My solution to the Syria problem is redo Germany 1945. You cannot get the Russians out without a fight, so let them control a region like East Germany. The EU can control a region bordering Turkey. The US can control a region bordering Israel.
Thoughts? Other ideas?
(mod edit to consolidate threads under 1 title)
The problem with that is Germany had surrendered in 1945 in a traditional way. No one in Syria will surrender that way and until that happens, there is no control.
You are saying nobody wants to put their troops in that shithole? Russia is already doing it. If the US and the EU does not move in, Russia alone will dictate what happens after fighting Isis.
What incentive do the Russians or the Syrians have to allow this - even if any other country wanted to give it a go?
They would take the opportunity to cement their control of a Med region, with port, for 2-3 generations. Assad they would throw from the window if they could take direct control of a region. Being right beside EU and US regions, they cannot make it a missile base. The threat is minimal, with missiles being easy energy weapon targets at launch.
I think it's way to early to declare the Russian intervention into Syria a success. They could end up in a protracted conflict like the US did in Iraq.
Also, given the current presidents inept handling of foreign policy, I don't think I want him taking on something like this.
I didn't say no one wants to put their troops in Syria - like you said they (Russia) already have. But having troops there and having 'control' are very different. And 'after ISIS' has the potential to be very similar to 'during ISIS' and just as bad as 'before ISIS.'
Both replies seem very reasonable to me.
I found an old NYT article yesterday evening, from a few years back, talking about rejigging the whole middle East to their tribal regions to reduce conflict. It was not talking about imposed externally, just the natural tendencies. Very interesting. If I find it again, I will link it here.
That was easy, it was still in my history.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/opinion/sunday/imagining-a-remapped-middle-east.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
^I definitely want to read that when I get the chance.
Even if it were divided up along majority tribal lines, there would still be conflict regarding areas which each tribe thinks they should own. Plus the inevitable imbalance, or perceived imbalance, of resulting resource distribution. Inevitable minority populations backed by force from new neighboring states. Etc.
It could cause as much conflict as it may solve.
I believe that is called "a clusterf*ck" by those in the know.
Biggs, weren't you in favor of the US getting out of Iraq. Why would you advocate for getting out then but not just going back in now, but staying.
Quote from: OJsDad on September 20, 2015, 12:35:49 PM
Biggs, weren't you in favor of the US getting out of Iraq. Why would you advocate for getting out then but not just going back in now, but staying.
There was no relation between Iraq and 9/11, which was masterminded by a Saudi, out of Afghanistan. The neocons wanted Iraq as a start of planted democracy, which would spread, while allowing energy companies to go in to make big profits.
In the current case of Syria, the people are leaving to get to a western lifestyle. If social unrest spreads over the EU, it is a big NATO problem. Therefore I think it is better to set up a region of EU control in Syria, then move those migrants into it. Let those that want the current regime go to a Russian region. Let the US region protect Isreal's flank, to offset the deal with Iran. It also lets the US keep cleaning out ISIS from Iraq.
We cannot go back to the dark ages with Isis. It is a bigger threat to the west than Saddam ever was.
I would say we're far from certain that those fleeing to Europe want a "western lifestyle". We already see many that came to Europe and the US want those countries to adapt to their beliefs.
You may have been opposed to the US going into Iraq to start with, but, as many have pointed out, pulling out to soon has proven to be a disaster. Now you want to go back in with an even more confused and limited scope. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-MJF5ydRP01I%2FVfsSA67qunI%2FAAAAAAAAEMI%2FHD77qFShsik%2Fs1600%2FSyrian%252BRegime%252BMap.png&hash=0ae127e0b48eedc0038a18307900676471bc9517)
Syria isn't ready for peace yet, too many players on the board right now.
Deir es Zor reminds me of Stalingrad. Just an airport sitting in the middle of nowhere.
Quote from: OJsDad on September 20, 2015, 06:05:53 PM
I would say we're far from certain that those fleeing to Europe want a "western lifestyle". We already see many that came to Europe and the US want those countries to adapt to their beliefs.
You may have been opposed to the US going into Iraq to start with, but, as many have pointed out, pulling out to soon has proven to be a disaster. Now you want to go back in with an even more confused and limited scope. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
Actually, I said at the beginning that Iraq would have to be held for generations for cultural change to take effect.
If you cannot do that then it was better to get out.
What you have now is a volume much greater than refugee rules were meant for. It will become an occupation of Europe. The numbers are big enough to e called an army, and many of them are trained fighters.
I do not see that as working. Any solution has to be for those people to get a normal life in their own country.
Do you have any alternative idea?
The simplest way to look at it is:
At this point, you can occupy Syria and Libya, or they will occupy you. Either way, you will have to pay for it.
As a practical matter, the proposal cannot work without an agreement by Israel to let someone, anyone, presumably the US, hold that Syrian territory instead of Israel.
And I doubt that's ever going to happen. Israel has ancient cultural reasons, still relevant to them, to want land as far north as Damascus (and in modern Lebanon as far north as ancient Tyre and Sidon), just like they want the West Bank of the Jordan River.
I don't see them accepting anyone else's control over the area between their current border and Damascus, even the US's (which will be quite pointless anyway unless we make it at least US official territory with the rights granted by that designation and at least theoretical possibility of becoming one of the United States -- which would trigger all kinds of United Nations protest and armed conflict against the threat of a truly imperialistic US).
So that area would have to be controlled by Israel, given to it by whom? The UN? The US? Triggering massive Middle Eastern retaliation against the 'lackeys of Israel'. And then north of that the partition begins with the US seizing and claiming permanent territory (since unlike West Germany or Japan post-WW2 there is no solid political and cultural infrastructure to promote for handing back over once stability has been achieved), also triggering not only a militant fury from practically everyone not in the First World but even from the United Nations.
In other words, the plan only works if everyone is happy about Israel getting Damascus, and the US getting a Middle Eastern proto-state. And no one anywhere is going to be on board with this, except (arguably) Israel. (And maybe not even them. Nor the general US population for that matter.)
What was the status of Germany and Japan after WWII? They were not set up a permanent US territory.
I think the security situation for Israel is greatly simplified with the US and Jordan borders. They can then focus on the tunnels from Egypt and the west bank. That is plenty to worry about.
There is no reason Israeli Muslims ( there are quite a few) could not move to the US controlled region as well as moderate Syrians. Even some American Jews. Later it could be turned over as an independent, multi-ethnic State.
Any opinions from our EU based forum members?
I really doubt that anyone, regardless of their background, could be convinced to move over there unless by gunpoint. I say this as an Anerican jew.
Me either.
So everyone is happy to let the EU become half like the middle East? Is that the best option?
listening to the radio today there isnt one country thats prepared to stand up and say 'NO WAY' west of Hungary
The UK did, but theres not much you can do when the weeping masses huddle over a picture of a dead boy on the beach like its the first and last infant tragedy in the world
IMHO the idiotic, i cant actually type what i want here, liberalist stupidity of the German government in throwing open its doors and saying 'come, come to Germany' is the reason masses are crossing borders to get there - you fkng asked for it Merkl you really did, now you fix it and stop whining about how the rest of Europe wont do their bit
:knuppel2:
Guilt has really messed with German politics.
What would be the Muslim reaction if a million Christians per year started taking up residence in Saudi? Methinks they would be royally pissed.
Tolerance seems to be a one way street.
Not one 'stable' Middle eastern or gulf state country will let them in
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 21, 2015, 03:51:58 PM
you fkng asked for it Merkl you really did, now you fix it and stop whining about how the rest of Europe wont do their bit
+1
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Quote from: Atilla60 on September 22, 2015, 08:53:54 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 21, 2015, 03:51:58 PM
you fkng asked for it Merkl you really did, now you fix it and stop whining about how the rest of Europe wont do their bit
+1
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And that's the best case scenario.
The Russkies have put a hefty amount of air power into Syria
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/su-25-frogfoots-and-su-24-fencers-arrive-at-russias-bur-1732201932
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on September 21, 2015, 12:32:00 PM
What was the status of Germany and Japan after WWII? They were not set up a permanent US territory.
Quote from: JasonPrattunlike West Germany or Japan post-WW2 there is no solid political and cultural infrastructure to promote for handing back over once stability has been achieved
This is a huge problem. It was a huge problem in Iraq, too -- and we're seeing the results of that problem playing out now.
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 21, 2015, 03:51:58 PM
The UK did, but theres not much you can do when the weeping masses huddle over a picture of a dead boy on the beach like its the first and last infant tragedy in the world
And who later turns out to be the son of a trafficker who lived safely in Turkey for 3 years - the hypocrite! (It's sad about the boy, but it illustrates how the media are manipulating what is shown!).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3233802/Second-passenger-claims-Aylan-Kurdi-s-father-driving-boat-son-died-working-people-smugglers.html
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/europes-migrant-crisis/migrant-crisis-father-of-dead-toddler-a-people-smuggler/story-fnws9k7b-1227523338355?sv=5b4a6377bbe3617094aa9e0253e3bbbf
Here's an idea...how about we round up and ship off The Media to the Mid East and then put the migrants in their place. Everyone wins.
Quote from: Gusington on September 22, 2015, 06:17:34 PM
Here's an idea...how about we round up and ship off The Media to the Mid East and then put the migrants in their place. Everyone wins.
I think we have winner!
I should be Viceroy of the EU. I would make everything more gooder. Like dissolving the EU, for starters.
What would you replace it with? The Holy Roman Empire 2.0?
Quote from: Staggerwing on September 22, 2015, 09:28:01 PM
What would you replace it with? The Holy Roman Empire 2.0?
why would it need to be replaced. The European countries has existed for 1000 of years before EU and would exist for another 1000 year after.
Just go back to a pure trade agreement and be done with the confederate states of germany we see today.
Quote from: jejo68 on September 23, 2015, 12:32:33 AM
Quote from: Staggerwing on September 22, 2015, 09:28:01 PM
What would you replace it with? The Holy Roman Empire 2.0?
why would it need to be replaced. The European countries has existed for 1000 of years before EU and would exist for another 1000 year after.
Just go back to a pure trade agreement and be done with the confederate states of germany we see today.
+1000! And then some... O0
The whole EU institution now is just one Federalist mission creep, with the EU remaining as unaccountable as ever. Why anyone should obey their rules baffles me, after all they have no democratic legitimacy, and the European Parliament is not a real Parliament, but a rubber stamping office with little, if any, debate on the "laws" they pass. I cannot wait for our referendum to leave the EU, although if we vote to leave then no doubt they'll keep doing referenda like in France and Ireland until they get the result they want. It's not surprising that the Russian dissident Vladimir Bukhovsky likens the EU Commission to the Soviet Politburo!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G81S4XtEBXw
Quote from: Gusington on September 22, 2015, 09:22:25 PM
I should be Viceroy of the EU. I would make everything more gooder. Like dissolving the EU, for starters.
You should go for it! Even if you were completely incompetent (which I know you're not) you'd still look like an inspired genius compared to the blinkered muppets "running" :2funny: the EU. O0
Quote from: Boggit on September 23, 2015, 06:09:50 AM
Quote from: Gusington on September 22, 2015, 09:22:25 PM
I should be Viceroy of the EU. I would make everything more gooder. Like dissolving the EU, for starters.
You should go for it! Even if you were completely incompetent (which I know you're not) you'd still look like an inspired genius compared to the blinkered muppets "running" :2funny: the EU. O0
Here in Denmark the EU has long been affectionally known as EUSSR, but lately people are starting to call it confederate state of germany.
I usually don't agree with Jejo but when I do it's usually about the EU. Maybe the nations of Europe really have learned from past mistakes and don't need a 'higher authority' to keep them from destroying each other. Sorry for the OT.
Quote from: Staggerwing on September 22, 2015, 09:28:01 PM
What would you replace it with? The Holy Roman Empire 2.0?
There's a lot to say for the Habsburgs. Most of it isn't good, but there's a lot to say...
I have it on good authority that there are talks going on within the US Government now about the US doing it's "fair share" in regard to the refugees and airlifting some number of them here.
Does "fair share" = more than 10,000?
A chicken in every pot!
Quote from: Gusington on September 23, 2015, 07:16:07 PM
Does "fair share" = more than 10,000?
Not entirely sure. The information I have came from a briefing to a large Federal agency that might be called on to build some facilities to house the "fair share." So, sounds like more than a family or two.
I have the impression that this was more planning than execution at this point.
We already have our "fair share" of illegals. Until we get those 12+ million sorted out, Europe can keep million or so.
Maybe the men fleeing should stand up an fight for the freedom they claim to want so badly.
We have a winner there Bison!
Quote from: Bison on September 23, 2015, 08:47:38 PM
Maybe the men fleeing should stand up an fight for the freedom they claim to want so badly.
why should they when they can come to europe and get lifelong social benefits.
The news today says 4 million have left Syria alone. So Europe can expect a good 5 million this year. How the F do you suddenly take care of this kind of volume?
Scotland is empty above Inverness - and there's tonnes of islands too, you want peace and safety from oppression? Here's your own island, here's a spade and some bricks - no one said your new life came with running water and central heating - so build it or go home
Quote from: jejo68 on September 24, 2015, 12:33:20 AM
Quote from: Bison on September 23, 2015, 08:47:38 PM
Maybe the men fleeing should stand up an fight for the freedom they claim to want so badly.
why should they when they can come to europe and get lifelong social benefits.
Thank Merkel and the PC leftists you all have let run Europe. Don't worry we are hell bent on destroying ourselves in the someway here too.
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 24, 2015, 01:56:08 AM
Scotland is empty above Inverness - and there's tonnes of islands too, you want peace and safety from oppression? Here's your own island, here's a spade and some bricks - no one said your new life came with running water and central heating - so build it or go home
And as the SNP are so in favour of taking in the colonists, let them go where UCG says and everyone will be happy. ;D
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 24, 2015, 01:56:08 AM
Scotland is empty above Inverness - and there's tonnes of islands too, you want peace and safety from oppression? Here's your own island, here's a spade and some bricks - no one said your new life came with running water and central heating - so build it or go home
Hmmm. Reminds me of a Star Trek movie...
Quote from: LongBlade on September 24, 2015, 09:11:08 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 24, 2015, 01:56:08 AM
Scotland is empty above Inverness - and there's tonnes of islands too, you want peace and safety from oppression? Here's your own island, here's a spade and some bricks - no one said your new life came with running water and central heating - so build it or go home
Hmmm. Reminds me of a Star Trek movie...
That didn't turn out so great.
Quote from: Boggit on September 24, 2015, 08:35:57 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 24, 2015, 01:56:08 AM
Scotland is empty above Inverness - and there's tonnes of islands too, you want peace and safety from oppression? Here's your own island, here's a spade and some bricks - no one said your new life came with running water and central heating - so build it or go home
And as the SNP are so in favour of taking in the colonists, let them go where UCG says and everyone will be happy. ;D
I think there may be a few men in kilts that would not be too chuffed......
Who like JD?
Possible, yes. But even bigger, and hairier, and with claymores!
And that's just the women. :)
ROFL
I had visions of Gimli describing Dwarvish women in The Two Towers and Aragon mimicking a long beard behind his back when I wrote that.
^LOL
Sept/Oct Foreign Affairs has a writeup on "Obama and the Middle East" p18-27. It basically says all is wonderful. It ends on the "...next President will rush to distance him- or herself from Obama ['s policy], only to discover that the structural realities of the region justify Obama's vision."
I must be missing something. Maybe the part where so many people want western benefits without solid western style States. OK, so they know how to topple strongman dictators. They are missing the part on building something new that benefits the people.
So, IMO, they will try to tear down what they do not understand in Europe. They will have nothing to replace it with but fundamentalism. If they knew how, they would have introduced it in the middle East.
Their basic problems are corruption. If they start getting power they turn into the new dictator, like eye doctor to killer Assad. Even if FA is correct, everyone has to decide if the "structural realities" can be improved.
If chaos is a foreign policy well I guess mission accomplished.
Looks like the Druze in the south are now being targeted.
http://www.worldpolicy.org/blog/2015/09/21/sheikhs-assassination-draws-syrias-druze-closer-conflict
"Syrians from the Druze religious minority are at a crossroads in the ongoing civil war, stuck between the Syrian government's brutal attacks, on the one hand, and an increasingly sectarian Sunni armed opposition on the other.
Remaining neutral in the civil war has become increasingly difficult for Syrian Druze, particularly in Sweida, a city in the country's southwest, where an influential Druze religious leader who openly opposed the Syrian government, Sheikh Wahid Balous, was killed by a car bomb on September 4."
What a wonderful region. Maybe if it burns long enough it will totally disappear from the face of the earth.
Quote from: Gusington on September 25, 2015, 09:01:16 AM
What a wonderful region. Maybe if it burns long enough it will totally disappear from the face of the earth.
that sounds like Bradford where we have settled the first refugees
Ha! Bradford is like a Middle Eastern / Asian country anyway - you need a passport to get in there.
"The strategy to bring about this universal system would be named jihad, an obligation binding on believers to expand their faith through struggle. "Jihad" encompassed warfare, but it was not limited to a military strategy; the term also included other means of exerting one's full power to redeem and spread the message of Islam, such as spiritual striving or great deeds glorifying the religion's principles. Depending on the circumstances— and in various eras and regions, the relative emphasis has differed widely— the believer might fulfill jihad "by his heart; his tongue; his hands; or by the sword."
"
Kissinger, Henry (2014-09-09). World Order (pp. 101-102). Penguin Group US. Kindle Edition.
Would occupy Europe, after significant physical struggle for survival, count?
^Yep. Infiltrate and gradually take over from within.
I'm thinking that the first Europeans to flea their mistakes will be the liberals that insisted they open their boarders. The ones that will stay and fight for their countries will be those that opposed this policy.
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 25, 2015, 10:07:47 AM
Quote from: Gusington on September 25, 2015, 09:01:16 AM
What a wonderful region. Maybe if it burns long enough it will totally disappear from the face of the earth.
that sounds like Bradford where we have settled the first refugees
"Refugees"? No, they are not. Try "Colonists" as a more appropriate term - here to stay and unwilling to integrate with the native culture.
Russian airstrikes have started
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/01/world/europe/russia-airstrikes-syria.html
Quote from: mirth on September 30, 2015, 08:46:54 AM
Russian airstrikes have started
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/01/world/europe/russia-airstrikes-syria.html
yay?
If the Russkies want to try to straighten that shit out, more power to them. They can bleed and try to bring stability. Hell Russian "stability" in that part of the world is a step-up, IMHO.
Quote from: mirth on September 30, 2015, 08:46:54 AM
Russian airstrikes have started
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/01/world/europe/russia-airstrikes-syria.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/30/did-russia-send-an-anti-u-s-force-to-syria.html
Wow. Good thing Obama met with Putin to get this all cleared up.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on September 30, 2015, 12:00:33 PM
Quote from: mirth on September 30, 2015, 08:46:54 AM
Russian airstrikes have started
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/01/world/europe/russia-airstrikes-syria.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/30/did-russia-send-an-anti-u-s-force-to-syria.html
I'd love to see the Russians try to tangle with Israel. The IAF would turn that airbase into a smoldering wreck in a few hours.
I can't imagine any upside for the Russians, to provoke Israel.
Quote from: Centurion40 on September 30, 2015, 12:21:52 PM
I can't imagine any upside for the Russians, to provoke Israel.
Israel may seem like an imaginary beachhead of the US in that area. *If* Russia could manage to get some Syrian and Iranian proxies to stir up trouble for Israel they might not be able to put their full attention on the antics in Syria and, subsequently, in Iran.
Good read here
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/magazine/meet-the-american-vigilantes-who-are-fighting-isis.html
I see from some of the Russian Military social media stuff that SU-24's are conducting some of the strikes - sweet looking plane! Must be an interesting cross-section of aircraft in the skies over Syria !!
Quote from: LongBlade on September 30, 2015, 12:36:33 PM
Quote from: Centurion40 on September 30, 2015, 12:21:52 PM
I can't imagine any upside for the Russians, to provoke Israel.
Israel may seem like an imaginary beachhead of the US in that area. *If* Russia could manage to get some Syrian and Iranian proxies to stir up trouble for Israel they might not be able to put their full attention on the antics in Syria and, subsequently, in Iran.
And proxy meddling could possibly look something like this:
QuotePalestinian President Mahmoud Abbas declared before world leaders Wednesday that he is no longer bound by agreements signed with Israel and called on the United Nations to provide international protection for Palestinians, in the most serious warning yet that he might walk away from engagement with the Jewish state.
source: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_UNITED_NATIONS_SUMMIT_PALESTINIANS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-09-30-13-06-20
That would have happened one day, no matter what. Still it doesn't mean that the Russian are not involved as provocateurs either.
News in the car on the way home is that none of the targets were Isis - all were pro democracy anti Assad forces
Balls
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 30, 2015, 03:02:14 PM
News in the car on the way home is that none of the targets were Isis - all were pro democracy anti Assad forces
Balls
What does that mean? I wasn't aware there were any pro-democracy forces there.
Iraqi? Kurds?
The Rebels fighting against Assad
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 30, 2015, 05:22:10 PM
The Rebels fighting against Assad
Who aren't Daesh? All four of them?
There's actually a lot of them in Syria. The ISIS weenies are using Syria as a staging area but fighting more in Iraq
I heard on CNN also that Russia 'ordered' all US aircraft in the area to be grounded.
Quote from: Gusington on September 30, 2015, 06:06:04 PM
I heard on CNN also that Russia 'ordered' all US aircraft in the area to be grounded.
We actually said no. I'm shocked.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/30/kerry-rebuffs-russian-demand-says-us-airstrikes-in-syria-will-continue/
Yeah I can't believe it either :/
Quote from: mirth on September 30, 2015, 06:10:22 PM
Quote from: Gusington on September 30, 2015, 06:06:04 PM
I heard on CNN also that Russia 'ordered' all US aircraft in the area to be grounded.
We actually said no. I'm shocked.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/30/kerry-rebuffs-russian-demand-says-us-airstrikes-in-syria-will-continue/
Obama must have missed his daily brief this morning.
Or maybe Kerry might have made a decent international affairs president.
Quote from: Staggerwing on September 30, 2015, 08:24:21 PM
Or maybe Kerry might have made a decent international affairs president.
:2funny:
Tell us another one!
Quote from: bayonetbrant on September 30, 2015, 05:57:34 PM
There's actually a lot of them in Syria. The ISIS weenies are using Syria as a staging area but fighting more in Iraq
I believe you.
And I'd like to believe our military is quasi competent.
But here's the deal where I'm not connecting the dots:
We supposedly dropped half a billion bucks training six fighters to fight for us. The reason why there aren't more is because a few defected, but more importantly, we're having real trouble discerning the "good" rebels from the "bad." Bad meaning Daesh.
So if there are so many "good" rebels out there being bombed by USSR then why are we having so much trouble finding them?
The way I see it, USSR either knows something we don't, or the "good" rebels aren't really "good" enough to be considered fit to receive our weapons/training.
Can you help fill me in?
They don't care any more than we do to *really* figure out what's going on. They're trying to placate Assad so they can keep a semi-permanent base in the region. We're trying to placate a fickle American public because we're locked in a perpetual election cycle.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on September 30, 2015, 09:11:08 PM
They don't care any more than we do to *really* figure out what's going on.
Really?
We pour a lot of bucks into intel to play games exactly like who's-really-on-my-side. I suspect both the Russians and the West have a fairly good understanding of who's who over there. Whether it bubbles up to public discourse is another topic.
However, the question still stands - are they on our side or not? Presumably they are at least convincingly so, though perhaps only in a Somoza-Duvalier-Noriega vein.
Obama can't be bothered with Russia or Syria. He's too busy curing Global Warming. And did Kerry have another face-lift or did he just fall off his bicycle again?
I thought it was a permanent erection cycle...oh nevermind that's Star.
Quote from: Gusington on October 01, 2015, 08:30:28 AM
I thought it was a permanent erection cycle...oh nevermind that's Star.
He lives in a Blue Pill state.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2015%2F10%2F01%2F15%2F2CF95E0D00000578-3255876-image-a-20_1443708224325.jpg&hash=8f49a26ed0c5b0c9e512bbec5fac26f2979649fa)
Russian airstrikes have begun, Putin drafting 150,000 conscripts and sending additional equipment to Syria
I think the conscripts are part of the regular cycle in Russia. IIRC, there's a spring and fall call-up.
Conscripts?
The US occupied Iraq with ~120,000 highly professional soldiers and struggled.
150,000 conscripts are essentially cannon fodder. Putin truly is heartless. Or stupid. Or both.
Let's see, 20th of January 2017 is when the next president is sworn in.
Any bets as to whether Soviet Russia is still struggling to pacify Syria in 15 months?
QuoteMore Iranian troops have arrived in Syria for an upcoming ground operation to accompany Russian airstrikes, defense officials confirm to Fox News.
"It has always been understood in this building that the Russians would provide the air force, and the Iranians would provide the ground force in Syria," one official said.
Another official tells Fox News, "The Iranians have always been on the ground [in Syria]." The officials could not disclose the size of this new Iranian force due to the sensitivity of the information.
source: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/01/cia-backed-rebels-civilians-reportedly-targeted-by-russian-airstrikes-in-syria/
Quote from: LongBlade on October 01, 2015, 09:50:36 AM
Conscripts?
The US occupied Iraq with ~120,000 highly professional soldiers and struggled.
150,000 conscripts are essentially cannon fodder. Putin truly is heartless. Or stupid. Or both.
Let's see, 20th of January 2017 is when the next president is sworn in.
Any bets as to whether Soviet Russia is still struggling to pacify Syria in 15 months?
That 150,000 doesn't mean much of anything. If recent history is any indication, half that number might actually show up and out of that maybe two-thirds will be fit for service. So they might get 50,000 or so out of the fall draft.
Quote from: eyebiter on October 01, 2015, 09:25:44 AM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2015%2F10%2F01%2F15%2F2CF95E0D00000578-3255876-image-a-20_1443708224325.jpg&hash=8f49a26ed0c5b0c9e512bbec5fac26f2979649fa)
Russian airstrikes have begun, Putin drafting 150,000 conscripts and sending additional equipment to Syria
so they missed ISIS again? ::)
Maybe Russian compasses work backwards.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 01, 2015, 01:06:25 PM
Maybe Russian compasses work backwards.
If they work at all.
This will be a true party now that Iranians and Russians are fighting together.
In Russia, ISIS bombings target you!
didnt Obama critize Romney about Russia being a threat.
I'm assuming there's only usaaf and Russian planes in the sky?
It's going to be interesting if one shoots down the other?
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 01, 2015, 02:21:51 PM
I'm assuming there's only usaaf and Russian planes in the sky?
Nope. Saudi Arabia, UAE, France, Jordan. Just to name a few.
UAE? Do they have like a zeppelin corps or somesuch?
Quote from: Gusington on October 01, 2015, 02:58:08 PM
UAE? Do they have like a zeppelin corps or somesuch?
80 or so F-16s. Bunch of Mirage 2000s. To be honest, I'm not sure how active the Arab states currently are over Syria. I know several of them have flown missions against ISIS in the past year or so. And France just started flying missions against ISIS.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/28/world/europe/france-says-it-has-struck-at-isis-in-syria.html
Yep. Seems about right.
Once again, Putin has stuck his thumb straight in the eye of POTUS. By telling our air forces to stay out of the Russian's way while they bomb Mister Prezi's chosen allies. ::)
I think the White House has chosen poorly in this whole conflict, and now their impotence and failure is being further mocked by Overlord Putinski & Iran. Rubbing their nose in it.
