Battletech is back!!!

[SirAndrewD]

Oh. So they changed things. :(

Yes, initiative is based on Mech weight and can be modified by actions or pilot abilities.   It works, I feel it's more balanced in some ways.  It's not pure tabletop though.

[Nefaro]

Oh. So they changed things. :(

It still alternates one-by-one.  It is just separated into five different phases generally dictated by mech size class.  The smaller the class, the earlier they can act compared to the larger size classes.

So if one player had 3 light mechs and the other had only 1, then the first player would activate one mech, then the other, then the guy with the extras would finish those in a row before the phase moved up to the next larger class (Medium).

There is supposed to be mechwarrior skill(s) that can improve it by at least one.  So after getting such a skill for a pilot in a Heavy mech, for example, it would act in the same phase as the Mediums - effectively before any of the similarly sized Heavies.

[Jarhead0331]

And what's your plan when he punches you in the face?

Trick question...everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

[sandman2575]

I have already gotten Dekker killed. :)

+1

Now I'm stuck with that other guy in the Locust. I'm surprised he's survived a few missions at all. His sole purpose is to hop around, tagging enemies with Sensor Lock, and keep out of sight. He's all Jump-jets.

Good tips. thanks.

[Gusington]

Flamethrowers are included here?

[Barthheart]

Yep as melee weapons.  >:D

[Gusington]

That is...quite delicious.

[bboyer66]

Are we sure your character cant die?  Mine just spent 53 days in the infirmary after being injured from a lucky headshot.

When my character got hurt, I ran 2 small mechs and 2 mediums. You must get the skill that gives you an extra evasion pip for your small mechs. As long as you keep them sprinting around, they do not take that much damage. Also get the sensor lock skill ASAP.  The small mechs are also great at stomping on all the little tanks you come across in the easier mission, and instant killing them.

Toughest mech I have come across so far was a Wolverine. That thing could really take a pounding. Was able to salvage a piece of him, so I guess 2 more and I will be able to build my own.

[bbmike]

Gameplay sounds a lot like the new XCom games.

[Jarhead0331]

I'm enjoying the game overall, but I struggle with the state of technology so far in the future. In many ways its extremely archaic and mechs, while being described as extremely advanced, seem to be lacking a lot of basic features and capabilities I would expect them to have.  I really have to suspend my disbelief here.

No ECM as standard equipment? No stealth capability? How about active or optical camouflage that can be countered with thermal or IR sensors? Why is something as simple as "sensor lock" a pilot skill, as opposed to something that comes standard with a radar or sensor suite?

I'm finding that strategic possibilities and diversity of tactics are lacking since the tech is just so basic. These things are essentially armored buckets with guns.     

[Capn Darwin]

X-Com combat is far more dynamic than what you have in Battletech. No opportunity or reaction fire for starters. It's all on the initiative system per turn. It's very much a chess game of getting in the best position to attack while attempting to minimize incoming damage. I'm also not so big on the fact that you can just run behind a Mech and blast it in the back. Then have that Mech run behind you on its turn. Rinse and repeat when close in. This game may have faired better in a wego setup, but I get its need to match the board game mechanics. Still kind of fun. Need to play more when I can find the time.

[bboyer66]

I'm enjoying the game overall, but I struggle with the state of technology so far in the future. In many ways its extremely archaic and mechs, while being described as extremely advanced, seem to be lacking a lot of basic features and capabilities I would expect them to have.  I really have to suspend my disbelief here.

No ECM as standard equipment? No stealth capability? How about active or optical camouflage that can be countered with thermal or IR sensors? Why is something as simple as "sensor lock" a pilot skill, as opposed to something that comes standard with a radar or sensor suite?

I'm finding that strategic possibilities and diversity of tactics are lacking since the tech is just so basic. These things are essentially armored buckets with guns.   

This is Paradox, you have most likely just layed out all their expansion pack plans !!!

