Middle Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread

Started by JasonPratt, September 17, 2018, 05:04:17 PM

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JasonPratt

Quote from: malize on November 18, 2018, 07:51:51 PM
Quote from: Tripoli on November 18, 2018, 07:43:16 PM
I would like to propose the following for consideration:  Claudius for Consul, Manlius of the Militarist for Consul to prosecute the  pyrric war,and Fulvius for Censor this turn, with the condition that neither the The Plutocrats, The Militarists or the Progressive be prosecuted this turn.

With Populist immunity, agreed

Note that the other Players can still enter the Contract regardless of whether this condition is met. But if the Frog grants the provisional exemption from prosecution, then Malize would be contracted to vote for the relevant Proposals, and I would automatically process those votes as the Proposals come up. (The Frog's assent to the Contract would also set up automatic Proposals for me to process, once all stated parties ratify it.)
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

Also note that if any Player accepting the original Contract proposal agrees to include Malize's provision, then Tripoli (and anyone else relevantly involved who has already agreed to the original Contract proposal) must clarify whether or not he agrees with the provision.

If not, then the original Contract either stands without the provision, or else the Contract may be dead in the water if the relevant parties (being Contracted to act accordingly) cannot agree on whether to include Malize's provision for Fulvius not to act against the Populist senators.


(It's kind of like setting up a program in Fortran. ;) Unless the whole thing is valid, it won't even run.)
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

The Frog sent a chat note (last night just after midnight my time) that he accepts both the original Contract proposal and also Malize's condition for joining the Contract.

Tripoli (who runs Manlius), is really the only other person who needs to verify in, since his proposed Contract only involves senators from the Plutocrats and the Militarists. Tripoli already automatically agreed with the original Contract (having proposed it), but should technically agree or disagree with the provision for the Frog not to prosecute the Populists this Turn (if Fulvius gets elected Censor of course).

All three Players (if Tripoli agrees with Malize's provision to join the Contract) would be then bound to automatically vote in favor of the planned Proposals, and I'd process those votes automatically. (Or for only Tripoli and the Frog if Trip doesn't agree to Malize's provision.)


Any of the other three Players can agree to join the first or second version of the Contract, but this isn't strictly necessary. Joining the Contract would also lock them into voting along the Contracted plan. (If some stage of the Contract somehow fails, then Contracted Players need not continue on with the plan.)
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Erax

The Progressives agree to both versions of the Contract (noting that both grant us immunity).

JasonPratt

Original contract terms for this Turn, agreed to so far by: Tripoli (who is proposing it); the Frog (by chat); and as secondary agreement by Erax.

Provisional contract terms (Populists not to be investigated by the Censor) agreed to so far by: Malize (who is proposing it); the Frog (by chat); and as a secondary agreement by Erax.

Tripoli must announce whether he is accepting or rejecting the provisional contract terms. Doing so will validate and activate one or the other Contract (since he and the Frog, or rather their senators, would be the main enactors).

AzTank sends message by chat that he will not be joining either version of the Contract. He will still be free to support or oppose any actions triggered in sequence by the Contract.

Nothing has been heard from I.I. recently, one way or another....  ??? (He may not be aware yet that we're back in business.)
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Tripoli

Quote from: JasonPratt on November 19, 2018, 03:49:31 PM
Original contract terms for this Turn, agreed to so far by: Tripoli (who is proposing it); the Frog (by chat); and as secondary agreement by Erax.

Provisional contract terms (Populists not to be investigated by the Censor) agreed to so far by: Malize (who is proposing it); the Frog (by chat); and as a secondary agreement by Erax.

Tripoli must announce whether he is accepting or rejecting the provisional contract terms. Doing so will validate and activate one or the other Contract (since he and the Frog, or rather their senators, would be the main enactors).

AzTank sends message by chat that he will not be joining either version of the Contract. He will still be free to support or oppose any actions triggered in sequence by the Contract.

Nothing has been heard from I.I. recently, one way or another....  ??? (He may not be aware yet that we're back in business.)

I accept all of the contract terms, including the provisional terms, that Populists not to be investigated by the Censor
"Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?" -Abraham Lincoln

JasonPratt

#621
This validates and activates the Contract as stated, with the Malize Provision.

Tripoli, the Frog, Malize, and Erax, enter into the Sixth Turn Grand Convocation (as I shall colorfully name their public Contract), wherein each Player of the Contract shall commit all available votes toward the following actions during this Senate session, which shall be automatically processed as follows:

1.) the Proposal of Manlius of the Militarists and Appius Claudius of the Plutocrats for Consul;

2.) the agreement between them (if elected) that Manlius will be Field Consul, and Appius Roman Consul;

3.) the Proposal of Fulvius of the Plutocrats for Censor this Turn;

4.) the agreement that, if elected, Fulvius shall not investigate any member of the Militarists, the Plutocrats, the Populists, or the Progressives this Turn on Minor or Major Suspicions of Corruption (note that this Contract cannot, however, legally waive Special Major Investigations of Assassination attempts);

5.) and the Proposal to send Manlius to Prosecute the Pyrrhic War.