Quote from: Nefaro on October 01, 2015, 06:29:26 PM
I think the White House has chosen poorly in this whole conflict, and now their impotence and failure is being further mocked by Overlord Putinski & Iran. Rubbing their nose in it.
I think you're right.
I'm actually starting to feel a bit sorry for Obama. He thought he was so smart. His grand plan looked so good on paper. It looks like reality isn't waiting for him to leave office before proving him wrong.
His foreign policy is a smoking ruin of a middle east. His only "accomplishment" was actually driven by Pelosi and Reid...and it's falling apart. NY's exchange is now in a death spiral and others are predicted to follow.
He has the opposite of the Midas Touch. Imagine - the legacy he leaves is humiliating. And all that's left for him to do is stand impotently with a phone in one hand and a pen doodling caricatures of the Nobel Peace Prize.
I do not envy him one bit.
Why do I get the feeling Russia is setting up two long term wars to train troops, Syria in Winter, and Ukraine in Summer.
^I never thought of it that way.
But it gets hot in Ukraine. And cold in Syria.
Still...interesting.
Quote from: Gusington on October 01, 2015, 09:05:33 PM
^I never thought of it that way.
But it gets hot in Ukraine. And cold in Syria.
Still...interesting.
Compared to Russia, how bad can it be?
If this were civ 5 and a nation with a reputation like Russia's came and asked for permission to enter your warzone you'd laugh like a maniac and press no within 2 seconds
Knowing the Russians supported Assad what did they think was going to happen - they were obviously going to attack his direct enemies and threat to power and that's not Isis - even if they looked you square in the eye and said 'we promise'!!
And how is Russia even involved in any diplomatic conversation with anyone - they annexed part of another country, but they're still holding the Olympics, the World Cup and get invited to all the decision making conferences - it's like everyone is 'oh yeah, Ukraine, well..... That doesn't really count'
The country's leadership cannot be trusted about anything..... Ever, as long as Putin is there
Its very worrying - but I keep asking what can be done. Realistically, no one wants another major war.
That Bob, is why Putin is getting away with it. I would have thought Europe, England in particular, would have learned these lessons in the 1930's.
theres an obvious agenda here - i find it hard to believe ukraine, syria isnt part of some larger plan - you dont randomly sit in the kremlin rolling dice and seeing which operations to partake in
Well, Ukraine means defense industries in the eastern part and breadbasket in the western, control of the Black Sea in the south.
Syria? Strategic control of the eastern Med and great influence in the center of the Islamic world.
There may be some opportunism in all of this since Putin's Coming Empire wouldn't be the first to expand serendipitously.
Quote from: OJsDad on October 02, 2015, 06:18:38 AM
That Bob, is why Putin is getting away with it. I would have thought Europe, England in particular, would have learned these lessons in the 1930's.
People never learn. Putin is essentially replaying Stalin's 1930's policy. Using ISIS as Hitler, he tars the whole opposition with the same brush . ISIS does its best to wreck the opposition, while in reality not being very formidable against a determined military action. In this scenario Assad with Russian help becomes a preferable option to the populace. Meanwhile in Ukraine.......remember Ukraine.
West needs to realize that Russia is a much greater threat to peace then ISIS, and move accordingly, like a permanent US air base in Poland for starters. Welcome to the big time Mr. President, these are not Chicago rules anymore.
When the Iran nuke issue started to gain some traction, it was pointed out that the US had a large military presence in Afghanistan and Iran.
If you look at what Putin is doing, who lies between Ukraine and Syria. What does he have to gain by putting the squeeze on them.
Also just as in the 1930's the more desperately the West tries to avoid war, the more likely it's going to get it. Unless it want to surrender.
Quote from: OJsDad on October 02, 2015, 06:55:05 AM
When the Iran nuke issue started to gain some traction, it was pointed out that the US had a large military presence in Afghanistan and Iran.
If you look at what Putin is doing, who lies between Ukraine and Syria. What does he have to gain by putting the squeeze on them.
In the long run Putin sees an opportunity to gain the Shea crescent of Syria, Iraq and Iran.
Because you know that if that happens you can wave to the nuclear restrains on Iran good bye.
I wonder what Israel's view is on that outcome?
No worries. Obama has isolated Russia for her behavior in Crimea and told Assad he has to go. So, problem solved. Now turn in your guns.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 02, 2015, 10:32:24 AM
No worries. Obama has isolated Russia for her behavior in Crimea and told Assad he has to go. So, problem solved. Now turn in your guns.
Putin has the US where he wants them. A weak president. China slowly rattling the saber in Asia with the Spratly's With the chaos in the Middle East and an ally willing to open the door and let them in. And a weak Europe now being invaded with those fleeing the Middle East.
That's why I play wargames. The real world is just too scary.
.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 02, 2015, 10:32:24 AM
No worries. Obama has isolated Russia for her behavior in Crimea and told Assad he has to go. So, problem solved. Now turn in your guns.
;D
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 02, 2015, 06:27:24 AM
theres an obvious agenda here - i find it hard to believe ukraine, syria isnt part of some larger plan - you dont randomly sit in the kremlin rolling dice and seeing which operations to partake in
I think the Ukraine is an obvious ploy to keep them out of NATO.
Syria is a little more murky. Obviously he wants to prop up an ally that gives some naval access to the Med. Although, that doesn't seem like the whole of it. Bombing pro-US rebels is only icing on the cake. Putin seemingly enjoys poking and prodding Obama whatever chance he gets. It usually starts by saying something behind closed doors, then doing the exact opposite.
I can imagine Obama just sitting in the oval office thinking "I didn't sign up for this!".
That's telling him! Putin's got no choice but to withdraw from Syria now.
QuotePresident Obama, addressing Soviet intervention in Syria at a White House press conference, said Tuesday Iran and Syria President Bashar Assad represented Russia's entire coalition "and the rest of the world makes up ours."
source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/10/02/president-addresses-russian-intervention-in-syria-at-wh-press-conference/?intcmp=hpbt1
Wait I thought Iran was on our side now? Isn't Kerry in the running for the Nobel Peace Prize for some sort of historic agreement or other that involved Iran?
Fox actually used 'Soviet'?
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on October 02, 2015, 01:39:51 PM
It bypasses the NATO gate at the Dardanelles, giving them the world's oceans in winter.
with what russian navy? ::)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 02, 2015, 09:14:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on October 02, 2015, 01:39:51 PM
It bypasses the NATO gate at the Dardanelles, giving them the world's oceans in winter.
with what russian navy? ::)
The drunk one, of course. :crazy2:
I'm often surprised at how uninformed some of the newsies can be. I frequently hear them still call Russia "Soviet" and some politicians too. I think many are still just in a habit of saying Soviet Union or Soviet Russia. But some are clearly clueless. I think the Soviets actually had far better control of their leaders, and thus made them more predictable, than the current leadership of Russia. One hopes somebody's telling Putin he can't take over the whole world but who really knows.
Quote from: Gusington on October 02, 2015, 08:40:58 PM
Fox actually used 'Soviet'?
It's not far from the mark.
I can't imagine it's an oversight, but then again bigger mistakes have been made.
Quote from: Gusington on October 02, 2015, 08:40:58 PM
Fox actually used 'Soviet'?
Since Putin is apparently attempting to rebuild the Soviet Union, perhaps it's a prophetic slip of the tongue.
It's a sad day when we're pining for the return of soviets.
Quote from: Gusington on October 03, 2015, 08:27:39 AM
It's a sad day when we're pining for the return of soviets.
Indeed it is. But it doesn't appear that any nation is going to thwart Putin's efforts.
Putin is a leader of one of the most resource abundant countries in the world.
He understands the rise of Islamic terrorism that we formented when we started supplying the Afghan Muj's in their war in Afghanistan against the Soviet regime.
History is repeating itself on a new level. After the Crusades when the west invaded the middle east, the arabs went on a Jihad and invaded Europe, which basically resulted in our dark ages(1200-1500).
We kicked over an ant hill and now have to pay the price.
Thank you, you corporate shill greedy assholes posing as western leaders!
At least you can can still make a fortune off of the rest of the uneducated sheep!
Putin is an opportunist, who sees the Islamic State as a useful distraction (as well as life target practice) from his own aggression in Ukraine. Also by targeting all opposition and claiming the he is attacking IS he reinforce the lie that US and the West support IS.
"Putin is an opportunist"
I have no doubts about that!
He knows who he is dealing with. Mainly bought and paid for western corporate shill leaders, who are also opportunists!
Burkina Faso will stop Soviet Russia.
"Burkina Faso "
WHAT?
You heard me.
All righty then.
Quote from: Gusington on October 03, 2015, 01:22:01 PM
Burkina Faso will stop Soviet Russia.
Well played Gus. I hadn't thought of that geopolitical strategic angle. Brilliant!
WOW!(In my Cristopher Walken voice)
https://youtu.be/tRrPmJ94UZo
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe304%2Fjayjayh3%2Fbitch_sammich_zpsllxzjs7y.png&hash=63a2813b4563bca53d1a4f024d8d372923e7ca59)
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 12:47:06 PM
Putin is a leader of one of the most resource abundant countries in the world.
He understands the rise of Islamic terrorism that we formented when we started supplying the Afghan Muj's in their war in Afghanistan against the Soviet regime.
History is repeating itself on a new level. After the Crusades when the west invaded the middle east, the arabs went on a Jihad and invaded Europe, which basically resulted in our dark ages(1200-1500).
We kicked over an ant hill and now have to pay the price.
Thank you, you corporate shill greedy assholes posing as western leaders!
At least you can can still make a fortune off of the rest of the uneducated sheep!
What a crock of crap. First, the Muslims were the invaders into the Byzatine Empire. It was the Byzatine Emperor Alexios I that asked the Pope for help. BTW, the Moors were invading Sicily and the Iberian Peninsula about 400 years before the first Crusade.
Then you had Saddam invading Kuwait. BinLaden wanted to help Suadi Arabia, but the Saudis said no thank you and excepted the US aid. That had more to do with the anti west movement of the radical Islamifasists than anything else.
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 12:47:06 PM
Putin is a leader of one of the most resource abundant countries in the world.
He understands the rise of Islamic terrorism that we formented when we started supplying the Afghan Muj's in their war in Afghanistan against the Soviet regime.
History is repeating itself on a new level. After the Crusades when the west invaded the middle east, the arabs went on a Jihad and invaded Europe, which basically resulted in our dark ages(1200-1500).
We kicked over an ant hill and now have to pay the price.
Thank you, you corporate shill greedy assholes posing as western leaders!
At least you can can still make a fortune off of the rest of the uneducated sheep!
Muslims have a long history of Jihad followed by a long dormancy. They didn't need corporate shills in the middle ages - or before. They have been simmering since Lawrence of Arabia. It was inevitable.
QuoteBinLaden wanted to help Suadi Arabia, but the Saudis said no thank you and excepted the US aid. That had more to do with the anti west movement of the radical Islamifasists than anything else.
Yet ,the people responsible for 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia!
You can spin this game any way you like! We lost and until someone comes up with a sensible plan to deal with the crisis we created, it's all water under the bridge!
What did we lose again?
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 04:28:52 PM
QuoteBinLaden wanted to help Suadi Arabia, but the Saudis said no thank you and excepted the US aid. That had more to do with the anti west movement of the radical Islamifasists than anything else.
Yet ,the people responsible for 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia!
Right.
Living in Afghanistan.
I'm not tracking with you.
The point being that international borders are kinda irrelevant when it comes to terrorists? On that I'd agree.
QuoteWhat did we lose again?
How about your freedom! The Govt. Spys on us thru the internet! not to mention all the other ways they own us, like naional Health Care and Car insurance. We fought a war in this country for indepence(taxation without repersentation) from a country that treated us better then what we have now!
And your proposition to address this grievance is what again exactly?
Here we go again :crazy2:
If I knew I would be the next president
Take note, for you are seeing in this time the apex and the decline of an empire that had potential, but was Hi-Jacked by corporate fucks that could care less about the country that maintaned them.
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 04:55:29 PM
QuoteWhat did we lose again?
How about your freedom! The Govt. Spys on us thru the internet! not to mention all the other ways they own us, like naional Health Care and Car insurance. We fought a war in this country for indepence(taxation without repersentation) from a country that treated us better then what we have now!
In the free society you have no fear of persecution of openly expressing yourself. It is not the "spying" that would be the problem, its if there were potential consequences of free expression that would be an issue. So far there has been no proof that any of the mass intelligence gathered was ever used for purposes of curtailing free expression or political activity. And what's with the national Health Care and Car Insurance nonsense? I think you got your scripts all mixed up.
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 05:15:17 PM
Take note, for you are seeing in this time the apex and the decline of an empire that had potential, but was Hi-Jacked by corporate fucks that could care less about the country that maintamed them.
"Corporate fucks?"
I'm afraid that's too technical for my small brain, but if I'm not mistaken, by your logic the causality of America's problems are caused by "corporate fucks."
It would seem your solution is obvious: eliminate "corporate fucks."
Easy enough.
From now on there will be no more sex between workers in corporations! (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Flongblade%2FSmilies%2Fholosith.gif&hash=2e50af85f168f6d0b93807dca5c4c366a8492a5d)
QuoteIn the free society you have no fear of persecution of openly expressing yourself. It is not the "spying" that would be the problem, its if there were potential consequences of free expression that would be an issue. So far there has been no proof that any of the mass intelligence gathered was ever used for purposes of curtailing free expression or political activity. And what's with the national Health Care and Car Insurance nonsense? I think you got your scripts all mixed up.
I think you're a paid for shill, since I've never seen you post anything about games,but you do post alot about current neo-liberal events!
The first point is that the United States is not an empire, but that being said I'm not sure the sun has begun to set on the American experiment. The frustration is all fine and good, but again what do you suggest to be done? Railing against "corporations" isn't really a policy position nor is lamenting their destruction of the nation that ends their influence, because I'm going to assume you like everyone else benefit from any number of the many of the products of these same corporations produce. So what are some ideas to address the issue of what I surmise is your perception of undo influence?
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
because I'm going to assume you like everyone else benefit from any number of the many of the products of these same corporations produce.
Apple products are totally overrated.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 05:31:09 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
because I'm going to assume you like everyone else benefit from any number of the many of the products of these same corporations produce.
Apple products are totally overrated.
cider?
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 05:33:35 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 05:31:09 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
because I'm going to assume you like everyone else benefit from any number of the many of the products of these same corporations produce.
Apple products are totally overrated.
cider?
Vinegar?
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 05:24:32 PM
QuoteIn the free society you have no fear of persecution of openly expressing yourself. It is not the "spying" that would be the problem, its if there were potential consequences of free expression that would be an issue. So far there has been no proof that any of the mass intelligence gathered was ever used for purposes of curtailing free expression or political activity. And what's with the national Health Care and Car Insurance nonsense? I think you got your scripts all mixed up.
I think you're a paid for shill, since I've never seen you post anything about games,but you do post alot about current neo-liberal events!
You would know about "paid for posting".
I think we have another CitizenStechkin situation here, LongBlade.
Playing this now to keep Mirth happy
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FvNMd6zN.jpg&hash=d9b57e7037c0d56173be4c4329f43573bce68b6d)
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 05:31:09 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
because I'm going to assume you like everyone else benefit from any number of the many of the products of these same corporations produce.
Apple products are totally overrated.
I don't know about that. They are intuitive and the OS is actually really very nice. I prefer to work on my MacBook then a windows based work station and my iPhone takes some awesome freaking photos.
Quote from: pawelj on October 03, 2015, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 05:24:32 PM
QuoteIn the free society you have no fear of persecution of openly expressing yourself. It is not the "spying" that would be the problem, its if there were potential consequences of free expression that would be an issue. So far there has been no proof that any of the mass intelligence gathered was ever used for purposes of curtailing free expression or political activity. And what's with the national Health Care and Car Insurance nonsense? I think you got your scripts all mixed up.
I think you're a paid for shill, since I've never seen you post anything about games,but you do post alot about current neo-liberal events!
You would know about "paid for posting".
I think we have another CitizenStechkin situation here, LongBlade.
Why does everyone look at me?
This is a job for......
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Flongblade%2FGrogHeads%2Fgus%2520team%2520seal_zpszjvkz3av.jpg&hash=f1960d32939235274a89ccd1c41469257b59fb36)
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 05:36:03 PM
Playing this now to keep Mirth happy
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FvNMd6zN.jpg&hash=d9b57e7037c0d56173be4c4329f43573bce68b6d)
^Nice!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.meme.am%2Finstances2%2F500x%2F2226982.jpg&hash=4069a410657521e83ed7cbcc23cefe2e7fc9fc92)
Quote from: bob48 on October 03, 2015, 05:35:19 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 05:33:57 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 05:33:35 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 05:31:09 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
because I'm going to assume you like everyone else benefit from any number of the many of the products of these same corporations produce.
Apple products are totally overrated.
cider?
Vinegar?
Pie?
We have a winner!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffrysfood.inspiredgathering.com%2Fimages%2Ffinal-images%2FSummer%2Fjuly-4th%2FApplePie_lg.jpg&hash=35a748b9f386ea228d7aa699d197d3c551785931)
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 05:36:55 PM
Quote from: pawelj on October 03, 2015, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 05:24:32 PM
QuoteIn the free society you have no fear of persecution of openly expressing yourself. It is not the "spying" that would be the problem, its if there were potential consequences of free expression that would be an issue. So far there has been no proof that any of the mass intelligence gathered was ever used for purposes of curtailing free expression or political activity. And what's with the national Health Care and Car Insurance nonsense? I think you got your scripts all mixed up.
I think you're a paid for shill, since I've never seen you post anything about games,but you do post alot about current neo-liberal events!
You would know about "paid for posting".
I think we have another CitizenStechkin situation here, LongBlade.
Why does everyone look at me?
This is a job for......
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Flongblade%2FGrogHeads%2Fgus%2520team%2520seal_zpszjvkz3av.jpg&hash=f1960d32939235274a89ccd1c41469257b59fb36)
Sure, but you were the man on the case back then.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 05:38:37 PM
Quote from: bob48 on October 03, 2015, 05:35:19 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 05:33:57 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 05:33:35 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 05:31:09 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
because I'm going to assume you like everyone else benefit from any number of the many of the products of these same corporations produce.
Apple products are totally overrated.
cider?
Vinegar?
Pie?
We have a winner!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffrysfood.inspiredgathering.com%2Fimages%2Ffinal-images%2FSummer%2Fjuly-4th%2FApplePie_lg.jpg&hash=35a748b9f386ea228d7aa699d197d3c551785931)
Fascist!
^Don't talk with your mouth full.
Man now I want apple pie. I wonder how many things the wife will throw at me if I tell her to bake me a pie...NOW!
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 05:36:07 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 05:31:09 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
because I'm going to assume you like everyone else benefit from any number of the many of the products of these same corporations produce.
Apple products are totally overrated.
I don't know about that. They are intuitive and the OS is actually really very nice. I prefer to work on my MacBook then a windows based work station and my iPhone takes some awesome freaking photos.
Really. I think the OS treats you like a kindergartener. It's OK for my dad - he can't really mess things up on it.
But I like the FREEDOM of Android.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.ifunny.com%2Fresults%2F2014%2F03%2F01%2Fai6uimkt6o.jpg&hash=073ef3602897aeb4c27d8cf1f1c8d8c098a2d1cd)
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 05:41:19 PM
Man now I want apple pie. I wonder how many things the wife will throw at me if I tell her to bake me a pie...NOW!
Let's find out!
Quote from: bob48 on October 03, 2015, 05:41:01 PM
^Don't talk with your mouth full.
Usually that's what I tell Star.
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 05:41:19 PM
Man now I want apple pie.
Me, too.
Both kinds.
(https://www.mylifeonandofftheguestlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/American-Born-Apple-Pie-Moonshine-www.mylifeonandofftheguestlist.com_.jpg)
I'll take an "it just works" os when it comes to some of the programs I deal with these days.
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 05:42:41 PM
Quote from: bob48 on October 03, 2015, 05:41:01 PM
^Don't talk with your mouth full.
Usually that's what I tell Star.
Laugh.
Out.
Loud.
I knew that was coming and I still laughed. It never gets old.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 05:43:05 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 05:41:19 PM
Man now I want apple pie.
Me, too.
Both kinds.
(https://www.mylifeonandofftheguestlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/American-Born-Apple-Pie-Moonshine-www.mylifeonandofftheguestlist.com_.jpg)
Just so long as that isn't made by Mags Bennett
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 05:43:40 PM
I knew that was coming...
And that's usually Star's reply.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 05:43:40 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 05:42:41 PM
Quote from: bob48 on October 03, 2015, 05:41:01 PM
^Don't talk with your mouth full.
Usually that's what I tell Star.
Laugh.
Out.
Loud.
I knew that was coming and I still laughed. It never gets old.
I love it when a plan comes together ;-)
Perhaps we could just start making these...
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdnaimg.com%2F2011%2F10%2F09%2Fretro-cars-from-soviet-union%2Fzaz-car5.jpg&hash=28779949dd3c90319ddc17204240c8412d828f8b)
and standing in some of these for bread and toilet paper...
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.polskieradio.pl%2F9c612702-49ad-4151-ae0d-df57638e5433.file&hash=23bd146d88dfcccbf24c2e4f2c8854b06a44d3a8)
That'll break us of our dependence on this failed philosophical ideal of liberalism. The Locke kind not the Barrack kind.
Da.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 05:41:49 PM
But I like the FREEDOM of Android.
The freedom to be an annoying hot mess. Almost every manufacturer of phones or tablets feels compelled to monkey around with Android so it can claim it has the 'best' one. And after all that there are still so many security holes that the next free game app you d/l could be the one to steal all your stuff and send it to some Kazakh info pirate or PLA gold farmer.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.meme.am%2Finstances2%2F500x%2F2227079.jpg&hash=49e833d69229f119a10b38d7c5ca9b67d68ce891)
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 03, 2015, 05:49:59 PMthere are still so many security holes that the next free game app you d/l could be the one to steal all your stuff and send it to some Kazakh info pirate or PLA gold farmer.
Hey, at least they're not plagued by corporate fucks.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 05:53:17 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 03, 2015, 05:49:59 PMthere are still so many security holes that the next free game app you d/l could be the one to steal all your stuff and send it to some Kazakh info pirate or PLA gold farmer.
Hey, at least they're not plagued by corporate fucks.
Just manufactured, but that's another matter.
Are you really that comfortable in the bubble you live in?
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 05:56:42 PM
Are you really that comfortable in the bubble you live in?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dpcted.com%2Fmedia%2Fss_size1%2Fyes-i-am-shirt-red.jpg&hash=5f8cb2b007cfca75f4fd4481c319c3aef354f367)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F2t5GJTH.jpg&hash=a0cbff92d6447f0f48c7aab23d7629c8c0094236)
QuotePerhaps we could just start making these...
Eventually that is exactly what you will be seeing!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FCMv0V9LqLRo%2Fhqdefault.jpg&hash=b170c0f19e1f7034aed97f82ba6799a5499f20ce)
thats you isnt it?
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:00:16 PM
QuotePerhaps we could just start making these...
Eventually that is exactly what you will be seeing!
Da, Komrad.
Now, more wodka.
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 06:01:26 PM
thats you isnt it?
Without contacts. Otherwise his eyes are usually brown.
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:00:16 PM
QuotePerhaps we could just start making these...
Eventually that is exactly what you will be seeing!
If we destroy evil corporations and have a centralized planning committee, then yes you are correct.
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 06:03:40 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:00:16 PM
QuotePerhaps we could just start making these...
Eventually that is exactly what you will be seeing!
If we destroy evil corporations and have a centralized planning committee, then yes you are correct.
Da!
What we need is good five year plan.
O-Kay I was wrong!
You people are comfortable with the fact that your country is stealing your freedom and turning you into sheep!
Armchair warrior Girls, You deserve to be shit on!
^that was just mean :'(
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:08:00 PM
O-Kay I was wrong!
You people are comfortable with the fact that your country is stealing your freedom and turning you into sheep!
Armchair warrior Girls, You deserve to be shit on!
I just want to know what your plan is so I don't have to be shit on anytime in the near future. Seriously.
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:08:00 PM
O-Kay I was wrong!
You people are comfortable with the fact that your country is stealing your freedom and turning you into sheep!
Armchair warrior Girls, You deserve to be shit on!
In English we say "shat on", but "shitted" would also be acceptable.
Did someone say Shat?
(https://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/serious_shat.jpg?w=720)
Be strong Komrad Mirth.
We have new five year plan.
More steel.
More steel means more coal.
More coal means more jobs.
More jobs means more work.
More work means less leisure time (is bourgeoisie weakness anyway).
Less leisure time means need less Apple product.
Decrease in Apples means increase in wheat.
Increase wheat means more bread.
Da.
Is good five year plan.
Quote from: pawelj on October 03, 2015, 06:11:29 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:08:00 PM
O-Kay I was wrong!
You people are comfortable with the fact that your country is stealing your freedom and turning you into sheep!
Armchair warrior Girls, You deserve to be shit on!
In English we say "shat on", but "shitted" would also be acceptable.
In German: ist geshatted.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 06:13:15 PM
Be strong Komrad Mirth.
We have new five year plan.
More steel.
More steel means more coal.
More coal means more jobs.
More jobs means more work.
More work means less leisure time (is bourgeoisie weakness anyway).
Less leisure time means need less Apple product.
Decrease in Apples means increase in wheat.
Increase wheat means more bread.
Da.
Is good five year plan.
Now, more wodka!
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:08:00 PM
Armchair warrior Girls, You deserve to be shit on!
im betting my life this is a DVD in mirths collection
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 06:25:41 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:08:00 PM
Armchair warrior Girls, You deserve to be shit on!
im betting my life this is a DVD in mirths collection
Two warrior girls, one cup?
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 06:25:41 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:08:00 PM
Armchair warrior Girls, You deserve to be shit on!
im betting my life this is a DVD in mirths collection
It's a good one too. The chick who plays Guderian is hawt.
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 06:28:53 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 06:25:41 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:08:00 PM
Armchair warrior Girls, You deserve to be shit on!
im betting my life this is a DVD in mirths collection
It's a good one too. The chick who plays Guderian is hawt.
Then she can take command of my Army Group South anytime.
Quote
In English we say "shat on", but "shitted" would also be acceptable.
First of all shit head, I was born and raised in Michigan.
I think you are are Polish shill Looking for an Israeli deal from NATO. Good Luck. We never liked the Polsh in this country!
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 03, 2015, 06:32:16 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 06:28:53 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 06:25:41 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:08:00 PM
Armchair warrior Girls, You deserve to be shit on!
im betting my life this is a DVD in mirths collection
It's a good one too. The chick who plays Guderian is hawt.
Then she can take command of my Army Group South anytime.
Well played, sir. Well played.
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:32:58 PM
Quote
In English we say "shat on", but "shitted" would also be acceptable.
First of all shit head, I was born and raised in Michigan.
I think you are are Polish shill Looking for an Israeli deal from NATO. Good Luck. We never liked the Poish in this country~!
Uh...medications seem to have been forgotten to be taken by someone.
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:32:58 PM
Quote
In English we say "shat on", but "shitted" would also be acceptable.
First of all shit head, I was born and raised in Michigan.
I think you are are Polish shill Looking for an Israeli deal from NATO. Good Luck. We never liked the Poish in this country~!
