impacting specific cities, etc.
Tribes being able to decide what units their retinues should have.
Dual Ruler mechanics for Roman Republic, and Consorts for Monarchies.
Government Abilities for all government categories.
'Quality of Life' features like viewing all characters in a foreign country, new alerts, road building being a continuous action, and more.
Adding of features from previous PDS games like moving capitals and regnal numbers on monarchs
Much more modding support.

Whilst we have already started towards patch 1.1, we will continue to look at fixing any major issues that come up between now and then as well.

You nerds complete me.

Its really interesting how Paradox games evolve over time...sometimes, in fact, they turn into nearly an entirely different game. For instance, I recently got back into Stellaris after a long time away and I'm shocked by how different it is. Some of the core game mechanics from release and a few of the large early DLC packages seem to be entirely reworked, or simply non-existent and replaced. In some cases, this is for the better, yet in others, not so sure...

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 26, 2019, 08:45:25 AM
Its really interesting how Paradox games evolve over time...sometimes, in fact, they turn into nearly an entirely different game. For instance, I recently got back into Stellaris after a long time away and I'm shocked by how different it is. Some of the core game mechanics from release and a few of the large early DLC packages seem to be entirely reworked, or simply non-existent and replaced. In some cases, this is for the better, yet in others, not so sure...

Stellaris was the first of them to actually have had so drastic a change after release, I think. Before that, the next closest 'impactful' change could be Fuel in HoI 4 perhaps, or maybe how Forts worked in EU4.

But yeah, Stellaris pretty much went back to the drawing board on FTL options, how expansion works and about how planet/pops functioned. I'd be interested in hearing number or some kind of internal analysis as to whether this has been a positive thing, but now that the precedent has been set I can easily imagine Imperator under-going similar change. Hell, I WANT it in some cases to bring out more flavour, but even so there are a few things I can envision behaving differently than they are currently, hopefully for the better.

Had the wallet out until I read some reviews. This one seems legitimately respectable. Can anyone shoot down his points?
-------------------------

lamashtu
196 products in account
1 review

Not Recommended

2.0 hrs on record
POSTED: 25 APRIL

This is the first time I've ever written a game review in 35 years of gaming. This game suffers from a number of problems, beginning with the same lack of character that plagued Paradox's first Rome game. They somehow take one of my favorite periods of time, and make it un-enjoyable to me (did it with Sengoku as well). Neat trick I guess.

I've been playing Paradox games since EU2, and I broadly know what to expect, but combat continues to be fairly dull. It's not a deal breaker for me, but it would have been nice to see a bit more evolution by now.

The interface however is absolute trash. It's ugly, which isn't a huge problem. Much worse is the fact that information you need to make decisions during events is rarely available to you. Managing families and characters is difficult due to how information is presented, but also because as you click through from one element to another, you can't simply hit a button to return to an earlier element. For a game of such complexity, this is hopelessly broken. The presentation of trade goods via the trade goods map mode is unhelpful compared to what I remember from even EU2. In general, compared to prior games, I felt much more lost in the interface and its presentation of data. By contrast Vicky 1 was easier to work with, and that wasn't a particularly good interface.

Characters are richly detailed in terms of mechanics, but in terms of what we'd expect from CK2, there's not much going on. There's almost no feeling of agency when it comes to dealing with your current ruler or other characters. In fact that lack of a sense of agency permeates the entire game, driven by the incoherent user interface which obfuscates information you need.

The tutorial is almost insulting in how incomplete and how little it teaches you. I don't know that it was strictly necessary, but it was an immediate frustration and disappointment.

At the end of the day we're looking at a fiercely mediocre mix of prior Paradox games with a Late Antiquity skin thrown over them. I'm sure that if the setting is important enough to you, there's probably enough fun in here for you to enjoy it. Sadly, not for me.

I've been playing and loving Paradox games for a very long time now. I'm sad to say this game is the first by any developer that's ever moved me to request a refund. No, it's far from the absolute worst game I've ever purchased, but the combination of expectations not met, and ongoing concerns about Paradox's business practices just leave me cold. It's past time for me to say goodbye to Paradox probably, they're no longer a company I feel positive about, and this experience has finally made me recognize how I've felt about them for some time.

So this is just my personal take, of course, but here we we go:

QuoteThis is the first time I've ever written a game review in 35 years of gaming. This game suffers from a number of problems, beginning with the same lack of character that plagued Paradox's first Rome game. They somehow take one of my favorite periods of time, and make it un-enjoyable to me (did it with Sengoku as well). Neat trick I guess.

Would agree at this point in time. I never actually played EU: Rome (and I don't know enough about Japanese history to be able to comment about Sengoku, which I did play) but I've definitely felt that most factions in 1.0 feel a bit bland.

QuoteI've been playing Paradox games since EU2, and I broadly know what to expect, but combat continues to be fairly dull. It's not a deal breaker for me, but it would have been nice to see a bit more evolution by now.

Would disagree - it's more involved than EU4 or CK2, and has some really nice tactical and strategic flourishes that don't make me weary of fighting a war. Finding a reason to fight a war, on the other hand...

QuoteThe interface however is absolute trash. It's ugly, which isn't a huge problem. Much worse is the fact that information you need to make decisions during events is rarely available to you. Managing families and characters is difficult due to how information is presented, but also because as you click through from one element to another, you can't simply hit a button to return to an earlier element. For a game of such complexity, this is hopelessly broken. The presentation of trade goods via the trade goods map mode is unhelpful compared to what I remember from even EU2. In general, compared to prior games, I felt much more lost in the interface and its presentation of data. By contrast Vicky 1 was easier to work with, and that wasn't a particularly good interface.

No comment - To be honest, I suspect it is less than ideal in a lot of places, but I honestly didn't dwell on it too much. I've always been good at finding out what I need so I haven't specifically noticed anything UI related. Plenty of others have, though.

QuoteCharacters are richly detailed in terms of mechanics, but in terms of what we'd expect from CK2, there's not much going on. There's almost no feeling of agency when it comes to dealing with your current ruler or other characters. In fact that lack of a sense of agency permeates the entire game, driven by the incoherent user interface which obfuscates information you need.

Broadly Agree - I was never expecting the character mechanics to be on CK2's level though, not with Johan at the helm. I suspected this was more of a hook they were using to promote it. What's there could be interesting in its own way, but currently isn't I don't interact with characters in a meaningful way that often.

QuoteThe tutorial is almost insulting in how incomplete and how little it teaches you. I don't know that it was strictly necessary, but it was an immediate frustration and disappointment.

Disagree - but then as I've said above, I never used it as a tutorial. Personally I really like it but I suspect it's a Marmite thing - either you appreciate how it tries to teach you the game, or you don't. Maybe calling it a 'tutorial' was an era, but I think it's more instructive than the haters say it is.

QuoteAt the end of the day we're looking at a fiercely mediocre mix of prior Paradox games with a Late Antiquity skin thrown over them. I'm sure that if the setting is important enough to you, there's probably enough fun in here for you to enjoy it. Sadly, not for me.

I've been playing and loving Paradox games for a very long time now. I'm sad to say this game is the first by any developer that's ever moved me to request a refund. No, it's far from the absolute worst game I've ever purchased, but the combination of expectations not met, and ongoing concerns about Paradox's business practices just leave me cold. It's past time for me to say goodbye to Paradox probably, they're no longer a company I feel positive about, and this experience has finally made me recognize how I've felt about them for some time.

I mean, if he bought it a full price, then yeah, fair enough. You know this is going to get better over time so it's an investment, but you also know that it'll be going cheap around the time it finally 'gits gud' anyway so I could see people both buying it and sitting on it for later, or requesting  a refund/waiting for a year or so. I think he's personally being a bit fatalist at the end here but a lot of the old-timer PDX fans are really struggling with how the company has evolved in terms of design philosophy and post-release support.

I am going through the YT tutorials (I posted before) and find the game has deeper mechanics that you can't uncover in 2 hours (the time he spend on it before refunding).

Most other reviews are more positive (even IGN  ;D).

I think it is a bit unfair to review this game after a few hours, let alone after less than 2 hours (in that time I believe you can't finish the in game 'tutorial')

If you like Paradox games like CKII and EUIV you will probably like this one (and probably more after patching and DLC).
If you didn't like them this game will not change your mind.

Another somewhat surprising (to me) comparison with Vicky2, is that you can't choose a start time. This isn't a dealbreaker for me, at all, but it's still a little odd by comparison with the others.

Has anyone seen yet how far the game runs? I know there's a game-over date which can be disabled in various not-overly-obvious ways, but I don't know the date. (I infer it's in the Christian/Common Era, because I know there's code to switch overt the dating system at some point or to show both types of dates, Roman and Christian.)

I just don't see it as a mystery. If you liked EU IV and CK2, then you will most likely enjoy it. You know what paradox is and what the Clausewitz engine does. You know DLCs will add to the game and it will be better in a year than now...better in 2 years than in a year. I don't see how reading and analyzing reviews will get you the info you need b/c these games are SO deep and complex that each will get something different from it.

If you are looking for someone to convince you to buy it, or one to convince you not to...you can find that review. For every "this sucks...it's bland", I can find a "this is great...very deep" review.

Take a look at this guy's beginner guide vids. VERY informative. You get a good idea of what you are getting:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mIAUVx040as

Can't remember a game having such a bad start at release (speaking of reactions on steam)...Swords of the stars 2 maybe?  ???

I am almosted tempted to buy it to see how it works on my computer....

Quote from: Anguille on April 26, 2019, 03:38:52 PM
Can't remember a game having such a bad start at release (speaking of reactions on steam)...Swords of the stars 2 maybe?  ???

I am almosted tempted to buy it to see how it works on my computer....

Reviews on steam are "mixed"...that's hardly remarkable as far as a bad release. I'm hard pressed to compare this even remotely to the God awful state SOTS2 was in when it released.

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 26, 2019, 04:44:50 PM

Quote from: Anguille on April 26, 2019, 03:38:52 PM
Can't remember a game having such a bad start at release (speaking of reactions on steam)...Swords of the stars 2 maybe?  ???

I am almosted tempted to buy it to see how it works on my computer....

Reviews on steam are "mixed"...that's hardly remarkable as far as a bad release. I'm hard pressed to compare this even remotely to the God awful state SOTS2 was in when it released.

