Order of Battle: Pacific has now an official release date

[ComradeP]

Them packaging everything into a single multi-installer caused quite a bunch of people to get errors when installing, but it's working for me again.

As much as I like some of the ideas of the series, such as combat being less lethal, it can be very tiresome to chase around all those tiny units that survive a serious beating.

The resources are also very tight compared to a game like Panzer General/Panzer Corps. That's both good and bad. It's good because Panzer Corps in particular can be a bit on the easy side without penalties for the player, but it's bad because it means you often can't upgrade parts of your core forces whilst the AI tends to be ahead in the upgrade curve both in the equipment file availability dates (it gets the infantry types of a certain year of the war before you do) and in actual on-map availability.

Combine that with experience on the one hand being not all that important but on the other hand necessary to avoid serious losses, leading the player to using elite replacements whenever possible and you get a situation where it can be difficult to keep your force in good shape even on regular difficulty.

[FlickJax]

Coming to consoles - http://www.slitherine.com/news/2800/Order.of.Battle.is.coming.to.console!

[spelk]

 :bd:

[Grim.Reaper]

So with the current sale, decided to try and give this a go again......not sure I am feeling it but maybe I am missing something.

Example:

Playing a scenario, wiped out the majority of the enemy and claimed their cities/objectives.  Created an offensive line as I was making my way towards the next series of objectives, had a small gap in my line.  All of a sudden, a single enemy mobile unit came darting through my line, didn't stop, just went flying by.  That single unit basically just went and started reclaiming all the objectives I had captured, just basically hopping between them.  Didn't garrison anything, just went back and forth between them, which I envision was just the computer trying to "win the game" by only focusing on capturing the objective long enough and moving on.

Although I fully understand they are doing it to get the "points" to win, just felt very gamey and unrealistic.  If the CPU is really only programmed to claim objectives (even if just one unit vs a force) vs use any assemblence of reality to do so, likely still not a game for me.  Becomes too much of a puzzle but maybe that is what attracts people to this game.

Too bad as I was going to impulsive buy all the DLC:)

[The_Admiral]

Coming to consoles - http://www.slitherine.com/news/2800/Order.of.Battle.is.coming.to.console!

hum? Kinda strange, was announced for "later this spring", anybody knows where it went?
Actually this was a very interesting move and I was very curious about knowing how it performed on that new market...

Edit: ah, found a comment in the Slitherine forums. Still in the works.
I wish them luck, very much looking forward to it.

[airboy]

So with the current sale, decided to try and give this a go again......not sure I am feeling it but maybe I am missing something.

Example:

Playing a scenario, wiped out the majority of the enemy and claimed their cities/objectives.  Created an offensive line as I was making my way towards the next series of objectives, had a small gap in my line.  All of a sudden, a single enemy mobile unit came darting through my line, didn't stop, just went flying by.  That single unit basically just went and started reclaiming all the objectives I had captured, just basically hopping between them.  Didn't garrison anything, just went back and forth between them, which I envision was just the computer trying to "win the game" by only focusing on capturing the objective long enough and moving on.

Although I fully understand they are doing it to get the "points" to win, just felt very gamey and unrealistic.  If the CPU is really only programmed to claim objectives (even if just one unit vs a force) vs use any assemblence of reality to do so, likely still not a game for me.  Becomes too much of a puzzle but maybe that is what attracts people to this game.

Too bad as I was going to impulsive buy all the DLC:)

That happens in some scenarios.  What is far more common is the AI aggressively isolating your units from supply.  If you don't get them back into supply during your move the AI usually kills them off.

I've played all of the Order of Battle releases including the first 9 scenarios in Red Star.  The Germans in Red Star have the best offense I've seen in any of the series.  Defensively, the AI is good throughout the series.  The AI is very reactive on defense - far better than most AIs.  I've had units cut off in counter-attacks more in this series than any other.  And OOB supply is critical.

The AI throughout the series is better at infiltration on offense than anything else I've seen.  In Red Star the Germans have very good coordinated offense including picking off wounded units, effectively withdrawing their wounded units for refit, and the best use of AI aircraft to kill your fleeing weakened aircraft I've seen.  In contrast, the Russian Offense in the Winter War expansion was often pretty dumb.  But in the programmers defense the Russians in that war initially were dumb on offense.

What is realistic is recon units don't need supply - but they also cannot capture key points or change territory boundaries.  Having a scout unit slip through is no big deal unless they hit your parked aircraft.

[Grim.Reaper]

What is realistic is recon units don't need supply - but they also cannot capture key points or change territory boundaries.  Having a scout unit slip through is no big deal unless they hit your parked aircraft.

In my case, the unit was armor (vs what I would consider recon--but maybe I am wrong) that slipped through....the fact it slipped through the lines really wasn't my concern.  The fact that unit simply went bouncing objective to objective just for the sake of getting the points was more of my concern.  It's simple logic was to pass through an objective, claim it and move on and continue to bounce as they needed to reclaim.  Just really didn't make any sense since I far out numbered his single unit and had zero chance of success...except with its hope it would have claimed enough objectives just before the timer expired.