The Poish? Is that some kind of racist slang? I'm not up on my Klan-speak.
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:32:58 PM
Quote
In English we say "shat on", but "shitted" would also be acceptable.
First of all shit head, I was born and raised in Michigan.
I think you are are Polish shill Looking for an Israeli deal from NATO. Good Luck. We never liked the Polsh in this country!
did he just go full retard?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FAoqcw6T.jpg&hash=86d7623766c2f2e885c8c95688acbb1c6727628e)
Bison you FOX propaganed fag you need to be medicated. Have you ever served anyone but yourself?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.meme.am%2Finstances%2F400x%2F58584883.jpg&hash=d7d9c6ca523f406426a7b1d65ab4e4eb8071cffa)
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:38:03 PM
Bison you FOX proganed fag you need to be medicated. Have you ever served anyone but yourself?
No. I generally hate doing things out of selfless service and stuff. That involves risk. Who wants to take on that sort of responsibility?
Go figure ,what I print but what gets posted is different!
What's a "FOX prograned fag"? Where's Star when you need him to explain these things?!
Also before I go do something "faggish", I really need to know your suggestion on how not to be shit upon. Please? Also I'm not Polsh if that helps at all to get your wisdom on this matter. It might help me in my "fag" activities too.
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:40:46 PM
Go figure ,what I print but what gets posted is different!
You should try reading your posts from this side
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbbsimg.ngfiles.com%2F1%2F16563000%2Fngbbs4850834a52d38.jpg&hash=aa4d6ca5fa50d99de7ee65a8f6df997112570f2a)
the fox and fag is bobs local boozer
a pro gran - im not sure - an over 65 lady of the night? - deffo Stars territory
thats some niche hatred right there - polish fag shitty sheep
i like a man who can narrow down his hate
Best Saturday night EVER! Well except when I'm getting my fox fag on...
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 06:45:08 PM
thats some niche hatred right there - polish fag shitty sheep
i like a man who can narrow down his hate
It is niche.
And another thing. I was bored and came here, You fucks were starting to eat each other. I thought i would give you more food for thought!
Bison admit it. You're...
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-7DA0WaqHBYE%2FTaCVGOeuVrI%2FAAAAAAAAACw%2FQCE_ZRKxZwk%2Fs1600%2FCuckoo%2Bfor%2BCalculus%2B%2525281%252529.jpg&hash=68c2e0c711cd15bdaaa08e3db23c4cb4696da8ea)
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:46:28 PM
And another thing. I was bored and came here, You fucks were starting to eat each other. I thought i would give you more food for thought!
And don't forget to share that you have a secret method for not being shit upon. I deem that vitally important and pretty damned selfish that you didn't share it tonight.
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:46:28 PM
And another thing. I was bored and came here, You fucks were starting to eat each other. I thought i would give you more food for thought!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F6fhw2XK.png&hash=83317739a433a6fc6a1a547f5228fee599523ce8)
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 06:47:59 PM
Bison admit it. You're...
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-7DA0WaqHBYE%2FTaCVGOeuVrI%2FAAAAAAAAACw%2FQCE_ZRKxZwk%2Fs1600%2FCuckoo%2Bfor%2BCalculus%2B%2525281%252529.jpg&hash=68c2e0c711cd15bdaaa08e3db23c4cb4696da8ea)
Calculus is math. I do statistics.
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 06:49:09 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:46:28 PM
And another thing. I was bored and came here, You fucks were starting to eat each other. I thought i would give you more food for thought!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F6fhw2XK.png&hash=83317739a433a6fc6a1a547f5228fee599523ce8)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.meme.am%2Finstances2%2F500x%2F2227619.jpg&hash=a0cf3eaae2bfc6e5c1023caf1e07d30f12b8b39f)
Is there any special government benefits for a poish fox fag?
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 06:48:44 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:46:28 PM
And another thing. I was bored and came here, You fucks were starting to eat each other. I thought i would give you more food for thought!
And don't forget to share that you have a secret method for not being shit upon. I deem that vitally important and pretty damned selfish that you didn't share it tonight.
Maybe the secret to not being shit on is to be the one doing the shitting.
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 06:51:57 PM
Is there any special government benefits for a poish fox fag?
Shit dude, that's hitting the mother lode.
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 06:48:44 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:46:28 PM
And another thing. I was bored and came here, You fucks were starting to eat each other. I thought i would give you more food for thought!
And don't forget to share that you have a secret method for not being shit upon. I deem that vitally important and pretty damned selfish that you didn't share it tonight.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FsSoYmWo.png&hash=47ded81b1ec3fcff8a05db29a780b2d521d5e25d)
I was wondering why Brant wanted me to come back. to this fake gaming site. You Homosexuels love drama?
I prefer show tunes myself.
I knew that ! So what's new?
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:56:52 PM
I was wondering why Brant wanted me to come back. to this fake gaming site. You Homosexuels love drama?
The site actually has an autocorrect feature that identifies misspelled words. It's the red squiggly line. For example: Homosexuels is actually spelled homosexuals. Hard. I know. Oh my did I just say hard? How naughty of me. It must be my poish fox fag side coming out.
Well, you would know! How stupid of me!
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:56:52 PM
I was wondering why Brant wanted me to come back. to this fake gaming site. You Homosexuels love drama?
your inability to construct a sentence at all tells us youre telling fibs
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FfwAaInj.jpg&hash=bafe0745dc5aa06a602ee16b9aa933f8a57ef688)
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:56:52 PM
I was wondering why Brant wanted me to come back. to this fake gaming site. You Homosexuels love drama?
"Fake gaming site". Brant is going to be so pissed...
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 07:01:04 PM
I knew that ! So what's new?
Ohh, another fan! Would you like a link to my Showtune station on Pandora?
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 07:04:36 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:56:52 PM
I was wondering why Brant wanted me to come back. to this fake gaming site. You Homosexuels love drama?
your inability to construct a sentence at all tells us youre telling fibs
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FfwAaInj.jpg&hash=bafe0745dc5aa06a602ee16b9aa933f8a57ef688)
Elaborate!
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 07:08:23 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:56:52 PM
I was wondering why Brant wanted me to come back. to this fake gaming site. You Homosexuels love drama?
"Fake gaming site". Brant is going to be so pissed...
youre not kidding, wait till he sees where that fucking full stop is
hes going to shit
Quote
Ohh, another fan! Would you like a link to my Showtune station on Pandora?
Is that where you try to jerk off into your own mouth? I think I will take a pass on that!
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 07:04:17 PM
Well, you would know! How stupid of me!
Actually it's not secret knowledge like your not being shit upon knowledge. It may be construed as being stupid on your part if you didn't realize the red squiggly line might mean something. I blame the fluoride used in municipal water, vaccines, and excessive CO2 emissions for your oversight in not using it.
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 07:12:27 PM
Quote
Ohh, another fan! Would you like a link to my Showtune station on Pandora?
Is that where you try to jerk off into your own mouth? I think I will take a pass on that!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FomAU1Vw.jpg&hash=fc784af101e944a138a53541ec77dbdcb404dc37)
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 07:12:27 PM
Quote
Ohh, another fan! Would you like a link to my Showtune station on Pandora?
Is that where you try to jerk off into your own mouth?
Wing, you can do that? You're either very bendy or very well endowed. Either way I'm impressed!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm1.staticflickr.com%2F73%2F213488600_9cf73cb9e3_z.jpg%3Fzz%3D1&hash=cfc6e0ba33d9c378a4ab47086d9c7d361f8a6ad1)
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 06:35:42 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:32:58 PM
Quote
In English we say "shat on", but "shitted" would also be acceptable.
First of all shit head, I was born and raised in Michigan.
I think you are are Polish shill Looking for an Israeli deal from NATO. Good Luck. We never liked the Polsh in this country!
did he just go full retard?
What do you you expect? He lost his marbles a few pages back.
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 06:39:23 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:38:03 PM
Bison you FOX proganed fag you need to be medicated. Have you ever served anyone but yourself?
No. I generally hate doing things out of selfless service and stuff. That involves risk. Who wants to take on that sort of responsibility?
Too bad you're not a Polock. Then you'd really be evul.
Such a love fest, I am lothe to break out the Jedi mind tricks.
Not true homo-tard.
You guys couldn't stay on topic because you have no idea what you are talking about and do your standard fag ass deal and derail the topic.
Fuckers just made me cough my tea out on my tablet. Fortunately, it is still working.
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 07:04:36 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:56:52 PM
I was wondering why Brant wanted me to come back. to this fake gaming site. You Homosexuels love drama?
your inability to construct a sentence at all tells us youre telling fibs
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FfwAaInj.jpg&hash=bafe0745dc5aa06a602ee16b9aa933f8a57ef688)
Do.
Not.
Anger.
THEM.
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 06:50:47 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 06:49:09 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:46:28 PM
And another thing. I was bored and came here, You fucks were starting to eat each other. I thought i would give you more food for thought!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F6fhw2XK.png&hash=83317739a433a6fc6a1a547f5228fee599523ce8)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.meme.am%2Finstances2%2F500x%2F2227619.jpg&hash=a0cf3eaae2bfc6e5c1023caf1e07d30f12b8b39f)
Any corporate fucks to give?
Alms for corporate fucks.
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:08:00 PM
O-Kay I was wrong!
You people are comfortable with the fact that your country is stealing your freedom and turning you into sheep!
Armchair warrior Girls, You deserve to be shit on!
This statement had me convinced Dolan was a Neocon.
Unfortunately his h8 in Fox has confused me.
Maybe he's a Neo-Paleo-Con?
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 07:48:29 PM
Not true homo-tard.
You guys couldn't stay on topic because you have no idea what you are talking about and do your standard fag ass deal and derail the topic.
Homo-tard, FOX prograned fag, poish, my what a rich vocabulary you have! Did you major in Klan-speak?
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 07:15:24 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 07:12:27 PM
Quote
Ohh, another fan! Would you like a link to my Showtune station on Pandora?
Is that where you try to jerk off into your own mouth?
Wing, you can do that? You're either very bendy or very well endowed. Either way I'm impressed!
I spent some time in Nantucket you see...
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 07:53:31 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 06:08:00 PM
O-Kay I was wrong!
You people are comfortable with the fact that your country is stealing your freedom and turning you into sheep!
Armchair warrior Girls, You deserve to be shit on!
Longblade, It didn't take me much to know you are a FOX lap dog, and a liar!
This statement had me convinced Dolan was a Neocon.
Unfortunately his h8 in Fox has confused me.
Maybe he's a Neo-Paleo-Con?
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 03, 2015, 07:55:36 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 07:15:24 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 07:12:27 PM
Quote
Ohh, another fan! Would you like a link to my Showtune station on Pandora?
Is that where you try to jerk off into your own mouth?
Wing, you can do that? You're either very bendy or very well endowed. Either way I'm impressed!
I spent some time in Nantucket you see...
HA!
Maybe a neo fox hole con.
QuoteHomo-tard, FOX prograned fag, poish, my what a rich vocabulary you have! Did you major in Klan-speak?
Yeah, I post shit that way without checking to see what I really post before I send it. But if you feel special noticing that shit more power to you ASS FUCK!
DWP?
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:01:08 PM
QuoteHomo-tard, FOX prograned fag, poish, my what a rich vocabulary you have! Did you major in Klan-speak?
Yeah, I post shit that way without checking to see what really posts before i send it. But if you feel special noticing that shit more power to you ASS FUCK!
Thanks for making me feel special.
And if you keep calling me ASS FUCK, Star is going to get jealous. You do not want that.
time for the Hermann treatment?
otherwise known as leaving an asshole to sit in his own shit and mumble to himself whilst the grown ups go out and talk
usually followed by a hate fuelled rant, a stronger rant, a milder rant and then inane shit dribbling and whining as the fucktard troll realises theres noone there, listening or caring
and then wonders off to masturbate in a bush
Star is not jelous, He probabably has a Gerbil signing a 2 year lease in his ass as we speak!
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:10:55 PM
Star is not jelous, He probabably has a Gerbil signing a 2 year lease in his ass as we speak!
That gerbil has a name. It's Gus. Show a little respect.
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 08:11:52 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:10:55 PM
Star is not jelous, He probabably has a Gerbil signing a 2 year lease in his ass as we speak!
That gerbil has a name. It's Gus. Show a little respect.
probabably
So how's the corporatist controlled government pension working out for you these days big D?
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 08:12:44 PM
So how's the corporatist government controlled pension working out for you these days big D?
Don't confuse him.
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 08:12:44 PM
So how's the corporatist government controlled pension working out for you these days big D?
Don't confuse him.
Quotetime for the Hermann treatment?
otherwise known as leaving an asshole to sit in his own shit and mumble to himself whilst the grown ups go out and talk
usually followed by a hate fuelled rant, a stronger rant, a milder rant and then inane shit dribbling and whining as the fucktard troll realises theres noone there, listening or caring
and then wonders off to masturbate in a bush
Can you get your head any further up your ass, because I'm curious how far you can go before you run out of oxygen?
Anytime something starts with "The Footage You Are About To See Is Real", I know it must be real.
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:16:44 PM
Quotetime for the Hermann treatment?
otherwise known as leaving an asshole to sit in his own shit and mumble to himself whilst the grown ups go out and talk
usually followed by a hate fuelled rant, a stronger rant, a milder rant and then inane shit dribbling and whining as the fucktard troll realises theres noone there, listening or caring
and then wonders off to masturbate in a bush
Can you get your head any further up your ass, because I'm curious how far you can go before you run out of oxygen?
Well, how far did you make it?
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:10:55 PM
Star is not jelous, He probabably has a Gerbil signing a 2 year lease in his ass as we speak!
Oh that gerbil - we call it your mum
Is his ass a vacuum?
I've heard it sucks
fart
1. 1-man salute
2. 7.4 on the Rectum scale
3. Acid-rain maker
4. After the thunder comes the rain
5. Air bagel
6. Airbrush your boxers
7. Anal acoustics
8. Anal ahem
9. Anal audio
10. Anal salute
11. Anal volcano
12. Arse blast
13. Ass blaster
14. Ass-scented methane
15. Ass biscuit
16. Ass thunder
17. Ass whistle
18. A turd whistling for the right of way
19. Backdoor breeze
20. Backfire
21. Bad sprinkling
22. Baking brownies
23. Barking spiders
24. Bean blower
25. Beep your horn
26. Belch from behind
27. Better open a window
28. Blast off
29. Blast the chair
30. Blasting the ass trumpet
31. Blat
32. Blow ass
33. Blow mud
34. Blow the big brown horn
35. Blowing the butt bugle
36. Blowing you a kiss
37. Bomber
38. Bottom blast
39. Bottom burp
40. Break the sound barrier without a plane
41. Break wind
42. Breath of fresh air
43. Brown horn brass choir
44. Brown thunder
45. Bun shaker
46. Burnin' rubber
47. Buster
48. Busting ass
49. Butt bleat
50. Butt burp
51. Butt hair harmony
52. Butt percussion
53. Butt trauma
54. Butt trumpet
55. Butt tuba
56. Buttock bassoon
57. Cheek flapper
58. Cheesin'
59. Colonic calliope
60. Crack a rat
61. Crack one off
62. Crack splitters
63. Crimp off some breakfast biscuits
64. Crop dusting (surreptitiously farting while passing thru a cube farm, then enjoying the sounds of dismay and disgust)
65. Crowd splitter
66. Cut a stinker
67. Cut loose
68. Cut the cheese
69. Cut the wind
70. Death Breath
71. Deflate
72. Doing the one-cheek sneak
73. Doorknob
74. Drop a barking spider
75. Drop a bomb
76. Drop ass
77. Dropped a bomb
78. Eggy
79. Empty my tank
80. Exercising the meat nozzle (not sure if this one doesn't belong in a different category)
81. Exploding bottom
82. Explosion between the legs
83. Exterminate
84. Fart
85. Fire a stink torpedo
86. Fire the retro-rocket
87. Firing scud missiles
88. Fizzler
89. Flame thrower
90. Flamer
91. Flapper
92. Flatulate
93. Flatulence
94. Flatus
95. Flipper
96. Float an air biscuit
97. Floof
98. Fluffy
99. Fog slicer
100. Fowl howl
101. Fragrant fuzzy
102. Free-floating anal vapors
103. Free Jacuzi
104. Freep
105. Frequency Actuated Rectal Tremor
106. Fumigate
107. Funky rollers
108. Gas attack
109. Gas blaster
110. Gas from the ass
111. Gas master
112. Gaseous intestinal by-products
113. Ghost turd
114. Give a dirty look at the person next to you
115. Grandpa
116. Gravy pants
117. Great brown cloud
118. Hailing Emperor Crush
119. Hey, did you fart? Because you blew me away! (pick-up line)
120. Heinus anus
121. Hole flappage
122. Hole flapper
123. Honk
124. HUMrrhoids
125. Hydrogen bomb
126. I made a pootie
127. If you are that embarrassed about it, you can always blame it on me.
128. Ignition
129. Insane in the methane
130. Invert a burp
131. It's low tide
132. Jet propulsion
133. Jockey burner
134. Jumping guts
135. Just calling your name
136. Just keeping warm
137. Just the noise
138. Kaboom
139. K-Fart
140. Kill the canary
141. Lay a wind loaf
142. Lay an air biscuit
143. Leave a gas trap
144. Let a beefer
145. Let each little bean be heard
146. Let one fly
147. Let one go
148. Let the beans out
149. Lethal cloud
150. Letting one rip
151. Lingerer
152. Made a gas blast
153. Make a stink
154. Make a trumpet of one's ass (John Milton)
155. Mating call of the barking spider
156. Methane Bomb
157. Methane production experiment
158. Moon gas
159. Mud duck
160. Must be a sewer around
161. Nose death
162. Odor bubble
163. Odorama
164. One man jazz band
165. One-gun salute
166. Painting the elevator
167. Pant stainer
168. Panty burp
169. Parp
170. Party in your pants
171. Pass gas
172. Pass wind
173. Play the tuba
174. Playing the trouser tuba
175. Plotcher (aka a wet one ... bad form, points taken off for emmitting one of these)
176. Poof
177. Poop gas
178. Poot
179. Pop
180. Pop a fluffy
181. Preventing Spontaneous Human Combustion (South Park)
182. Prove it
183. Prupe (Norwegian--the E has two dots over it)
184. Puff, the Magic Dragon
185. Quack
186. Rebuild the ozone layer one poof at a time
187. Rectal honk
188. Rectal shout
189. Rectal tremor
190. Release a squeeker
191. Release an ass buscuit
192. Release gas
193. Rep
194. Rimshot
195. Rip ass
196. Rip one
197. Ripple fart
198. Roast the Jockeys
199. Rotting vegetation
200. Safety
201. Salute your shorts
202. SAS (silent and scentless)
203. SBD (silent but deadly)
204. Set off an SBD
205. Shit fumes
206. Shit honker
207. Shit vapor
208. Shoot the cannon
209. Shoppin' at Wal-Fart
210. Silent but deadly (SBD)
211. Singe the carpet
212. Singing the Anal Anthem
213. Skunk smells his own smell first!
214. Sounding the sphincter scale
215. Sounds like a barking spider
216. Sounds like a wompus cat
217. Sphincter song
218. Spit a brick
219. Squeak one out
220. Squeeker
221. Steamer
222. Step on a duck
223. Step on a frog
224. Stink bomb
225. Stink Burger
226. Strangling the stank monkey
227. Stress release
228. Tail wind
229. Telegraph from Ft. A-hole to Cmdr. Nostril announcing the arrival of Gen. Shat
230. That felt good
231. The closest you get to craping while standing up
232. The colonic calliope
233. The dog did it
234. The F bomb
235. The gluteal tuba
236. The Sound and the Fury
237. The stink's gone into the fabric
238. The third state of matter
239. The toothless one speaks
240. Thunder pants
241. Thunderspray
242. Toilet tune
243. Toot
244. Toot your own horn
245. Trelblow
246. Triple flutter blast
247. Trouser cough
248. Trouser trumpet
249. Turd honking
250. Turd hooties
251. Turn on the A/C in your large intestine
252. Uncorked symphony
253. Under burp
254. Venting one
255. Wet one
256. What smell?
257. What the dog did
258. Whoever smelt it dealt it
259. Wrong way burping
260. Your voice has changed, but your breath is still the same.
261. Zinger
QuoteSo how's the corporatist controlled government pension working out for you these days big D?
Which one are you talking about?
The one that i used to have and the company went broke and stole 75 percent of my money or the GOVT. Ponzi scam that I have been paying into all of my life that keeps telling me they are broke or I have to wait till I'm 70 to collect.
Are you for real or just another internet retard?
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:23:42 PM
QuoteSo how's the corporatist controlled government pension working out for you these days big D?
Which one are you talking about?
The one that i used to have and the company went broke and stole 75 percent of my money or the GOVT. Ponzi scam that I have been paying into all of my life that keeps telling me they are broke or I have to wait till I'm 70 to collect.
Are you for real or just another internet retard?
Bring me my spoon to collect these tears of bitterness
Well before tonight I thought I was just a ghost in the machine, but then I learned I was really a poish fox fag. So now I'm a little confused, I think I'll self identify as Mothra.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3g.scifiworld.es%2Fimages%2Fadjuntos%2F2014%2F07%2Fmothra.jpg&hash=3ad146a50924ee692716b1aaad5460036a4c2450)
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 07:56:54 PM
Longblade, It didn't take me much to know you are a FOX lap dog, and a liar!
Gosh, I don't take compliments very well but those are two of my best qualities.
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 08:27:22 PM
Well before tonight I thought I was just a ghost in the machine, but then I learned I was really a poish fox fag. So now I'm a little confused, I think I'll self identify as Mothra.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3g.scifiworld.es%2Fimages%2Fadjuntos%2F2014%2F07%2Fmothra.jpg&hash=3ad146a50924ee692716b1aaad5460036a4c2450)
No, Polish FOX Fag is all you need to know as an idenity. Be proud asshole!
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:10:55 PM
Star is not jelous, He probabably has a Gerbil signing a 2 year lease in his ass as we speak!
listen you little cum slurping menstrual chunk, don't bring you gerbil fixations here and try to foist them on me. I already have a Gus! if you want to be a grade A ass clown and show the forum what kind of small minded, limp dick moron you really are go ahead. the rest of us are having fun laughing at you and the raisin you call a mind.
you could just do us the favor and put a plastic shopping bag over your head and start hyperventilating until you die. at the very least it will save me 90 seconds at some future date from reading your darwin award article.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2a/94/32/2a943257662041ec4b8b7ebc97b8bc3d.jpg)
(https://i.imgflip.com/s0f8o.jpg)
Quote
Gosh, I don't take compliments very well but those are two of my best qualities.
Do you have qualities? I'm still looking for them!
Quotelisten you little cum slurping menstrual chunk, don't bring you gerbil fixations here and try to foist them on me. I already have a Gus! if you want to be a grade A ass clown and show the forum what kind of small minded, limp dick moron you really are go ahead. the rest of us are having fun laughing at you and the raisin you call a mind.
you could just do us the favor and put a plastic shopping bag over your head and start hyperventilating until you die. at the very least it will save me 90 seconds at some future date from reading your darwin award article.
Did a drama queen write something?
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:32:39 PM
Quote
Gosh, I don't take compliments very well but those are two of my best qualities.
Do you have qualities? I'm still looking for them!
LB has a stalker
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:34:56 PM
Quotelisten you little cum slurping menstrual chunk, don't bring you gerbil fixations here and try to foist them on me. I already have a Gus! if you want to be a grade A ass clown and show the forum what kind of small minded, limp dick moron you really are go ahead. the rest of us are having fun laughing at you and the raisin you call a mind.
you could just do us the favor and put a plastic shopping bag over your head and start hyperventilating until you die. at the very least it will save me 90 seconds at some future date from reading your darwin award article.
Did a drama queen write something?
Star is a queen of many things. Drag. Ass. Porn.
But he is no queen of drama.
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 08:36:08 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:32:39 PM
Quote
Gosh, I don't take compliments very well but those are two of my best qualities.
Do you have qualities? I'm still looking for them!
LB has a stalker
Puh-lease.
His is the latest of many.
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:32:39 PM
Quote
Gosh, I don't take compliments very well but those are two of my best qualities.
Do you have qualities? I'm still looking for them!
LB always gets the azztention while the rest of us spend our evenings unstalked and unloved. :'(
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 03, 2015, 08:37:27 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:32:39 PM
Quote
Gosh, I don't take compliments very well but those are two of my best qualities.
Do you have qualities? I'm still looking for them!
LB always gets the azztention while the rest of us spend our evenings unstalked and unloved. :'(
You do me
Then I'll do you
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 08:38:42 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 03, 2015, 08:37:27 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:32:39 PM
Quote
Gosh, I don't take compliments very well but those are two of my best qualities.
Do you have qualities? I'm still looking for them!
LB always gets the azztention while the rest of us spend our evenings unstalked and unloved. :'(
You do me
Then I'll do you
See. Lotsa love here. Dolan brings us together.
He's a lover, not a fighter.
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 03, 2015, 08:37:27 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:32:39 PM
Quote
Gosh, I don't take compliments very well but those are two of my best qualities.
Do you have qualities? I'm still looking for them!
LB always gets the azztention while the rest of us spend our evenings unstalked and unloved. :'(
He called me ASS FUCK and now he's searching for LB's 'qualities'. Goddamned tease >:(
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 08:40:34 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 03, 2015, 08:37:27 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:32:39 PM
Quote
Gosh, I don't take compliments very well but those are two of my best qualities.
Do you have qualities? I'm still looking for them!
LB always gets the azztention while the rest of us spend our evenings unstalked and unloved. :'(
He called me ASS FUCK and now he's searching for LB's 'qualities'. Goddamned tease >:(
Maybe you're the rebound guy?
well, you do need to shave your ass. the winter fur is beginning to get thick.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 08:36:16 PM
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 03, 2015, 08:34:56 PM
Quotelisten you little cum slurping menstrual chunk, don't bring you gerbil fixations here and try to foist them on me. I already have a Gus! if you want to be a grade A ass clown and show the forum what kind of small minded, limp dick moron you really are go ahead. the rest of us are having fun laughing at you and the raisin you call a mind.
you could just do us the favor and put a plastic shopping bag over your head and start hyperventilating until you die. at the very least it will save me 90 seconds at some future date from reading your darwin award article.
Did a drama queen write something?
Star is a queen of many things. Drag. Ass. Porn.
But he is no queen of drama.
You forgot Dairy.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 03, 2015, 08:41:56 PM
well, you do need to shave your ass. the winter fur is beginning to get thick.
Shed. Poish Fox fags shed. They don't shave. It's a well know fact.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 03, 2015, 08:41:56 PM
well, you do need to shave your ass. the winter fur is beginning to get thick.
It gets cold up here in the winter. I need my ass fur.
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 08:44:12 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 03, 2015, 08:41:56 PM
well, you do need to shave your ass. the winter fur is beginning to get thick.
It gets cold up here in the winter. I need my ass fur.
Frozen dingle berries are a pain in the ass, if you know what I mean. ;)
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 08:44:12 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 03, 2015, 08:41:56 PM
well, you do need to shave your ass. the winter fur is beginning to get thick.
It gets cold up here in the winter. I need my ass fur.
I think it's kinda cute. 'Specially when you curl it.