My comment is not about the state of the game but about the reactions. I don't think either that Imperator is in a state that a couple of patches won't make it run a lot better.

I think the reactions upon release of SOTS2 were hardly mixed. They were closer to overwhelmingly negative...although it might have been before the review system was implemented. I simply don't see a comparison in any vein.

I agree. Comparing SotS 2 reactions to this is a little off I think. The reviews for that were ripping the developer for releasing a game about 40% finished...literally. I would compare this to the release of hearts of iron 4, europa Universalis 4  and almost any other paradox game. Everyone screaming that it'll be good in a year but it's ———— now. Meanwhile, they all play and in 4 years when paradox releases Imperator 2, they will all be complaining that it should have been as good as Imperator 1

I'm still on the fence with this game, but I admit I've hardly have put any time into it.

I am getting a bad stutter every time the day rolls over and though I admit my old i7-920 at 4 GHz with GTX 970 is not anywhere near top hardware, I've read that a lot of people with both the latest hardware and with stuff older than mine are having the stutter as well. I tried CK2, EU IV and HOI IV again and there is almost no stutter compared to what this game is doing at least to me. The stutter is almost a show stopper for me.

Anyone else experiencing a very pronounced stutter as each day rolls over and especially when scrolling the map?

I played a bit tonight and honestly, I don't know what the complaints are about. I scaled the UI down so I could still read it and it's fine. I don't notice intrusiveness. As for the prior copied review on combat...short of HOI, I'm not sure what Paradox game has deeper combat. Varied (9) unit types, assigning generals and choosing from multiple battle tactics depending on your force. Different troop types excel at different tactics. Has the complex trade of Vicky, some of CK2 character management and EU IV style national and provincial governance. I don't get it....it's exactly as advertised

That was the first review I read on Steam, Iam C.

I think you guys have given a good idea of what the game is about..what to expect.  I'm inclined to buy it, but not right this moment.  I loved CK2, so I'm sure I'll eventually buy this game and enjoy it. 

Quote from: Toonces on April 26, 2019, 10:35:46 PM
That was the first review I read on Steam, Iam C.

I think you guys have given a good idea of what the game is about..what to expect.  I'm inclined to buy it, but not right this moment.  I loved CK2, so I'm sure I'll eventually buy this game and enjoy it.

Good move I think. Paradox games always get much better and "fleshed out" with age. Like previous paradox games, I like it at release and continue to for years...but if these aren't your thing, wait.

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 26, 2019, 05:44:32 PM
I think the reactions upon release of SOTS2 were hardly mixed. They were closer to overwhelmingly negative...although it might have been before the review system was implemented. I simply don't see a comparison in any vein.

Bad comparison then. Still, i am surprised how strong the reactions are. I hope the game will recover because i see a lot of potential.

Right now, can someone tell me what is really different to Europa Universalis: Rome?

This isn't a criticism of this game in particular, but one on the whole game industry in general:

If you enjoy a game at release and it works for you, that's great. I can't criticize the individual experiences that we all have which are different for everyone.

However, in my view, what I've seen in the past few years is a degrading of the customer experience. Despite the huge sales of games like this, HOI4 and CK2 there is a trend that's become standard business practice that doesn't inspire me and leaves me feeling a bit irritated. I don't enjoy ranting or criticizing games - I want to play them and have fun.

The games are released, not wholly incomplete, but somewhat lacking in depth that is then remedied by DLC; and I think this is deliberate. Snag our attention, make us commit to the purchasing cycle and then promise more. Always leave it short of 'the perfect  game' in a hope it will be complete one day. Promising that the game 'will be fixed' is a crap incentive to buy or follow. How about making the game whole at release and then creating DLC that will blow our minds with a 'wow' reaction?

The community of fans saying things will be great in a few years and roasting you on their forums when you raise an issue. I could be abducted by space aliens in a few years. I want a great game now.

No manual. No real tutorial. It takes dozens of hours of other people's time to create and publish videos of how to play the game. Do-it yourself manuals. So the game we get is a kind of mystery-strategy game, where we learn by pointing and clicking. Because of this culture, the company knows it doesn't have to spend resources on writing a proper manual or coding a proper tutorial. Lazy and crappy in my opinion.

I remember the times when a game *sometimes* got a 1.01 patch if it needed it and on release it worked great. You unlocked stuff in the game by gameplay and not paying for it and it was all included at launch.

'We have the resources to make a great game at launch with a tutorial, a manual, a demo and all possible features and content included. Then let's find out what the fans want and need and do it as DLC' appears to be an idealistic and old-fashioned view but, tell me, how is it good that it's progressed from that to the state we are in?

The easy solution? Wait a few years to get the game with all it's DLC and patches at a sale price, which is in fact what I have been doing for some but it's a long process and I could be abducted by space aliens in the meantime.


Sorry, it's Saturday morning, I'm waiting for my breakfast and I'm over 50.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GregariousChiefBirdofparadise-small.gif)

Quote from: Ian C on April 27, 2019, 05:22:32 AM
This isn't a criticism of this game in particular, but one on the whole game industry in general:

If you enjoy a game at release and it works for you, that's great. I can't criticize the individual experiences that we all have which are different for everyone.

However, in my view, what I've seen in the past few years is a degrading of the customer experience. Despite the huge sales of games like this, HOI4 and CK2 there is a trend that's become standard business practice that doesn't inspire me and leaves me feeling a bit irritated. I don't enjoy ranting or criticizing games - I want to play them and have fun.

The games are released, not wholly incomplete, but somewhat lacking in depth that is then remedied by DLC; and I think this is deliberate. Snag our attention, make us commit to the purchasing cycle and then promise more. Always leave it short of 'the perfect  game' in a hope it will be complete one day. Promising that the game 'will be fixed' is a crap incentive to buy or follow. How about making the game whole at release and then creating DLC that will blow our minds with a 'wow' reaction?

The community of fans saying things will be great in a few years and roasting you on their forums when you raise an issue. I could be abducted by space aliens in a few years. I want a great game now.

No manual. No real tutorial. It takes dozens of hours of other people's time to create and publish videos of how to play the game. Do-it yourself manuals. So the game we get is a kind of mystery-strategy game, where we learn by pointing and clicking. Because of this culture, the company knows it doesn't have to spend resources on writing a proper manual or coding a proper tutorial. Lazy and crappy in my opinion.

I remember the times when a game *sometimes* got a 1.01 patch if it needed it and on release it worked great. You unlocked stuff in the game by gameplay and not paying for it and it was all included at launch.

'We have the resources to make a great game at launch with a tutorial, a manual, a demo and all possible features and content included. Then let's find out what the fans want and need and do it as DLC' appears to be an idealistic and old-fashioned view but, tell me, how is it good that it's progressed from that to the state we are in?

The easy solution? Wait a few years to get the game with all it's DLC and patches at a sale price, which is in fact what I have been doing for some but it's a long process and I could be abducted by space aliens in the meantime.


Sorry, it's Saturday morning, I'm waiting for my breakfast and I'm over 50.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GregariousChiefBirdofparadise-small.gif)

Well stated IanC...that last part which I bolded is, with a few rare exceptions, exactly what I've done for years now.  Play now what I have in backlog and wait a couple of years to buy a $40 game with all the DLC (probably another $40) all for $10.

Quote from: Ian C on April 27, 2019, 05:22:32 AM
This isn't a criticism of this game in particular, but one on the whole game industry in general:

If you enjoy a game at release and it works for you, that's great. I can't criticize the individual experiences that we all have which are different for everyone.

However, in my view, what I've seen in the past few years is a degrading of the customer experience. Despite the huge sales of games like this, HOI4 and CK2 there is a trend that's become standard business practice that doesn't inspire me and leaves me feeling a bit irritated. I don't enjoy ranting or criticizing games - I want to play them and have fun.

The games are released, not wholly incomplete, but somewhat lacking in depth that is then remedied by DLC; and I think this is deliberate. Snag our attention, make us commit to the purchasing cycle and then promise more. Always leave it short of 'the perfect  game' in a hope it will be complete one day. Promising that the game 'will be fixed' is a crap incentive to buy or follow. How about making the game whole at release and then creating DLC that will blow our minds with a 'wow' reaction?

The community of fans saying things will be great in a few years and roasting you on their forums when you raise an issue. I could be abducted by space aliens in a few years. I want a great game now.

No manual. No real tutorial. It takes dozens of hours of other people's time to create and publish videos of how to play the game. Do-it yourself manuals. So the game we get is a kind of mystery-strategy game, where we learn by pointing and clicking. Because of this culture, the company knows it doesn't have to spend resources on writing a proper manual or coding a proper tutorial. Lazy and crappy in my opinion.

I remember the times when a game *sometimes* got a 1.01 patch if it needed it and on release it worked great. You unlocked stuff in the game by gameplay and not paying for it and it was all included at launch.

'We have the resources to make a great game at launch with a tutorial, a manual, a demo and all possible features and content included. Then let's find out what the fans want and need and do it as DLC' appears to be an idealistic and old-fashioned view but, tell me, how is it good that it's progressed from that to the state we are in?

The easy solution? Wait a few years to get the game with all it's DLC and patches at a sale price, which is in fact what I have been doing for some but it's a long process and I could be abducted by space aliens in the meantime.


Sorry, it's Saturday morning, I'm waiting for my breakfast and I'm over 50.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GregariousChiefBirdofparadise-small.gif)

Pros and cons to anything......personally, I have no problem with their approach.  Sometimes I think people confuse DLC and actual patches released by Paradox.  Yes, DLC has been introduced to enhance some of the factions and/or game concepts and to add some graphic improvements.  But most of the core improvements have been included in free patches that still continue to be released after (7) years of the game being out (CK2).  So you don't necessarily need to purchase the DLC especially if the area contained in the DLC does not even interest you.

Would the games continue to still receive this much support without DLC?  Probably not and personally I would prefer a game to continue being improved over time versus just being abandoned (take a look at many Matrix games where the developers just disappear).  If it is a good gaming experience, I much rather have incremental improvements through patches and DLC versus the game having to reinvent itself all the time or worse yet, simply go away.

