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Stellaris

Started by RedArgo, October 01, 2015, 01:58:22 PM

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Steelgrave

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 24, 2018, 11:20:17 AM
Alright...perhaps I was a bit quick to judgment. I finally got a fair start and can't say I'm not enjoying myself... :-X
That's one of the things I like about you, JH....you don't give up easily  O0

Gusington

I also enjoy JH's arguments with himself.


слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

OJsDad

I've been playing quite a bit the last few days.  In fact, the only reason I'm not playing now, is that my son kicked me off the computer so he play Farm Simulator.


Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 24, 2018, 09:58:48 AM
Personally, I am not enjoying it. I'm sure there is a wall to break through to positive somewhere, but I haven't found it yet. I'm finding expansion to be extremely frustrating. Without the ability to expand in the early game, its just f@cking boring. Without being able to expand, I'm barely able to defend myself against pirates, which further prevents me from expanding.

I do agree, the game is a lot slower.  I think you really have to set the crisis starts back further at the game setup.  Otherwise, you're going to get steam rolled.  I think I have 5 planets colonized in the first 40-50 years.

I'm not having too much issue with pirates.  In my current game, They kept appearing in single system, even after I cleared them.  Once I placed an outpost there, they quit popping up.

QuoteI'm just not sure why they felt the need to totally restructure the game. Clearly many people enjoyed it as it was...furthermore, it took me damn near half an hour to figure out how to build naval vessels. Why the hell does the UI hide this build menu behind an obscure tab in the starbase menu? I can build civilian ships directly from the spaceport tab in the planet UI, but the only way to build military vessels is to select the starbase and find a hidden UI tab...WTF? It adds two or three clicks to perform a really common function...for what?

Remember, civilian ships can be built at any planet.  Those are science, construction, and colony ships.  Same as pre 2.0.

No, you have to decide which outposts to upgrade to space stations.  While there is no limit to the number outposts you can build (provided you have the minerals and influence) there is a limit on the number of space stations.  Once an outpost upgraded, you can then decide if it can build military ships or not.  You do this by adding a shipyard.  You may choose not to add a shipyard though, an example may be a space station in a boarder system that is the for protection.  Then you may want to make it weapons heavy.  Also, space stations can build defense platforms that orbit it, thus strengthening the system defenses.

This is a big change from, you can do everything to where do you really need these key components at.

Oh, if you didn't see it yet, space stations are on the quick list menu in their own group, separate from planets.  Those space stations with shipyards are listed separate from those without.


A couple of other thoughts;

1.  During game setup, on the Hyperlane Desity down to .75, it really changes the map layout.  In my current game, I've a some chains of systems that are deadends.  Unless there is something I need immediately on one of those systems, I don't waste my influense on building outposts to them all.  I'll lock them up so no one else can get there, and then bring them into my borders later.

2.  When I start a game, I look at the geographic layout of the hyperlanes.  As I work my way out the different paths from my home system, I image each system as within my borders.  I thik look for choke points.  Systems that only have one hyperlane connecting from outside of my borders.  I then send my science ships to those chokepoints.  If those systems look promising, I'll then survey the system between, and start buiding outposts.  Even while your sciense ships are passing through systems your not surveying, you can see if they have any planets.  They can help you decide which way to start expanding. 

3.  With the changes to space stations, you don't need to have a planet in a system to make it usefull.  I have one space station at a choke point that can build military ships and I've been building defense plateforms to defend the system.

'Here at NASA we all pee the same color.'  Al Harrison from the movie Hidden Figures.

OJsDad

While over at the Matrix forums today, I noticed a thread about the Stellaris update in the Distant Worlds section.  It's been locked, as the OP isn't kind to Stellaris.  But here is what it says.

Quote
It is glacial pace, aggrevating, pacing is all wrong, combat is incredibly shallow unlike DWU, AI sucks (unlike DWU), your interstellar galaxy spanning empire is limited to 1 scout ship - 1 science/scout for you! 2 if you're lucky and much later in game.
I

I can understand the unhappiness with the pacing.  However, DW does allow for an Epic game that will slow it down a lot.

I"ll need to fire up DW:U again, it's been quite awhile.  But, from my memory, combat in DW was the worst.  At least in Stellaris, the ships in your fleet attack together.  Nothing more frustrating in DW than do have a fleet jump on an enemy in a circle, then attack piecemeal and get the crap kicked out them by a weaker force.  Am I remembering that correctly, or has that changed.

I not sure why this person has issues with building science ships.  I have 3 in my game.  It takes a little longer, as you need energy to high leaders and not influence now, but it's not that much longer.  I could have more science ships now, but don't think I need them.
'Here at NASA we all pee the same color.'  Al Harrison from the movie Hidden Figures.

mikeck

Maybe I'm in the minority but I love the changes and I hope they don't change it back. I'm tired of every 4x game being a colony rush at the beginning. It's always better to expand as quickly as possible and the. Develope. This seems far more realistic. Slow expansion, development and having to actually plan the expansion. Finally. Usually I just build colony ships and grab every green icon planet I can.

If people want colony rush, there are dozens of games for them. This is the only slow paced game where you actually continue to expand mid-game.

You can increase the number of habitable worlds in the options. This gives you more habitable worlds close by so you can get 5-6 worlds right off the bat...if you want.

To each their own and I understand why people don't like it...but there are some of us who welcome the much slower pace. Although I could be the only one!
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson

Ian C

#1220
A game company changing the fundamental basis of a game after a long period of time creates a precedent, especially for a base of players that have substantially invested in all DLC. I'm not sure what my feelings are on this, although I did like the other FTL methods and I did buy all the DLC at Xmas as a treat.