Or moult
I believe there's a high price on the market for a mirths ass hair jacket and matching gloves
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 08:45:50 PM
Or moult
I believe there's a high price on the market for a mirths ass hair jacket and matching gloves
In America, we say "The poish Fox fag molts his fur." You English always befouling proper English with the over usage of the letter u.
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 08:48:47 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 08:45:50 PM
Or moult
I believe there's a high price on the market for a mirths ass hair jacket and matching gloves
In America, we say "The poish Fox fag molts his fur." You English always befouling proper English with the over usage of the letter u.
right..... We invented it, and you're complaining about its design flaws? You can't go chopping bits off willy nilly
Can we get back to talking aboot Syria now?
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 08:52:26 PM
Can we get back to talking aboot Syria now?
Weu suure caun.
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 08:51:33 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 08:48:47 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 08:45:50 PM
Or moult
I believe there's a high price on the market for a mirths ass hair jacket and matching gloves
In America, we say "The poish Fox fag molts his fur." You English always befouling proper English with the over usage of the letter u.
right..... We invented it, and you're complaining about its design flaws? You can't go chopping bits off willy nilly
We gained that right when we chopped off 13 colonies from the empire. :)
lmao you bunch of poish fox fags
"We're not going to make Syria into a proxy war between the United States and Russia," Obama insisted during an afternoon news conference at the White House. "This is not some superpower chessboard contest. And anybody who frames it in that way isn't paying very close attention to what's been happening on the chessboard."
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-obama-syria-russia-20151002-story.html
Uh...so...
Quote from: undercovergeek on October 03, 2015, 08:55:17 PM
lmao you bunch of poish fox fags
Don't forget, I'm a liar, too!
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 08:55:42 PM
"We're not going to make Syria into a proxy war between the United States and Russia," Obama insisted during an afternoon news conference at the White House. "This is not some superpower chessboard contest. And anybody who frames it in that way isn't paying very close attention to what's been happening on the chessboard."
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-obama-syria-russia-20151002-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-obama-syria-russia-20151002-story.html)
Uh...so...
Next he's going to declare, "Peace for our time".
You put an extra L in there, LLB.
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 09:04:18 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 08:55:42 PM
"We're not going to make Syria into a proxy war between the United States and Russia," Obama insisted during an afternoon news conference at the White House. "This is not some superpower chessboard contest. And anybody who frames it in that way isn't paying very close attention to what's been happening on the chessboard."
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-obama-syria-russia-20151002-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-obama-syria-russia-20151002-story.html)
Uh...so...
Next he's going to declare, "Peace for our time".
I thought they did that a few weeks ago with Kerry's Nobel Peace Prize worthy negotiations?
BTW, why is it that we have to insult the Poles here?
Why not someone else?
Like Icelanders.
Look at them with those suave Viking sweaters hot blonde women hot blonde men (sorry, forgot we're all homos now), and their unpronounceable volcano names. Nobody has all that in one tiny island and doesn't do something nefarious with it.
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 09:04:18 PM
Next he's going to declare, "Peace for our time".
That alone will net him another Nobel Peace Prize.
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 09:04:55 PM
You put an extra L in there, LLB.
Because we're British again?
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 09:06:33 PM
BTW, why is it that we have to insult the Poles here?
Why not someone else?
Like Icelanders.
Look at them with those suave Viking sweaters hot blonde women hot blonde men (sorry, forgot we're all homos now), and their unpronounceable volcano names. Nobody has all that in one tiny island and doesn't do something nefarious with it.
Don't get me started on Iceland. Bunch of geothermal energy loving homo-tards.
If only they spoke Gaelic in Iceland, then we'd really be onto something.
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 09:11:02 PM
If only they spoke Gaelic in Iceland, then we'd really be onto something.
Talk about niche hate.
It's the Icelandic sheep I really despise though.
Me too. I hate them so much.
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 09:32:06 PM
Me too. I hate them so much.
Enough talk of the hate sex.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 03, 2015, 09:57:04 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 09:32:06 PM
Me too. I hate them so much.
Enough talk of the hate sex.
Just the Icelandic sheep. Nothing but love for Maine sheep.
Quote from: Steelgrave on October 03, 2015, 09:06:54 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 09:04:18 PM
Next he's going to declare, "Peace for our time".
That alone will net him another Nobel Peace Prize.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Flongblade%2FGrogHeads%2F2d2f0a_123f813049ab4285912ed70bd10a.jpg.png&hash=e2f8fc95774bcf1613d37a079acd6c60ae766e7c)
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 09:05:34 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 03, 2015, 09:04:18 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 03, 2015, 08:55:42 PM
"We're not going to make Syria into a proxy war between the United States and Russia," Obama insisted during an afternoon news conference at the White House. "This is not some superpower chessboard contest. And anybody who frames it in that way isn't paying very close attention to what's been happening on the chessboard."
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-obama-syria-russia-20151002-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-obama-syria-russia-20151002-story.html)
Uh...so...
Next he's going to declare, "Peace for our time".
I thought they did that a few weeks ago with Kerry's Nobel Peace Prize worthy negotiations?
"We are not going to play chess during this chess tournament on this chessboard with these chess pieces here, because I can only play checkers." - here Mr. President, I fixed it for you.
It's amazing to see US foreign policy bungled this badly. It's like we've returned to the mid and late 70s.
Quote from: mirth on October 04, 2015, 11:27:45 AM
It's amazing to see US foreign policy bungled this badly. It's like we've returned to the mid and late 70s.
You said it, bro. In a way we are in this pile of dudu because of policy bungles in the late 70's.
Obama's incompetence is beyond shocking.
If Obama was in anyway clever, he'd be announcing establishment of permanent US air bases in Poland and Romania ASAP. That would spoil Putin's dinner.
Ugh. I can't believe I just read through those last 12 pages to catch up.
Quote from: Freyland on October 04, 2015, 04:08:03 PM
Ugh. I can't believe I just read through those last 12 pages to catch up.
I'm a little disappointed that I missed all the fun yesterday, because Polish Fox Fags are a special study of mine. At least things are back on topic.
I'm with Freyland. I go out for one Saturday night in the last, what...100? And this happens? I am so disgruntled. And I was very gruntled when I got here.
Quote from: Nefaro on October 04, 2015, 04:54:17 PM
Quote from: Freyland on October 04, 2015, 04:08:03 PM
Ugh. I can't believe I just read through those last 12 pages to catch up.
I'm a little disappointed that I missed all the fun yesterday, because Polish Fox Fags are a special study of mine. At least things are back on topic.
<chuckle>
Now you have half a dozen more of us to add to your studies!
Quote from: Gusington on October 04, 2015, 04:59:47 PM
I'm with Freyland. I go out for one Saturday night in the last, what...100? And this happens? I am so disgruntled. And I was very gruntled when I got here.
So you have no grunts to give?
I wouldn't go that far.
grunt for me hobbit!
What a bunch of FOX prograned homo-tards
Grunting is 5 dollah extra.
Quote from: mirth on October 04, 2015, 07:28:55 PM
What a bunch of FOX prograned homo-tards
Don't forget prograned poish!
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 04, 2015, 07:24:33 PM
grunt for me hobbit!
If he had a dollar every time he heard that, he'd have at least tree-fitty.
Quote from: Gusington on October 04, 2015, 08:21:16 PM
Grunting is 5 dollah extra.
Is that grunting or gruntling? Need to know, me being Poish and all.
Ha - your choice.
I can't believe I'm actually hoping for more news from / about Syria soon. PLEASE GOD SOOOONNN!!! :buck2:
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 05, 2015, 07:54:57 AM
I can't believe I'm actually hoping for more news from / about Syria soon. PLEASE GOD SOOOONNN!!! :buck2:
You mean on this thread or in general?
According to this (http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/sources-chinese-naval-vessel-located-off-syrian-coast/) "a Chinese naval vessel carrying dozens of 'military advisers' has crossed into the Mediterranean Sea and is awaiting further instructions to potentially dock in Syria.
More good news
http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-says-russian-warplane-violated-airspace-071941187.html (http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-says-russian-warplane-violated-airspace-071941187.html)
Why is this song in my head suddenly?
Wrong song. It should be that ditty by Europe.
Damn! Just caught-up on this thread! Good times!! ;D ::) >:D
I see this as possibly a good thing. After Putin sends all his men, tanks and warplanes to Dam-ass-cus, then we should be able to walk right in to Moscow. Or better yet, tell the Syrian refugees/ immigrants, "Free vodka and Health Care in Russia" and they'll do it for us. Maybe an exit off the Chunnel to Minsk. :uglystupid2:
This just keeps getting better
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/world/europe/nato-russia-warplane-turkey.html
Quote from: Greybriar on October 05, 2015, 08:49:10 AM
According to this (http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/sources-chinese-naval-vessel-located-off-syrian-coast/) "a Chinese naval vessel carrying dozens of 'military advisers' has crossed into the Mediterranean Sea and is awaiting further instructions to potentially dock in Syria.
Sure. Why not? Then it'll be a *real* party.
The genius of Obama continues to surprise.
I wonder if Putin forgets to stop at the Syrian Iraq boarder and grabs all of that oil. Plus a port into the Persian Gulf.
Even The NYTimes today basically said a regional war is much more badder fhan the original civil war that has been going onfor 4 years.
Quote from: Gusington on October 05, 2015, 06:17:22 PM
Even The NYTimes today basically said a regional war is much more badder fhan the original civil war that has been going onfor 4 years.
Gosh. Shame on them for staining the Nobel winner's legacy.
Saw a headline from the Washington Post which said Obama may be considering leaving 5000 troops in Afghanistan.
I wonder why?
The Taliban asked for advisers?
It's almost comical, the Russian ground forces on armed tours of foreign territory being constantly referred to as "volunteers" by President-For-Life Putin's regime.
Who the hell is actually buying that nonsense? I don't even think most Russians would. ::)
Now they say that their "volunteer" combat veterans in Ukraine will likely be joining the Syrian fight en masse. Uhh..
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F236x%2F4c%2F63%2Fb0%2F4c63b0fe150630c46ca78a6c17f0923c.jpg&hash=1ca70de9b5da6358d77820b98cc3fcfbfda55116)
The Warlords in the Donetsk and Luhansk pseudo-oblasts have got to be getting a little nervous about the Russian 'volunteers' being ordered to take an extended Mediterranean vaca.
Quote from: Nefaro on October 05, 2015, 06:58:06 PM
Who the hell is actually buying that nonsense? I don't even think most Russians would. ::)
The current administrations national security team.
Quote from: OJsDad on October 05, 2015, 07:40:49 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on October 05, 2015, 06:58:06 PM
Who the hell is actually buying that nonsense? I don't even think most Russians would. ::)
The current administrations national security team.
They would probably make that shit up for the Russians, themselves, if it actually helped the Admin look a bit better in the media.
And now Putin sends some little black men to Syria.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/putin-sent-feared-spetsnaz-special-6579970
Merely lost volunteers.
Did you see that a thermobaric artillery unit of lost volunteers was spotted in Ukraine?
Nope. Must have missed it.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 05, 2015, 06:29:22 PM
Saw a headline from the Washington Post which said Obama may be considering leaving 5000 troops in Afghanistan.
I wonder why?
Only 5,000? How optimistic!
Quote from: Greybriar on October 05, 2015, 09:49:39 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on October 05, 2015, 06:29:22 PM
Saw a headline from the Washington Post which said Obama may be considering leaving 5000 troops in Afghanistan.
I wonder why?
Only 5,000? How optimistic!
Gosh. I would have thought Obama could manage with 50.
It takes a large Carbon Footprint to fight Climate Change.
This administration will forever be studied as how to AVOID doing foreign policy.
Quote from: Greybriar on October 05, 2015, 09:49:39 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on October 05, 2015, 06:29:22 PM
Saw a headline from the Washington Post which said Obama may be considering leaving 5000 troops in Afghanistan.
I wonder why?
Only 5,000? How optimistic!
Nah, given the terrain, they could conceivably hold out for years, preventing the Sovs from pushing into Pakistan and India.
...wait, sorry, had a flashback to 1985 there.
In this article.
TOS-1
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34430072
QuoteRussian weatherwoman Yekaterina Grigorova said the weather forecast for Syria is cloudy, with a chance of airstrikes on Rossiya-24 state television.
Grigorova said, "It is a very opportune time to launch an air force operation. October is a good time for flying in Syria."
Before discussing the possibility of rain, clouds and sandstorms, Grigorova discussed a highlight video of Russian Aerospace Force successes in Syria.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/06/russian-weatherwoman-forecasts-clouds-with-chance-of-airstrikes-over-syria-video/
I did not make the connection between the Russians in Syria and the month of October until now...
...also, thermobaric weapons are scary as hell.
Quote from: pawelj on October 06, 2015, 04:04:17 AM
This administration will forever be studied as how to AVOID doing foreign policy.
+1
Quote from: LongBlade on October 05, 2015, 06:25:55 PM
Quote from: Gusington on October 05, 2015, 06:17:22 PM
Even The NYTimes today basically said a regional war is much more badder fhan the original civil war that has been going onfor 4 years.
Gosh. Shame on them for staining the Nobel winner's legacy.
;D
Is it just me, or does Putin just love to go out of his way to stick it to Obama personally?
In all likelihood Obama is going to be the most accommodating president that will sit in the oval office for the next 30 or more years. I would think Putin would be more clever about improving Russia's position at the cost of US interests, rather than so blunt and ham-fisted. Albeit, its more entertaining this way.
Quote from: Swatter on October 06, 2015, 05:37:27 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on October 05, 2015, 06:25:55 PM
Quote from: Gusington on October 05, 2015, 06:17:22 PM
Even The NYTimes today basically said a regional war is much more badder fhan the original civil war that has been going onfor 4 years.
Gosh. Shame on them for staining the Nobel winner's legacy.
;D
Is it just me, or does Putin just love to go out of his way to stick it to Obama personally?
In all likelihood Obama is going to be the most accommodating president that will sit in the oval office for the next 30 or more years. I would think Putin would be more clever about improving Russia's position at the cost of US interests, rather than so blunt and ham-fisted. Albeit, its more entertaining this way.
I don't think it is Obama, but the United States as a whole that he wants to humiliate. Obama just lets him do it.
Remember when Romney said during the last campaign that Russia would be the greatest challenge, and everyone laughed at him. Well, who's laughing now?
Assad.
And they lobbed in some cruise missiles for good measure
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/world/middleeast/russia-syria-conflict.html?_r=0
From the article:
QuoteThe use of 26 sea-based cruise missiles marked one of the first known uses in combat of Russian missiles with this range.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmemecrunch.com%2Fmeme%2FNTLA%2Fshrek%2Fimage.jpg&hash=7410787baba9752033ab25148c8de0a7d9dab35c)
Reportedly the cruise missiles overflew Iran and Iraq.
In Soviet Russia small penis compensates for you!
Boom! Seems to have been a precise operation.
According to the Russian propaganda video anyway.
Quote from: mirth on October 07, 2015, 11:34:10 AM
According to the Russian propaganda video anyway.
^ what I was thinking. I'd be curious to know how many ended up taking a bath in the Med.
So, Russian military operations can't be precise? Ok...
Israel just discovered a large deposit of oil in the Golan Heights
http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-huge-oil-discovery-on-golan-heights-1001071698
"Above and beyond the bureaucratic and environmental problems of pushing ahead with oil production, there are also the geopolitical considerations. The international community considers the Golan Heights, which was captured from Syria in 1967, as occupied territory and does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over the region."
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 07, 2015, 12:00:13 PM
So, Russian military operations can't be precise? Ok...
I wouldn't rely on a Russian YouTube video for a BDA. Better to wait for the weather girl to report on it.
Would you trust an American youtube video? ;)
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 07, 2015, 12:10:01 PM
Would you trust an American youtube video? ;)
Of what? And what does that have to do with the topic at hand?
If you want to accept a Russian propaganda video at face value, go for it.
Quote from: mirth on October 07, 2015, 12:16:31 PM
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 07, 2015, 12:10:01 PM
Would you trust an American youtube video? ;)
Of what? And what does that have to do with the topic at hand?
If you want to accept a Russian propaganda video at face value, go for it.
He's right. Everything on the internet is true.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 07, 2015, 12:18:53 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 07, 2015, 12:16:31 PM
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 07, 2015, 12:10:01 PM
Would you trust an American youtube video? ;)
Of what? And what does that have to do with the topic at hand?
If you want to accept a Russian propaganda video at face value, go for it.
He's right. Everything on the internet is true.
Whoops. My bad! :P
Oh boy... ::)
To assume that the Russian's can't hit the broad side of a barn with their missiles would be a dangerous misunderestimation (as GWB would say ;)) of their capabilities. They've made leaps of improvement in their capabilities since they last showcased it in Georgia in 2008. I'm by no means smart on the specifics, but it's never a good idea to underestimate your foe. I don't think they would have showcased this to the world if they weren't relatively confident it would put on a good show.
What I'm troubled by is that they crossed Iraqi airspace. Were the Iraqis consulted?
Yeah I'm with AB on this one.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Maliki government approved of the flyover of Iraqi airspace tbh.
I'm not saying they lack the capability. I'm just not inclined to accept that YouTube video as actual proof.
And yes, I find the overflight of Iraqis airspace disquieting. I'm a little bit surprised the Iranians went for it too. There's a big message behind launching that attack from the Caspian.
No there's clearly propaganda going on with it's publishing and I'm more inclined to be believe it's more intended for domestic than international consumption. It's been a few decades since the last overt Russian interventionist military actions.
QuoteI'm not saying they lack the capability. I'm just not inclined to accept that YouTube video as actual proof.
So you doubt their capability at least...
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 07, 2015, 12:58:35 PM
QuoteI'm not saying they lack the capability. I'm just not inclined to accept that YouTube video as actual proof.
So you doubt their capability at least...
He didn't say he doubted that they have capability.
Quote from: Bison on October 07, 2015, 01:00:39 PM
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 07, 2015, 12:58:35 PM
QuoteI'm not saying they lack the capability. I'm just not inclined to accept that YouTube video as actual proof.
So you doubt their capability at least...
He didn't say he doubted that they have capability.
Thanks. I was wondering how that was unclear.
Quote from: Bison on October 07, 2015, 12:58:14 PM
No there's clearly propaganda going on with it's publishing and I'm more inclined to be believe it's more intended for domestic than international consumption. It's been a few decades since the last overt Russian interventionist military actions.
That was my take away too. There's a lot of Russian propaganda stuff that we roll our eyes at, but we're not the intended audience. It just needs to convince the folks in the Motherland.
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 07, 2015, 12:00:13 PM
So, Russian military operations can't be precise? Ok...
Nyet!
If those missiles flew over Iran and Iraq they were not fired from the Med. Was it from Caspian sea?
Quote from: pawelj on October 07, 2015, 01:21:56 PM
If those missiles flew over Iran and Iraq they were not fired from the Med. Was it from Caspian sea?
Yes. Not sure what platforms they used to launch them.
Wouldn't you just love it if the missiles fired from their ships in the Caspian actually hit their own ships in the Med. :P
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 07, 2015, 01:26:25 PM
Quote from: pawelj on October 07, 2015, 01:21:56 PM
If those missiles flew over Iran and Iraq they were not fired from the Med. Was it from Caspian sea?
Yes. Not sure what platforms they used to launch them.
The betting money is on Buyans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyan-class_corvette (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyan-class_corvette)
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 07, 2015, 01:26:25 PM
Quote from: pawelj on October 07, 2015, 01:21:56 PM
If those missiles flew over Iran and Iraq they were not fired from the Med. Was it from Caspian sea?
Yes. Not sure what platforms they used to launch them.
According to Grim's video, they were ship launched from the Caspian Sea, off the coast of Iran.
Quote from: Bison on October 07, 2015, 01:00:39 PM
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 07, 2015, 12:58:35 PM
QuoteI'm not saying they lack the capability. I'm just not inclined to accept that YouTube video as actual proof.
So you doubt their capability at least...
He didn't say he doubted that they have capability.
I don't discount the possibility. My comment on splashing in the Med was only half joking - just wondering if they are close to where our capabilities are - able to put a cruise missile in the third buttonhole of the second soldier to the right.
As for Iraqi airspace...Iraq who? I'll bet ya a dollar the part of Iraqi airspace crossed over wasn't controlled by Maliki.
Iraqi airspace is controlled by whoever happens to be flying through it.
Quote from: mirth on October 07, 2015, 04:37:41 PM
Iraqi airspace is controlled by whoever happens to be flying through it.
Which is generally us at the moment, at Iraqi invitation. Things can get really interesting since we are in Syrian airspace uninvited and the Russians are in Iraqi airspace uninvited, with us in Iraqi airspace at the request of the Iraqis and the Russians in Syria at the request of the Syrians, or at least their government. What a mess!
Things like this can turn ugly fast:http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/politics/u-s-diverts-aircraft-to-avoid-russian-fighter/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/politics/u-s-diverts-aircraft-to-avoid-russian-fighter/index.html)
There's going to be a major incident. It's just a matter of time.
Quote from: mirth on October 07, 2015, 05:37:00 PM
There's going to be a major incident. It's just a matter of time.
I wouldn't be so sure. It looks like we're quite consistent in leading from behind.
QuoteThe two planes were F-16s that had departed from Turkey's Incirlik air base and were on their way to a location near the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa, , a senior defense official told CNN. The U.S. aircraft that diverted were not able to complete their mission, the official said.
Since the Russians began operating in Syrian airspace, U.S. pilots have been under orders to change their flight path if there is a Russian plane within 20 nautical miles, according to the official.
Davis said the incident happened in the last few days but offered few additional details.
"We are taking action to ensure" the planes don't come too close to each other, he said, indicating there had only been one incident so far. There is no sign the two aircraft communicated with each other.
And linked to the above story is this gem.
How CNN publishes this drivel with a straight face is a mystery to me.
QuoteSecretary of State John Kerry has raised the possibility of a no-fly zone in Syria to protect civilians even as President Barack Obama has consistently rejected the idea, several administration officials told CNN.
Officials said Kerry has asked his staff to further develop the idea and raised the issue at a National Security Council meeting last week, where Obama discussed the U.S. strategy for stemming the bloody civil war in Syria with his top advisers.
Kerry "wants to revisit this and for it to be looked at more seriously," one senior administration official said, adding that the secretary of state has been advocating within the administration for "more robust measures" in Syria.
source: http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/06/politics/john-kerry-no-fly-zone-syria-obama/
Quote from: LongBlade on October 07, 2015, 05:41:10 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 07, 2015, 05:37:00 PM
There's going to be a major incident. It's just a matter of time.
I wouldn't be so sure. It looks like we're quite consistent in leading from behind.
QuoteThe two planes were F-16s that had departed from Turkey's Incirlik air base and were on their way to a location near the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa, , a senior defense official told CNN. The U.S. aircraft that diverted were not able to complete their mission, the official said.
Since the Russians began operating in Syrian airspace, U.S. pilots have been under orders to change their flight path if there is a Russian plane within 20 nautical miles, according to the official.
Davis said the incident happened in the last few days but offered few additional details.
"We are taking action to ensure" the planes don't come too close to each other, he said, indicating there had only been one incident so far. There is no sign the two aircraft communicated with each other.
I'm fine with giving the Russians a wide berth. I don't one of our guys getting popped and then having the White House follow-up with a "strongly worded protest".
Quote from: LongBlade on October 07, 2015, 05:42:33 PM
And linked to the above story is this gem.
How CNN publishes this drivel with a straight face is a mystery to me.
QuoteSecretary of State John Kerry has raised the possibility of a no-fly zone in Syria to protect civilians even as President Barack Obama has consistently rejected the idea, several administration officials told CNN.
Officials said Kerry has asked his staff to further develop the idea and raised the issue at a National Security Council meeting last week, where Obama discussed the U.S. strategy for stemming the bloody civil war in Syria with his top advisers.
Kerry "wants to revisit this and for it to be looked at more seriously," one senior administration official said, adding that the secretary of state has been advocating within the administration for "more robust measures" in Syria.
source: http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/06/politics/john-kerry-no-fly-zone-syria-obama/ (http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/06/politics/john-kerry-no-fly-zone-syria-obama/)
Brilliant. ::)
Quote from: mirth on October 07, 2015, 05:37:00 PM
There's going to be a major incident. It's just a matter of time.
I would bet on it. The question will be does O apologize for his plane being shot down.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 07, 2015, 04:28:27 PM
As for Iraqi airspace...Iraq who? I'll bet ya a dollar the part of Iraqi airspace crossed over wasn't controlled by Maliki.
It would mostly likely be flying over Kurdish held territory. You know.. our only real allies in the whole region.
I'm sure they weren't consulted. Another statement from Putin, not just for Russian domestic consumption.
It looks like Iraq will be going to the Russians as well.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0S112120151007
They're shadowing our drones too
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/russia-intercepts-u-s-drones-over-syria-launches-crui-1735207541
Quote from: mirth on October 07, 2015, 12:52:51 PM
There's a big message behind launching that attack from the Caspian.
yeah, thats its not safe for them to operate anywhere else. :P
Why bother when they can do it from the Caspian?
This is getting to be a soap opera, except that real lives are being lost. I would give anything to sit in on Obama's national security briefings. Is there chaos? Ambivalence? Dumb-founded looks? Perhaps Obama is a master strategist and we peons simply cannot comprehend his complicated maneuvering that only appears to be stagnation and indecision.
If they don't straighten up soon, Obama's going to send Kerry over on his bicycle to set them straight. ::)
Quote from: LongBlade on October 07, 2015, 04:28:27 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 07, 2015, 01:00:39 PM
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 07, 2015, 12:58:35 PM
QuoteI'm not saying they lack the capability. I'm just not inclined to accept that YouTube video as actual proof.
So you doubt their capability at least...
He didn't say he doubted that they have capability.
I don't discount the possibility. My comment on splashing in the Med was only half joking - just wondering if they are close to where our capabilities are - able to put a cruise missile in the third buttonhole of the second soldier to the right.
As for Iraqi airspace...Iraq who? I'll bet ya a dollar the part of Iraqi airspace crossed over wasn't controlled by Maliki.
For starters Maliki is no longer in charge. It's Haider al-Abadi.
Nice summation from a Mid-east expert, posted over on Facebook
QuoteSyria really isn't so complicated. ISIS is fighting unbelievers (by mainly killing Muslims), the Turks are bombing ISIS (but really bombing Kurds), the Russians are attacking ISIS (but actually attacking the anti-ISIS opposition), Hizbullah is confronting Israel (by killing Syrians), the Saudis are fighting extremism (by backing extremists), and the Syrian regime is bombing terrorists (by slaughtering civilians with barrel bombs).
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 08, 2015, 05:10:28 AM
Nice summation from a Mid-east expert, posted over on Facebook
QuoteSyria really isn't so complicated. ISIS is fighting unbelievers (by mainly killing Muslims), the Turks are bombing ISIS (but really bombing Kurds), the Russians are attacking ISIS (but actually attacking the anti-ISIS opposition), Hizbullah is confronting Israel (by killing Syrians), the Saudis are fighting extremism (by backing extremists), and the Syrian regime is bombing terrorists (by slaughtering civilians with barrel bombs).
Everybody loses.
Except Assad & Vlad
Quote from: pawelj on October 08, 2015, 04:43:34 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on October 07, 2015, 04:28:27 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 07, 2015, 01:00:39 PM
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 07, 2015, 12:58:35 PM
QuoteI'm not saying they lack the capability. I'm just not inclined to accept that YouTube video as actual proof.
So you doubt their capability at least...
He didn't say he doubted that they have capability.