People always say the games are incomplete and will only be complete once all DLC made available.  I don't agree with that.  What's the alternative?  Have the company take 7 years to build the perfect game with everything included and then release it?  Then charge $200?  No way would I ever want to see that.  Much rather get something basic and let it evolve over time.  Gives me time to learn things and start playing much earlier.  Probably the majority of the game players don't even use 20% of the game content so they likely are content.

I really don't get all the angst against Paradox recently and this release especially.  Absolutely no one should be surprised by what they are getting, this has been their formula for years.  Sure you might not like it, but this obviously is something that works for them.  People that don't like the system certainly has the right not to like it and not buy it...no problem.  But I just don't get the continued complaints and everyone always talking about the DLC.  Heck even Mius Front who continues to get high praises is rapidly throwing out DLC (up to around 11) and nobody is complaining about them?  Should they have included all the DLC content from the start?  Absolutely not.

Just my two cents....

Quote from: Rayfer on April 27, 2019, 05:29:58 AM

Well stated IanC...that last part which I bolded is, with a few rare exceptions, exactly what I've done for years now.  Play now what I have in backlog and wait a couple of years to buy a $40 game with all the DLC (probably another $40) all for $10.

But why does everyone need every piece of DLC to enjoy the game?  Does everyone honestly use every piece of the DLC when they play?

I am in the business where we develop and deliver software to customers.  Even in the business world companies have adopted an 'agile' approach to delivering products so that customers can receive the most critical features first in the earliest amount of time possible.  Then after that, incremental features are added......a product is never complete, just an evolution of capability.  Benefits of this is customer getting the things they most want and need more quickly and it also allows the developers to get feedback quicker from the customers to make further improvements....just like Paradox has done.

This is where most of the world is moving to (if not already), whether in business software or games.  Heck, even a lot of business software is moving to a subscription model which is similar to DLC where you continue to pay as you go.

Again, everyone is free to choose for themselves, but people saying DLC is horrible or companies are delivering incomplete products, I just don't buy it....certainly may not be want some people want, but I am guessing it satisfies the silent majority.

The overall claim seems to be essentially, "they release an incomplete game lacking depth and then eventually fix it with paiid DLCs..."

I don't believe this is the rule with Paradox games, or the intention in the least. I do not think there is any evidence of nefarious intent here at all. I think someone would be hard pressed to argue that games like Hearts of Iron or EUIV "lacked depth" when they were released. They were anything but incomplete games, and I don't think a serious argument can made that they were missing whole features or fundamental mechanics at release. Rather, with paradox, their games evolve over time based on tens of thousands of hours of play and extensive player feedback. This is inherent due to the fact that the games are so complex in so many different ways.

Overall, That a developer continues aggressively supporting its titles for damn near a decade should be applauded.

Quote from: JasonPratt on April 26, 2019, 12:42:15 PM
Has anyone seen yet how far the game runs? I know there's a game-over date which can be disabled in various not-overly-obvious ways, but I don't know the date. (I infer it's in the Christian/Common Era, because I know there's code to switch overt the dating system at some point or to show both types of dates, Roman and Christian.)

James Allen from Out-of-8 said it goes to 27BC

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 27, 2019, 06:18:37 AM
The overall claim seems to be essentially, "they release an incomplete game lacking depth and then eventually fix it with paiid DLCs..."

And then they buy FIFA 19 because it adds a facial animation that FIFA 18 didn't have  >:D

Most of the negative reviews feel like they review the history and track record of Paradox and not this game.

Also, don't forget that most or all of those paid DLC were accompanied with free updates/patches.

I think paradox has decided on the approach to make a game as vanilla as possible and then let the customers wishes and demands give direction to growth organically. 

Running a restaurant on this principle:

When you arrive there's no obvious plan or layout of the dining area. You get lost frequently but a previous customer has made a map, so you find a seat.
You order a Steak Dinner but get the steak done one way only -medium rare. If you want well-done or rare or extra-rare, you pay extra.

Then, you are told the fries are not available now, but will be out at later date as a paid extra but they throw in salt and pepper as a free update to the menu. There's bread & butter - and tell you that you should be happy. You say "well it's not really a steak dinner., not like I remember..."

People complain saying the fries should have been included in the basic dinner but fans of the restaurant disagree and say it's perfectly reasonable.

Then people complain there are no sauces available so they bring out a sauces DLC but the sauce is cheese, because the restaurant likes cheese sauces. People complain and say peppercorn is the most popular choice and is more like what a real steak dinner would have but the restaurant doesn't agree, because all the young kids don't like peppercorn sauce and cheese is what they are into because it's easier to taste. The older steak veterans just shrug and say "ok" and go along with it, because hell, they just want a steak dinner. So someone has to self-cook the peppercorn sauce (make a mod) and then offer it for free to everyone in the restaurant. After a while the restaurant sees how well it's going and then takes the work of the self-cooking person and offers it for sale themselves.

Despite all of this, people keep coming back to the restaurant because it's the only place that does steak dinners.
The smarter people wait until there's a special event where they can buy the finished steak dinner (after it took 5 years to get right) with all the trimmings, sauces and conditions (and even a dessert!), for 25% of the price.

Then the restaurant announces it's going to be putting 'Steak Dinner II' on the menu and the entire cycle gets repeated again. Except this time the restaurant has decided that eating on beanbags on the floor is cool and tables and chairs are a thing of the past. Until after many complaints and people being banned from the restaurant they bring them back in paid DLC 3 years later. But then change the knives and forks for chopsticks in an update.

If you are so against the model, why was it ever so close to being in your wallet besides one review stopping you?

^ummm, yeah. That's a bit of a stretch. But, whatever. Building a complicated simulation that balances the economy, trade, technology, research and warfare covering hundreds of years of human history is a little different than making a steak dinner.

It's not that I'm against the model (which I think is absurd), I'm just one of those people hungry for a steak dinner who has to take what's on offer.
I always take notice of coherent reviews. They might prevent me from buying a game if I agree with the points they make; and since companies no longer make demos (and 2 hours on STEAM is not long enough to evaluate the game) I must make a considered call whether to buy or not.

Like I said in my first post, this isn't a criticism of this game in particular, but one on the whole game industry in general.

I am confused.... you think it's absurd but your not against?

Quote from: jamus34 on April 27, 2019, 08:07:25 AM
I think paradox has decided on the approach to make a game as vanilla as possible and then let the customers wishes and demands give direction to growth organically.

To add to this - they do not give up on their games; at least most of the recent releases.

You look at the AAA developers (specifically EA) and they don't hit their week 1 sales numbers and it's instantly a dumpster fire; staff getting laid off and all support for said game yanked.

I'm sorry, but for all of their faults I'll gladly spend my money to support the Pdox model vs the EA one.

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on April 27, 2019, 10:36:45 AM
I am confused.... you think it's absurd but your not against?

Sure. I don't really have much choice do I? I have to buy games somewhere.

Quote from: Ian C on April 27, 2019, 12:31:58 PM

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on April 27, 2019, 10:36:45 AM
I am confused.... you think it's absurd but your not against?

Sure. I don't really have much choice do I? I have to buy games somewhere.

I guess....just thinking if I was so much against something I probably wouldn't entertain picking it up...but if I think back, I am sure I have picked up something along the way that I didn't completely agree with.

Opinion on the game:Arch Warhammer's take on the game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMcgrw6nWlc)

Quote from: mbar on April 27, 2019, 06:21:01 AM
James Allen from Out-of-8 said it goes to 27BC

Oh? Thanks! ...so, it's covering basically the same period as the most recent expansion for RTW2, starting from around the time of the barbarian sack of early Republican Rome (recovering before the Punic Wars kick off), and going up to within chipping distance of the Empire.

Quote from: WallysWorld on April 27, 2019, 03:20:07 PM
Opinion on the game:Arch Warhammer's take on the game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMcgrw6nWlc)

On reflection, I thought I was being unfairly grumpy earlier but that review is damning. It's worth watching to the end.

A rather mixed review/preview from iSorrow:



(Keeping in mind, he's a humor LPlayer, but he'll tend to give a serious opinion on a game if he thinks he ought to.)

Quote from: WallysWorld on April 27, 2019, 03:20:07 PM
Opinion on the game:Arch Warhammer's take on the game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMcgrw6nWlc)

I take absolutely no pleasure in saying that he validated every point that I made.  :(

Quote from: Anguille on April 27, 2019, 12:32:04 AM

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 26, 2019, 05:44:32 PM
I think the reactions upon release of SOTS2 were hardly mixed. They were closer to overwhelmingly negative...although it might have been before the review system was implemented. I simply don't see a comparison in any vein.

Bad comparison then. Still, i am surprised how strong the reactions are. I hope the game will recover because i see a lot of potential.

Right now, can someone tell me what is really different to Europa Universalis: Rome?

I loved Rome: Vae Victus (the expansion to EU: Rome). I would say that this game is as different from Rome EU as Europa Universalis IV is from EU II. It's far more complex, far deeper, updated graphics and everything. Entirely different game on the new upgraded engine. Rome was on the EU III/HOI III version I believe. Either way the new version is so much more complex in deep that I don't think you can really compare the two other than the general setting

I've been enjoying it. Not going to say more then that since the usual downer crowd around here will just piss and moan more about how its a bad game.

Quote from: Kushan on April 28, 2019, 09:01:52 PM
I've been enjoying it. Not going to say more then that since the usual downer crowd around here will just piss and moan more about how its a bad game.

Whisper it quietly....but ....so am I 😉

Playing a tough game as Epirus at the minute hampered hugely by having no access to iron (not initially horses....though that at least is resolved)....Macedon is a huge expanding presence I can do nothing about at the minute so having to try and play the long game.....

Quote from: mikeck on April 28, 2019, 04:16:17 PM
I loved Rome: Vae Victus (the expansion to EU: Rome). I would say that this game is as different from Rome EU as Europa Universalis IV is from EU II. It's far more complex, far deeper, updated graphics and everything. Entirely different game on the new upgraded engine. Rome was on the EU III/HOI III version I believe. Either way the new version is so much more complex in deep that I don't think you can really compare the two other than the general setting

Thanks for your opinion. As i like EU:Rome, i guess i will like this one as well...

