WH40K Gladius: Relics of War out soon

Started by Boggit, June 30, 2018, 03:33:33 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Skwerl

I picked the base game up yesterday and played a couple of hours last night.  So far, I like it.  I've seen several complaints online about the lack of diplomatic options, but in a universe where all the factions are constantly at war with each other, what purpose would an elaborate diplomacy scheme serve?

One feature that I really like is the fact that you're not just at war with another faction, you're at war with the planet itself.

I agree with Jarhead's earlier comment, it definitely has that "one-more-turn" aspect to it.

W8taminute

#31
Clearly if people are complaining that there is a lack of diplomatic options in this game are ignorant of the WH40K universe.  Don't they know that "in the future, there is only war"?

Perhaps they need to be elucidated on the subject by brother Kor Phaeron?
"You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend."

Romulan Commander to Kirk

JasonPratt

Piddling around with it last night, I noticed that despite not having the new Tyrannid expansion, Tyrannids do spawn on the map as independent maneuver squad enemies. I haven't noticed them making bases (or starting with a base) yet, nor do I get the option to make an AI Tyrannid team, but they may exist as enemy bases without much guidance in development. Sort of like how in other such games, let's say Master of Magic and its successors, you may not have one of the opponents governing orcs to start with, but there might easily be orc bases on the map growing from outposts or villages into cities, as well as orc freelance groups wandering the map from the beginning, and possibly being spawned by map areas.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

bbmike

Quote from: W8taminute on January 17, 2019, 03:58:09 PM
Clearly if people are complaining that there is a lack of diplomatic options in this game are ignorant of the WH40K universe.  Don't they know that "in the future, there is only war"?

Perhaps they need to be elucidated on the subject by brother Kor Phaeron?

Honestly I think that's why the developer set the game in this universe. Their Pandora: First Contact game was also know for having almost no diplomacy. All fighting and no diplomatic options make for an easy AI to program.
"My life is spent in one long effort to escape from the commonplace of existence."
-Sherlock Holmes

"You know, just once I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets."
-Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart

"There's a horror movie called Alien? That's really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you!"
-The Doctor

"Before Man goes to the stars he should learn how to live on Earth."
-Clifford D. Simak

Jarhead0331

Quote from: W8taminute on January 17, 2019, 03:58:09 PM
Clearly if people are complaining that there is a lack of diplomatic options in this game are ignorant of the WH40K universe.  Don't they know that "in the future, there is only war"?

Perhaps they need to be elucidated on the subject by brother Kor Phaeron?

True, but this is a rather simplistic view of the universe and lore. With a little creativity they could make a fantastic 4x with interesting diplomacy set in the 40K universe. There is certainly diplomacy among the planetary governors and imperial authorities. What about the intricacies that take place between various groups within the Imperium? There are always dealings among the various Ordos of the Inquisition, Mechanicus groups, etc. Furthermore, while you won't find humanity negotiating terms with Orks or Tyranid, there are times when various deals will be brokered with races like the Eldar, in order to accomplish or further mysterious or common goals.

The opportunity for a universe spanning detailed 4X game based in the 40K universe is there...they just need to eXploit it...see what I did there?
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Gusington



слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

W8taminute

^^Saw what you did there!

Yes you are right but maybe the type of diplomacy you mention would fit a game that spanned the galaxy.  I'm not so sure you need it when dealing with just a single planet as in this game. 

Or the developer took the easy route and excluded diplomacy in Gladius for the sake of making an easier game to create. 
"You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend."

Romulan Commander to Kirk

Jarhead0331

Quote from: W8taminute on January 30, 2019, 11:35:53 AM
^^Saw what you did there!

Yes you are right but maybe the type of diplomacy you mention would fit a game that spanned the galaxy.  I'm not so sure you need it when dealing with just a single planet as in this game. 

Or the developer took the easy route and excluded diplomacy in Gladius for the sake of making an easier game to create.