I don't discount the possibility. My comment on splashing in the Med was only half joking - just wondering if they are close to where our capabilities are - able to put a cruise missile in the third buttonhole of the second soldier to the right.
As for Iraqi airspace...Iraq who? I'll bet ya a dollar the part of Iraqi airspace crossed over wasn't controlled by Maliki.
For starters Maliki is no longer in charge. It's Haider al-Abadi.
Yeah. Happy looking fellow, isn't he?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/%D0%92%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80_%D0%9F%D1%83%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD_%D0%B8_%D0%A5%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80_%D0%90%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8_2.jpg/1280px-%D0%92%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80_%D0%9F%D1%83%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD_%D0%B8_%D0%A5%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80_%D0%90%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8_2.jpg)
I really have mixed feelings about the whole middle eastern situation.
On the one hand, I could care less if Russia bleeds and bankrupts itself by getting militarily involved in Syria and Iraq. And if they can bring some stability to that region, fine. More power to them.
On the other hand I am somewhat concerned about a Russian-powered Shia regional super-state stretching from Iran to Syria.
Syria today is a bit like Spain in the 30's. So far we had Austria (Crimea), Czechoslovakia - Sudetenland (Eastern Ukraine). Now Spain (Syria).
Where will we see Poland - it probably won't be Poland this time.
Hi. Is this where I buy tickets to WWIII?
Quote from: Gusington on October 08, 2015, 09:58:52 AM
Hi. Is this where I buy tickets to WWIII?
Quite possibly. Remember, that's the spiritual goal of the mullahs in Iran.
Quote from: Swatter on October 07, 2015, 07:53:47 PM
This is getting to be a soap opera, except that real lives are being lost. I would give anything to sit in on Obama's national security briefings. Is there chaos? Ambivalence? Dumb-founded looks? Perhaps Obama is a master strategist and we peons simply cannot comprehend his complicated maneuvering that only appears to be stagnation and indecision.
I think I can imagine what's going on through Obama's mind.
For starters we need to recognize his philosophy for what it is. The word isn't fashionable any more, but he's an Isolationist. Plain and simple. IMHO he believes if we stop "meddling" in other nations' affairs then they'll leave us alone.
As for Syria, there's something of a case to be made for letting them all kill each other. They're doing an excellent job of that now without much help from us. And this dovetails perfectly with Obama's Isolationism.
I could go on, but it seems to me that seeing Obama as an Isolationist explains virtually everything about his foreign policy. No wonder Hillary didn't accomplish anything. Her orders were to withdraw on all fronts. In that light it's difficult to blame her for a lack of accomplishments, since the president never wanted her - us - the US - to do anything other than put the car in reverse and keep it there.
I don't think he's an isolationist. He's had no problem ramping up drone strikes, for one. Agree with the policy or not, taking people out on foreign soil is pretty interventionist.
He and his administration simply seem far more interested in pushing a domestic agenda before the clock runs out. There's apparently no interest in a cohesive foreign policy. Even an isolationist foreign policy would be more coherent than the current lack of any plan.
Quote from: mirth on October 08, 2015, 10:31:37 AM
I don't think he's an isolationist. He's had no problem ramping up drone strikes, for one. Agree with the policy or not, taking people out on foreign soil is pretty interventionist.
He and his administration simply seem far more interested in pushing a domestic agenda before the clock runs out. There's apparently no interest in a cohesive foreign policy. Even an isolationist foreign policy would be more coherent than the current lack of any plan.
Don't think he's isolationist. I think he's just way over his head in foreign policy, or he's just a pussy.
Imo, he's far more the appeaser than the isolationist.
Heh. I never said he as a competent isolationist!
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 07, 2015, 01:26:25 PM
Quote from: pawelj on October 07, 2015, 01:21:56 PM
If those missiles flew over Iran and Iraq they were not fired from the Med. Was it from Caspian sea?
Yes. Not sure what platforms they used to launch them.
Found a report on that:
QuoteThe naval strikes on Wednesday were the first known operational use of state-of-the-art SSN-30A Kalibr cruise missiles, which were still being tested by the Russian navy in August.
source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/syrian-activists-russian-air-strikes-pound-rebel-zones-in-latest-blows/2015/10/07/fb3be168-5cf3-4e38-98f3-f6b75ed53871_story.html
Ok, it seems the time for airstrikes only is coming to an end:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/610143/Islamic-State-ISIS-Putin-Spetsnaz-Syria-special-forces-airstrikes (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/610143/Islamic-State-ISIS-Putin-Spetsnaz-Syria-special-forces-airstrikes)
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 08, 2015, 11:11:00 AM
Ok, it seems the time for airstrikes only is coming to an end:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/610143/Islamic-State-ISIS-Putin-Spetsnaz-Syria-special-forces-airstrikes (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/610143/Islamic-State-ISIS-Putin-Spetsnaz-Syria-special-forces-airstrikes)
Perhaps the ultimate motivation for Russia:
Quote
"They are there to mop up after air strikes, call in air strikes, go on extremely covert missions against rebels and ultimately wipe them out.
"And they will not be as accountable as British or US special forces. They are there for one reason, to wipe out anyone threatening Assad. By any means. And by doing that they will be consolidating Russia's position on the Med and in the Middle East."
If they were only there to battle ISIS, I would offer nothing but applause. But they are really there to help Assad regain control over all of Syria. Which means moderate, freedom-seeking democratic rebel forces will be Russian targets too.
And when they're done in Syria, they can slide right over to Iraq.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/07/the-men-who-pretend-to-be-syrian-refugees-greece/
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 08, 2015, 11:33:02 AM
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/07/the-men-who-pretend-to-be-syrian-refugees-greece/ (https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/07/the-men-who-pretend-to-be-syrian-refugees-greece/)
Gee, if only someone could have foreseen this problem :uglystupid2:
Quote from: Centurion40 on October 08, 2015, 11:24:22 AM
"They are there to mop up after air strikes, call in air strikes, go on extremely covert missions
As opposed to casually covert missions?
QuoteIf they were only there to battle ISIS, I would offer nothing but applause. But they are really there to help Assad regain control over all of Syria
In Putins view, which he stated many times, this is not an either/or question. So they are not only there to battle the IS, but they will also battle them - and this will be the first time a highly trained military force is going against them on the ground. And that's a good thing in my book.
Quote from: mirth on October 08, 2015, 10:31:37 AM
I don't think he's an isolationist. He's had no problem ramping up drone strikes, for one. Agree with the policy or not, taking people out on foreign soil is pretty interventionist.
He and his administration simply seem far more interested in pushing a domestic agenda before the clock runs out. There's apparently no interest in a cohesive foreign policy. Even an isolationist foreign policy would be more coherent than the current lack of any plan.
This.
I think of it as, basically, the direct opposite of Kennedy's approach to the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kowtowing interspersed with indecision self-serving fabrications and denial.
Opps.
"Russian cruise missiles intended for targets in Syria hit Iran instead"
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/08/russian-cruise-missiles-intended-for-targets-in-syria-hit-iran-instead/?intcmp=hpbt3
Quote from: Marty Ward on October 08, 2015, 12:36:07 PM
Opps.
"Russian cruise missiles intended for targets in Syria hit Iran instead"
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/08/russian-cruise-missiles-intended-for-targets-in-syria-hit-iran-instead/?intcmp=hpbt3 (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/08/russian-cruise-missiles-intended-for-targets-in-syria-hit-iran-instead/?intcmp=hpbt3)
But the YouTube video made it look so precise and flawless! :crazy2:
And this is why I was surprised the Iranians allowed the overflight. Of course there probably isn't much for them to crash into in Northern Iran anyway. Still, not a great plan to have cruise missiles crashing into your territory.
Quote from: Marty Ward on October 08, 2015, 12:36:07 PM
Opps.
"Russian cruise missiles intended for targets in Syria hit Iran instead"
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/08/russian-cruise-missiles-intended-for-targets-in-syria-hit-iran-instead/?intcmp=hpbt3
I was waiting for something like this.
The Russians, of course, report that all missiles hit their targets without civilian casualties.
If you believe that I have a war plan for you that's guaranteed to take Moscow before winter.
BTW, that failure rate (about 15%) is not surprising for a new and relatively untried weapon system like a cruise missile. And it's rather better than what you might expect from Russian technology :P
Makes me wonder how many they had fail on launch. They might have had to fire 40-50, just to get 26 on the way.
Quote from: mirth on October 08, 2015, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Marty Ward on October 08, 2015, 12:36:07 PM
Opps.
"Russian cruise missiles intended for targets in Syria hit Iran instead"
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/08/russian-cruise-missiles-intended-for-targets-in-syria-hit-iran-instead/?intcmp=hpbt3 (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/08/russian-cruise-missiles-intended-for-targets-in-syria-hit-iran-instead/?intcmp=hpbt3)
But the YouTube video made it look so precise and flawless! :crazy2:
Well to be fair they only missed by ~1600 km's. That is on target for some!
Quote from: mirth on October 08, 2015, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Marty Ward on October 08, 2015, 12:36:07 PM
Opps.
"Russian cruise missiles intended for targets in Syria hit Iran instead"
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/08/russian-cruise-missiles-intended-for-targets-in-syria-hit-iran-instead/?intcmp=hpbt3 (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/08/russian-cruise-missiles-intended-for-targets-in-syria-hit-iran-instead/?intcmp=hpbt3)
But the YouTube video made it look so precise and flawless! :crazy2:
orange juice squirting from every orrifice!! :2funny:
Quote from: Nefaro on October 08, 2015, 11:54:07 AM
Quote from: mirth on October 08, 2015, 10:31:37 AM
I don't think he's an isolationist. He's had no problem ramping up drone strikes, for one. Agree with the policy or not, taking people out on foreign soil is pretty interventionist.
He and his administration simply seem far more interested in pushing a domestic agenda before the clock runs out. There's apparently no interest in a cohesive foreign policy. Even an isolationist foreign policy would be more coherent than the current lack of any plan.
This.
I think of it as, basically, the direct opposite of Kennedy's approach to the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kowtowing interspersed with indecision self-serving fabrications and denial.
I'm going to stick with my isolationist assessment.
Kowtowing, indecision, and self-serving fabrications aside what has been the trajectory of the US?
Withdrawal.
Obama broke Libya and refused to pay for it.
He took a stable situation in Iraq and withdrew, The resulting chaos is irrelevant to an isolationist - he doesn't think we should be there at all. I suspect the only reason why he was lobbing cruise missiles and half-hearted air strikes is not because he wants to be there, but because he is afraid of the results of his isolationism - the complete collapse of the middle east.
That he's inconsistent in his isolationism isn't unique to US foreign policy. If Obama were actually bright enough to study the issue he'd discover that other presidents have had rather large exceptions in their foreign policies. Those exceptions were explained away as Realpolitik.
Now I don't think the collective brain trust around him is capable of studying history long enough to formulate anything so coherent as a isolationist policy peppered with Realpolitik, but after the dust settles that's going to be about as rational a label as can be placed on his actions, even if he himself wasn't capable of understanding what it was he was trying to do.
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 08, 2015, 11:45:39 AM
So they are not only there to battle the IS, but they will also battle them - and this will be the first time a highly trained military force is going against them on the ground. And that's a good thing in my book.
i imagine itll be the same as the airstrikes - over heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere are IS, over theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere are the rebels, we bomb over heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere, the russians bomb over theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere
'we have have air dropped our spetnatz teams right at the heart of the problem, all the way over theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere'
Quote from: Marty Ward on October 08, 2015, 01:01:33 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 08, 2015, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Marty Ward on October 08, 2015, 12:36:07 PM
Opps.
"Russian cruise missiles intended for targets in Syria hit Iran instead"
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/08/russian-cruise-missiles-intended-for-targets-in-syria-hit-iran-instead/?intcmp=hpbt3 (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/08/russian-cruise-missiles-intended-for-targets-in-syria-hit-iran-instead/?intcmp=hpbt3)
But the YouTube video made it look so precise and flawless! :crazy2:
Well to be fair they only missed by ~1600 km's. That is on target for some!
As far as I'm concerned, the Russians can crash as many cruise missiles into Iran as they want.
I'm waiting to see how far off the map the Spetnaz end up. Any bets on them parachuting into Tehran by accident?
Quote from: LongBlade on October 08, 2015, 01:09:38 PM
I'm waiting to see how far off the map the Spetnaz end up. Any bets on them parachuting into Tehran by accident?
There could be Daesh hiding there!
Quote from: LongBlade on October 08, 2015, 01:09:38 PM
I'm waiting to see how far off the map the Spetnaz end up. Any bets on them parachuting into Tehran by accident?
Iran, no. At least nothing that will get reported. Same with Iraqi controlled territory.
Turkey or any Kurdish areas are another question entirely. I could see them "accidentally" probing Turkish or Kurdish controlled areas. Hopefully they'll get their hats handed to them by the Turks. Kurds... who knows.
My instinct is to think that sending troops into a NATO member country would be a bad idea. Then I remember how utterly impotent NATO has been in dealing with Russia to this point.
China may join Russia in the fight. There's also a report of a Chinese carrier on its way to the Med in this report.
QuoteReports emanating from the Middle East last week said China was planning on joining the fight against ISIS "in the coming weeks", according to a Syrian army official.
While Beijing insists it will abide by the United Nations (UN) in the region, hints of an action were backed up when it spoke strongly about a coordinated response to the rising terrorist threat.
Speaking of the Syrian crisis China's foreign minister Wang Yi said at the UN Security Council session in New York: "The world cannot afford to stand by and look on with folded arms, but must also not arbitrarily interfere."
He added that nations should stand united against "violent extremist ideology".
Mr Wang and his opposite number in Russia, Sergey Lavrov met at length last week and afterwards Mr Lavrov said the two countries are in "similar positions" on many domestic and international issues.
source: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/610286/China-preparing-to-team-up-with-Russia-in-Syria-Boost-for-Putin-in-battle-against-ISIS
Quote from: LongBlade on October 08, 2015, 02:09:29 PM
China may join Russia in the fight. There's also a report of a Chinese carrier on its way to the Med in this report.
QuoteReports emanating from the Middle East last week said China was planning on joining the fight against ISIS "in the coming weeks", according to a Syrian army official.
While Beijing insists it will abide by the United Nations (UN) in the region, hints of an action were backed up when it spoke strongly about a coordinated response to the rising terrorist threat.
Speaking of the Syrian crisis China's foreign minister Wang Yi said at the UN Security Council session in New York: "The world cannot afford to stand by and look on with folded arms, but must also not arbitrarily interfere."
He added that nations should stand united against "violent extremist ideology".
Mr Wang and his opposite number in Russia, Sergey Lavrov met at length last week and afterwards Mr Lavrov said the two countries are in "similar positions" on many domestic and international issues.
source: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/610286/China-preparing-to-team-up-with-Russia-in-Syria-Boost-for-Putin-in-battle-against-ISIS
In the 1970s, I once read a Christian fundamentalist comic book interpreting the description of the Battle of Armageddon in the Book of Revelations.
From Revelations 9
Quote
The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3 And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were not allowed to kill them but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes. 6 During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.
7 The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. 8 Their hair was like women's hair, and their teeth were like lions' teeth. 9 They had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. 10
The comic said that John of Patmos actually saw attack helicopters and had no other way to describe them.
Quote
"Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates." 15 And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand. I heard their number.
17 The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur. 18 A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths. 19 The power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails were like snakes, having heads with which they inflict injury.
The Euphrates River plays a role, with possible descriptions of chemical weapons, along with firearms, cannons, rockets, etc.
From Revelations 16
Quote
12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.
15 "Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed."
16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, "It is done!" 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed.
Kings from the East = China, Iran, and maybe Russia
Armageddon is supposedly a place in Israel between the West Bank and the Golan Heights.
Line 18 could possible refer to a nuclear exchange
Revelations 18: Babylon is the capital of the enemies of God
Quote
18 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2 With a mighty voice he shouted:
"'Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!'[a]
She has become a dwelling for demons
and a haunt for every impure spirit,
a haunt for every unclean bird,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.
3 For all the nations have drunk
the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."
Revelations 20
Quote
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Gog and Magog have been interpreted as Scythians and Mongols, Russians and Chinese, or Iranian nomadic peoples. Also people living around or north of the Black Sea, and neat the Great Wall.
You can see how this comic captured my imagination, has stuck with me to this day; and comes to mind in the current involvement of Russians, Chinese and Iranians in Iraq and Syria. And now a discovery of oil near the Golan, near Armageddon. Wild!
Time to break out some books on the subject that I haven't read for awhile.
This report says *at least* four Russian missiles crashed in Iran.
http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/08/russian-missiles-aim-for-syria-hit-iran-instead/
This report says 26 missiles in total were launched.
QuoteRussian officials had said 26 cruise missiles were launched at 11 Islamic State targets, which were destroyed without causing any civilian casualties.
So, yes Mirth, your 15% failure rate was on the money.
source: http://www.voanews.com/content/nato-slams-russia-escalation-in-syria/2996565.html
We are no where near a major war here. The major parties (US and Russia) are only involved for domestic political reasons. Obama is involved because he is forced. Obama, politically, cannot ignore ISIS beheading Americans. Taking military action in the Middle East is the last thing he wants to do in the first place. Putin is in it for different reasons which probably include boosting his internal image as a leader who can humiliate America with impunity. Russia is the definition of paper tiger and Putin knows it. I have no doubt the Putin believes he has Obama figured out and so far he has been correct. Could he push Obama too far? Short of some insane provocation, Obama will not put up resistance. This is all just political theater to Putin, so I think he will rationally and carefully poke at the US, as long as it brings him easy political gain.
I just don't see the national interests of US and Russia conflicting enough to amount to anything. Perhaps I am wrong, Putin could be trying for a major power grab in the Middle East, but I don't think the Russian military has the ability to support a major military effort in Syria. In short, Syrians are just going to continue killing each other until one side has achieved enough foreign aid to achieve a decisive advantage. I think Iran will be the real winner in all of this.
Quote from: Swatter on October 08, 2015, 04:28:36 PM
We are no where near a major war here.
Maybe, but no one thought much of it at first when Franz Ferdinand got popped.
http://www.wearethemighty.com/intel/russian-forecaster-bombing-syria
Quote from: mirth on October 08, 2015, 04:49:04 PM
Quote from: Swatter on October 08, 2015, 04:28:36 PM
We are no where near a major war here.
Maybe, but no one thought much of it at first when Franz Ferdinand got popped.
I don't think the US and Russia and/or China are going to cross swords.
However, the Iranian leadership has a belief system that encourages them to invite apocalypse.
Details here: http://worldnews.about.com/od/iran/f/12thimam.htm
I don't think they are either, but it's this kind of Charlie Foxtrot that leads to even bigger Charlie Foxtrots.
Considering Russia a paper tiger is never a good idea. Ask Napoleon or Hitler. That said, neither Russia or China is near the military level of the United States right now. But what is disturbing to us as Americans is that the perception is that American power is on the decline while Russia and China's power is perceived to be on the rise.
The situation in the Middle East right now is new and really complex - who would have thought this new mess up in 1990 when Saddam Hussein's Iraq invaded Kuwait?
Quote from: mirth on October 08, 2015, 04:49:04 PM
Quote from: Swatter on October 08, 2015, 04:28:36 PM
We are no where near a major war here.
Maybe, but no one thought much of it at first when Franz Ferdinand got popped.
At least one guy saw it coming though...
"One day the great European War will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Balkans." -Otto Von Bismarck
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 08, 2015, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 08, 2015, 04:49:04 PM
Quote from: Swatter on October 08, 2015, 04:28:36 PM
We are no where near a major war here.
Maybe, but no one thought much of it at first when Franz Ferdinand got popped.
At least one guy saw it coming though...
"One day the great European War will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Balkans." -Otto Von Bismarck
Otto was quite the prophet as it turned out.
Quote"Jena came twenty years after the death of Frederick the Great; the crash will come twenty years after my departure if things go on like this" - a prophecy fulfilled with the Kaiser's abdication almost twenty years to the day after Bismarck's death.
In all fairness to history Bismarck did have a hand in the beginning of the end. In his attempt to safeguard the new German nation he had so many diplomatic plates spinning on poles that when Kaiser Bill sacked him there was no worthy successor sorcerer's apprentice step in and take over the circus act.
A point I saw on FB. Not sure how 100% valid it all is, but even if halfway valid, still concerning
QuoteNot only would Britain or Spain be unable to mount the sort of air campaign the Russians are waging in Syria. They cannot run a huge space programme, develop rockets like the Angara rockets, build a space centre like Vostochny, develop the Arctic, construct nuclear powered ice breakers, or feed themselves. Nor can they build a bridge as rapidly as the one the Russians are building to Crimea. Nor can they create alternatives to Google like Yandex, or alternatives to GPS like GLONASS, or alternatives to SWIFT like the Russians have done in just a few months.
In military production, any idea any European state can simultaneously develop fifth generation fighters like the SU T50, tanks like the Armata, submarines like the Yasen and the Borei, or missiles like the Bulava and the Yars, is sheer fantasy. Russia does all these things, and much else.
It does them without strain. In the middle of a recession Russia's budget deficit is 3% of GDP — less than Britain's or Spain's; and roughly the same as the US. Its balance of trade is in surplus. So far from being financially exhausted, Russia has far lower levels of debt than any Western state.
but their subs, planes and tanks arent equal to what NATO already has.
the Russian economy isnt as robust as most other western systems are.
I'm not quite ready to relocate to the Worker's Paradise.
Quote from: mirth on October 08, 2015, 08:25:36 PM
I'm not quite ready to relocate to the Worker's Paradise.
Perhaps you should tour their vodka dens, and peruse their bar flies before making such a definite statement! ;)
Quote from: Centurion40 on October 08, 2015, 08:39:02 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 08, 2015, 08:25:36 PM
I'm not quite ready to relocate to the Worker's Paradise.
Perhaps you should tour their vodka dens, and peruse their bar flies before making such a definite statement! ;)
Pics?
Before WWI there was a very delicate alliance system that was inherently unstable. Not only that, many Europeans still viewed war through rose colored glasses and were all too eager to rush off to war. I don't like the WWI or WWII comparisons.
The Russian economy with low oil prices is less than robust. Perhaps in the future if oil prices sky rocket again, they might be able to rebuild their military. As of now, you are probably seeing most of their frontline, combat capable stuff deployed near Ukraine and in Syria. Its an empty power play, IMO. Obama could call the bluff at any time, especially in Syria.
I have no doubt NATO could defeat Russia easily with just a little ramp up time. Not invade Russia mind you, but simply to check aggression. I have huge respect for Russian military history and prowess, but these days their military is a rusted out shell of its former glory.
Quote from: Swatter on October 08, 2015, 10:00:09 PM
Before WWI there was a very delicate alliance system that was inherently unstable. Not only that, many Europeans still viewed war through rose colored glasses and were all too eager to rush off to war. I don't like the WWI or WWII comparisons.
The Russian economy with low oil prices is less than robust. Perhaps in the future if oil prices sky rocket again, they might be able to rebuild their military. As of now, you are probably seeing most of their frontline, combat capable stuff deployed near Ukraine and in Syria. Its an empty power play, IMO. Obama could call the bluff at any time, especially in Syria.
I have no doubt NATO could defeat Russia easily with just a little ramp up time. Not invade Russia mind you, but simply to check aggression. I have huge respect for Russian military history and prowess, but these days their military is a rusted out shell of its former glory.
The Russian military wouldn't have to sweep across the whole of Western Europe these days. It just has to cause enough problems/casualties to make POTUS and NATO concede to their will, which would be easy these days considering the leadership. The latter have been forced to show their hands, since Putin's regime has repeatedly been testing the limits of their bluffing in numerous ways.
Besides, they obviously have long-term goals being worked towards. Their forces and capabilities aren't remaining static. Must plan for tomorrow's war, and not expect it to be todays' (and all that).
You mention, "Obama could call their bluff at any time in Syria" but he does the opposite. Such behavior will be expected in future Russian moves, so the cat is out of the bag now. The line will just keep being pushed with the current POTUS, because it can be.
We shouldn't underestimate what the Russian-Chinese-Iranian axis could eventually accomplish, especially now that they are getting an idea of what they can potentially get away with in international politics. I expect further expansionist moves from them in the coming years & decades since their initial aggressive moves have warranted little reaction from the rest of the world. So many similarities to past Nationalism stoking lead-ups, it's difficult to miss.
Any time now?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11920013/Heres-how-World-War-Three-could-start-tomorrow.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11920013/Heres-how-World-War-Three-could-start-tomorrow.html)
QuoteWe shouldn't underestimate what the Russian-Chinese-Iranian axis could eventually accomplish, especially now that they are getting an idea of what they can potentially get away with in international politics. I expect further expansionist moves from them in the coming years & decades since their initial aggressive moves have warranted little reaction from the rest of the world. So many similarities to past Nationalism stoking lead-ups, it's difficult to miss.
Reading this and skimming the article that Pawel linked, specifically:
Quote
But bigger trends are at play globally. We are seeing the return of great power politics – and with it, the risk of powerful states going to war. Conflict with the likes of Russia or China was something that seemed buried with the end of the Cold War. Yet today's simmering tensions mean there is a risk of such an outcome becoming all too real.
all has me thinking 'what if we/NATO/US didn't oppose them in the Middle East? Would there be no WWIII? If "we" didn't oppose them, and focused our talents on producing an inexpense alternative oil; then what would happen? I would think that, in short order, each of their national interests would conflict and they'd turn on each other. Boohoo.
Quote from: Centurion40 on October 09, 2015, 07:34:01 AM
all has me thinking 'what if we/NATO/US didn't oppose them in the Middle East? Would there be no WWIII? If "we" didn't oppose them, and focused our talents on producing an inexpense alternative oil; then what would happen? I would think that, in short order, each of their national interests would conflict and they'd turn on each other. Boohoo.
Unopposed in the Middle East and elsewhere the aggressor nations would build their strengths over time until they could roll over the nations who could have defeated them when they were weaker.
I know this isn't going to be a popular point of view but...there is a lot of logic behind what Russia is doing in the Middle East and it is not all counter to the interests of the west. You have to understand the Russians' perspective on this; since the end of the Cold War they have watched us invade Somalia, the former Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, and Iraq, and they have watched us support revolutions throughout the Middle East and on their border in Ukraine (except for the last example, all of these occurred without any significant resistance or interference from Russia). From their perspective, and they are not entirely wrong, these actions have resulted in unprecedented chaos throughout the region.
Putin's view (and his view is very typically Russian) is that toppling existing governments and security structures is a bad idea because it brings about chaos, and now they see us trying to do the same thing in Syria by supporting the Syrian opposition. The stalemated Syrian civil war has spawned the greatest humanitarian crisis since WWII as thirty million refugees are trying to escape the the greater middle east and Europe. At this point the Russians can reasonably make the argument that it's better to back someone who has a chance of winning (Assad) and end the conflict as quickly as possible than to continue to let it simmer feeding insignificant amounts of aid to groups that are unlikely to make a significant difference or who have questionable loyalties.
Regarding ISIS, there are really only three ways they can be defeated right now. 1. We need to go in with our own ground troops for a protracted ground campaign against them. 2. We need to go full bore backing someone acceptable to us who has the capabilities to defeat ISIS (the Kurds), or 3. We need to support or at least get out of the way of the other powerful player who has the capability to defeat ISIS (Assad).
-We don't have the will to do number 1.