Quote from: Anguille on April 29, 2019, 03:36:09 AM

Quote from: mikeck on April 28, 2019, 04:16:17 PM
I loved Rome: Vae Victus (the expansion to EU: Rome). I would say that this game is as different from Rome EU as Europa Universalis IV is from EU II. It's far more complex, far deeper, updated graphics and everything. Entirely different game on the new upgraded engine. Rome was on the EU III/HOI III version I believe. Either way the new version is so much more complex in deep that I don't think you can really compare the two other than the general setting

Thanks for your opinion. As i like EU:Rome, i guess i will like this one as well...

This shows the more complex features far better than most reviews I have seen.

Thanks... O0

Quote from: Kushan on April 28, 2019, 09:01:52 PM
I've been enjoying it. Not going to say more then that since the usual downer crowd around here will just piss and moan more about how its a bad game.

The guys here who are actually playing it all seem to be enjoying it. It's only the people who are searching out negative reviews to validate their opinions formed by reading other negative reviews who are complaining.

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 29, 2019, 05:29:09 AM

Quote from: Kushan on April 28, 2019, 09:01:52 PM
I've been enjoying it. Not going to say more then that since the usual downer crowd around here will just piss and moan more about how its a bad game.

The guys here who are actually playing it all seem to be enjoying it. It's only the people who are searching out negative reviews to validate their opinions formed by reading other negative reviews who are complaining.

Woah, I'm not a downer. I want to buy the game and have fun. Really want to buy it. It looks gorgeous and I like historical games - especially Rome.

As I said previously, I took absolutely no pleasure in seeing a review support my own thoughts about things.
I've not pissed over anyone, because as I clearly stated in a post:

QuoteThis isn't a criticism of this game in particular, but one on the whole game industry in general:

If you enjoy a game at release and it works for you, that's great. I can't criticize the individual experiences that we all have which are different for everyone.

I see reviews which are currently persuading me not to buy the game and people have an issue with that? Why should that affect people who are already enjoying the game?

Guys...I already said if you are enjoying it - great for you. I don't begrudge you your fun. So don't begrudge me not wanting to buy it yet.

I'm not begrudging you, bro...just busting your balls. Wait for it to go on sale if you can. No big deal.

Quote from: Ian C on April 27, 2019, 04:28:40 PM

Quote from: WallysWorld on April 27, 2019, 03:20:07 PM
Opinion on the game:Arch Warhammer's take on the game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMcgrw6nWlc)

On reflection, I thought I was being unfairly grumpy earlier but that review is damning. It's worth watching to the end.

I saw that review as well.  I like Arch and trust his judgement even when he gets overly excited about his opinion. 

Emnel (another guy I really like and trust) on the other hand has given some really great 'how to play' videos on Imperator. 

My take is to wait 'till Imperator is in the under 10 bargain bin.  By then it should be all patched up and quite nice.

What little I've played so far, I've also enjoyed, though that might be due to having played it so little yet! -- I expected to get more done over the weekend, but in hindsight I don't think I touched it.

Does this game still have ping pong / whack-a-mole battles? One of my least favorite aspects of previous Paradox games was chasing defeated enemy armies back and forth over multiple regions. The enemy armies were often resilient down to just a handful of men.

While there are historical examples of armies chasing their defeated enemies down, there are also examples of whole armies shattering after one or two defeats. But regardless of the historical modeling, chasing a defeated enemy army down and fighting battle after battle, just is not very fun. 

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 29, 2019, 06:36:48 AM
I'm not begrudging you, bro...just busting your balls. Wait for it to go on sale if you can. No big deal.

I understand. I guess I read it in a certain light. The cat shit in my slipper this morning and I wasn't pleased.

^Wow. You must have done something to really piss it off...maybe he is a big Paradox fan?  :crazy2:

(https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/aBx0Bn2_700b.jpg)

Alternately, the cat did it for the evlulz.... OMG THAT KNIT HELMET IS THE CUTEST THING!!!  :smitten:

So far I am a little disappointed with this game. It pretty much is just a reskinning of EU IV with some non interesting mechanics thrown in(Trade micromanagement, and families). The main challenge I have found in learning the game so far, is just figuring out what the EUIV mechanic is re-skinned as. Moving armies and navies is exactly the same, and the enemy AI seems to perform adequately. Micromanagement of trade deals is monotonous, and gets boring real quick. The number of government officials and families is way too large for you to really care about any of them. You pretty much just start placing people in positions based on their stats, and replace them when prompted. Upgrading cities also becomes quite monotonous as you wait till you get enough gold, then go through your provinces one by one trying to figure out who needs building upgrades. Another problem is the number of city/provinces is getting ridiculous. Some times, less is more. This game should cut or merge the number of city/provinces in half. Especially since you have to do all the upgrades for them. Was hoping that battle detail, and battle options, would be given a major upgrade, but once again it is the same exact thing as EUIV , with less troop, and ship types. Not really getting much "Ancient" flavor either from this game. Lots of little nit-picky stuff (like ports not showing they are blockaded) need addressed as well. So to be honest, I just cant recommend this game in it's current form. EUIV with all it's expansions is much more fleshed out (Paradoxs expansion policy is a whole other discussion). Rome just adds lots of provinces and micromanagement, that is really not all that interesting. It can be fun when moving your armies around, and conquering your neighbors. But that was already done in EUIV. My recommendation is to hold off on purchasing, and get this game, and any expansions at a discount in the future.

Cute cat hat.  :)

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 29, 2019, 09:59:27 AM
^Wow. You must have done something to really piss it off...maybe he is a big Paradox fan?  :crazy2:

(https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/aBx0Bn2_700b.jpg)

https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/imperator-rome-pc/

For the next 20 hours 20% off with VIP access (just need to be registered).

around 32€ or $31

I'm loving it. As far as it being a re-skinned EU IV...I just disagree. The trade mechanic is from Vicky 2 and far more complex than EU. And the military stuff where you set tactics for your forces based on composition and enemy forces isn't EU IV. I mean, it's ALL the same engine so in that way, EU IV is a re-skinned EU III.

But the trade, military stuff, and the character management is NOT EU. It's a mix of EU, CK and Vicky.

But, as I said before, if you don't like EU IV, I don't see you liking this one as the pacing and such is similar

Rimmy, usually a humorous game player, takes time off from joking around to give his opinion that the 'mana' system defeats the strategic design of the game.



(There's still some humor on occasion.)

Quote from: mikeck on April 29, 2019, 06:15:32 PM
I'm loving it. As far as it being a re-skinned EU IV...I just disagree. The trade mechanic is from Vicky 2 and far more complex than EU. And the military stuff where you set tactics for your forces based on composition and enemy forces isn't EU IV. I mean, it's ALL the same engine so in that way, EU IV is a re-skinned EU III.

But the trade, military stuff, and the character management is NOT EU. It's a mix of EU, CK and Vicky.

But, as I said before, if you don't like EU IV, I don't see you liking this one as the pacing and such is similar

I love EUIV, this not so much. Trade is literally micromanaging what bonuses you get based on what item you want to import. It's not complex, it's just tedious. To make matters worse, you have to go back and choose imports over and over again as other countries are conquered, or whatever makes them cancel the trade agreement.  Not all that fun. Tactics are pretty much based on what units you have in your Army, so you pretty much just set it, and forget it.  The families and characters is what really separates this from EUIV and as I said before that just falls very flat . Too many families and characters to really care about any of them.  Select the ones with the highest mix of loyalty and rating and that is about it. 

I'm sure anyone who has played EU or it's ilk knows this, but for others: keep in mind that you unlock many options as you advance in your various "tech" fields. This is particularly true with buildings and such I believe. So an initial play through may seem like there isn't much to do but eventually, things open up.

On another note, I took over a neighboring minor power. I had the options of killing, improsoning or banishing their noble families (among other options). I chose to adopt two of the families into my empire due to some pretty decent characters. Crucified the rest...obviously. Also tried to convince an enemy general to come to my side but I don't think his loyalty was quite low enough. I'm interers to see if he brings the army with him or just loyal units

That brings up another feature. As a general stays in command over time, certain units in the army will become loyal to him. Normally, that just means they can't be removed from the stack while he commands it; BUT, if his loyalty goes....or he gets a better offer from another empire, he can revolt and all those loyal units stay with him. So rotate leaders folks...don't be a Roman Consul and let your general conquer and reward units with wealth so they become loyal to him!

See!....there's cool stuff in there

Quote from: mikeck on May 01, 2019, 12:58:29 AM
I'm sure anyone who has played EU or it's ilk knows this, but for others: keep in mind that you unlock many options as you advance in your various "tech" fields. This is particularly true with buildings and such I believe. So an initial play through may seem like there isn't much to do but eventually, things open up.

On another note, I took over a neighboring minor power. I had the options of killing, improsoning or banishing their noble families (among other options). I chose to adopt two of the families into my empire due to some pretty decent characters. Crucified the rest...obviously. Also tried to convince an enemy general to come to my side but I don't think his loyalty was quite low enough. I'm interers to see if he brings the army with him or just loyal units

That brings up another feature. As a general stays in command over time, certain units in the army will become loyal to him. Normally, that just means they can't be removed from the stack while he commands it; BUT, if his loyalty goes....or he gets a better offer from another empire, he can revolt and all those loyal units stay with him. So rotate leaders folks...don't be a Roman Consul and let your general conquer and reward units with wealth so they become loyal to him!

See!....there's cool stuff in there

I agree fully Mike.

I am having a great playground as Epirus at the minute (Macedon stomped me first attempt) and my defensive league has knocked out one of Macedon's allies this game and in a very tight battle Pyrrhus's own army managed to repulse superior invading Macedonian armies in the mountains passes Easy of the capital.

My Boetian allies intervened helpfully in the Macedonians rear and they are now in some difficulty and having to felt on mercenaries.....

It will only improve with patches.

Happy days.

We have to hope they won't give up on Imperator like they did with EU:Rome...i wish they would have released the Alexander Addon they were working on after Vae Victis....

EU:R:Vae Victus didn't have the ginormous profit potential of 5 years of DLC incoming.  >:D

I don't resent that, except with the expansions break the game. But I think we're past the time of Vicky2 getting a few extra DLC starts and contents and then moving on.

Quote from: JasonPratt on April 29, 2019, 06:46:02 PM
Rimmy, usually a humorous game player, takes time off from joking around to give his opinion that the 'mana' system defeats the strategic design of the game.