Rest of the game seems decent enough, but if it ultimately uses these kind of gamey tactics, just might not be for me.

[airboy]

What is realistic is recon units don't need supply - but they also cannot capture key points or change territory boundaries.  Having a scout unit slip through is no big deal unless they hit your parked aircraft.

In my case, the unit was armor (vs what I would consider recon--but maybe I am wrong) that slipped through....the fact it slipped through the lines really wasn't my concern.  The fact that unit simply went bouncing objective to objective just for the sake of getting the points was more of my concern.  It's simple logic was to pass through an objective, claim it and move on and continue to bounce as they needed to reclaim.  Just really didn't make any sense since I far out numbered his single unit and had zero chance of success...except with its hope it would have claimed enough objectives just before the timer expired.

Rest of the game seems decent enough, but if it ultimately uses these kind of gamey tactics, just might not be for me.

Unless I'm utterly hanging on by the skin of my teeth - I will not replace one of my killed units and save the reinforcement command points.  I use this to place a replacement unit ahead of a weak, rampaging unit in my rear.  My unit usually gets surprise, heavy wound/kill and then mops up.  That also forces me to keep a reserve which is usually a good idea.

[Grim.Reaper]

Yep, that is one way to handle it....but my overall fear is like the turn or so before the end game, basically the AI will send out all their units in a last second grab of objective points just for the sake of getting the points versus any real logical reason. 

[airboy]

Yep, that is one way to handle it....but my overall fear is like the turn or so before the end game, basically the AI will send out all their units in a last second grab of objective points just for the sake of getting the points versus any real logical reason.

The AI moves when it sees an opportunity.  Never seen it save a rush for the last turn if the opportunity was there earlier. 

If you left a key hex unguarded and within one move of the front lines and lose on the last turn as a result that was poor tactics on your part and not a game design flaw.

[airboy]

Order of Battle Red Star was released on the 8th. 

I've finished everything but the last scenario - defense of Moscow.  This has been one of the better if not the best release so far.  The game has worked smoothly.  The AI is much better on attack.  There was one weird visual glitch that happened twice that I'll save for a review.  But the glitch was funny, rare, and did not influence game play.

[Grim.Reaper]

Yep, that is one way to handle it....but my overall fear is like the turn or so before the end game, basically the AI will send out all their units in a last second grab of objective points just for the sake of getting the points versus any real logical reason.

The AI moves when it sees an opportunity.  Never seen it save a rush for the last turn if the opportunity was there earlier. 

If you left a key hex unguarded and within one move of the front lines and lose on the last turn as a result that was poor tactics on your part and not a game design flaw.

I disagree.....it's not a matter of one move away.  I have completely destroyed the enemy forces in the south and captured all the objectives.  My force is overwhelming and have moved up north to address the next set of objectives.  This single armor unit simply darts between my line for a mad dash to claim those objective points I claimed.  Then bounces between them all and claims it for themselves in an effort to just get points before a "timer" expires?  Your telling me in a battle like this where I have overwhelming superiority on the field and a single unit simply staying long enough in an objective to "get Points" would be enough for them to claim victory in the battle?  Even though I command the field from every aspect?  So them simply driving from city to city is enough regardless of the realistic situation?

Any way, we will agree to disagree on this..I know you like the game and that's fine...nothing against that.  But for me, feels very "gamey" vs realistic.  Just my opinion.

[airboy]

What you describe would be annoying.  But this is the first time you have given enough description to understand what is going on. 

When something similar has happened to me - usually when I have to be on offense without enough units to hold a full line I will:
1] Hold back 3 command points to spawn an infantry unit as needed for an emergency
or
2] Toss a tactical air unit back to smash it and use an almost destroyed unit to reclaim the victory hexes.

A weakened armor unit running around behind the lines is out of supply until 3 turns pass on a captured supply point.  Nailing a straggler is usually not that hard unless you have a fully committed force all away from the theater - as you described happened to you.

But I get your point on this.  Problem is, almost all wargames that use victory hexes and a semi-decent AI will run into this situation.  It is a lot worse in games like PanzerCorps that lack supply rules.

[Grim.Reaper]

thought i had said roughly the sam thing 3 or 4 times:)

i do appreciate your comments and i know there may be a decent game under the hood, but i'll have to think about whether i can overlook something like this.  just doesn't feel right on first look.

[airboy]

I'm probably being slow.  Had a sleep deficit over the last two weeks when my wife went suddenly deaf in one ear.  About 99% likely her hearing in that ear is gone forever.  She had horrible vertigo initially - but her body has been learning to compensate for having only one functioning balance mechanism.  Cause is unknown.  Rare problem (about 5 in 100,000 get it), but with her symptoms it is almost always permanent, total hearing loss.  Had to take her to a lot of doctor appointments and she is on a massive steroid dose which gives her roid rage and hot flashes.