IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Stalingrad Discussion

[Father Ted]

Couple of observations...

The IL2 tank crew thing is an offshoot of the flightsim technology and as such (I'm pretty sure) will not feature infantry other than as decoration.

What they decide to charge for it is up to them.

The IL2-BoX franchise is not a sim-lite akin to Warthunder

[Destraex]

These two shots are from the beginning of a mission in the STA mod. We're just about to assault a hill. This is what you are looking for in a tank sim, yes? 

Screenshots of STA mod look very nice thanks Jar. But I need multiplayer which I must look to see if it supports.

I apologise as well for getting you to make those screenshots, originally I was referring to tank crew with regards to screenshots because of the statement you made that I quote below. I wanted to see the men disembarking for trucks and APCs etc in Tank Crew. Just thinking also their may be an NDA?
"I'm not sure how he is defining "infantry"...I'm playing Tank Crew now, and I find groups of men moving around on the battlefield. They seem to be disembarking from trucks and APCs, or abandoning AT guns, artillery and destroyed tanks. They may not be "infantry" in the traditional sense, but its highly immersive"

[Destraex]

Couple of observations...

The IL2 tank crew thing is an offshoot of the flightsim technology and as such (I'm pretty sure) will not feature infantry other than as decoration.

What they decide to charge for it is up to them.

The IL2-BoX franchise is not a sim-lite akin to Warthunder

a) Father Ted if you are charging $107 Australian, which is around the same price they charged for the entire brand new freshly developed il2 back when it was first released. I expect them to "develop" the engine some more. But that is just me. I am trying to figure out whether to put down for it at some point. Gathering intel here from the folks that will give the honest hard answers. I understand that this is basically an offshoot muck around project some of the devs did in their "spare" time for fun. But now they have made it into a very expensive full game. This is not a small investment for me.

b) They can charge what they want. I can judge whether they have done enough to justify that in my eyes as a customer.

c) By sim-lite, I meant that it is not considered to be as complex as cliffs of dover or DCS for the most part. It's default settings if I recall correctly manage most things for you out of the box. It is much more of a war sim than a study sim if I recall which is not a bad thing in my book and is why I hoped for more for the price on the ground. I know when il2 BOS came out some of the community considered it a flight game first and a flight simulator second.  War Thunder air on realistic settings is surprisingly complex for a free game by the way but certainly not a simulator either.

P.S. On the forums over at il2 BOS I am already reading that Jason came back when somebody complained about the textures being too low res that they did not do better textures so it would run well for "everybody". Another reason I wanted to see screenshots on Jarhead's beast. I am not hater. But I don't know whether it's going to be worth it for me and more importantly if I will be playing on my own.... I am kind of the lead scout for my group sometimes with these kind of games. They are huge investments for one that really only plays with others for the most part online. To get a couple of my group to grab this with me I would have to prove it offered something different and engaging. An amazing point of difference. I am currently not seeing any.

Here it is:
"We can't make such huge textures and expect it to run so smooth for everyone. But you can always make new ones with mods and see what happens.



Jason"
https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/37499-developer-diary-part-195-discussion/

BTW Jarhead did you say the campaign is coop ??

[RyanE]

Can someone explain to me why they would consider BOS less of a sim than CLOD?  I play both and would never have made that distinction.  I find myself playing BOS and its add ons more because of the development that been done, but still play CLOD a bit.  I just don't see the difference.

[JudgeDredd]

Can someone explain to me why they would consider BOS less of a sim than CLOD?  I play both and would never have made that distinction.  I find myself playing BOS and its add ons more because of the development that been done, but still play CLOD a bit.  I just don't see the difference.

Because CLOD is broken beyond belief and it's made slightly better by Blitz

No?

I'm not 100% on it because I gave up on CLoD because it was broken. I then downloaded Blitz because I heard it fixed shit and whilst it did, it appears there's some issue still. My daughter's BF was playing it (far more than I have) and said there were lots of glitches - and that was with Blitz installed

I just remember CLoD not only being broken but an absolute shadow of what it was meant to be. I'm not talking about what gamers thought it would be - but what they were actually led to believe it would be.

[Father Ted]

Can someone explain to me why they would consider BOS less of a sim than CLOD?  I play both and would never have made that distinction.  I find myself playing BOS and its add ons more because of the development that been done, but still play CLOD a bit.  I just don't see the difference.

That's my feeling too.

BTW @Destraex my "observations" were a little more pithy than they should have been - apologies.