(There's still some humor on occasion.)

That's actually a great review and kind of echoes what ArchWarhammer was ranting about but in a more civilized manner.  Thanks for sharing!

Quote from: mikeck on May 01, 2019, 12:58:29 AM
I'm sure anyone who has played EU or it's ilk knows this, but for others: keep in mind that you unlock many options as you advance in your various "tech" fields. This is particularly true with buildings and such I believe. So an initial play through may seem like there isn't much to do but eventually, things open up.

On another note, I took over a neighboring minor power. I had the options of killing, improsoning or banishing their noble families (among other options). I chose to adopt two of the families into my empire due to some pretty decent characters. Crucified the rest...obviously. Also tried to convince an enemy general to come to my side but I don't think his loyalty was quite low enough. I'm interers to see if he brings the army with him or just loyal units

That brings up another feature. As a general stays in command over time, certain units in the army will become loyal to him. Normally, that just means they can't be removed from the stack while he commands it; BUT, if his loyalty goes....or he gets a better offer from another empire, he can revolt and all those loyal units stay with him. So rotate leaders folks...don't be a Roman Consul and let your general conquer and reward units with wealth so they become loyal to him!

See!....there's cool stuff in there

The loyalty of leaders hardly fluctuates. If you place a leader with good loyalty in charge of the Army to begin with, you rarely will have any problems. The one time I did have a general whose loyalty was getting low, I just held some party in his honor, which shot the loyalty back up into the 80s.

As far as what to do with noble families, I just kill them all. Fact is I have like 30 plus families already, with so many damn people that it's not even worth keeping track of them all. Plus their are only so many jobs to go around, so you really don't need them.  Maybe if an empire gets EXTREMELY large you might need to start adding families??

I keep having to grant citizenship to families from countries I've annexed, as my current family stock just keeps running thin.

I like the mechanic, but there's not much too it right now.

(Was playing Rome)

Quote from: JasonPratt on May 01, 2019, 08:28:46 AM
EU:R:Vae Victus didn't have the ginormous profit potential of 5 years of DLC incoming.  >:D

I don't resent that, except with the expansions break the game. But I think we're past the time of Vicky2 getting a few extra DLC starts and contents and then moving on.

Yes. But they are going to do this only if the game sells well and i am not sure right now if it will recover enough.

Quote from: bboyer66 on May 01, 2019, 09:13:13 AM

Quote from: mikeck on May 01, 2019, 12:58:29 AM
I'm sure anyone who has played EU or it's ilk knows this, but for others: keep in mind that you unlock many options as you advance in your various "tech" fields. This is particularly true with buildings and such I believe. So an initial play through may seem like there isn't much to do but eventually, things open up.

On another note, I took over a neighboring minor power. I had the options of killing, improsoning or banishing their noble families (among other options). I chose to adopt two of the families into my empire due to some pretty decent characters. Crucified the rest...obviously. Also tried to convince an enemy general to come to my side but I don't think his loyalty was quite low enough. I'm interers to see if he brings the army with him or just loyal units

That brings up another feature. As a general stays in command over time, certain units in the army will become loyal to him. Normally, that just means they can't be removed from the stack while he commands it; BUT, if his loyalty goes....or he gets a better offer from another empire, he can revolt and all those loyal units stay with him. So rotate leaders folks...don't be a Roman Consul and let your general conquer and reward units with wealth so they become loyal to him!

See!....there's cool stuff in there

The loyalty of leaders hardly fluctuates. If you place a leader with good loyalty in charge of the Army to begin with, you rarely will have any problems. The one time I did have a general whose loyalty was getting low, I just held some party in his honor, which shot the loyalty back up into the 80s.

As far as what to do with noble families, I just kill them all. Fact is I have like 30 plus families already, with so many damn people that it's not even worth keeping track of them all. Plus their are only so many jobs to go around, so you really don't need them.  Maybe if an empire gets EXTREMELY large you might need to start adding families??

I decided to adopt the families for role playing...not really out of need. My general? Well, apparently the family was pissed because they dont get enough money and aren't important enough. Then there was an event and his loyalty dropped...a lot. He had abouy 7 units loyal to him. I chose the option to have the state buyout the veterans and then s***-canned him

I WAS incorrect about buildings....there are only 4 which is indeed disappointing. I'm enjoying it but I can see how in 2 years and 3 DLCs, I'll be wondering how the hell I played it before. I don't find it to be barebones...but maybe a bit malnourished

Oddly enough, I'm finding the various building types build themselves without me needing to worry about it (other than forts).

Like, all I do is plonk down Forts where I want them, but sometimes I will mouse over a city and find it's got some of the other buildings built (which wasn't me, because I tend to ignore the buildings atm).

Quote from: WargamerJoe on May 02, 2019, 03:52:32 AM
Oddly enough, I'm finding the various building types build themselves without me needing to worry about it (other than forts).

Like, all I do is plonk down Forts where I want them, but sometimes I will mouse over a city and find it's got some of the other buildings built (which wasn't me, because I tend to ignore the buildings atm).

Hotfix just landed stopping the automatic building of forts (you still get a free Level 1 fort in your capitol)

The stuttering issue that affected quite a lot of people appears also to be sorted.

Note any Iron man saves are NOT compatible with the patch.

Johan's take on state of things.....

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/imperator-sunday-morning-design-corner-may-5th-2019.1174494/

Hello!

It is been a rocky launch in some aspects, with part of the community unhappy. While it is not Hoi3, there are still issues, and I want to make sure you understand that we are looking at them.

Technical Issues
It looks like we have addressed most of the incompatibility issues, and that the game had heavy stuttering on some machines. It is something we will continue to fix immediately as they prop up.

Barebones Games
This is the feedback that I just do not understand. I took everything we had in Rome I, and made every mechanic deeper and more complex, while adding lots more new mechanics to make it into a game. This game was developed the same way we did EU4 and HOI2, the previous games I've been most satisfied with, where we used all the original gameplay code of the previous game, and just built upon that.

I've not cut away anything when making Imperator to add into future expansions, and every game-mechanic, and lots more, we had planned was in the original 1.0.

I have said before launch that this is the best game I've made, and I stand by it still. 1.0 of Imperator is the best 1.0 we have ever made of a game.

Missing UI / Bad UX
I agree that there are things in the UI that is suboptimal. Some screens are bigger than they could be, like the province interface, and some do not have all the information you may need. We are all working on improving that. Some UI I deemed as optional as we ran lower on time, and I wanted to prioritise the gameplay experience, so those will come in patches.
Multiplayer Chat will eventually come, but not in 1.1
Ledger, I regret cutting it, but there will be a first version in 1.1
Macrobuilding functionality: While we hadn't planned diplomatic or army template macrobuilder for 1.0, we should have focused on having better interface for impact of what you are building.
Colonisation & Pop Management. It is functional, but not optimal. We definitely need to improve here.

Bad AI
Ironically, this is the game we spent the most resources in writing AI for, both in time and people. Instead of a basically reactive AI, that had no goal, and reusing old mechanics, we decided to write this AI as a new proactive system working with plans.

I understand that effort and intent is not the same as result, but AI was something we did focus a lot on.

Power / Abstracted Currencies
I understand that there is a part of the community that dislike abstracted currencies like prestige, monarch power, influence or political power, they do make it into games that are possible to balance and

In 1.1, with us adding stability, war exhaustion, aggressive expansion and tyranny to the price structure, you could make a really good mod, replacing all power costs with impacts on those attributes. Such a mod could also completely make the instant culture conversion of a pop cost tyranny instead, making it something you do not want to do in bulk, or you could make changing an idea cost 5 stability, which is not much in direct cost, but limits you in other ways.

The base game will continue to use these currencies, as they make for a better game, but I acknowledge that there is a group of people who dislike them, and prefer another experience, so we will improve the game, to be able to support it.

Lack of Flavor
There has been a lot of feedback of the game about how most countries just feel the same to play, and there are no variations. While most people appreciate that there is enough difference between settled tribes, migratory tribes, monarchies and republics, there is not much difference between the different tribes other than their starting location.

While we did not view this is a flaw, we hear you, and will add some distinct flavor to 1.1, some new to our games, and some familiar.

First of all, we are adding bonuses to each religion, so that different religions have different impacts. That in itself does not make the game suddenly great, but it gives a bit more flavor.

Secondly, we are diversifying Omens, so that different religions, or even different countries can have unique omens for them. We will go into more details on this soon.

Finally, we are adding something we call Heritages to countries. This is something they start with, which gives 2 bonuses and 1 drawback. There will be lots of "generic" heritages for countries, which depends on their geography, but we aim to add as many unique ones as possible in 1.1, and then keep adding them.

Percieved Shallowness
A lot of the things that happens has not been visible enough to the player, like you don't see the things characters do with each other. This will be changed for 1.1, where you will be able to always see what a character is up to, besides just an ambition.

Another thing is that the game has been tuned so a lot of the mechanics is not required to think about, especially when you are a big power. I've seen a lot of comments about how great the game is when you play smaller, compared to Rome where you just rofl-stomp everything, and don't have to care about any challenges. One thing we are reworking in 1.1, is how a characters "power base" is calculated, which is the amount of troops, holdings, wealth or territory he or she may hold, and that power base will have much more impact.


Content
It is hard to compare content between various games, but Imperator shipped with the same amount of events as Victoria 2 with expansions, and more than any game had at release besides CK2.

We also had more character interactions than CK2 at release, and a similar amount of diplomatic actions and relations as EU4 had at release.

Of course, when you have been playing games that have 5-10k of events,dozens upon dozens of unique systems, any new game, no matter how much content they have, will feel light.

We will continue to add more content at each update, with a nice chunk on focus on Italy in 1.1, but it will take years of expansions and patches until Imperator reaches

Cheers everyone, and tomorrow Trin Tragula will show off what we have been doing for 1.1.

/Johan

I love the game a lot. I just wish some of the "we are adding" was "we did add" in 1.0 since they seem to be things common in previous Paradox Clausewitz games

A half dozen hours in...I am enjoying the game so far.

I think it has to be sipped slowly, not gulped.

I like it too...the only surprising thing I learned from Johan is they basically built it based on the first Rome...which is OK, but I would have thought they would have also incorporated some of the learning from the other games too.