I hope I can get into this new version as I'd hate to feel like I've been ripped off, but I won't give a negative view until I've tried it properly, although The "glacial pace" and "1 scout ship only" does sound like a raw deal.




mikeck

A lot of people feel like you do Ian. I wouldn't be surprised if they modified it or even rolled back the whole outpost/ colonization thing to speed up expansion. I hope they don't but I'm in the minority.

You can always roll back the game to the 1.9 version though. There is a sticky on the forums about how but it's pretty easy
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson

OJsDad

Quote from: Ian C on February 24, 2018, 06:11:32 PM
"1 scout ship only" does sound like a raw deal.

Again. There is no "1 scout ship only"  You can have as many as you can afford. Just like before. The only difference is that it costs energy to hire leaders instead of influence.
'Here at NASA we all pee the same color.'  Al Harrison from the movie Hidden Figures.

fabius

Very early I had 4 Scout Science ships out getting my scientists XP

Took a while before I realised that I can have as many system ownerships as I can afford to build (no upkeep cost)- expansion rate rocketed after that.

CJReich46

#1224
Quote from: OJsDad on February 24, 2018, 07:13:12 PM
Quote from: Ian C on February 24, 2018, 06:11:32 PM
"1 scout ship only" does sound like a raw deal.

Again. There is no "1 scout ship only"  You can have as many as you can afford. Just like before. The only difference is that it costs energy to hire leaders instead of influence.

Exactly this. I usually as a rule build one more science vessel to send out. One, it levels up scientists faster who do the surveying, and also finding anomalies as well as now exploring the hyperlane routes.

It's slow, but I wouldn't call it glacial slow. Sure there's parts where you are wondering, "Why is that fleet taking so long?"  but I do think that now with exploration and surveying being done by the science ships it makes things more gradual and with the outposts you have to think where you want to expand your borders to.

I like the outpost/starbase- idea. That separates your military ships from the civilians and it since you can arm them, and build defense stations, etc. It makes them useful in setting up defenses.  Plus the best part is the civvies upgrade themselves!

OJ, just warning you. Pirates do spawn regardless. I heard the Apocalypse expansion gives you the Marauders which are sort of like DW's pirates. (Which I like because they were useful)

I've had numerous clashes with pirates, each one getting bigger than the last. One actually wiped out my mining stations, disabled my outposts and went right to one of my home planets. But it didn't attack the home system stations or the starbase there. But once my fleets cornered it it was a brawl.

I like swarm  missile packs. Now I have cruisers some with improved torpedoes, ion disrupters, and UV lasers and antimatter missiles baby! We're still woefully behind the rest of the galaxy when it comes to our fleet strength, and our number of colonies - I think I established my first one around 2240s, and then made our first real contact with an empire around 2270s and after establishing "communications" with one which of course opened the door to all the other AI races.

I might watch a few LPs to get some ideas on how to proceed further though.
" He either fears his fate too much
Or his deserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch
To win or lose it all."  - James Graham 1st Marquis of Montrose

OJsDad

Quote from: CJReich46 on February 24, 2018, 10:30:45 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on February 24, 2018, 07:13:12 PM
It's slow, but I wouldn't call it glacial slow. Sure there's parts where you are wondering, "Why is that fleet taking so long?"  but I do think that now with exploration and surveying being done by the science ships it makes things more gradual and with the outposts you have to think where you want to expand your borders to.
watch a few LPs to get some ideas on how to proceed further though.

I forgot to talk about this.  Pre 2.0 you ships would jump into a system, then jump to another system from that spot.  Now, they have to travel to a different part of a system to jump to a different system.  This does indeed slow down how long it take ships to move across your empire.  Sub light drives are now more important than ever. 
'Here at NASA we all pee the same color.'  Al Harrison from the movie Hidden Figures.

mikeck

I just don't understand why slowing down a 4x is a bad thing. The rushes. Igh
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson

Nefaro

Quote from: mikeck on February 24, 2018, 05:09:30 PM
Maybe I'm in the minority but I love the changes and I hope they don't change it back. I'm tired of every 4x game being a colony rush at the beginning. It's always better to expand as quickly as possible and the. Develope. This seems far more realistic. Slow expansion, development and having to actually plan the expansion. Finally. Usually I just build colony ships and grab every green icon planet I can.

I agree with this sentiment, although I've not yet given Stellaris a spin since the changes.  I'm inclined to like the slower expansion for the same reasons you do, though.

I also still perceive Stellaris as more similar to an EU4, than many of the other space 4X games.  So the limits on fast expansion, and focus on other details, makes sense in that framework.

Huw the Poo

The pirates have not been a problem for me, considering you can build up to six defense platforms at each outpost.  So far they have been sufficient to either destroy each pirate fleet, or at least occupy them for long enough for my own fleet to arrive and smash them into atoms.

This is a slow game, there's no doubt about it.  I have a very modest empire, I don't even have any sectors yet, and it still takes forever for my ships to cross it.  I don't consider that good or bad though - it's largely subjective really, isn't it?

I think I do like the way expansion now works.  Before, it was very expensive to expand - you had to either colonise new worlds or place outposts at enormous influence cost if I recall correctly.  Now, I can expand as quickly as I can scout and worry about colonising later.  Of course, that means the other empires can do this too...

Jarhead0331

What is the difference between exploring a system and surveying a system? I always choose survey, since that is what I am used to from prior versions.

I have a pretty modest sized empire now with 5 colonized worlds in three sectors. My energy and mineral income is generally acceptable, but the mineral income fluctuates at times due to demand for consumer goods. I'm not sure what drives this demand or what I can do to impact it...I presume the severity of the demand, or even its existence has to do with my racial or governmental choices when creating the civilization...thoughts?
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18