[bobarossa]

From Battletech update #26 on turn order (early 2016; sorry the formatting didn't copy):

Translating Tabletop
Whenever I'm at a game convention, I'm always asked, "Why don't you just port the BattleTech tabletop rules to the computer? They've worked great for 30 years!" For the answer, let's start with the obvious - tabletop games have the enormous benefit of in-person social interaction. Being around the table with your friends is entertaining all by itself and taking more time to resolve game results is not necessarily a negative. On the other hand, waiting for a remote opponent in an online game can be frustrating at worst and boring at best. Even if your opponent is your best friend, it's just not the same as being the table together.

Beyond social interaction, another key difference between tabletop and computer games is how you absorb information. For example, during a tabletop game, every move and every die roll you make (along with all the moves and die rolls of your opponents) happen at a speed that allows you to process that information. And don't underestimate the tactile and social fun of rolling dice or the visceral feeling of filling in armor boxes on a 'Mech's record sheet. It is the tactile power of those experiences that helps us understand and retain the game information conveyed during the event.

BattleTech's turn order is a good example of a tabletop design element that doesn't port well to the computer. The tabletop design attempts to reflect the fictional reality of 'Mechs and vehicles moving and shooting simultaneously by splitting movement and combat into two different phases. Movement order is based on initiative, and then alternated between players. Combat is resolved simultaneously - players take turns rolling damage, and then that damage all takes effect at the same time. This works great for tabletop, where it's easy to accept the nonlinear abstraction. Even though my attack may have destroyed your 'Mech, I know you'll still get to roll for its damage to mine. This is much harder to present on screen, where a certain linearity of events is expected!

So, now that you understand the basic design challenge, we'll start where HBS always starts - at the goal level.

Design Goals
Our design process starts with explicitly stating the goals for every system, so that we have a way of evaluating if the system design is not just "cool" but most importantly achieves its design criteria. The design goals that impact the turn order system are:

Fluid play in both singleplayer and multiplayer game modes - This is actually a bigger deal than you would think because our emotional reactions to a turn order system are quite different with a computer opponent that takes zero time to make a decision and a human who takes considerably more than zero time.
Make Light 'Mechs useful and versatile - Light 'Mechs were included in the game to be used as scouts, flankers, and forward observers. Historically, these roles have appeared in BT fiction more than in game play, so one of our major goals is to make Light 'Mechs really useful.
Don't overwhelm me with information - BattleTech is a very information heavy game. Previous computer / video games have handled this in one of two ways: greatly simplify the game, or overwhelm the player with too much information. We want to find a balance that allows us to maintain the depth of the simulation while making sure that the information provided is digestible and actionable.
Provide me visceral feedback on my actions - When you perform an action you should see a satisfying result to that action, and most importantly you should understand the results of the action.
It's gotta feel like BattleTech! - This one might seem obvious, but it's important to make it explicit - the results of the turn order system should feel like BattleTech.
Rapid Prototyping
Working from an established set of design goals for a system, we like to move directly into rapid prototyping. As designers, it's always tempting to engage in lengthy debates, waxing poetic about the merits of different approaches, but we've found that it's by far more effective to simply try out each compelling idea! Our designers and engineers jump right into Unity to quickly create crude working versions of design concepts that we can play right away. These prototypes look ugly, and are missing a lot of bells and whistles, but they're enough for us to really get a feel for how the design element plays in both singleplayer and multiplayer scenarios.

This approach has made working on BATTLETECH a great deal of fun for for the entire team as we can all discuss the merits of each approach from an informed position. Even more importantly, the rapid prototyping methodology has allowed us to vet the game design many months before a fully architected code base would allow us to.

We have built and played the hell out of seven (7!) different approaches to turn order, from a completely linear XCOM-like system to a completely simultaneous action system with many variations in between. Since a simultaneous action approach is a natural one to gravitate to for BattleTech, I'm going to take some time to outline how those particular prototypes went in a bit of detail.

Our first simultaneous action prototype was one in which players plotted both movement and combat secretly and then watched as the round unfolded. The biggest issue with this prototype turned out to be with targeting and weapon selections for each 'Mech. In the prototype, players could target enemies with specific weapons while plotting their movements and then, during a simultaneous resolution phase, they'd see their choices play out in real-time action.