I guess the "how sim is a sim?" question is pretty subjective after a point.  My personal take is that a sim should give you a glimpse of what the real thing was/is like.  For me, the study sim is like a hyper-realist painting - highly detailed but a little flat and soul-less.  RoF/BoX/CloD I see as a piece of Impressionism - you could argue that it's a little fuzzy around the edges, but it does give you a feel for the occasion.

As I said that's just my view.  I can fully see that some will only be happy with a sim when they know they have to throw all the switches and so on. For me, however, once you have solid FMs, high fidelity doesn't trump the sensation generated by the graphic and audio artists who use their smoke and mirrors to put you in the cockpit.  And, at the moment, I think the guys at 777/1C are the best at that art.

[RyanE]

Can someone explain to me why they would consider BOS less of a sim than CLOD?  I play both and would never have made that distinction.  I find myself playing BOS and its add ons more because of the development that been done, but still play CLOD a bit.  I just don't see the difference.

Because CLOD is broken beyond belief and it's made slightly better by Blitz

No?

I'm not 100% on it because I gave up on CLoD because it was broken. I then downloaded Blitz because I heard it fixed shit and whilst it did, it appears there's some issue still. My daughter's BF was playing it (far more than I have) and said there were lots of glitches - and that was with Blitz installed

I just remember CLoD not only being broken but an absolute shadow of what it was meant to be. I'm not talking about what gamers thought it would be - but what they were actually led to believe it would be.

While a good rant, doesn't really answer the question of why CLOD, BOS, or even DCS would be considered better sim than the other.

[MengJiao]

Can someone explain to me why they would consider BOS less of a sim than CLOD?  I play both and would never have made that distinction.  I find myself playing BOS and its add ons more because of the development that been done, but still play CLOD a bit.  I just don't see the difference.

  I think its a matter of focus rather than game mechanics that impact play.  DCS seems like more of a sim than anything else I play, but it also works better overall so its hard to gauge.  For me CloD Blitz is more or less perfect as far as it goes, but I agree, its only slightly more of a sim (judging by all the options I never use) than BOx -- where I use more of what's available.

[RyanE]

So why is it more of a sim?  Are there specifics?  Is it switches, flight models, weapon effects, etc.?

I see you mentioned options.  To me, they both have a lot of options.  I don't see a big difference.

[JudgeDredd]

Can someone explain to me why they would consider BOS less of a sim than CLOD?  I play both and would never have made that distinction.  I find myself playing BOS and its add ons more because of the development that been done, but still play CLOD a bit.  I just don't see the difference.

Because CLOD is broken beyond belief and it's made slightly better by Blitz

No?

I'm not 100% on it because I gave up on CLoD because it was broken. I then downloaded Blitz because I heard it fixed shit and whilst it did, it appears there's some issue still. My daughter's BF was playing it (far more than I have) and said there were lots of glitches - and that was with Blitz installed

I just remember CLoD not only being broken but an absolute shadow of what it was meant to be. I'm not talking about what gamers thought it would be - but what they were actually led to believe it would be.

While a good rant, doesn't really answer the question of why CLOD, BOS, or even DCS would be considered better sim than the other.

It wasn't meant to be a rant. I misread your (admittedly) simple post. Apologies.

[RyanE]

No apologies needed...it was a good set of comments.  I find CLOD somewhat no fully fixed yet also.  They made tremendous progress, but there are still issues.

[MengJiao]

So why is it more of a sim?  Are there specifics?  Is it switches, flight models, weapon effects, etc.?

I see you mentioned options.  To me, they both have a lot of options.  I don't see a big difference.

  In terms of what you actually do in the game, they are essentially the same BUT there seem to be more possible ways a player can manage his aircraft in CLoD...though as to whether they are all functional or make any sense I have no idea...I keep the sim element pretty low in all games I play.  DCS seems to be more of a sim since in most cases the options for management seem to have definite impacts (for example in the Mig21, leaving your radar on uses up the alcoholic coolant).  In the case of DCS this perception is probably partly the result of the fact that the game runs very well for the most part-- so you can detect impacts that might in CLoD escape you because you aren't sure if the game is acting like it is supposed to at least some of the time.

[RyanE]

But your example is a modern plane.  I am wondering about WW2 planes as a direct comparison.  For example, is engine start or management any more complex or realistic in any of the three?  Or does the the complexity even matter?

[Tuna]

But your example is a modern plane.  I am wondering about WW2 planes as a direct comparison.  For example, is engine start or management any more complex or realistic in any of the three?  Or does the the complexity even matter?

DCS is more complex.. have to go online anytime I want to start my Mustang.. sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fail.. lol.. I think the Warthog is easier to start.

[RyanE]

OK, that's a start.  But what is more complex?  Is it because its a P-51 in general?  Is the ME-109 more complex in DCS than in BOS?