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on May 05, 2019, 12:35:29 PM
I like it too...the only surprising thing I learned from Johan is they basically built it based on the first Rome...which is OK, but I would have thought they would have also incorporated some of the learning from the other games too.

I still feel there are many differences. I've been playing EU:Rome for the last two weeks. There's isn't so much mana things in the game for example and you can build more than 4 buildings in a province. Of course, they have added a lot of other things in the new game.

Wow : right now only 40% positive reviews on Steam and still going down  :hide:  :pullhair:.

The game isn't perfect but the Paradox hate is strong there !

I've been distracted on other things, but I sure don't hate the game. I consider it on par with Vicky2's initial release.

Quote from: Pete Dero on May 07, 2019, 07:06:12 AM
Wow : right now only 40% positive reviews on Steam and still going down  :hide:  :pullhair:.

The game isn't perfect but the Paradox hate is strong there !

Between the people burned out on the Pdox DLC-fests and those who think the core game didn't bring enough features compared to their other recent games, I'm not too surprised.

Hell, this is the Pdox game I wanted to see redone & vastly improved.  Thus far, it resembles the previous one a bit too much in that it's still using the comparatively shallow concepts of the original EU Rome.  They need to expand it quite a bit, from what I've seen of the gameplay.  Which, I expect, they will do with the aforementioned flurry of DLC. 

I'm gonna wait until they fill out the gameplay some more.  Haven't been doing much digital gaming lately, anyway, so I can wait on the first DLC and reevaluate.  Kinda sad that I have to wait further.

^Hadn't seen you for awhile...everything ok?

Quote from: Pete Dero on May 07, 2019, 07:06:12 AM
Wow : right now only 40% positive reviews on Steam and still going down  :hide:  :pullhair:.

The game isn't perfect but the Paradox hate is strong there !

:DD

Good.  Good.  I can feel the hatred flowing within the Steam community. 

(https://memegenerator.net/img/images/300x300/11042576.jpg)

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on May 07, 2019, 09:49:35 AM
^Hadn't seen you for awhile...everything ok?

Yeah, been rather busy.

The bodies are now hidden.   <:-)

I checked the reviews at GoG.com and the hate is there too.

Tiny patch coming tomorrow:)  Wouldn't even allow me to post the patch contents log here because it exceeded 20,000 characters:)  Will be interesting to see the improvements.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/imperator-cicero-release-information.1249045/

Quote###################

# New Features

###################


- You can now disband loyal cohorts, for double the cost, but those loyal cohorts will turn into "veteran cohorts" for that character that impact their powerbase, and will be raised as experienced cohorts if that character revolts.

- Pops now no longer instantly promote or demote to another type, assimilate their culture or convert their religion. All of these changes will now instead happen over time due to a combination of factors that you can speed up through government policies and other actions. An overview for current changes underway in a city can be opened from the city interface.

- Pops now migrate over time to neighboring cities, cities in the same province, or between provinces with a port in your empire. Manual movement of pops is now only possible for Slaves and Tribesmen (if you are a Tribe).

- Monarch power has been removed as a concept. Instead mechanics have been changed to happen over time, use other currencies or opportunity cost. A new currency, Political Influence, is now generated by loyal members of your Government over time. Political Influence will be used to perform actions directly relating to your country's government such as selecting National Ideas or implementing Laws.

- Reworked Experience. Unit Experience no longer decays from losses in combat but instead decays over time. All armies now have access to the Drill ability which will increase their cost and loyalty gain chance while allowing them to build up experience.

- Reworked Military Traditions. Military traditions are now acquired using Military Experience, a countrywide value that measures the degree of Military Experience your country has built up. Military Experience increases from your average cohort experience and War Exhaustion, where reliance on mercenaries reduce the speed it accumulates by.

- Split cities into Cities, Settlements and Metropolises, collectively known as territories. Only Cities and Metropolises are now represented by 3D buildings on the map.

- Settlement is the basic owned territorial unit. A settlement has lower population cap than a city and can only have one building. Settlement buildings are different from those available in cities and focus more on production and output. In a settlement the population will trend towards being slaves or tribesmen (if owned by a tribe).

- A city can be founded in a settlement for a cost of Gold and Political Influence. A city can have multiple buildings and will have a higher population cap than a settlement. In cities more slaves are required to produce surplus goods, and over time pops will be more likely to become Citizens or Freemen.

- A Metropolis can be upgraded from a provincial capital city with high population. City buildings are still available but it will have a higher migration attraction, and more building slots than a city.

- A City or Metropolis can be turned back into a settlement for a cost of Tyranny, this costs less Tyranny for Tribes.

- Added 11 new building types, to create more depth to develop your cities,

- Added 5 new buildings for Settlements.

- Fabricating claims is no longer instant, instead it is done over time.

- A new character interaction to bestow a regional nickname on governors has been added.

- A new character interaction to impose corruption sanctions on a character has been added, reducing their corruption at a cost of loyalty and tyranny.

- Food is now produced in all owned territories, the amount is dependent on the local terrain. Food is consumed by Pops and Military units that would otherwise take attrition. Any surplus food is stored in the Province. A large food store will increase population growth and local defensiveness. A depleted food storage results in starvation and lowered defensiveness.

- Surplus Trade Goods can now also generate food, these can be imported to feed big cities.

- Added a new governor policy: Harsh Treatment, reducing migration attraction and population output, in return for higher provincial loyalty.

- Added a version of the War Council government interaction for Republics.

- Added a Curiate Assembly government interaction for Republics.

- All Republic Laws reworked, with certain categories unlock from tech.

- All Monarchy Laws reworked, with certain categories unlock from tech.

- All Tribal Laws reworked, unlocked by certain Centralization thresholds.

Quote###################

# Gamebalance

###################


# Economy

- Each Holding now gives a boost to commerce income in the city in which they are situated.

- Economic Policy for Wages now only affect those characters that are getting wages.

- Economic Policy for Wages reduced to 0.05 loyalty when increased, down from 0.1.

- Building cost inventions previously targeting specific buildings are converted to -0.05 build_cost, with the exception of Granaries

- All traits yielding build_cost are now -0.05 build_cost from -0.1

- Aqueducts now require civ of 30.

- Mercantile Diplomatic Stance now reduces Trade Route creation cost by 40% instead of 25%.

- Reduced price of province investments.

- Increased effect of Military Province investment.

- Removed the free Capital Trade Route for all countries, instead the mid setting for Trade taxation will now provide 1 extra capital Trade Route.

- Increased effect of Military Province investment.

- Reduced price of province investments.


# Governments

- The higher Government ranks now increases Political Influence gain.

- Ruler Martial now increases Manpower Recovery Speed & Army Morale Recovery.

- Ruler Finesse now increases National Commerce Income & reduce Build Cost.

- Ruler Charisma now increases Tyranny Reduction and Claim Fabrication Speed.

- Ruler Zeal now increases Monthly Stability Growth and War Exhaustion Reduction.

- Disloyal Characters are less likely to be elected in a Republic, as the Senate is less likely to trust them.

- Standardized Construction idea reduced to -0.2 build cost and speed from -0.3

- Consort or Co-Ruler will now use their finesse instead of rulers for governor policies, if higher.

- Populists no longer block PI gain, but instead has a -33% modifier to its gain.

- Finesse impact on governors reduced from 5% to 2.5%.

- All laws affecting pop ratios now only affect Cities and Metropolises

- Last 2 tribal laws in the Centralization path now grant 5 Civilization capacity instead of poptype happiness

- Laws now only reduce stability by 15 when changed.


# Characters

- Popularity from Naval Combat is now 10% of before.

- Tweaked down popularity gain from combat further.

- Families now keep track of how many children they have in total.

- Courtsize limit lowered to 120

- Foreign characters will now have less children.

- Families with less than 4 current children will now be allowed more children.

- Commanders now earn more gold and popularity from taking cities.

- Frequency of disloyalty schemes has been increased

- Magnitude of disloyalty schemes has been increased

- A country will never assume to have less than 5 holdings when calculating powerbase from holdings.

- A disloyal character will no longer get wages from the government.

- Ruler Popularity now impacts clan chief loyalty in tribes.

- The Ruler of a Tribe will no longer make or keep retinues.

- High Wages economic policy now increases loyalty by 0.05 per month (down from 0.1) and the loyalty is only applied to characters gaining a wage.

- Characters with prominence will now lose all prominence on leaving the country, with the exception of olympic competitors.

- Popularity of characters moving country is halved.

- Cautious Personality now gives better morale recovery and reinforcement times on commanded units.


# Units

- Popularity from naval combat is no longer 1% of what it should be.

- Cohorts loyal to a rebel commander, but not in their current army will be disbanded at the start of a civil war, and turned into veteran cohorts for that commander.

- You can now move regular cohorts loyal to a character to another unit. (merge, split, transfer, detach..)

- You can now assign units to the capital region.

- Morale from Military Experience reduced by 10x

- Migrant units no longer have any maintenance costs.

- Price of Chariots reduced from 8 to 6.

- Heavy Cavalry now does more damage to light cavalry and camels.

- Heavy Cavalry price reduced from 15 to 10, but build time has increased from 60 to 120.

- Archers now have +10% versus Heavy Infantry.

- Increased Price of Light Cavalry from 6 to 7.

- Reduced Mercenary Maintenance from +300% to +25%.

- Latin Traditions are now slightly weaker in their Light Infantry Bonuses.

- Boosted some of the Barbarian Traditions for Light Infantry and Chariots.

- Increased Siege impact on experience by x10.

- Horse Archers now take extra Morale Damage.

- Building roads now reduce movement by 75% instead of 90%.

- Mega Polyremes and Octeres no longer take less strength damage.

- Greatly increased experience gain from combat.

- Tweaked naval combat strength damage to be notably more significant.


# War & Peace

- Powerbase for Subject Loyalty is based around loyal cohorts, not total population compared.

- It is no longer possible to demand gold as part of a peace treaty.

- Experience from combat increased by 10X

- Fabricate Claims now costs 20 Political Influence

- A migrant horde without provinces at peace can declare a war even if at low stability.

- Pirate Raids slightly less frequent.

- Increased the war score from battles significantly, as well as the maximum warscore from battles.