Sound great, doesn't it? Unfortunately, things often went very differently than folks anticipated. Watching everyone's plans going awry is supposed to be part of the fun of a simultaneous action system but instead, players felt frustrated watching one of their MechWarriors slavishly waiting to shoot their designated target rather than unloading in the rear armor of an enemy 'Mech that wandered right into the line-of-fire. To compensate, we started to give the MechWarriors the ability to override the player's targeting and weapon selections in specific circumstances and... eventually it just started feeling like the player was losing control of critical decisions. So much for Simultaneous Action Prototype #1!

Our next attempt at simultaneous action was to break the round into two phases, Movement and Combat - with both phases being revealed simultaneously. The idea was that player would plot movement for all their 'Mechs and then everyone's movements would be revealed simultaneously. The players could then use a scrollbar like a video "scrubber" to roll time backwards and forwards to determine when to fire during each 'Mech's movement, who the target was, and which weapons would fire. This prototype was interesting, and returned complete control to the player, but was a slow and laborious system to interact with.

Both of our simultaneous action solutions also really failed on the information overload and visceral feedback goals I mentioned above. Because so much happened so quickly, you often found yourself needing to dive into each 'Mech's data after the action just to understand what happened in the previous round. As you can imagine, that wasn't very fun. The other goal these prototypes failed at was actually the most important - they felt like you were commanding fighter planes, not BattleMechs. They didn't feel like BattleTech.

I won't take you through the pros and cons of all seven Turn Order prototypes we built and played the hell out of and instead cut to the chase by introducing you to the turn order system we finally embraced and are building the game around.

So - Where Did We End Up?
Here's the basics:

Each weight class of 'Mech has an Initiative value. Light 'Mechs are the fastest, with an Initiative of 4 and assaults are the slowest, with an Initiative of 1.
Combat rounds are divided into 5 Phases, counting down from 5 to 1. 'Mechs are allowed to act during the Phase that matches their Initiative. (That 5th Phase is the province of extremely skilled MechWarriors piloting Light 'Mechs.)
Each Phase, each side takes turns choosing a 'Mech to Activate. When a Mech is Activated, it can both move and then fire its weapons. However, once the 'Mech fires, its turn is over and it can't act again until the next Round of combat.
After you Activate a 'Mech and take a turn, the game attempts to give the next action to the other side. If the enemy has units available to use in the current Phase, they get the opportunity to activate one of them. If, on the other hand, they have no more units they can activate in the phase, and you do, you'll get to go again.
This means that if you and your opponent are both using full lances of assault 'Mechs, every Round will be pretty predictable: You'll go, then your opponent will go, and so forth until all eight 'Mechs have been Activated and have taken a turn.
When the game finishes counting down Initiative values and Phase 1 units have taken their turn, the Round ends. The Phase counter resets to 5, and every 'Mech is ready to act again.
And now the really cool part:

We think this is a neat system because it reinforces and distinguishes between the different weight classes of 'Mechs - but the place where it really becomes really interesting is when you start reserving 'Mechs' Phases for use later in the Round.

Any 'Mech that isn't an assault can be held in reserve when its turn to act comes up. That temporarily sets its Initiative Value one lower. So a Light 'Mech that normally acts in Phase 4 will instead act in Phase 3.

With this system, you can keep reserving your 'Mechs' actions, holding an entire lance of 'Mechs until Phase 1, if you wanted to. 

What's so interesting about reserving actions? First of all, consider the case of a whole lance of Light and medium 'Mechs being reserved until Phase 1, where they'll get to act right at the end of a Round. Then, when the round ends and a new Round starts, they'll immediately get to act again in Phases 4 and 3! (This tactic isn't theoretical - in a recent battle, I snuck up behind our Lead Designer Kevin's Centurion with a Jenner I'd reserved to Phase 1. Then, on Phase 4 of the next Round I got to make a full alpha strike right into his back armor.)

As you'd guess, there's also a lot of value in using this tactic to locally outnumber an opponent. You want your engagements to be uneven in your favor, and you want to be able to fall back from any engagement in which you're outnumbered. Focusing your forces in one spot when your enemy is spread out is right out of Sun Tzu.