This Contract does not prevent Appius (if the plans get that far) from also introducing a formal Proposal to Raise more potentially available Legions, which he may choose to do before fulfilling the Contracted promise to send Manlius against the Pyrrhic War.

(Strictly speaking the Contract does not specify that Manlius will be given more than one Legion, the minimum possible, to fight the War! -- but unless I'm instructed otherwise by the Frog I will presumptively process the Proposal as sending all available Legions.)

The Aristocrats and the Conservatives may also still join this Contract as a way of pre-specifying their agreement to vote as noted; but this will not render them immune from potential investigation by the Censor.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

Having achieved this political monument, I will theoretically start processing it tomorrow afternoon, since it's 8:48pm here now, and my left ear has decided to pick up some kind of infection that feels like an occasional ice-pick.  :buck2:

(Or possibly one of the other two Players has sent an assassin after the umpire...  ^-^ Why couldn't it have been a Seduction Intrigue...  :-* )
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

Blergh. Long day at work (longer day tomorrow), and sitting around for an hour and a half at the clinic (hopefully not to be repeated soon).

Let's get the processes started!

In accord with the 6thTurGraCon: Fulvius of the Plutocrats Proposes Manlius of the Militarists, and Appius Claudius of the Plutocrats, as the new Consuls this Turn.

All four 6thTurGraCon members automatically vote in favor. Even if the other two Factions voted against, and even counting for their activist abilities (which would indeed activate), there would be +17 votes for the Proposal, so it will pass.

In accord with the 6thTurGraCon: Manlius agrees to be the Field Consul, leaving the Frog controlling the HRAO again with his senator Appius Claudius as Roman Consul. Each of the two senators gains 4 influence, up to 8 and 17 respectively; as do their Factions totally, up to 14 and 33 respectively.

The Pontifex Maximus is still alive; and no Dictator is needed yet.

In accord with the 6thTurGraCon: Appius as the new Roman Consul takes over as the new Presiding Magistrate, and Proposes Fulvius of his fellow Plutocrats as the new Censor.

All four 6thTurGraCon members automatically vote in favor, with the same majority results. Fulvius gains 4 Influence, up to 15; and the Plutocrats gain 4 total up to 37. (The Aristocrats still retain first place influence at 39.)

Fulvius temporarily takes the PM post, to declare whether or not there will be investigations this Turn. In accord with the 6thTurGraCon, the only senators who might be investigated are...

...from the Aristocrats: prior Consul Quinctius Cincinnatus (Major); Cornelius (Minor); and Valerius (two Minors);

and from the Conservatives: Fabius the Pontifex Maximus (Major).


(As a sidenote, there are some Minor corruption Suspicions on one of Erax's senators which I forgot to mark before taking the pre-Senate snapshot. They'll be irrelevant this Turn, under the terms of the Contract, but I thought I should still account for my inadvertence there.  O:-) )


We now await the Frog's choice whether to initiate any investigations this Turn.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Ethel the Frog

As I understand it, the Conservatives are winning (or maybe in second place).  So, I am inclined to proescute Fabius.  (Sorry Larry).

How do I calculate my odds of success? 

JasonPratt

Just so we're clear: you can launch only one Major Prosecution per Turn, win or lose.

And if you win, Fabius will die.

Which, being a family Senator, will mean that his card loses all its chits and goes to the Curia to await respawning back into the Forum (from which some other Faction, or possibly AzTank again, may convince the new Fabian scion to join.)

If you succeed, you'll also need to Propose a new Pontifex Maximus, since that's Fabius right now. All conferred priesthoods will remain active for life regardless. (Although, AzTank might decide to reassign Fulvius' priesthood to someone else! -- which will deduct a point of Influence from Fulv and from the Plutocrats. He can do this at any time, at will, during any Senate Phase, including at any time during the Prosecution, though not between the verdict and the result.)


Incidentally, AzTank still needs to tell me which of his senators paid the 2 Talents and won the knight for his new or extra minion earlier this Turn. It wouldn't have made any difference in the voting results up to now, but it could prove handy soon. I still recommend giving Marcus Furius Camillus (your Faction Leader) a second minion thereby, since he's guaranteed to pass down all his chits as inheritance to his next family member.


As for odds, I'll work out the details on that next.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

Some technical details which might become relevant soon...  ^-^

Fulvius does NOT have to Investigate and Prosecute Fabius for a "Major" suspicion! -- he can choose to use one of his two "Minor" Prosecution attempts instead. In a victory, this will not result in death for Fabius, only some nerfing.