- Liberated nations now get a truce from their former occupier.

- Added beneficial loyalty modifier after civil wars end.

- Pillage now grants treasury based on unit eight and location population.


# Technology

- Invention costs are now based on cost of X gold per pop in your country.

- Inventions no longer improve research speed.

- "Prestigious Trade Goods" invention now increases export value instead of lowering Trade Route cost.

- "Regulated Money Lenders" invention now increases import value instead of Global Commerce.

- Material Science Invention now reduces army unit weight.

- Added a number of country specific inventions.

Martial technology now increases maintenance costs by 3% per level, from 2%. Civic tech no longer reduces wage modifier.


# Religions

- Bon Religion bonus reduced to -0.1 build_cost from -0.15

- Canaanite Religion bonus is now reduced Naval Maintenance Cost.

- Zoroastrian Religion bonus is now reduced Army Maintenance Cost.

- Khaldic Religion bonus is now 10% Freeman Output instead of 5%.

- Iberic Religion bonus increased to 10% Global Import value.

- Heptadic Religion is now increased Cohort Starting Experience.

- All Omens that gave population growth now give increased food output.


# Traditions

- Agema Military Tradition now reduces Heavy Cavalry Cost.

- Greek Tradition bonuses to mountains now instead apply to hills.

- Levantine traditions now give 10% Naval morale instead of 5% (so in line with other traditions).

- March of the Eagles (+10% Land Morale) is now a finisher for latin tradition countries.

- North African Traditions now reduce War Elephant Cost.

- Triplex Acies Tactic now available as second tradition for latin countries.


#National Ideas

- State Religion now grants +5 Civilization capacity (from 10).

- Central urban Spaces now give 5% province loyalty instead of 3%.

- City Planning now gives 25% population capacity instead of building slots in cities.

- Discount from standard construction is now 15% (down from 20%).

- Grain Stockpile now increases food output and food capacity instead of population Growth.

- Institutional Proselytism now increases pop conversion speed.

- Siege ability from Siege Training is now 15% (up from 10%).


# Heritages

- Tartessian heritage now increases build cost by 5% instead of 10%.

- Thracian heritage now reduces Civic Provincial Investment cost by 10% instead of 1%.

- Byblos heritage now reduces Pop Assimilation Speed instead of Manpower Recovery Speed.

- Arvernian Heritage now reduces Heavy Infantry Maintenance instead of Slaves needed for Surplus.

- Rural Heritage now decreases cost to found cities instead of the cost to build roads.

- Armenian Heritage now reduces subject opinion instead of siege speed and increases manpower recovery speed instead of Hostile Attrition.

- Seleukos heritage now increases ruler popularity gain by 0.04 instead of 0.02.

- Ptolemaios heritage now decreases population assimilation instead of reducing diplomatic reputation.

- Added Kushite Heritage.

- Added Dahae Heritage.

- Added Helot Heritage.

- Added Kalingan Heritage.

- Added Nabatean Heritage.


# Territories & Provinces

- Governor Policies is now scaled by the finesse of the governor / ruler.

- High Unrest no longer blocks you from building units or build buildings in a province, only disloyal does.

- Migration logic will not move pops to a city where it would make it go over the cap.

- Move Capital no longer costs vast amounts of political influence

- Encourage Trade reduced to 25% base commerce income, but now provides 10% local monthly food modifier.

- Farmland changed to 50% population capacity modifier instead of 20 population capacity


# Mercenaries

- Halved the mercenary debt threshold for recruiting.


# Pops

- You can now enslave population in cities protected by Zone of Control as well, but there is an internal cooldown of about 5 years.

- Non-Tribes will "promote" tribesmen to slaves if they have more than enough freemen.

- Pop Migrations will not swarm the same place, as each incoming pop reduces target migration value internally by -0.5 at evaluation.

- Slaves will no longer be sent to cities that are at their population capacity limit. Instead slaves will be spread out to other nearby cities.

- Slaves now produce more gold.

- Tribes have less happiness penalties with other cultures.

- Slaves will not migrate on their own.

- Slaves will not promote if that would mean you would lose a goods produced, in cities where all holdings are assigned.

- Slaves may promote to tribesmen in tribes.

- Pops of wrong religion are slower to assimilate.

- Pops of wrong culture are slower to convert.

- Different Poptypes now have individual speeds for assimilation, conversion, promotion, demotion, growing and migrating.

- Overpopulation no longer reduces Population Growth, instead it reduces migration attraction and Pop Happiness.

- Starvation now more harmful to Population Growth.

- Climate now has a smaller effect on Population Capacity but also affects Food Output.

- Base conversion and assimilation speed for all pop types reduced.

- Penalty for wrong dominant culture/religion to action speed reduced.

- Pop capacity now scales per missing pop.

- Starvation now affects total population capacity. Overpopulation now reduces population growth by a small amount per overpopulation


# Tradegoods

- Furs export and capital bonus changed to -0.5% experience_decay, from starting experience.

- Marble now increases Civilization Value instead of loyalty, which precious metals already does.

- Removed Growth Category for Trade Good, replaced it with a Food category.

- Surplus of Grain, Fish, Livestock and Vegetables now generates food.

- Salt now increases Population Capacity locally, Surplus of Salt increases Food Storage Capacity.


#Buildings


- Fortresses, works as before but can be built in any type of territory (only 1 level in a settlement).


- Settlement: All Settlement buildings increase population capacity by 25%

- Settlement: Barracks increase desired Freemen ratio to around 75%, as well as freemen happiness and manpower by 20%.

- Settlement: Slave Estate Increases Monthly Food Output by 50%, as well as Slave Output by 40%.

- Settlement: Mines can be built in Settlements that produce Marble, Stone, Precious Metals, Base Metals or Iron and will decrease the needed slaves for producing trade good surplus by 5.

- Settlement: Farming Settlements can be built where Grain, Fish, Vegetables and Livestock exists and increases Food output by 50% and reduces slaves needed for producing trade good surplus by 5.

- Settlement: Tribal Settlement increases Tribesman happiness by 20% and their output by 40%.

- Settlement: Provincial Legation increases Migration Speed by 75% and assimilation speed by 0.2.


- City: Training Camps Increase Local manpower by 10%

- City: Foundry Increases Unit Starting Experience by 5, increases local ship building and recruit speed by 10%

- City: Markets increase Local Commerce by 25%

- City: Tax Offices Increase Local Tax by 10%

- City: Courts of Law Increase Monthly state loyalty by 0.02

- City: Academy increases Research points Generation by 2.5% and Pop Promotion Speed by 0.5.

- City: Granaries increase Maximum Food Storage Capacity by 200.

- City: Libraries increase Citizen Happiness by 3% and Desired Citizen Ratio in the city by 0.06.

- City: Forums increases Freemen Happiness by 3% and Desired Freemen Ratio in the city by 0.06.

- City: Mills increases Slave Happiness by 3% and Slave Output by 3% and Desired Slave Ratio in city by 0.06.

- City: Temples increases Happiness for State Religion Pops by 3% and Conversion Speed by 1.

- City: Theatres increase Happiness for State Culture Pops by 3% and Assimilation Speed by 1.

- City: Aqueducts increases population capacity by 4.


###################

# AI

###################


# Economy

- AI will consider building economic buildings where appropriate based on scripted weights.

- AI will consider changing governor policies periodically based on province needs.


# Diplomacy

- Rewrote defensive league formation logic, they will now primarily grow in response to a common threat.


# Military

- AI will now assault given breaches and sufficient manpower.

- Build ships to navy now will build using naval distance for prioritization.


# Misc

- AI will no longer trade away food if it would cause them to starve.

- AI monarchies will no longer demand that characters support their heir, even when they already did so.

- Ai will prioritise disloyal high powerbase characters more with bribes.


# Antagonist System

- Countries can now be defined as Antagonists, which gives them mechanical benefits against other AI countries, and also higher bonuses at higher game-difficulties.

- Rome, Carthage, Macedon, Thrace, Parnia & Arverni are now Antagonists.

- Remove deprecated "lucky_nation" bonus for Rome, Bactria and Parnia.

- All antagonists use the previous Roman Aggressiveness.


###################

# Interface

###################


# Alerts

- Alertmanager tooltip for disloyal characters now have more information about the powerbase.

- You now get an alert if you have free idea slots.


# Map

- Added a pirate haven indicator to provinces with pirate havens in the barbarian, diplomatic, trade and trade route map modes.

- Made claim stripes yellow in diplomatic mapmode.



# Misc

- Default for trade options is now auto-accept trade, and never give up capital surplus.

- Reworked Buildings Interface.

- View Pops screen now changes to another province when you click on the map.

- View Pops Interface now shows the current pop ratio and desired ratio of pops.

- Trade Interface reworked with more information and a sortable list of trade routes.

- New Technology popups will now list what inventions were unlocked.

- Legitimacy and Centralization is now shown in the top bar for countries that have them.

- You can now detach damaged ships from a fleet with one button press.

- All characters with a power base will now be considered as relevant for the disloyal characters in outliner and alert.

- Added two columns for religious and cultural unity for provinces in the ledger.

- Made the event window slightly less squished.

- Policy Window now fits all policies again without a scrollbar.

- Added sort buttons to the family view.

- The total unit strength is now displayed when you have multiple units selected.

- Improved tooltips for colonising.

- Added outliner category for city building/improvement.

- Clicking the top bar resources will now open the corresponding interface.

- The total unit strength is now displayed when you have multiple units selected.

- Naval mercs are now sorted by naval distance in the Mercenaries Screen.

- Added confirmation window when loading savegame with different version.

- Game now uses steam rich presence to show information to your friends.

- Will now show that a save game is from a different game version.


##############################

# User Modding

##############################


# New Functionality

- Prices can now be scripted to be based on "gold_per_pop".

- Territory types can be fully scripted.


# Effects

- Added 'add_loyal_veterans' effect for character scope.


# Triggers

- Added 'num_loyal_veterans' trigger for character scope.

- Added state_level_loyalty trigger on state scope.

- Added has_low_economic_policy, has_mid_economic_policy & has_high_economic_policy triggers.

- Added 'is_antagonist' trigger for country scope.

- Added state level loyalty trigger.