Absolutely. When I found out that Gladius was being billed as a 4x, yet took place only on a single planet, I was dumbfounded. What a totally missed opportunity.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


JasonPratt

The Imperium shouldn't be fighting each other anyway, so if things have gone so wrong that ImpyGuards and Smurfmarines are shooting at each other then "diplomacy" might be pointless at a game-level. (Similar to the Dawn of War games which go out of their way to explain why on grand campaigns of the "Dark Crusade" and the "Soulstorm", the Imperial factions are fighting each other: at that point diplomacy has broken down and can't be reestablished without major oversight from central command.)

The Imperium wouldn't be negotiating with Nids, Necs, and Orks, in any case. (Nor would Nids and Necs; nor Necs and Orks; nor probably Nids and Orks except in the sense of Nids infiltrating the Orks via genestealer acolytes.)

But the game does allow teams, which breaks the lore pretty hard at that point. So... really, aside from having a campaign storyline, diplomacy either makes no sense or is unneeded, or can be considered established before the game by (crazy unloreish) team settings.

In short:



ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Jarhead0331

#39
^Disagree completely. There are so many different factions within the Imperium alone and they are in so many ways completely distinct and foreign to one another that some form of diplomacy entirely makes sense and would be great within the context of a complex 4x game. To put it into terms of a very simple example...even various Federal bureaus and agencies engage in negotiations with one another...the FBI, ATF, DEA, ICE.  They also engage in negotiations with State and local agencies, as well. They enter contracts, work out deals, etc.

I'm not sure why anyone would discourage this possibility from a gaming standpoint.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


JasonPratt

And they shoot each other to death if they don't work out deals or have conflicting orders!  :D

...oh, wait, they don't.

Of course "some form of diplomacy entirely makes sense" for Imperium groups, but only the teamwork diplomacy variety. If they're starting with that, it isn't likely to break down in the short term of the game. If they're starting at hostility to one another, enough to be shooting, then diplomacy per se between the groups has already catastrophically broken down, and must be sorted out at much higher levels which can order both sides to stand down.

If the Imperium groups, or the Necs groups, or the Ork groups, or the Nid groups, start out on each other's side (Team A being Nids and Nids, etc.), then I agree there ought to be some useful diplomacy options between them. Other 4x games have them: I'm pseudo-hot-seating a 2 v 6 player Age of Wonders game right now, where the two 'real' players send each other things to help each other out. If the local groups are hostile, then I don't see the point of diplomacy between them: they're either inherently hostile, or in the case of the Imperium their hostility indicates such a catastrophic breakdown (between zealots eager or paranoid to see other people as existential enemies anyway) that local diplomacy is pointless.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Jarhead0331

It would seem that intra-faction diplomacy would, for the most part make more sense, than would inter-faction diplomacy. In other words...Imperial factions can engage in diplomacy with other Imperial factions. Ork warbands engage in diplomacy with other Ork warbands. Eldar craftworlds engage in diplomacy with other eldar craftworlds, etc. etc.  Meanwhile, diplomacy between Eldar and Imperial forces would be much more limited and diplomacy between Imperial forces and a race such as the Tyranid would be entirely impossible.

Once again, creativity would really pay-off here...of course, with the 40K license, creativity and risk taking is something we rarely see.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


W8taminute

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 30, 2019, 03:06:08 PM
...

Once again, creativity would really pay-off here...of course, with the 40K license, creativity and risk taking is something we rarely see.

And the end result for us, the consumer, is a product that entertains us for a while and then gets shelved never to be played again because of the lack of creativity.  There is nothing about Gladius that makes it stand out from all the other civ type games other than it's set in the WH40K universe. 
"You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend."

Romulan Commander to Kirk

JasonPratt

Which isn't nothing, but so far I have to agree.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

MikeGER

#44
I like the lack of a big fancy pantsy diplomacy tree in this game. let's say in comparison to a Civ 6
Setting up factions as a team stranded on the isolated by Warp Storm planet in the game is enuf, IMHO
well, maybe the experience of the warp storm or drifting through it had even made some in charge of a stranded faction go real nuts

but i would like to read a Disclaimer-box with a wink so when a player set up an impossible alliance like this

"We don't know what experiment you are up for. This setup might be considered outside the lore of the WH40k universe by most fans of the franchise and may trigger unwanted feedback if public .  Heh, but its your game you paid for in hard currency so your sandbox mode house rules. We refrained to block any options. Enjoy your play"[/font]