Our initiative system, which allows you to reserve units, means you can locally outnumber your enemy in time as well as space. If you can take three actions in a row, and all three actions are effective fire on a target with no chance for it to respond by moving or returning fire... you've essentially made part of the turn a 3-on-1 battle.

Conversely, reserving your faster 'Mechs to break up long sequences of enemy action with opportunities to respond can be useful in preventing your own forces from becoming focus-fired.

We're reinforcing the role of Light 'Mechs in other ways, but this system is a significant component of their value. Light 'Mechs get to choose where and when they engage, and if used carefully can be exactly the tool you need to get out of a bad situation. Heavy and assault 'Mechs pack a much bigger punch, but the tradeoff is that they're inherently more predictable - and thus are more often reacting than acting.

The Results
This turn order system is the one that made us immediately say, "Yes, that feels like BattleTech." (Randall Bills, who's in charge of BattleTech at Catalyst Game Labs, had the same reaction, which is obviously a good sign!) It captures the feeling of the world in that 'Mechs feel like 'Mechs, not aircraft or stationary gun platforms. It really helped to emphasise the difference between the various weight classes of 'Mechs. The tactical choices are interesting and the results are immediate and understandable.

And this model also clearly fulfilled all of our design goals from above:

Fluid play in both singleplayer and multiplayer game modes - Because control frequently passes back and forth in this model, singleplayer flows smoothly while still giving the player a variety of tactical options and there's almost always something to watch or do in multiplayer.
Make Light 'Mechs useful and versatile - As explained above, this system gives Light 'Mechs an inherent initiative advantage which can be used in many different ways.
Don't overwhelm me with information - Focusing on moving only one unit at a time, and allowing both sides to clearly see the results of JUST that action, really helped focus the amount of information being presented to the player on a moment-to-moment basis - all the complexity of BattleTech movement and attacks is still there, but now it's being presented in a very digestible way.
Provide me visceral feedback on my actions - Plotting a 'Mech's action and immediately seeing the damage done by your attack is really satisfying!
It's gotta feel like BattleTech - While this admittedly a subjective criteria, this turn-order model immediately elicited this response with the team.

[SirAndrewD]

I'm enjoying the game overall, but I struggle with the state of technology so far in the future. In many ways its extremely archaic and mechs, while being described as extremely advanced, seem to be lacking a lot of basic features and capabilities I would expect them to have.  I really have to suspend my disbelief here.

No ECM as standard equipment? No stealth capability? How about active or optical camouflage that can be countered with thermal or IR sensors? Why is something as simple as "sensor lock" a pilot skill, as opposed to something that comes standard with a radar or sensor suite?

I'm finding that strategic possibilities and diversity of tactics are lacking since the tech is just so basic. These things are essentially armored buckets with guns.   

They chose to set the game in 3025.  Following the story means all that tech was lost in the first two succession wars.

The Mechs of that era are armored buckets with guns.  Most are 200 year old hand me downs.

This is where the Battletech story becomes important.  The succession wars plunged the Inner Sphere into a dark age.  Most planets operate at 20th Century or earlier tech levels. 

Comstar made the problem worse by hoarding tech and having their secret service ROM kill off or kidnap scientists.

Things change with the recovery of the Helm Memory Core in 3045 which has specs for a lot of lostech.

Things change more with the Clan Invasion in 3056. 

The Clan Mechs are very advanced with cool energy weapons, advanced ECM, guided weapons, double heat sinks,  advanced sensors etc

Part of what makes that story interesting is how outmatched the Great Houses are at the start of it.

[Jarhead0331]

^I can appreciate all that, but it still sort of defies credulity. I mean, ships that are capable of long distance space travel, warp jumps, etc., and they have the expertise to maintain and build from scrap these walking behemoths, but can't figure out simple ECM and guidance for weapons? It still sort of doesn't make much sense to me, but I can certainly look past it. I also like the idea of a technological dark age caused by a decades long war of cataclysmic proportions.