# Other

- Buildings can now get scripted triggers to limit them from being built

- Buildings can now get scripted triggers to limit them from being shown in the build interface as well.

- Inventions can now get scripted triggers to limit them.

- UI can now use big terrain icons.

- All triggers and effects can be printed to your documents folder using the console command 'script_docs' (you will need to be in debug mode to access the console)

As the reigning local expert on content exceeding 20 thousand characters.... I know how to deal with that limit.  >:D

Quote


###################

# Setup & Script

###################


# Decisions

- Rome now changes to Roman Empire if Imperial government is adopted.

- The "A Mediterrenean Capital" decision now moves your capital for you and gives a better modifier than before to the new capital.


# Events

- Roman flavor events added, pertaining to schisms and significant civil wars.

- Unpopular consuls will now trigger various adverse events on election.

- High power base characters will now be eligible for various event chains reducing their loyalty and affecting internal stability.

- New consorts will no longer rival themselves in Discreditable Dalliance and Indecent Affair chains.

- Fixed military character triggers in military co-consul chain.

- Stopped consorts demanding offices.

- Increased cooldown of Bureaucratic Issues event from 5 years to 25.

- Fixed chance of duplicate characters in Debt Bondage Scandal event.

- Reduced harshness of modifiers in Incendiary Slave event.

- Fixed missing event picture in a trial event.

- Fixed imprisoned characters being scapegoats in trials or appearing in mediation events.

- Fixed A Venomous Tongue firing for already disloyal provinces.

- Fixed names of cities in Diadochi startup events.

- Made Eager Consort and In Good Hands chains mutually exclusive.

- Removed some charisma from the Incendiary Slave.

- Rebalanced the Earthquakes so the killed numbers of pop should be more correct to the amount given in the tooltip, and reduced the cost of paying to take care of the affected provinces.

- Prove Legitimacy interaction now gives bloodlines to character's descendents, if discovered.

- Added event chain to marriage proposals.

- Added several Roman flavor events with a civil-war theme.

- Caught Red Handed correctly reduces loyalty on imprisoned character, preventing exploits.

- Reduced frequency of Caught Red Handed character scheme.

- Peace for the eastern satrapies now also applies a truce with all Seleucid subject states.

- City event that speaks of storm is now connected to having a storm.


# Setup

- Greekified Greek names, family names, nicknames, and regnal names for everyone except Alexander the Great.

- Added Nikaia, Pleistarchos, and Alexarchos Antipatrid (siblings of Kassandros).

- Added Arsinoe, and Eurydike (daughters of Lysimachos).

- Added Blood the Argeads trait to children of Kassandros and Thessalonike (Philippos, Alexandros, Antipatros).

- Fixed family name of Apama Sogdianid (Seleukos' wife).

- Tweaked Numidian Kings event for Carthage.

- Fixed starting Centralization of Massaesylia, Massylia, Musulamia, and Pontus (from 0 to 50)

- Mithridatids are now Median.

- Created more starting trade routes for Carthage, Macedon, Thrace, Athens and Syracuse.

- Kios is now Bithynian country culture.

- Egypt now starts with Levantine Traditions.

- The starting great men of the era now have slightly more exceptional stats.

- Added some more starting characters to the Seleucid Empire.

- There are now more greek settlements in the Seleucid Empire.


# Map

- Added more dynamic city names, removed duplicates, and fixed some anachronistic city names.

- Changed Epirus starting capital to Passaron.

- Changed Euobean starting capital to Karystos.

- Changed Karystos trade good to marble to represent Cipollino/marmor carystium.

- Tweaked starting roads in Jharkhand/east Maurya.


#######################

# Bugfixes

######################


# Stability & Performance

- Fixed a rare crash in longer games.

- Fixed crash when killing ships with boarded cohorts.

- Fixed a rare crash when selecting event options.

- Fixed crash in mercenary view on MacOS.

- Fixed issue where the game looks unresponsive while loading the game.

- Fixed potential crash when doing peace treaties.

- Optimizated map drawing of cities and reduced memory usage.

- Made UI checking for available decisions much faster.

- Multithreaded updating of city graphics (units, wonders etc).

- Save files are much smaller now by default.

- Fixed case where we kept updating map icons zoomed out.

- Reduce daily update for spouse death to improve performance. Only check for spouse death on death of a character.

- Fixed crash when trying to read a savegame in some causes

- Improved fixedpoint64 implementation.

- Implemented parallel writing of savegames.

- Fix for making sure onactions with a single effect still can be called 'delayed'.



# Multiplayer & Out of Syncs

- Fixed rare on-action related OOS.

- Fixed potential characters OOS.

- Fixed rare OOS caused by wonders.

- Fixed rare crash in longer games.

- Fixed rare crash when revolts failed.

- Fixed rare crash when selecting event options.

- Added crossplay functionality for microsoft store.


# Script and Events

- Made Eager Consort and In Good Hands mutually exclusive.

- Consorts will no longer demand offices.

- Characters will now correctly become Foreign Citizens upon moving country.

- Grant stipends no longer charges twice.

- Seize Assets now reduces loyalty of characters, military colonies checks that province has an owner, and governor policy tooltip no longer displays number of tribesmen promoted.


# Game Mechanic Bugs

- A bug where local modifiers sometimes did not count (also known as Marketplaces do nothing) has been fixed.

- Units assigned to a Regional Governor will now use their combat tactics in battle.

- Clan chiefs will no longer start as another position.

- Fixed a few bugs where the game had hardcoded 1000 instead of the Cohort_size define.

- Cost Changes for Declaring Wars now work, aka no-cb-wars-omen etc.

- Can no longer attempt ransom prisoner from char interactions if at war.

- Lack of Governor will no longer upset pops that governor is of a different religion called "".

- Hordes can no longer accumulate negative loot.

- Migrations now use migrating speed and not conversion speed for pops.

- Pops will no longer migrate into Volcanos or Wastelands.

- Mercenaries are no longer caught in an endless loop between two cities after employment.

- Imprisoned disloyal characters can no longer start a civil war.

- Fixed city dominant culture not being recalculated as it should.

- It's no longer possible to abort assaults by retreat.

- Fixed a rare crash when revolts failed.

- Fixed bug where it was possible to disband navies in the lobby.

- Fixed bug where re-colonizing a city would clear any permanent modifiers.

- Fixed right flanking units attack the left most unit instead of right most unit.

- Navy combat now respects flanks and properly uses flanking units

- There are no longer child country rulers at start of the game.

- Declaring war on a country which has allies with whom you are fighting together, won't pull them in that war.

- Fixed bug where shattered retreating unit was stopped from passing through non-friendly territory, causing odd ping-pong behaviour.

- Subjects will now join their overlord in war when using the threaten war action.


# Text & UX

- Peace Treaties tooltips will now say who will get the AE.

- Invalid Characters will be removed from character target selection.

- Heritage in Ledger is now sorted by name, not by internal index.

- Now only shows 2 decimals for Unit Weight in attrition tooltip.

- Fixed the detach siege tooltip when all are loyal.

- Improved tooltip for Garrisons in cityview.

- Build Ships UI no longer resets to army when clicking on another port.

- Fixed bug where building progress was not displayed when building buildings.

- Fixed gov policy tooltips for decentralize and centralize.

- Fixed disloyal characters appearing twice in alert.

- Fixed attrition not being displayed correctly in multi-unit selection view.

- Fixed trade route cost tooltip lacking the cost icon.

- The mercenary view will now update as new mercenaries are created or destroyed while open.

- Fixed case where alliance was preferred over being at war in diplomacy mapmode.

- Fixed ship selection circle sometimes remaining on the map after the ship had been moved to a port.

- Fixed superfluous 'our' in the tooltip for the Subjugative diplomatic stance.

- Fixed trade route cost tooltip lacking the cost icon.

- Replaced the work 'Rank' with rank icon in diplomacy interface nation list.

- The Support Rebels (Apoyar a rebeldes) diplomatic action should now properly show up under the Covert Actions (Acciones encubiertas) category when using Spanish language setting.

- The mercenary view will now update as new mercenaries are created or destroyed while open.

- Tooltip for Abort Rebel Support now properly shows the name of the target country.

- Commerce income tooltip now counts bonuses granted by trade.



# Misc

- DLCs which don't affect the checksum are no longer required to load saves.

- Enabling debug mode will now recalculate the version checksum.

- Fixed bald characters sometimes growing their hair back.

- Fixed global script variables not being updated.

- Fixed ship selection circle sometimes remaining on the map after the ship had been moved to a port.

- Fixed case where AI would sometimes not run logic for certain armies.

- No more overwriting ideas when game is in tutorial mode when you load a save.

- Revanchism is now localized.

Thus ends the patch/update notes.

Just something I saw as I was scrolling by: I sure wouldn't mind the ability for pops to migrate themselves around and/or for my leader to move slaves (if any) around, or tribes around, in FoG:Emp.  :-"

https://www.strategygamer.com/articles/imperator-rome-1-2-cicero-update/

Imperator: Rome's 1.2 Cicero Patch is a Bold step in the Right Direction

Cicero is a dramatic overhaul of the base game, changing some of the most foundational elements that Imperator was built on, as well as a litany of smaller, but much needed, additions that have helped to flesh out some areas that were overlooked at launch. While there's still areas for improvement, Cicero is a great leap forward, and one that shows that the ship is (thankfully) headed in the right direction.

fyi

Quote
Imperator: Rome is Free to Play for until Dec. 8, 19:00 CET! Our team has put their heart and soul into delivering three updates and a free content pack for the game since its release. Make sure to try it out! And if you like what you see, Imperator is currently 33% OFF (knocks it down to $26.79).

I know people complain the heck about this game, but it sure LOOKS like the devs are putting lots of work into it. I'm not disappointed in the purchase; I'm just not competent to play it yet.  :coolsmiley:

Quote from: JasonPratt on December 03, 2019, 07:02:00 PM
I know people complain the heck about this game, but it sure LOOKS like the devs are putting lots of work into it. I'm not disappointed in the purchase; I'm just not competent to play it yet.  :coolsmiley:

  I fired it up as Very Easy Egypt (after getting trounced as some other Hellentistic Kingdoms).  Oddy, Siwa Oasis is in the wrong place.  Siwa is out by the Qattara Depression (under its ancient name Ammon something or other)...