-We can't do number 2 because the Turks (our NATO allies) will throw a fit, and keeping the alliance together is far more important than any of these other considerations.
-That leaves us with number 3, which the Russians are executing (we can't because, again, the Turks hate Assad, and he's a bastard who used chemical weapons on his own people).
Now, the bill to pay for letting the Russians into Syria (because short of war there is realistically nothing we can do to prevent them from doing what they are doing) is handing them a base in the eastern Med from which their area denial systems can dominate the eastern Med and the Suez canal (just like Kaliningrad allows them to deny access to the Baltic and Crimea denies access to the Black Sea, Danube delta, and the Dardanelles).
Standard disclaimer, I'm not saying the Russians are right, but I do think their actions are understandable. And quite frankly, the war in Syria needs to end, even if it ends with Assad in charge. If the Russians bring that about, it will actually relieve much of the migrant pressure on Europe, and that's a good thing for us.
That's a good analysis, but that doesn't explain why Putin is being needlessly provocative.
Quote from: Swatter on October 09, 2015, 12:01:17 PM
That's a good analysis, but that doesn't explain why Putin is being needlessly provocative.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/world/europe/in-putins-syria-intervention-fear-of-a-weak-government-hand.html
Quote
Putin's view (and his view is very typically Russian) is that toppling existing governments and security structures is a bad idea because it brings about chaos, and now they see us trying to do the same thing in Syria by supporting the Syrian opposition. The stalemated Syrian civil war has spawned the greatest humanitarian crisis since WWII as thirty million refugees are trying to escape the the greater middle east and Europe. At this point the Russians can reasonably make the argument that it's better to back someone who has a chance of winning (Assad) and end the conflict as quickly as possible than to continue to let it simmer feeding insignificant amounts of aid to groups that are unlikely to make a significant difference or who have questionable loyalties.
Regarding ISIS, there are really only three ways they can be defeated right now. 1. We need to go in with our own ground troops for a protracted ground campaign against them. 2. We need to go full bore backing someone acceptable to us who has the capabilities to defeat ISIS (the Kurds), or 3. We need to support or at least get out of the way of the other powerful player who has the capability to defeat ISIS (Assad).
-We don't have the will to do number 1.
-We can't do number 2 because the Turks (our NATO allies) will throw a fit, and keeping the alliance together is far more important than any of these other considerations.
-That leaves us with number 3, which the Russians are executing (we can't because, again, the Turks hate Assad, and he's a bastard who used chemical weapons on his own people).
Perfectly logical.
He could even say (and probably has) that whole bad situation is the US' fault for needlessly knocking-off Saddam.
Still my distrust of Putin's intentions remains strong.
Migsy posted this on FB:
http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2015/10/dont-chase-putin-out-syria/122686/
Quote
Don't Chase Putin Out of Syria — Let Him Fail On His Own
Putin is no chess master. He overstretched and misstepped in Syria, and U.S. would be wiser to wait him out than chase him out.
Incidentally, yes Har Meggido is a real place, where quite a lot of real fighting has happened in the past (including the not so distant past). It was an important trade route fortification area. If I recall correctly, the Roman Army (under Vespasian and Titus) campaigning against Israel and Jerusalem in the 2nd Temple War staged from that area for pushing down through Palestine.
My browser doesn't like GoogleMaps anymore, but the Tel fortification and the plain can be found pretty easy.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 09, 2015, 12:09:43 PM
Quote from: Swatter on October 09, 2015, 12:01:17 PM
That's a good analysis, but that doesn't explain why Putin is being needlessly provocative.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/world/europe/in-putins-syria-intervention-fear-of-a-weak-government-hand.html
I don't really find that article any more convincing than other analysis in this thread and shadows much of it. Still, I am left to wonder why the needless provocations (NATO over-flights, first targets the Russians hit are the small number of US trained rebels, intercepting US drones and airstrikes)? That seems like needless provocations unless the goal is to humiliate the US and Obama. While I don't think that's the ultimate goal, humiliating the US must be some tasty icing on the cake.
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-10-08/why-putin-s-russian-jets-in-syria-are-buzzing-turkey
"Russia probably has a concrete and parochial goal: forestalling Turkish plans to create safe zones in Syria. The best response to Putin's latest military adventure would be to establish areas in the north and south of Syria, in which refugees and militants belonging to the acceptable Sunni opposition to Assad -- those groups that could be part of any political settlement -- would be protected. This would involve establishing no-fly zones, limiting Russia's field of action in the air and on the ground...
Putin, however, is obsessively wary of NATO no-fly zones. In Libya, where Russia agreed to let a Western alliance establish one under a United Nations resolution in 2011, it was used not just to protect civilians but to provide air support to rebels, who then toppled former President Muammar Qaddafi, a Russian ally. The same might happen in Syria -- certainly that's what Erdogan would want."
So how is Russian incursion into Turkish airspace supposed to make the Turks less interested in a no-fly zone over n. Syria? ???
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 09, 2015, 12:09:43 PM
Quote from: Swatter on October 09, 2015, 12:01:17 PM
That's a good analysis, but that doesn't explain why Putin is being needlessly provocative.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/world/europe/in-putins-syria-intervention-fear-of-a-weak-government-hand.html
Been reading Asprey's book,
War in the Shadows.
There's some good history there, but one point he makes clear is applicable here:
Weakness breeds chaos.
By snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in Iraq Obama invited the resurgence of Daesh.
Following up on Airborne's post, Putin is filling the vacuum before anything worse (like Iran, Daesh et al) does it for us. In a way he almost had to.
Now maybe Obama thinks that's a good idea. I don't know.
But this is hardly surprising.
Unfortunately it took the West decades to build up enough clout in the mid east to rid it of Soviet influence. Now, in the space of a couple of years it has all be undone.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 09, 2015, 11:53:44 AM
I know this isn't going to be a popular point of view but...there is a lot of logic behind what Russia is doing in the Middle East and it is not all counter to the interests of the west. You have to understand the Russians' perspective on this; since the end of the Cold War they have watched us invade Somalia, the former Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, and Iraq, and they have watched us support revolutions throughout the Middle East and on their border in Ukraine (except for the last example, all of these occurred without any significant resistance or interference from Russia). From their perspective, and they are not entirely wrong, these actions have resulted in unprecedented chaos throughout the region.
Putin's view (and his view is very typically Russian) is that toppling existing governments and security structures is a bad idea because it brings about chaos, and now they see us trying to do the same thing in Syria by supporting the Syrian opposition. The stalemated Syrian civil war has spawned the greatest humanitarian crisis since WWII as thirty million refugees are trying to escape the the greater middle east and Europe. At this point the Russians can reasonably make the argument that it's better to back someone who has a chance of winning (Assad) and end the conflict as quickly as possible than to continue to let it simmer feeding insignificant amounts of aid to groups that are unlikely to make a significant difference or who have questionable loyalties.
Regarding ISIS, there are really only three ways they can be defeated right now. 1. We need to go in with our own ground troops for a protracted ground campaign against them. 2. We need to go full bore backing someone acceptable to us who has the capabilities to defeat ISIS (the Kurds), or 3. We need to support or at least get out of the way of the other powerful player who has the capability to defeat ISIS (Assad).
-We don't have the will to do number 1.
-We can't do number 2 because the Turks (our NATO allies) will throw a fit, and keeping the alliance together is far more important than any of these other considerations.
-That leaves us with number 3, which the Russians are executing (we can't because, again, the Turks hate Assad, and he's a bastard who used chemical weapons on his own people).
Now, the bill to pay for letting the Russians into Syria (because short of war there is realistically nothing we can do to prevent them from doing what they are doing) is handing them a base in the eastern Med from which their area denial systems can dominate the eastern Med and the Suez canal (just like Kaliningrad allows them to deny access to the Baltic and Crimea denies access to the Black Sea, Danube delta, and the Dardanelles).
Standard disclaimer, I'm not saying the Russians are right, but I do think their actions are understandable. And quite frankly, the war in Syria needs to end, even if it ends with Assad in charge. If the Russians bring that about, it will actually relieve much of the migrant pressure on Europe, and that's a good thing for us.
I have been cogitating on this. It may well be how they see things, that does not mean it is real. I agree the Russians tend to go for the Orwellian, do as you are told, state. It is not true that lack of dictators equals chaos.
To me their intervention seems like mostly opportunism. They want to end a power vaccum if they can extend their influence in the process. PUTTING the middle East into chaos furthers their ends. First, they like ruining competing providers of energy. Second, they have seen themselves as the true counter to Islam since pushing back the Ottomans in Catherine's time. Which brings up again the potential for finally completing the taking of the black Sea region. Yes, they wanted it in the late 1600s. Everyone wants to think that Turkey is safe as part of NATO. It is only safe as long as the US, UK, and France, are willing to loose weapons on Russia to defend it. Putin may want to test this. A Syrian jet downing a Turkish jet, to which Turkey downs a Russian jet, to which Russia looses SAMs, can become a big regional war in a day. One thing that will be guaranteed would be Syrian oil, potentially Iraqi, then even Iranian oil, becoming useless for many years. Iran vs Saudi, even worse.
I do not see the Russians attempting to bring stability. I see Putin playing a Goldfinger, a finger in Obama's eye. Mr peace prize governs over the outbreak of a big war.
The pivot point of the structural situation is the answer to the question who would launch attacks into Russia to retaliate for damage to Turkey? Only a handful of people can know the answer, if anyone would do anything, without Obama.
Quote from: Swatter on October 09, 2015, 12:01:17 PM
That's a good analysis, but that doesn't explain why Putin is being needlessly provocative.
Because he thinks he can.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on October 09, 2015, 08:14:00 PM
I do not see the Russians attempting to bring stability. I see Putin playing a Goldfinger, a finger in Obama's eye. Mr peace prize governs over the outbreak of a big war.
The pivot point of the structural situation is the answer to the question who would launch attacks into Russia to retaliate for damage to Turkey? Only a handful of people can know the answer, if anyone would do anything, without Obama.
Russia Syria's policy is a basic "bait and switch" tactic to divert attention from Ukraine for a while so he can return to it again later after the situation is "stabilized", and people are used to the it. US could easily counter play this, but that would require leadership. In this situation the US and the west will always play catch-up.
US and the West need to realize that Russia is never a solution, but more of a threat then ISIS.
I think many of Putin's moves are motivated as much by trying to offer "an alternative" to US leadership as they are anything else. It doesn't matter that the alternative isn't any good, there are folks out there willing to consider it just because it isn't us.
So here's the Egyptian news covering "the Russians" in Syria.
Never mind the pilots are speaking perfect English.
Or that the footage is actually from a 5-year-old video game...
http://egyptianstreets.com/2015/10/12/egyptian-television-host-confuses-video-game-for-russian-airstrikes-in-syria/
Jeez maybe it won't be so bad pulling out of that cesspool. I know we have to be engaged there to prevent something worse but please...it's such a disaster in every way over there. I just can't look anymore.
Interresant
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/world/middleeast/syria-russia-airstrikes.html
Putin is a rock star in the Middle East! T-shirts, posters, paintings, billboards. All of it and more!! It seems that Russia's 'Man of Action' is seen as decisive and a strong opponent of America and its allies in the region. And a lot of people like it. Iraq, Iran and Syria all stand to gain with Russian backing.
But, my favorite part of the article follows my thinking exactly: "Putin considers the Syrian crisis an excellent opportunity to erode America's standing in the region," said Ghassan Charbel, editor of the London-based Arabic daily newspaper Al Hayat. In a front-page editorial Monday, he warned that while Syria presents Moscow with an opportunity to exact revenge from the West, it may transform quickly into an Afghanistan-like quagmire that threatens to erode Putin's image as a "czar."
Amongst the many reasons the people of the Middle East have to dislike and distrust America and the West is, constant meddling on our part. See what it's gotten us? Let Russia deal with the problem. Let it become theirs. They are much closer anyways and it will allow those who will eventually turn against them, too, a chance to bring it home to Russia.
http://news.yahoo.com/amid-russian-airstrikes-putin-craze-takes-hold-mideast-185513026.html
I'm wondering why no Moslem nation has declared a Jihad against the infidel Russians for killing the Faithful. Everytime an American flies over a Moslem country they declare one against us. Where are the anti-Imperalism protesters? Why aren't Russian flags burning all over the Mid East? And why aren't their embassies being over run and looted? I'm beginning to think there's a double standard here. :o
We have our regional allies, they have theirs. Seems to be along Sunni/Shi'ite lines. And they've tried to wipe each other out for 1,300+ years. This is just a snapshot in the time line.
The Strong Man draws the attention there.
Weakness gets left in the dust.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 12, 2015, 10:52:40 PM
I'm wondering why no Moslem nation has declared a Jihad against the infidel Russians for killing the Faithful. Everytime an American flies over a Moslem country they declare one against us. Where are the anti-Imperalism protesters? Why aren't Russian flags burning all over the Mid East? And why aren't their embassies being over run and looted? I'm beginning to think there's a double standard here. :o
Give it time.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 12, 2015, 10:52:40 PM
I'm wondering why no Moslem nation has declared a Jihad against the infidel Russians for killing the Faithful. Everytime an American flies over a Moslem country they declare one against us. Where are the anti-Imperalism protesters? Why aren't Russian flags burning all over the Mid East? And why aren't their embassies being over run and looted? I'm beginning to think there's a double standard here. :o
Saudi Arabian clerics declare jihad against Assad and Putin's forces, urging all Sunni Muslims to join the rebels shortly before rockets are fired at the Russian embassy in Syria
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3270466/Saudi-Arabian-clerics-declare-jihad-against-Assad-Putin-s-forces-urging-Sunni-Muslims-join-rebels-shortly-rockets-fired-Russian-embassy-Syria.html
I see the Saudi's are following us here now. Welcome guys! If you need us to make further recommendations to your Foreign Policy, just give us a heads up. And I'm available to be adopted into the Royal Family. I look great in white.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 12, 2015, 10:52:40 PM
I'm wondering why no Moslem nation has declared a Jihad against the infidel Russians for killing the Faithful. Everytime an American flies over a Moslem country they declare one against us. Where are the anti-Imperalism protesters? Why aren't Russian flags burning all over the Mid East? And why aren't their embassies being over run and looted? I'm beginning to think there's a double standard here. :o
You'll note that the overwhelmingly vast majority of the weapons & armed equipment most of those Mideast Muslims have been using for decades is Russian. With some French and a smattering of Chinese/NK stuff.
It took exactly 1:06 for the Russian jihad to begin on these boards.
DEATH TO THE INFIDELS! Oh, wait. That's us isn't it? :-[
The Russians are the Little Satan.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 13, 2015, 06:10:04 PM
DEATH TO THE INFIDELS! Oh, wait. That's us isn't it? :-[
So you were active on Ashley Madison as well?
Let us not speak of this Ashley. My wife might be listening. :buck2:
Quote from: pawelj on October 13, 2015, 09:30:21 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 12, 2015, 10:52:40 PM
I'm wondering why no Moslem nation has declared a Jihad against the infidel Russians for killing the Faithful. Everytime an American flies over a Moslem country they declare one against us. Where are the anti-Imperalism protesters? Why aren't Russian flags burning all over the Mid East? And why aren't their embassies being over run and looted? I'm beginning to think there's a double standard here. :o
Give it time.
Exactly what I was about to post.
Radical Shi'ites took over Iran. That has made for an unpleasant time.
Radical Sunnis blew-up the World Trade Center and they make-up ISIS. Enough said.
They seem to hate each other. Who wants to get in the middle of that?
Just saw a report on TV that claims Cubans are now joining the Sovs in Syria.
Good thing we have such good relations with them!
Quote from: LongBlade on October 14, 2015, 01:47:59 PM
Just saw a report on TV that claims Cubans are now joining the Sovs in Syria.
Good thing we have such good relations with them!
Maybe they're going to open a resort on the Med. Their excursions in west Africa didn't work out so well for them, financially.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/14/cuban-military-forces-deployed-to-syria-to-operate-russian-tanks-say-sources/
Can the Obama administration do anything without it backfiring on them?
WTF is this Red Dawn? Where are the Angolans?
Quote from: Centurion40 on October 14, 2015, 02:24:42 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on October 14, 2015, 01:47:59 PM
Just saw a report on TV that claims Cubans are now joining the Sovs in Syria.
Good thing we have such good relations with them!
Maybe they're going to open a resort on the Med. Their excursions in west Africa didn't work out so well for them, financially.
They might be scouting for a chain of cigar stands.
Somebody has to clean the Russians boots.
In Soviet Russia boots clean you!
In Soviet Russia, tank drives Cubans!
In Soviet Cuba cigar roll you.
In Soviet cigar you roll Cuba?
In Russia there's 2 TV channels. Channel #1 has Putin riding a horse bare-back. Channel #2 has Putin riding a horse with no saddle. In case you don't like Channel #1. ^-^
The Soviet Russia quotes never get old :)
Found a few memes of dear old Vladie.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Ffacebook%2F000%2F218%2F050%2Finternet-memes-the-most-interesting-pm-in-the-world.jpg&hash=1dd9b6379af2fae7aeea2e2d26679062e9fb9a75)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F138%2F044%2FPutinassassin.jpg&hash=57cfff18cdfd55b0fbeaa7864b4cb7edee2cf00c)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fct.fra.bz%2Fol%2Ffz%2Fsw%2Fi54%2F2%2F12%2F1%2Ffrabz-If-this-guy-stood-on-top-of-a-cracker-Would-he-be-Putin-on-a-Rit-971a79.jpg&hash=dbd3c96a931a82b37fc8b18288240f15e17d35bb)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slightlyqualified.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F06%2Fputindrinks.jpg&hash=bbc89a8b361ba612eb08ddd721fa42ee4bf4f47f)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F694%2F418%2F231.jpg&hash=3953436d6f138562972fcd4cb15fb25a7e92bb3e)
Quote from: LongBlade on October 15, 2015, 09:07:43 AM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slightlyqualified.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F06%2Fputindrinks.jpg&hash=bbc89a8b361ba612eb08ddd721fa42ee4bf4f47f)
lmao!
Quote from: LongBlade on October 15, 2015, 09:07:43 AM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F138%2F044%2FPutinassassin.jpg&hash=57cfff18cdfd55b0fbeaa7864b4cb7edee2cf00c)
ROFL.
In Soviet Russia vodka ban you.
QuoteSome Russian officials are daring to think the seemingly unthinkable in the land of vodka - banning the sale of alcohol once a week in the country's two main cities.
Although the initiative is only in its infancy, both the head of the national consumer protection agency and a top member of the Public Chamber, a Kremlin advisory body, on Wednesday latched onto the idea amid media reports that the Moscow and St. Petersburg city governments were taking the prospect seriously.
The heavy media attention underlined the paradox of alcohol for Russia - while it may be as much a part of the country's identity as snow and Pushkin poems, it is also a severe problem. Heavy drinking is cited as one of the main factors in Russia's high mortality rate: the life expectancy for Russian males born in 2006 is just 61 years, according to a U.N. Development Program report.
source: http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/10/15/russian-cities-ponder-1-day-week-booze-ban/?intcmp=hpbt1
^If anything is going to spark a new revolution in Russia, that'll be it.
My thinking, too.
However this appears to be at the local level in two (large) cities.
Interesting analysis of Putin.
QuoteFrom the Russian point of view, America has a president who is not decisive and who is reluctant to commit forces. So when the Russians look at Washington, they feel that these people make verbal commitments to do things, like getting rid of [the Islamic State group], sending in air strikes, blah, blah, blah, but actually there aren't really results. Whereas Putin, what does he see? He doesn't see a best option here.
To him, the worst option is the collapse of Assad's regime and the dominance of Syria and the Near East by a fanatical, fundamental Islamic terrorist outfit. So he sees himself as having to get his hands dirty there, to do what he thought the Americans might possibly do for him. He's realized that no one else is going to this.
source: http://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2015/10/14/russias-spies-are-critical-to-putins-operations-in-syria-ukraine
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 14, 2015, 10:16:10 PM
In Russia there's 2 TV channels. Channel #1 has Putin riding a horse bare-back. Channel #2 has Putin riding a horse with no saddle. In case you don't like Channel #1. ^-^
My favourite episodes are watching Putin riding a bear across Siberia, and the one where he single handedly takes down two great white sharks with his bare hands. No one in Russia can beat him at judo, nor any other sport he cares to try. The man is just awesome! ;)
Quote from: LongBlade on October 15, 2015, 10:52:19 AM
Interesting analysis of Putin.
QuoteFrom the Russian point of view, America has a president who is not decisive and who is reluctant to commit forces. So when the Russians look at Washington, they feel that these people make verbal commitments to do things, like getting rid of [the Islamic State group], sending in air strikes, blah, blah, blah, but actually there aren't really results. Whereas Putin, what does he see? He doesn't see a best option here.
To him, the worst option is the collapse of Assad's regime and the dominance of Syria and the Near East by a fanatical, fundamental Islamic terrorist outfit. So he sees himself as having to get his hands dirty there, to do what he thought the Americans might possibly do for him. He's realized that no one else is going to this.
source: http://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2015/10/14/russias-spies-are-critical-to-putins-operations-in-syria-ukraine
Don't think the Russians aren't concerned about Islamic radicals. They've been fighting a war against them in Chechnya for the past two decades, and they have suffered several major terrorist attacks from Islamic (Chechen) radicals during that time, many of them right in the capitol. Remember the theater attack in Moscow? The school in southern Russia? Those were only the two most spectacular attacks. There have been multiple apartment building and subway station bombings in Moscow and other attacks elsewhere. Don't assume just because Putin has other motives that he doesn't also want to see ISIS dead.
^^ Not that that means he's going to be actually fighting ISIS any time soon. Priorities, yo.
(I suppose from one strategic perspective it makes sense for 'supporting Assad' to be the first priority.)
Quote from: Gusington on October 15, 2015, 08:59:54 AM
The Soviet Russia quotes never get old :)
In Neo-Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris doesn't go to pot, Putin scares crap out of Chuck Norris!
(...trying to decide if I did that right...)
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 15, 2015, 12:23:11 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on October 15, 2015, 10:52:19 AM
Interesting analysis of Putin.
QuoteFrom the Russian point of view, America has a president who is not decisive and who is reluctant to commit forces. So when the Russians look at Washington, they feel that these people make verbal commitments to do things, like getting rid of [the Islamic State group], sending in air strikes, blah, blah, blah, but actually there aren't really results. Whereas Putin, what does he see? He doesn't see a best option here.
To him, the worst option is the collapse of Assad's regime and the dominance of Syria and the Near East by a fanatical, fundamental Islamic terrorist outfit. So he sees himself as having to get his hands dirty there, to do what he thought the Americans might possibly do for him. He's realized that no one else is going to this.
source: http://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2015/10/14/russias-spies-are-critical-to-putins-operations-in-syria-ukraine
Don't think the Russians aren't concerned about Islamic radicals. They've been fighting a war against them in Chechnya for the past two decades, and they have suffered several major terrorist attacks from Islamic (Chechen) radicals during that time, many of them right in the capitol. Remember the theater attack in Moscow? The school in southern Russia? Those were only the two most spectacular attacks. There have been multiple apartment building and subway station bombings in Moscow and other attacks elsewhere. Don't assume just because Putin has other motives that he doesn't also want to see ISIS dead.
Furthermore, the majority of Chechens are Muslims, and the majority of Chechen Muslims are Sunni Muslims (same with Dagestan). ISIS is composed of Sunni Muslims. Therefore the Russians have no interest in Chechen Sunnis making and alliance with ISIS or seeking to join with the ISIS Caliphate. Russia making pacts with Shi'ite/Shia Muslim nations makes sense.
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 15, 2015, 12:35:37 PM
(I suppose from one strategic perspective it makes sense for 'supporting Assad' to be the first priority.)
Right now, supporting Assad is just about the only realistic strategy for defeating ISIS, unfortunately.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 15, 2015, 01:11:29 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 15, 2015, 12:35:37 PM
(I suppose from one strategic perspective it makes sense for 'supporting Assad' to be the first priority.)
Right now, supporting Assad is just about the only realistic strategy for defeating ISIS, unfortunately.
It is very unfortunate.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 15, 2015, 01:11:29 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 15, 2015, 12:35:37 PM
(I suppose from one strategic perspective it makes sense for 'supporting Assad' to be the first priority.)
Right now, supporting Assad is just about the only realistic strategy for defeating ISIS, unfortunately.
I agree. There was a window for getting rid of Assad and we let it pass.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Madhhab_Map3.png)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanafi#/media/File:Madhhab_Map3.png
^^ Coming next year from Funimation: MUSLIM AXIS HENTALIA
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 15, 2015, 01:11:29 PM
Right now, supporting Assad is just about the only realistic strategy for defeating ISIS, unfortunately.
How about pissing off Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria in one fell swoop by supporting the Kurds with as much military support and weapons as the West can muster?
Guaranteed to pull the rug from under Putin's feet but I doubt there is a Western leader with the balls to do it.
The Russians have been kicking around Chechnya for the better part of 4 centuries IIRC.
its time for GusTeamSeal!
Quote from: mirth on October 15, 2015, 01:23:46 PM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 15, 2015, 01:11:29 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 15, 2015, 12:35:37 PM
(I suppose from one strategic perspective it makes sense for 'supporting Assad' to be the first priority.)
Right now, supporting Assad is just about the only realistic strategy for defeating ISIS, unfortunately.
I agree. There was a window for getting rid of Assad and we let it pass.
So why exactly do we want to get rid of Assad ?
He has never posed any danger to the western world, and look what is happening now. You think removing him from power will turn things better ?
QuoteYou think removing him from power will turn things better ?
Sure, let's try out this strategy again, perhaps this time it might work...remember what happened when Saddam Hussein was removed? And Gaddafi killed? That's what Putin is telling the world, we can not make the same mistake over and over, to remove the official power in such a country is simply opening Pandora's Box.
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 16, 2015, 05:12:11 AM
QuoteYou think removing him from power will turn things better ?
Sure, let's try out this strategy again, perhaps this time it might work...remember what happened when Saddam Hussein was removed? And Gaddafi killed? That's what Putin is telling the world, we can not make the same mistake over and over, to remove the official power in such a country is simply opening Pandora's Box.
I think the larger issue is that in every case there's no credible national-level opposition that could take the reins and maintain any sense of unity among the population to hold the country together. A significant problem with "strongman" governments is that challengers don't last long, so none exist when you're ready to remove the ruler. Even in Zimbabwe, where there's been credible opposition to Mugabe over the years, would have a hard time replacing his gov't authority with an opposition leader b/c even if they exist, like Tsvangirai, they don't have enough competent supporters to fulfill all the gov't duties that need filling. We have no plan to fill the vacuum, and we've seen how well
that works out, as you noted.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 16, 2015, 05:33:09 AM
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 16, 2015, 05:12:11 AM
QuoteYou think removing him from power will turn things better ?
Sure, let's try out this strategy again, perhaps this time it might work...remember what happened when Saddam Hussein was removed? And Gaddafi killed? That's what Putin is telling the world, we can not make the same mistake over and over, to remove the official power in such a country is simply opening Pandora's Box.
I think the larger issue is that in every case there's no credible national-level opposition that could take the reins and maintain any sense of unity among the population to hold the country together. A significant problem with "strongman" governments is that challengers don't last long, so none exist when you're ready to remove the ruler. Even in Zimbabwe, where there's been credible opposition to Mugabe over the years, would have a hard time replacing his gov't authority with an opposition leader b/c even if they exist, like Tsvangirai, they don't have enough competent supporters to fulfill all the gov't duties that need filling. We have no plan to fill the vacuum, and we've seen how well that works out, as you noted.