If the Censor (Fulvius in this case) is assassinated before declaring a Prosecution, there will be no Prosecutions this Turn. If he is assassinated during a Prosecution, then that will end the Prosecution.

If a Censor is assassinated, there will not be another Censor election until next Turn. Special Major Investigations of Faction Leaders of caught Assassins will still be Prosecuted, but by the current Presiding Magistrate. (So assassinating a Censor isn't safe from retributive investigation.)

Prosecutions cannot be vetoed by the PontMax's special one-veto-per-Turn ability.

I should mention here that AzTank could have used his PontMax's veto ability to scotch the Consul Proposal! But the only thing that would have happened (aside from the conspirators fadging up another similar Contract) would have been the Proposal of Julius, a slightly less capable general, and Appius again, as Consuls. So I didn't bother asking AzTank if he wanted to veto it. He might need it later (though I wasn't expecting Fabius per se to be Prosecuted -- I suspected the Frog had someone in mind, but I didn't know who.)

ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

#627
For a quick summary of the process:

1.) the Censor must declare he will Prosecute the target (not strictly done yet) and the type of investigation (ditto). Minor suspicions cannot be given Major Prosecutions, but a Major suspicion can be given a Minor Prosecution (with less penalty for the accused on conviction).

2.) the Censor must choose another (consenting) senator to act as Prosecutor -- the Censor is running the trial, not actually prosecuting. Edited to add: valid Prosecutors can be any senator actually in Rome for the Senate, except for the Censor, and except for the Accused. (There's an exception to that, if the Censor is the Faction Leader of a caught assassin: then he must investigate himself! However, Prosecutors and Advocates aren't used in a Prosecution for assassination conspiracy anyway.)

3.) the Accused must choose someone to be his Advocate. He can choose himself, if he wishes! -- or any other senator currently in Rome. Not the Prosecutor nor Censor though, duh. (Note again that in a Special Prosecution for investigating a Faction Leader for assassination conspiracy, no Prosecutors or Advocates can be chosen.)

4.) All Players will be called by the Censor (in order or in no order, Censor's choice) to vote at the start of the Trial, in favor or against Acquittal. Any senator (including the Censor, Prosecutor, and Advocate) can vote for or against (or abstain). All knights and special Faction abilities will factor in. So will senators (not Factions) spending personal treasury cash to buy more votes!

5.) The Accused's Player may make a Popular Appeal, rolling 2d6 and then adding his Popularity (or subtracting if negative Pop). The total is compared to a special table and can add or subtract 4, 8, or 16 votes toward Acquittal. This can also result in a mob freeing or lynching the Accused! (And possibly his opponents or the Advocate!) Fabius has 2 Popularity, so there is no chance of him being slain by the mob, and in the worst possible case 12 votes against him. (It should be noted that this makes Populist senators much harder to convict!)

6.) Assuming the Trial doesn't end by Popular Appeal, the Prosecutor and Advocate make their cases: 2d6 + Advocate's Oratory - Prosecutor's Oratory. (This represents the net result of voting by the hundreds of other normally invisible senators, which could be as much as plus or minus 20.)

7.) This leads to the final tally: Net Player Votes + Net Popular Votes (if any) + Net Trial Votes + the Accused's Influence (13 for Fabius). Any result less than 0 is Conviction. Otherwise Acquittal. Accused loses the relevant Suspicion mark in any case.

8.) Upon Acquittal, the Advocate (if not the Accused) gains 3 Influence, and Prosecutor (not Censor) loses 3. If Freed by mob action, the Censor and Prosecutor both risk death by mortality chit (even for Minor Prosecutions).

9.) Upon any Conviction, the Accused will lose any Prior Consul chit, and the Prosecutor will gain Prior Consul status (if he doesn't have it already). For Minor Conviction, the Accused loses 5 Popularity, loses 5 Influence, and all his Concessions go directly to the Forum for potential reassignment. For Major Conviction, the Accused dies. Either way, the Prosecutor (not the Censor!) will gain half the Accused's lost Influence, rounded up.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Ethel the Frog

I'll try a major with Aelius to prosecute.  I will prosecute Larry's guy who has a 4 oratory so he can't defend himself.

JasonPratt

That's Spurious Cassius Vicellinus, who would be a nice vulnerable target (mainly thanks to having almost no influence -- his Ora 4 is actually quite good for Oratory if he chose to Advocate for himself), except for one problem: he isn't under any suspicion of corruption at all! He didn't hold any major office last Turn (or on any Turn so far as I know), and doesn't have any Concessions much less ones he has received profit from. (There are a few other ways to get suspicions of corruption, but none are active yet in the game.)

Actually, Fabius the Pont Max is the only Conservative senator who has any suspicion against him. It's either him; one of the Aristocrats; or no one this Turn. (By Contract you can't go after the other three Players this Turn.)

Tripoli will have to agree to send Aelius to Prosecute for you. His Ora 4 rating is a good choice.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!