Following up on Brant's post - overthrowing a strong man isn't a five year mission. If you intend to do it properly you're going to occupy for years and years. Look at Germany post WWII. How long was it formally occupied? How long after were there troops stationed there post transition?
If you're going to do an Iraq or Astan or Libya you can't pull the troops out after the new president is sworn into office. They need to be there for a while to help shore up the new government.
From what I understand it is not actually the US who really wants Assad gone. It's, once again, the Turks. Recall that there has been a NATO mission in Turkey since 2012 consisting of Patriot batteries from several alliance members to supplement the air defense of Turkey: http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_92555.htm? (http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_92555.htm?)
These are there because Turkey felt threatened by Assad after a Turkish jet was shot down and Turkish civilians were killed by shelling from across the border.
I agree with you all that going around deposing national governments is a bad idea, and it's almost certainly a bad idea in this case as well. But there are competing interests, and keeping NATO together by supporting a member state that feels threatened is one interest that will most likely continue to trump all others.
Oh boy, this could get ugly quick...
Turkey shoots down unidentified aircraft along their border:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/16/world/turkey-aircraft-claim/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/16/world/turkey-aircraft-claim/index.html)
The question is why is Turkey still in the Nato, I mean Erdogan is no less a dictator as Assad, he has for years been trying to stamp out the opposition, he now uses the IS conflict as sort of cover for that too and attacks the anti-IS Kurdish fighters, the press is no longer free in Turkey, journalists Erdogan doesn't like, are being arrested and he is cultivating an anti-West Muslim attitude and even encourages his fellow-men living in other countries to keep themselves apart from their surrounding society, because he thinks assimilation is a bad thing. That was his message to the Turks living here in Germany when he recently visited for his canvassing tour.
The world has to get rid of the Islamic State, that has to be the priority, not Assad or Turkey. That's why I think Putin's game over there is helpful, just to make things happen in a situation that was ruled for too long by ignoring reality or by being paralyzed by whatever political agenda.
According to German news it was a drone that was shot down. And according to Generalmajor Igor Konaschenkow it was not a Russian drone.
^ Well that's good news.
Quote from: The Puss on October 15, 2015, 03:08:27 PM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 15, 2015, 01:11:29 PM
Right now, supporting Assad is just about the only realistic strategy for defeating ISIS, unfortunately.
How about pissing off Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria in one fell swoop by supporting the Kurds with as much military support and weapons as the West can muster?
Guaranteed to pull the rug from under Putin's feet but I doubt there is a Western leader with the balls to do it.
I lack faith in the Kurds abilities. They may have done ok opposing the post-Saddam Iraqi army, but their record against ISIS has been spotty.
Quote from: Centurion40 on October 16, 2015, 08:21:57 AM
Quote from: The Puss on October 15, 2015, 03:08:27 PM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 15, 2015, 01:11:29 PM
Right now, supporting Assad is just about the only realistic strategy for defeating ISIS, unfortunately.
How about pissing off Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria in one fell swoop by supporting the Kurds with as much military support and weapons as the West can muster?
Guaranteed to pull the rug from under Putin's feet but I doubt there is a Western leader with the balls to do it.
I lack faith in the Kurds abilities. They may have done ok opposing the post-Saddam Iraqi army, but their record against ISIS has been spotty.
I don't see them being the big power player there anytime soon. But their biggest problem is having so many neighboring enemies. They are surrounded by multiple opposing factions. The Turks and ISIS, most definitely. Assad's Syrian regime holds no special love for them, and the Iraqis certainly don't since they posit some claim to their land.
IIRC, they've all had varying degress of hostility towards the Kurds in recent times. That's probably why our limp POTUS hasn't given them much support in the current situation - he's terrified of pissing anyone off. Even our enemies, to some extent.
The Kurds are also not acting as a unitary force. Even the "vaunted" Pershmerga is not a unified entity.
Quote
Peshmerga (Kurdish: پێشمەرگە Pêşmerge, Kurdish pronunciation [pɛʃmærˈɡæ]; meaning "one who confronts death") are the military forces of the autonomous region of Iraqi Kurdistan.[3] The overall formal head of the peshmerga is the President of Iraqi Kurdistan. The peshmerga force itself is largely divided and controlled separately by the Democratic Party of Kurdistan and Patriotic Union of Kurdistan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshmerga
In bizarro-world, we're happy about all the HMMWVs we destroyed after the Iraqi 'army' abandoned them.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12088519_10153549010463780_727743531816682295_n.jpg?oh=ec66c2a161973937d40f8910bd46ceae&oe=568798B8)
I wonder how many of those 126 tanks were western made.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 17, 2015, 07:43:32 AM
In bizarro-world, we're happy about all the HMMWVs we destroyed after the Iraqi 'army' abandoned them.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12088519_10153549010463780_727743531816682295_n.jpg?oh=ec66c2a161973937d40f8910bd46ceae&oe=568798B8)
If anything is facepalm worthy, that is.
I hate to say it, but that graphic reminds me of the body count from Vietnam. A means to show "progress" in the war in terms of numeric quantities, i.e. high numbers equal positive results, but ignores the reality of the actual effect on the battlefield.
Quote from: Bison on October 17, 2015, 02:07:57 PM
I hate to say it, but that graphic reminds me of the body count from Vietnam. A means to show "progress" in the war in terms of numeric quantities, i.e. high numbers equal positive results, but ignores the reality of the actual effect on the battlefield.
Hadn't thought of that. You're right.
Totally agree with Bison - very much like Vietnam era body counts.
Quote from: Bison on October 17, 2015, 02:07:57 PM
I hate to say it, but that graphic reminds me of the body count from Vietnam. A means to show "progress" in the war in terms of numeric quantities, i.e. high numbers equal positive results, but ignores the reality of the actual effect on the battlefield.
Depends. Who's the ones reporting the numbers? If it's the Air Force or US government, then yes, just like Vietnam. If some independent group, then it seems like just a depressing statistical graphic.
Either way, the presence of 300-odd HMMWVs on the chart is just f'n' embarrassing to the US
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 16, 2015, 07:06:24 AM
The question is why is Turkey still in the Nato, I mean Erdogan is no less a dictator as Assad, he has for years been trying to stamp out the opposition, he now uses the IS conflict as sort of cover for that too and attacks the anti-IS Kurdish fighters, the press is no longer free in Turkey, journalists Erdogan doesn't like, are being arrested and he is cultivating an anti-West Muslim attitude and even encourages his fellow-men living in other countries to keep themselves apart from their surrounding society, because he thinks assimilation is a bad thing. That was his message to the Turks living here in Germany when he recently visited for his canvassing tour.
The world has to get rid of the Islamic State, that has to be the priority, not Assad or Turkey. That's why I think Putin's game over there is helpful, just to make things happen in a situation that was ruled for too long by ignoring reality or by being paralyzed by whatever political agenda.
Given Erdogan's actions against the Kurds in Iraq and Syria (leaving Turkey for the moment), I thought it a bit rich for him to criticise Putin for having a swipe at non-IS opponents to Assad. We may not like Assad, but Putin has a point about him being a bulwark against IS, even if he is a brutal dictator in his own right.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 17, 2015, 07:32:07 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 17, 2015, 02:07:57 PM
I hate to say it, but that graphic reminds me of the body count from Vietnam. A means to show "progress" in the war in terms of numeric quantities, i.e. high numbers equal positive results, but ignores the reality of the actual effect on the battlefield.
Depends. Who's the ones reporting the numbers? If it's the Air Force or US government, then yes, just like Vietnam. If some independent group, then it seems like just a depressing statistical graphic.
Well the table's statistics are attributed to CENTCOM.
Quote from: Boggit on October 17, 2015, 08:22:33 PM
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 16, 2015, 07:06:24 AM
The question is why is Turkey still in the Nato, I mean Erdogan is no less a dictator as Assad, he has for years been trying to stamp out the opposition, he now uses the IS conflict as sort of cover for that too and attacks the anti-IS Kurdish fighters, the press is no longer free in Turkey, journalists Erdogan doesn't like, are being arrested and he is cultivating an anti-West Muslim attitude and even encourages his fellow-men living in other countries to keep themselves apart from their surrounding society, because he thinks assimilation is a bad thing. That was his message to the Turks living here in Germany when he recently visited for his canvassing tour.
The world has to get rid of the Islamic State, that has to be the priority, not Assad or Turkey. That's why I think Putin's game over there is helpful, just to make things happen in a situation that was ruled for too long by ignoring reality or by being paralyzed by whatever political agenda.
Given Erdogan's actions against the Kurds in Iraq and Syria (leaving Turkey for the moment), I thought it a bit rich for him to criticise Putin for having a swipe at non-IS opponents to Assad. We may not like Assad, but Putin has a point about him being a bulwark against IS, even if he is a brutal dictator in his own right.
He may be a dictator, but up until we stabbed him in the back he was our dictator.
Quote from: Bison on October 17, 2015, 08:50:05 PM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 17, 2015, 07:32:07 PM
Quote from: Bison on October 17, 2015, 02:07:57 PM
I hate to say it, but that graphic reminds me of the body count from Vietnam. A means to show "progress" in the war in terms of numeric quantities, i.e. high numbers equal positive results, but ignores the reality of the actual effect on the battlefield.
Depends. Who's the ones reporting the numbers? If it's the Air Force or US government, then yes, just like Vietnam. If some independent group, then it seems like just a depressing statistical graphic.
Well the table's statistics are attributed to CENTCOM.
Good point :)
Russia warns Israel over jets detected near Syria–Lebanon border
http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/middle-east/89394-151018-russia-warns-israel-over-jets-detected-near-syria-lebanon-border
"According to As Safir, the Lebanese source said that Russian aircraft immediately blocked the Israeli jets' path while they flew above the Akkar region in northern Lebanon. "The Russians immediately sent a clear warning to the Israelis that entering Syrian airspace would be a pretext for opening fire," the source added."
I don't think the Russian air force would want to scrap with the IAF, if they know what's best for them.
:o Christ...this is deteriorating...
Quote from: Gusington on October 18, 2015, 02:24:51 PM
:o Christ...this is deteriorating...
The Sovs are going to push until someone pushes back. Obama may have his tail between his legs, but the IAF doesn't. The IAF isn't likely to stand down and Putin will get the message where he can and where he can't find weakness.
Quote from: Nefaro on October 18, 2015, 01:02:03 PM
I don't think the Russian air force would want to scrap with the IAF, if they know what's best for them.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/F-16-Netz-107-fighter-and-killmarks-01.jpg)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.defenceindustrydaily.com%2Fimages%2FAIR_F-15_IDF_Kill_Lineup_lg.jpg&hash=2b138dfe41ee10ba98f5ffd18a2248a849a0c2ac)
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR3lpcB8reB3SvpkB43idGsdIa53ekOsRGdmO54QfatwQTNn4pv)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 18, 2015, 02:51:40 PM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.defenceindustrydaily.com%2Fimages%2FAIR_F-15_IDF_Kill_Lineup_lg.jpg&hash=2b138dfe41ee10ba98f5ffd18a2248a849a0c2ac)
The graphic on their vertical stabilizers looks like Sam the Eagle. Which reminds me...
For Bison:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.bleedingcool.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F07%2Fcaptain-sam-erica-first-avenger-muppets.jpg&hash=2fecf47207de2de47cf53e5e93a414e7f632b0cb)
I dig it!
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0SC0NY20151018
Sick, cold and homeless. We discussed this a while back.
I can only say Merkel better this doesn't blow up, but she seems an ambiguous globalist intent on dragging down Germany.
"Mother Merkel" has lost any connection to reality repeating the same mantra over and over "Wir schaffen das!" (but you know that mantra I suppose from someone else..."Yes, we can!") while ignoring that our country is at the limits already, authorities expect up to 1.5 million asylum seekers to arrive in Germany this year alone and 2016 these numbers will likely go up rather than down because those granted asylum will bring their families over to Germany too.
Her popularity ratings are falling quite fast it seems and there are voices that predict that she will not politically survive this. Hopefully, since she has done enormous harm to my country and I don't see any way to close the flood gates again.
you just need a guy from the right to stand up and start blaming your countrys woes on the influx of unwanteds and were all off on the merry go round again!
The situation now and 70 years ago are completely different. You don't wholesale import millions of people that share no similar cultural values and no expect impact. Particularly in a nation with substantial welfare programs. At some point, the nation will have to hit a tipping point of what they could support versus what they are now expected to support. There is unfortunately going to be conflict. And no I'm not suggesting widespread civil unrest and violence.
Quote from: Boggit on October 17, 2015, 08:22:33 PM
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 16, 2015, 07:06:24 AM
The question is why is Turkey still in the Nato, I mean Erdogan is no less a dictator as Assad, he has for years been trying to stamp out the opposition, he now uses the IS conflict as sort of cover for that too and attacks the anti-IS Kurdish fighters, the press is no longer free in Turkey, journalists Erdogan doesn't like, are being arrested and he is cultivating an anti-West Muslim attitude and even encourages his fellow-men living in other countries to keep themselves apart from their surrounding society, because he thinks assimilation is a bad thing. That was his message to the Turks living here in Germany when he recently visited for his canvassing tour.
The world has to get rid of the Islamic State, that has to be the priority, not Assad or Turkey. That's why I think Putin's game over there is helpful, just to make things happen in a situation that was ruled for too long by ignoring reality or by being paralyzed by whatever political agenda.
Given Erdogan's actions against the Kurds in Iraq and Syria (leaving Turkey for the moment), I thought it a bit rich for him to criticise Putin for having a swipe at non-IS opponents to Assad. We may not like Assad, but Putin has a point about him being a bulwark against IS, even if he is a brutal dictator in his own right.
Relying on dictators to do our job is never a good policy in the long run.
If the Germans need more living space they csn always look to the east. ::)
I'll laugh later... ???
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F106%2F157%2Fhey-beetlejuice-doris-joker-funny-demotivational-poster-1231432214.jpg&hash=57e22cccbaa883de080c9743c0a8beab43f94f7a)
on east front, sense of humour loses you
^HA!
Don't panic!
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/10/20/most-of-russias-military-still-rubbish-despite-ukraine-syria-deployments/?utm_source=Facebook (http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/10/20/most-of-russias-military-still-rubbish-despite-ukraine-syria-deployments/?utm_source=Facebook)
I wasn't exactly panicked over a couple of squadrons of fighter bombers and a cruise missile strike with a few dozen missiles. And this is the cream of the Russian crop.
I for one look forward to seeing Israel clobbering Russia in Syria; Putin declaring war; and then the coming Jewish Central Asian Superstate a few months later. ;)
OK. I know I'm crazy, but this quote from Putin is actually pretty good
Quote from: Vlad The Enabler"Let's not play with words and divide the terrorists into moderate and not moderate," said the president.
"I would like to understand what is the difference. Perhaps, some experts believe that moderate bandits behead people in moderate numbers or in some tender way."
of course, he's accusing the West of a double-standard on who they support in the MidEast, but it's still a good quote
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2015/10/putin-syria-russia-151023092849716.html
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 23, 2015, 08:31:29 AM
OK. I know I'm crazy, but this quote from Putin is actually pretty good
Quote from: Vlad The Enabler"Let's not play with words and divide the terrorists into moderate and not moderate," said the president.
"I would like to understand what is the difference. Perhaps, some experts believe that moderate bandits behead people in moderate numbers or in some tender way."
of course, he's accusing the West of a double-standard on who they support in the MidEast, but it's still a good quote
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2015/10/putin-syria-russia-151023092849716.html
Russian Airbus crashes in Sinai, no survivors, Islamic State claims responsibility, Russia denies.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/31/in-central-sinai-with-224-on-board-egypt-pms-office.html
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 31, 2015, 01:03:58 PM
Russian Airbus crashes in Sinai, no survivors, Islamic State claims responsibility, Russia denies.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/31/in-central-sinai-with-224-on-board-egypt-pms-office.html
Queue Bagdad Bob...
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FyfAeMtcURg0%2Fhqdefault.jpg&hash=314bf3b5611ca08ad328862ca9e3f36f0f4147e1)
"There were no Russians in the Sinai!"
Whatever happened to that guy anyway?
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 31, 2015, 04:48:44 PM
Whatever happened to that guy anyway?
That's the point - nobody cared.
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 31, 2015, 01:03:58 PM
Russian Airbus crashes in Sinai, no survivors, Islamic State claims responsibility, Russia denies.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/31/in-central-sinai-with-224-on-board-egypt-pms-office.html
Too early to tell.
Well, may be too early to tell, but a news email from the WaPo indicates both KLM and Lufthansa have cancelled further flights pending further details behind the plane crash. Not exactly a vote of confidence.
Correction (my error) - they aren't cancelling flights, they're cancelling flyovers over the Sinai.
QuoteTwo of Europe's largest airlines have decided to avoid flying over the Sinai peninsula while they wait for clarity on what caused a Russian airliner carrying 224 passengers to crash in the area on Saturday.
German carrier Lufthansa and Air France-KLM have decided to avoid the area for safety reasons, spokeswomen for the carriers said on Saturday.
"We took the decision to avoid the area because the situation and the reasons for the crash were not clear," a Lufthansa spokeswoman said. "We will continue to avoid the area until it is clear what caused the crash."
source: https://news.yahoo.com/lufthansa-air-france-avoid-flying-over-sinai-crash-162052645--finance.html
So the whole democratization thing didn't work, eh? Who would have guessed.
Any guesses as to how long it will be before Russian media agitators start claiming that the Russian plane was shot down by the US in retaliation for a 'misguided' belief Russia was involved in the downing of MH17 over the Ukraine?
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 31, 2015, 06:00:56 PM
Any guesses as to how long it will be before Russian media agitators start claiming that the Russian plane was shot down by the US in retaliation for a 'misguided' belief Russia was involved in the downing of MH17 over the Ukraine?
Now we're thinking!
You're 100% correct.
Either way that's karma messing with the Russians.
Now Obama will ask the Russians if they want build an airbase in the Sinai to bomb Egypt. And can we help.
Quote from: Gusington on October 31, 2015, 10:15:21 PM
Either way that's karma messing with the Russians.
I dunno. There were a lot of innocent lives aboard that plane.
Quote
I dunno. There were a lot of innocent lives aboard that plane.
+1
The impression I'm getting is that Russia is just being cautious about whether ISIS really did do it, until further investigation.
What I haven't seen denials about yet per se (though I haven't kept track since yesterday morning), is the IS claiming responsibility.
From a capability perspective, I can understand wanting to be cautious about attributing success or abilities to the IS forces in that region.
From a culpability perspective, it doesn't matter if the Airbus hit a flying saucer or a goose or an angel, or if Egyptian maintenance was too eager to get back to the hooka. If ISIS takes advantage of the situation to claim they did it, then intentionally that's equivalent to doing it.
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 01, 2015, 10:52:49 AM
The impression I'm getting is that Russia is just being cautious about whether ISIS really did do it, until further investigation.
What I haven't seen denials about yet per se (though I haven't kept track since yesterday morning), is the IS claiming responsibility.
From a capability perspective, I can understand wanting to be cautious about attributing success or abilities to the IS forces in that region.
From a culpability perspective, it doesn't matter if the Airbus hit a flying saucer or a goose or an angel, or if Egyptian maintenance was too eager to get back to the hooka. If ISIS takes advantage of the situation to claim they did it, then intentionally that's equivalent to doing it.
It seems somewhat telling that LKM and LH are routing *around* the area. May or may not mean anything, but does suggest they know something.
Then again everybody rerouted over Ukraine after the
Ruskies Little Green Men shot down that plane. Maybe it's an abundance of caution.
Of course there were a lot of innocents on this Russian plane...just like there were a lot of innocents on the plane shot down last year. The day shooting down civilian airliners becomes 'normal' is going to be a very bad day. Hopefully that day hasn't already passed.
Quote from: Gusington on November 01, 2015, 01:09:39 PM
Of course there were a lot of innocents on this Russian plane...just like there were a lot of innocents on the plane shot down last year. The day shooting down civilian airliners becomes 'normal' is going to be a very bad day. Hopefully that day hasn't already passed.
I knew you didn't mean to over look that.
I guess the first article I read had lots of pics of those aboard and none looked like anything other than smiling people. Guess it stuck with me. Didn't mean to call you out.
I know. Bad precedents being set with actions like this.
That said I am more than a little surprised at how bad the press coverage has been over this incident. I really have to dig around to find mention of it. It's barely a leading headline in the NY Times.
Quote from: Gusington on November 01, 2015, 04:09:35 PM
That said I am more than a little surprised at how bad the press coverage has been over this incident. I really have to dig around to find mention of it. It's barely a leading headline in the NY Times.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F228%2F252%2F131907060520.jpg&hash=ac1b49f1709cdcb1b8de661d2f6702d5af1682a9)
Quote from: Gusington on November 01, 2015, 01:09:39 PM
Of course there were a lot of innocents on this Russian plane...just like there were a lot of innocents on the plane shot down last year. The day shooting down civilian airliners becomes 'normal' is going to be a very bad day. Hopefully that day hasn't already passed.
Sadley, while not commonplace, shooting down passenger aircraft is not the rarity many people think it is:
List of airliner shootdown incidents (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents)
^True - not quite commonplace. Hopefully it will stay that way.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on November 01, 2015, 06:54:43 AM
Quote
I dunno. There were a lot of innocent lives aboard that plane.
+1
Yeah, my first thoughts carried a kind of heart-sickness for the families back home, getting the news that their loved ones have died on vacation.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 31, 2015, 05:32:28 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 31, 2015, 04:48:44 PM
Whatever happened to that guy anyway?
That's the point - nobody cared.
He would have made a good talk-show host in the new Iraq.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 31, 2015, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 31, 2015, 06:00:56 PM
Any guesses as to how long it will be before Russian media agitators start claiming that the Russian plane was shot down by the US in retaliation for a 'misguided' belief Russia was involved in the downing of MH17 over the Ukraine?
Now we're thinking!
You're 100% correct.
I'd be shocked if this does not happen.
The plot thickens.
QuoteThe Pentagon is certain the Russian airliner that exploded over the Sinai Peninsula Saturday was not shot down, a defense official with access to the latest intelligence report of the crash told Fox News.
"There is no way it was brought down by a missile or anti-aircraft fire," the official said.
source: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/11/03/pentagon-official-says-there-is-no-way-russian-airliner-was-shot-down/
So we got a choice whether to believe the Russians or the Obama Administration. Kind of like whether you want a kick in the head or in the nuts.
Laugh
Out
Loud
I did notice that IS militants were solidly confirmed as having claimed responsibility for bringing the plane down.
That means they would have gladly done so if they could have, regardless of whether they did do it.
A one sentence news flash out of the UK is rather chilling.
QuoteUK suspends Sinai flights, says Russian jet may have been brought down by explosive device.
source: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_APNEWSALERT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-11-04-12-02-57
The Middle Eastern locals don't like foreigners nosing in their business. The Ottomans had problems, the British had problems, the French had problems, the Americans have problems, and now it's the Russians turn.
The Middle Eastern locals don't like other ME locals nosing in their business, either. ;)
Quote from: LongBlade on November 04, 2015, 12:12:13 PM
A one sentence news flash out of the UK is rather chilling.
The AP article today (not sure if this link will work http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/news/story/1001/20151104/7002 ) is only really a small procedural step: the heat bloom is being officially recognized by a government as POSSIBLY being a bomb, something unofficially already known, therefore the government (Britain in this case) is suspending flights to and from the region.
Quote"It's a political decision to err on the side of caution if it has been deemed possible that an explosive device was involved and there are concerns about the levels of security at the airport involved," he said. [...]
The infrared activity could mean many things, however, including a bomb blast or an engine on the plane exploding due to a malfunction. One of the officials who spoke condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to discuss the information publicly said a missile striking the Metrojet was ruled out, because neither a missile launch nor an engine burn had been detected.
Several airlines, including Lufthansa and Air France, stopped flying over Sinai after the crash, but British carriers had kept to their schedules.
Britain did not change its travel advice for Egypt, which advises against all but essential travel to Sinai — where Islamist militants have mounted gun and bomb attacks — but makes an exception for Sharm el-Sheikh.
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 04, 2015, 03:07:44 PM
The Middle Eastern locals don't like other ME locals nosing in their business, either. ;)
I'd be willing to speculate that if they managed to prevent islamofascists from meddling in our business, we'd manage to figure out how to not meddle in theirs...
Quote from: LongBlade on November 04, 2015, 03:28:33 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 04, 2015, 03:07:44 PM
The Middle Eastern locals don't like other ME locals nosing in their business, either. ;)
I'd be willing to speculate that if they managed to prevent islamofascists from meddling in our business, we'd manage to figure out how to not meddle in theirs... so long as they don't have any oil.
FTFY
Yeah, I thought about a caveat for oil, but frankly I don't think that really matters.
Canada has lots of oil, and the only invasions you have to worry with from the US are Kardashian-related.
Quote from: LongBlade on November 04, 2015, 04:17:35 PM
Canada has lots of oil, and the only invasions you have to worry with from the US are Kardashian-related.
If they take the Kardashians, we'll agree to keep the Bieb.
Quote from: mirth on November 04, 2015, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on November 04, 2015, 04:17:35 PM
Canada has lots of oil, and the only invasions you have to worry with from the US are Kardashian-related.
If they take the Kardashians, we'll agree to keep the Bieb.
Hmmm.
That needs some serious discussion amongst the Groginatti.
F that...the Bieb will require more concessions.
Quote from: Gusington on November 04, 2015, 08:30:34 PM
F that...the Bieb will require more concessions.
Good point. Vancouver Island is pretty. And it has the highest frequency of Bigfoot sightings, so they can't relocate any Bigfeets before we get the island.
Quote from: mirth on November 04, 2015, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on November 04, 2015, 04:17:35 PM
Canada has lots of oil, and the only invasions you have to worry with from the US are Kardashian-related.
If they take the Kardashians, we'll agree to keep the Bieb.
We're taking this as a signed and sealed guarantee. Canada will happily agree toe the deal. The Kardashians will be relocated to Nunavut and left to fend for themselves. We give them 3 days.
Quote from: Arctic Blast on November 04, 2015, 11:29:41 PM
We're taking this as a signed and sealed guarantee. Canada will happily agree toe the deal. The Kardashians will be relocated to Nunavut and left to fend for themselves. We give them 3 days.
Three days?
You Canadians are such friendly optimists.
I would introduce them to the local friendly fauna and let them know that the albino dogs are especially friendly right before winter.
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Quote from: LongBlade on November 04, 2015, 04:17:35 PM
Yeah, I thought about a caveat for oil, but frankly I don't think that really matters.
Canada has lots of oil, and the only invasions you have to worry with from the US are Kardashian-related.
That's because, corporately & culturally speaking, we're the 51st State.
Quote from: mirth on November 04, 2015, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on November 04, 2015, 04:17:35 PM
Canada has lots of oil, and the only invasions you have to worry with from the US are Kardashian-related.
If they take the Kardashians, we'll agree to keep the Bieb.
No way. There is only 1 Bieb, but the Kardashians are multiplying!
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 05, 2015, 08:16:38 AM
Quote from: mirth on November 04, 2015, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on November 04, 2015, 04:17:35 PM
Canada has lots of oil, and the only invasions you have to worry with from the US are Kardashian-related.
If they take the Kardashians, we'll agree to keep the Bieb.
No way. There is only 1 Bieb, but the Kardashians are multiplying!
I knew someone was going to see through that.
We have to remember that with Putin we are dealing with a scumbag of the worst kind. It is not out of the realm of possibilities that the plane was bombed by the Russians themselves with a bomb planted in Russia and enabled remotely in Egypt to appear it was planted there. If it was a ISIS/Al Qaeda plot, it just seem too quick after Russians started bombing in Syria to the any plot taking shape. I hate to indulge in conspiracy theories, but with Russkies, I wouldn't put it passed them.
Besides Bieb already causes all of his havoc in 'Merika, so there is no need for us to do shit! ;) >:D O:-)
Quote from: pawelj on November 05, 2015, 08:33:00 AM
We have to remember that with Putin we are dealing with a scumbag of the worst kind. It is not out of the realm of possibilities that the plane was bombed by the Russians themselves with a bomb planted in Russia and enabled remotely in Egypt to appear it was planted there. If it was a ISIS/Al Qaeda plot, it just seem too quick after Russians started bombing in Syria to the any plot taking shape. I hate to indulge in conspiracy theories, but with Russkies, I wouldn't put it passed them.
Yeah, it occurred to me as well.
Reports are filtering out of CNN that Russia is expanding their Syria campaign so...maybe this bombing is a fabricated casus belli...
Awww, that polar bear just wants a Coke and a smile!
Quote from: Gusington on November 05, 2015, 09:40:00 AM
Reports are filtering out of CNN that Russia is expanding their Syria campaign so...maybe this bombing is a fabricated casus belli...
I'm cynical, but not that cynical.
Russia had to amp up its response after this, and they weren't pussyfooting around before it, either.
Putin's problem was that, while he was paying lip service to daesh, he wasn't focusing most of his attention on it. He was spending most of his time trying to beat back the anti-Assad forces. Now his attention will be forced to shift to daesh.
Latest word I've heard on the Airbus explosion, is that Egypt hadn't released any analysis of wreckage (looking for bomb chemical remnants), but that the US and Britain had upgraded their evaluation to almost-certainly-an-ISIS-bomb based on tracking ISIS chatter among IS leaders who ought to be in a position to know.
If Canada takes the Kardashians, do they also have to take all their damned boyfriends? I'd chip in on that deal myself.
Quote from: LongBlade on November 05, 2015, 09:46:06 AM
Quote from: Gusington on November 05, 2015, 09:40:00 AM
Reports are filtering out of CNN that Russia is expanding their Syria campaign so...maybe this bombing is a fabricated casus belli...
I'm cynical, but not that cynical.
Russia had to amp up its response after this, and they weren't pussyfooting around before it, either.
Putin's problem was that, while he was paying lip service to daesh, he wasn't focusing most of his attention on it. He was spending most of his time trying to beat back the anti-Assad forces. Now his attention will be forced to shift to daesh.
They can destroy one, then turn their attention to the other. The question for me is: how far will they pursue ISIS fighters into Iraqi territory? Will they ally with Iraqi Shiite forces? Will they/can they push all the way to the Iranian border? Will they/can they effectively establish a Shiite Islamic Republic of Iraq as an Iranian puppet?
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 05, 2015, 10:39:38 AM
If Canada takes the Kardashians, do they also have to take all their damned boyfriends? I'd chip in on that deal myself.
No "ifs" about it. No deal, no deal, no deal. No even if we throw-in Celine & Nickleback. No effing deal!
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 05, 2015, 12:26:44 PM
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 05, 2015, 10:39:38 AM
If Canada takes the Kardashians, do they also have to take all their damned boyfriends? I'd chip in on that deal myself.
No "ifs" about it. No deal, no deal, no deal. No even if we throw-in Celine & Nickleback. No effing deal!
+100000000000000000000 >:(
Russia deploys AA missiles (http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-russia-syria-missiles-20151105-story.html) to "protect their warplanes". Sounds like we're getting closer and closer to an "accident" ???
Good thing we pulled out before we went back in!
In Soviet Russia pulling out IS a proven form of control!
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 05, 2015, 10:39:38 AM
If Canada takes the Kardashians, do they also have to take all their damned boyfriends? I'd chip in on that deal myself.
HEEELLLLLLLL NO! We are not taking Kanye West off your hands. You're stuck with that dude. And we're also not taking Caitlyn Jenner.
Damn. Is that why you guys cancelled the pipeline deal? I'll take it back then. Just a question after all. Shit if you had them, you'd try to get rid of them too. How about if we give you an NFL franchise?
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 06, 2015, 08:39:49 AM
... How about if we give you an NFL franchise?
We've already got one... the Toronto Maple Leafs. ;)
Quote from: Arctic Blast on November 06, 2015, 01:54:54 AM
HEEELLLLLLLL NO! We are not taking Kanye West off your hands. You're stuck with that dude. And we're also not taking Caitlyn Jenner.
You're stuck with that dude, too, ha ha!
(It's a trap.)
Don't forget Kanye is going to run for President next time. Still don't want him? ^-^
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Ffacebook%2F000%2F728%2F467%2F330.jpg&hash=85530abbacb6b52a6f62ca3f2dc253fabecf6398)
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 06, 2015, 08:39:49 AM
Damn. Is that why you guys cancelled the pipeline deal? I'll take it back then. Just a question after all. Shit if you had them, you'd try to get rid of them too. How about if we give you an NFL franchise?
Ok, I'm listening... go on....
Latest Sinai Crash news: black box recovered, seems to confirm the explosion was not due to engine or other mechanical problem.
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 06, 2015, 03:20:35 PM
Latest Sinai Crash news: black box recovered, seems to confirm the explosion was not due to engine or other mechanical problem.
The plot thickens.
Haven't kept up since this morning, but all that's lacking so far seems to be direct 'smoking gun' evidence (e.g. bomb residue on crash pieces).
Which hasn't been disconfirmed yet.
While a bomb is certainly likely, the 'black box' isn't omniscient. TWA 800 was brought down by cheap wiring that caused an electrical short, sending current into a *nearly* empty fuel tank and igniting the remaining vapor. Figuring this out was the result of the most expensive crash investigation in modern history. Ironically, had the tank been full it might not have exploded at all.
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 06, 2015, 03:38:35 PM
Haven't kept up since this morning, but all that's lacking so far seems to be direct 'smoking gun' evidence (e.g. bomb residue on crash pieces).
Keep in mind the two nations investigating this both have vested interests in controlling the release of information.
The Egyptians don't want to see the last of their dying tourist die.
The Russians don't want anything provocative released until they are good and ready to smack someone around.
Bottom line: I wouldn't expect timely, correct information.
There is so much crazy theory around TWA 800 it's hard to decide what to believe. A lot of witnesses claimed to see a rocket or missile of some type bring it down leading to conspiracy theories galore.
They should have taken my plan at the 1st post. Now, Russia and Iran are going to have primary control of the outcomes in the region.
Quote from: Gusington on November 06, 2015, 06:25:31 PM
There is so much crazy theory around TWA 800 it's hard to decide what to believe. A lot of witnesses claimed to see a rocket or missile of some type bring it down leading to conspiracy theories galore.
Yeah, some VERY credible descriptions too, as I recall. I guess that the government doesn't like to believe Long Islanders.
That, and they don't want some of the more incriminatng rumors to gain any more traction. Better that it all just fades away.
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 10, 2015, 09:12:35 AM
Quote from: Gusington on November 06, 2015, 06:25:31 PM
There is so much crazy theory around TWA 800 it's hard to decide what to believe. A lot of witnesses claimed to see a rocket or missile of some type bring it down leading to conspiracy theories galore.
Yeah, some VERY credible descriptions too, as I recall. I guess that the government doesn't like to believe Long Islanders.
When that incident took place I was in a building that also housed the air traffic office for the Boston airport.
I spoke to no one directly.
Our sales manager, however, did claim to have spoken with at least one of them who claimed to him that they had seen something on radar which went up and met the plane.
Obviously this is all hearsay.
That said, I sure do wonder.
One of the few conspiracies that (despite what many a regular WG poster might claim) actually holds some water, IMHO.
Daesh asshole meets mortar.
Couldn't happen to a nicer Man-Made Disaster Engineer.
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 11, 2015, 12:02:04 AM
Couldn't happen to a nicer Man-Made Disaster Engineer.
+1
God is Great! ;D
I don't have much sympathy for him wheezing out in the foreground, but I kind of worry about the wailing woman in the background. :-\
QuoteTwo federal agents operating under the umbrella of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) are claiming that eight Syrian illegal aliens attempted to enter Texas from Mexico in the Laredo Sector. The federal agents spoke with Breitbart Texas on the condition of anonymity, however, a local president of the National Border Patrol Council (NBPC) confirmed that Laredo Border Patrol agents have been officially contacting the organization with concerns over reports from other federal agents about Syrians illegally entering the country in the Laredo Sector. The reports have caused a stir among the sector's Border Patrol agents.
The sources claimed that eight Syrians were apprehended on Monday, November 16, 2015. According to the sources, the Syrians were in two separate "family units" and were apprehended at the Juarez Lincoln Bridge in Laredo, Texas, also known officially as Port of Entry 1.
Border Patrol agent and NBPC Local 2455 President Hector Garza told Breitbart Texas, "Border Patrol agents who we represent have been contacting our organization to voice concerns about reports from other agents that Syrians crossed the U.S. border from Mexico in the Laredo Sector. Our agents have heard about Syrians being apprehended in the area from other federal agents." Agent Garza added, "At this time, I cannot confirm or deny that Syrians have crossed, for security reasons."
source: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/18/report-8-syrians-caught-at-texas-border-in-laredo/
There were also 5 Syrians detained in Honduras yesterday with fake passports from Greece. According to the police they were heading for the US.
Quote from: OJsDad on November 19, 2015, 07:54:11 AM
There were also 5 Syrians detained in Honduras yesterday with fake passports from Greece. According to the police they were heading for the US.
Stories like this make me wonder how many might be mixing with Latinos crossing the border illegally.
I thought this had been happening for a while before the current problems.
Right. Why worry about the 10,000 coming here as refugees when the 10,000 coming here illegally will beat them here? Maybe they'll get confused and bomb each other. I say put big mirrors up in front of every Govt. building and when they see themselves coming, it will scare the shit out of them and they run the other way. It works with my cat.
Quote from: Gusington on November 19, 2015, 08:45:57 AM
I thought this had been happening for a while before the current problems.
It has, but now the mainstream media might be paying a little attention.
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 19, 2015, 10:38:01 AM
Right. Why worry about the 10,000 coming here as refugees when the 10,000 coming here illegally will beat them here? Maybe they'll get confused and bomb each other. I say put big mirrors up in front of every Govt. building and when they see themselves coming, it will scare the shit out of them and they run the other way. It works with my cat.
That...that's f'ing brilliant. I wonder, do you think they'd also chase a laser pointer if we shine it on the floor? :))
This just rolled across my email this morning. It's a defense of allowing refugees into the country - from a highly unlikely source.
I haven't vetted the numbers for accuracy yet but if they're true it's a thought worth considering.
Quote"In the 14 years since September 11, 2001, the United States has resettled 784,000 refugees from around the world, according to data from the Center for Migration Studies, a D.C. think tank. And within that population, three people have been arrested for activities related to terrorism. None of them were close to executing an attack inside the U.S., and two of the men were caught trying to leave the country to join terrorist groups overseas.
"I think I can count on one hand the number of crimes of any significance that I've heard have been committed by refugees," said Lavinia Limón, a veteran of refugee work since 1975 and the president of the U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants. "It just hasn't been an issue."
.....
QuoteDefenseone.com continues, that there are two reasons this isn't as big a problem as you may think ...
" ... The first is that there is a key difference between people seeking placement in the U.S. as refugees and the millions of people who have flooded into Europe seeking asylum. The Syrians in Europe in many cases are already at or over the border, having come directly from Syria in to Turkey and then Greece and elsewhere; that situation is more akin to the thousands of Cubans who have fled by boat to South Florida or the migrant workers from Central America who gathered at the U.S.-Mexico border last summer. A refugee applying for resettlement in the U.S., by contrast, must endure a screening process that takes as long as two years before stepping foot on American soil."
And the second reason?
"... since the program was briefly halted and then overhauled after the 9/11 attacks, refugee applicants are subject to the highest level of securitychecks of any type of traveler to the U.S. The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees initially chooses which refugees to refer to the U.S. after doing its own check. U.S. officials then conduct multiple in-person interviews and verify a refugee's story with intelligence agencies and by running background checks through several government databases, including DHS and the National Counterterrorism Center. As a result of that extensive process, only around 2,000 Syrian refugees have been resettled in the U.S. since its civil war broke out in 2011—a much lower number than many previous refugee crises."
Full article found here: http://preparedgunowners.com/?p=899
The statistics are not in favor of peaceful assimilation of non-like cultures. See Europe for antidotal evidence. The more interesting statistics would be to compare legal immigrant vs illegal or refugee across a broad spectrum of areas from crime to income levels to welfare support.
Quote from: Bison on November 19, 2015, 01:29:43 PM
The statistics are not in favor of peaceful assimilation of non-like cultures. See Europe for antidotal evidence. The more interesting statistics would be to compare legal immigrant vs illegal or refugee across a broad spectrum of areas from crime to income levels to welfare support.
Well, as they say on investment disclaimers, past success is no indication of future results.
Quote from: LongBlade on November 19, 2015, 01:42:42 PM
Quote from: Bison on November 19, 2015, 01:29:43 PM
The statistics are not in favor of peaceful assimilation of non-like cultures. See Europe for antidotal evidence. The more interesting statistics would be to compare legal immigrant vs illegal or refugee across a broad spectrum of areas from crime to income levels to welfare support.
Well, as they say on investment disclaimers, past success is no indication of future results.
Nor should consistent patterns be ignored out of a sense of feeling good or perhaps it'll be different this time.
QuoteObama administration counter-terrorism officials have trained domestic Homeland Security law enforcement officers to focus on the behavior of people entering the United States, rather than their political, ideological or religious background.
The training directives from top Homeland Security officials raise questions about the effectiveness of the screening process for Syrian refugees.
source: http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/19/obama-officials-trained-to-focus-on-behavior-not-religion-or-ideology/
Quote from: LongBlade on November 19, 2015, 03:10:59 PM
QuoteObama administration counter-terrorism officials have trained domestic Homeland Security law enforcement officers to focus on the behavior of people entering the United States, rather than their political, ideological or religious background.
The training directives from top Homeland Security officials raise questions about the effectiveness of the screening process for Syrian refugees.
source: http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/19/obama-officials-trained-to-focus-on-behavior-not-religion-or-ideology/
Oh please! :2funny: :idiot2:
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 19, 2015, 03:13:01 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on November 19, 2015, 03:10:59 PM
QuoteObama administration counter-terrorism officials have trained domestic Homeland Security law enforcement officers to focus on the behavior of people entering the United States, rather than their political, ideological or religious background.
The training directives from top Homeland Security officials raise questions about the effectiveness of the screening process for Syrian refugees.
source: http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/19/obama-officials-trained-to-focus-on-behavior-not-religion-or-ideology/
Oh please! :2funny: :idiot2:
It sounds crazy, but statistics show that if you combine this method with a pinky-swear it's highly effective.
I rest my case.
Now, now...they're going to run them all through TSA checkpoints at the airport. You know those guys will catch any potential terrorists! Right? Right?!
To be fair, behavior screening might throw up indicators which someone could more easily lie about on questions of mere religion or ideology.
For example, "Do you think it's a good idea to invade Russia in the winter?"
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/12279038_10103715995407378_8081465026935237782_n.jpg?oh=0adb7054b8fc9f05227a271435b6d324&oe=56ADF48C)
CNN has a story running today on how more Mexicans are leaving the US than are coming in.
Quote from: Gusington on November 19, 2015, 07:24:49 PM
CNN has a story running today on how more Mexicans are leaving the US than are coming in.
Yeah, Fox has been reporting that most immigrants these days are from Central America.
Well, and maybe Syria.
I'm not sure how anyone can justify not giving 2 cents about who and where people are coming into the country from. Just illness and disease should be enough to warrant at least some precautions not to mention drugs, human trafficking, and JV terrorism.
Get your sound logic away from their inane argument.
Quote from: LongBlade on November 19, 2015, 11:43:15 AM
This just rolled across my email this morning. It's a defense of allowing refugees into the country - from a highly unlikely source.
I haven't vetted the numbers for accuracy yet but if they're true it's a thought worth considering.
Defenseone.com continues, that there are two reasons this isn't as big a problem as you may think ...
" ... The first is that there is a key difference between people seeking placement in the U.S. as refugees and the millions of people who have flooded into Europe seeking asylum. The Syrians in Europe in many cases are already at or over the border, having come directly from Syria in to Turkey and then Greece and elsewhere; that situation is more akin to the thousands of Cubans who have fled by boat to South Florida or the migrant workers from Central America who gathered at the U.S.-Mexico border last summer. A refugee applying for resettlement in the U.S., by contrast, must endure a screening process that takes as long as two years before stepping foot on American soil."
Wait, I don't get it. How can we allow 10,000 to enter the US over the next year if the bold part is correct? I know it says 'as long as' but I still don't see it.
Quote from: bbmike on November 20, 2015, 11:32:50 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on November 19, 2015, 11:43:15 AM
This just rolled across my email this morning. It's a defense of allowing refugees into the country - from a highly unlikely source.
I haven't vetted the numbers for accuracy yet but if they're true it's a thought worth considering.
Defenseone.com continues, that there are two reasons this isn't as big a problem as you may think ...
" ... The first is that there is a key difference between people seeking placement in the U.S. as refugees and the millions of people who have flooded into Europe seeking asylum. The Syrians in Europe in many cases are already at or over the border, having come directly from Syria in to Turkey and then Greece and elsewhere; that situation is more akin to the thousands of Cubans who have fled by boat to South Florida or the migrant workers from Central America who gathered at the U.S.-Mexico border last summer. A refugee applying for resettlement in the U.S., by contrast, must endure a screening process that takes as long as two years before stepping foot on American soil."
Wait, I don't get it. How can we allow 10,000 to enter the US over the next year if the bold part is correct? I know it says 'as long as' but I still don't see it.
Good point.
No idea.
Defenders seem to indicate all these checks will take place, so "let them in" may be a misnomer. "Start the process" may be a better way to say it.
These inconvenient truths keep popping up...
QuoteFox News is told by a source close to the CENTCOM analysts that the pressure on them included at least two emails saying they needed to "cut it out" and "toe the line."
Separately, a former Pentagon official told Fox News there apparently was an attempt to destroy the communications. The Pentagon official said the email warnings were "not well received" by the analysts.
Those emails, among others, are now in the possession of the Pentagon inspector general. The IG's probe is expanding into whether intelligence assessments were changed to give a more positive picture of the anti-ISIS campaign.
source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/23/emails-show-dod-analysts-told-to-cut-it-out-on-isis-warnings-ig-probe-expands.html?intcmp=hpbt1
Turkey shoots down Russian plane
Quote from: undercovergeek on November 24, 2015, 03:42:26 AM
Turkey shoots down Russian plane
Yup, as if it wasn't messy enough down there already
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/621613/Turkey-shoots-jet-airspace (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/621613/Turkey-shoots-jet-airspace)
I guess it was bound to happen, but what the heck was a Russian jet doing in Turkish airspace?
That is assuming the Turkish claim is right.
This could get ugly real fast...
russia says not in air space and shot down from the ground
Turkey says in air space shot down by air force :-\
Why are the Turks shooting at Russian planes at all? Why not just escort them back out of their air space?
Did they think is was a Syrian plane? Even still they are not at war with Syria so why shoot and not escort?
Quote from: Barthheart on November 24, 2015, 07:51:55 AM
Why are the Turks shooting at Russian planes at all? Why not just escort them back out of their air space?
Did they think is was a Syrian plane? Even still they are not at war with Syria so why shoot and not escort?
Apparently it was warned, repeatedly, to leave Turkish airspace. Maybe the Turks aren't happy that the Russkies are helping Assad?
Interesting that the Russians are saying that it was shot down from the ground. Maybe they hope to not escalate against the Turks/NATO. Maybe they'd like a partnership with NATO, seeing a bigger threat from Muslim extremists.
exactly what the BBC said, saying it was ground based gives them a get out of jail card
but the turks are 'no, no WE definitely shot you down!!'
10 warnings in 5 mins apparently - with all the sabre rattling, cat and mouse flying into other countries air space to see what happens, it was bound to come
And yet the Turks won't do anything about ISIS...
Quote from: panzerde on November 24, 2015, 08:34:37 AM
And yet the Turks won't do anything about ISIS...
Perhaps they enjoy the instability. It is certainly keeping the Kurds busy.
It was highly irresponsible to direct that pilot that close to the border, regardless of how the jet got shot down. >:(
The salient question is probably, what does Putin gain or thinks he'll gain from brinking the Turks?
(It is of course possible that this was ordered by someone downstream without Putin's permission, but then what did that commander think he was going to gain? Was there an ISIS target, or heh a non-ISIS target, that absolutely needed a setup vector from within Turkish airspace?)
Could have been noting more than pilot error. The Middle East is a fairly compact area to go whizzing around at those speeds. The fact that it was hit over Turkey and crashed in Syria tells one how close everything is. And I'm not sure that a Fencer can turn on a dime.
Anyone hear if the pilot got out?
Just saw this about the pilots'
"Turkmen Brigade in Syria Says They Shot Pilots While Parachuting"
Quote from: OJsDad on November 24, 2015, 09:32:08 AM
Just saw this about the pilots'
"Turkmen Brigade in Syria Says They Shot Pilots While Parachuting"
Huh. Well I guess the plot thickens. I had hoped that the pilots would be returned to Russia unharmed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Turkmen_Brigades
Quote
On March 15, 2015, the official Turkmen governor of Mosul, Iraq before the ISIL took over the city, Esil Nuceyfi, recently stated and confirmed that the Turkish Special Forces Command, especially Maroon Berets and military specialists are training Turkmens both in Iraq and Syria. He reported the location of the training camps in Iraq as the Iraqi Turkmen Front and other Iraqi officials have reached on an agreement which allows the training of Turkmens by Turkey and creation of an official Turkmen Brigade under the Iraqi army which will be commanded by an Iraqi Turkmen, under the right to guarantee by the Republic of Turkey, nevertheless he didn't give out the location of Turkish camps in Syria which the Turkmens are being trained, stating that it still takes place unofficially and in a secret way.[6][7] He added that Turkish Forces are training the Syrian Turks to protect their settlements and to join the fight with Syrian Turkmen Brigades in those secretly located camps. Nuceyfi also gave more information saying that Turkish officials have told that military supplies and weapons will be sent to Turkmens in Iraq and Syria in the near future but he isn't acquainted about the exact amount and date.
Later that day, Turkish 'officials' in Ankara, confirmed the statements of Esil Nuceyfi about the before and the positively promising future of the training of Turkmens both in Iraq and Syria .[7]
Quote from: Barthheart on November 24, 2015, 09:12:47 AM
Anyone hear if the pilot got out?
I've got the TV on in the background. Not really paying attention but I have picked up a couple of things.
One report says there were two pilots, one dead. Report says they both bailed out.
I saw another report that said the area where this took place was claimed by Turkey in the 1930s but appears to be disputed by Syria. That might account for the disagreement about which side of the border it took place on.
As with most things like this I expect we'll see contradictory reports for a couple of days before reporters can sort things out. I suspect by the weekend we'll have a good idea as to what actually happened.
This looks like the latest info: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/11/24/turkish-f-16-shoots-down-russian-fighter-jet-near-syria-border/?intcmp=hpbt1
The Russian jet was a Sukhoi Su-24 Fencer, which is a two-seater.
The report also cites US sources indicating that the jet was on the Turkish side of the border.
And NATO has called for an emergency meeting in order to get a report from Turkey.
Hmmm...
Could be someone is trying to send the Russians a subtle message. I wonder what it is?
QuoteA Russian rescue helicopter has been shot down by Syrian rebels while searching for pilots missing after Turkey downed a Russian jet.
The helicopter was forced to make an emergency landing in a government-held area in Syria's Latakia province.
A Syrian insurgent group, which uses U.S. Tow missiles, said its fighters hit the helicopter with an anti-tank missile.
source: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russian-rescue-helicopter-shot-down-6891003
You gotta wonder what Obama told the Turks while he was just there. Or didn't tell them.
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 24, 2015, 11:39:10 AM
You gotta wonder what Obama told the Turks while he was just there. Or didn't tell them.
Yeah, WTF?!! Turks be on a tear.
Al Qaeda suicide bomber takes out leadership of key ISIS brigade (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/11/24/severe-blow-al-qaeda-suicide-bomber-takes-out-leadership-key-isis-brigade/?intcmp=hpbt3)...glad to see they are fighting amongst themselves O0
Quote from: steve58 on November 24, 2015, 12:20:56 PM
Al Qaeda suicide bomber takes out leadership of key ISIS brigade (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/11/24/severe-blow-al-qaeda-suicide-bomber-takes-out-leadership-key-isis-brigade/?intcmp=hpbt3)...glad to see they are fighting amongst themselves O0
That's good news.
Obama must have said something like "please don't start WWIII" to the Turks at least a few times and the Turks reacted as most other countries would.
Nothing could go wrong here. ::)
QuoteRussia now plans to implement new measures aimed at strengthening the security of the country's air base in Syria and in particular to bolster air defense.
Russian guided missile cruiser Moskva, equipped with the 'Fort' air defense system, similar to the S-300, will be deployed off Latakia province's coast.
"We warn that every target posing a potential threat will be destroyed," lieutenant general Sergey Rudskoy said during the briefing.
The Moskva ('Moscow') missile cruise is a flagship vessel of the Russian Black Sea fleet and is one of the fleet's two biggest ships. The cruiser was stationed in Sevastopol but left in summer 2015 after being deployed to the Mediterranean Sea where it joined Russia's standing naval force in the Mediterranean.
source: https://www.rt.com/news/323329-russia-suspend-military-turkey/
Quote from: Gusington on November 24, 2015, 03:36:19 PM
Obama must have said something like "please don't start WWIII" to the Turks at least a few times and the Turks reacted as most other countries would.
President Obama declared Tuesday that next week's climate change summit in Paris would be a "powerful rebuke" to terrorists, speaking alongside French President François Hollande at a joint news conference.
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/261193-obama-climate-conference-is-powerful-rebuke-to-terrorists
Quote from: Bison on November 24, 2015, 05:26:50 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 24, 2015, 03:36:19 PM
Obama must have said something like "please don't start WWIII" to the Turks at least a few times and the Turks reacted as most other countries would.
President Obama declared Tuesday that next week's climate change summit in Paris would be a "powerful rebuke" to terrorists, speaking alongside French President François Hollande at a joint news conference.
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/261193-obama-climate-conference-is-powerful-rebuke-to-terrorists
I'm sure restricting the issuance of carbon credits has the terrorists quaking in their boots.
We're f*cking doomed.
Quote from: Gusington on November 24, 2015, 06:27:25 PM
We're f*cking doomed.
Nah. My brother hasn't sent me a telegraph saying "Alas, Babylon".
^The Russians probably cut the wires.
Screw it maybe it is WWIII.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/opinions/ghitis-russia-jet-shot-down/index.html
Quote from: Gusington on November 24, 2015, 06:52:24 PM
Screw it maybe it is WWIII.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/opinions/ghitis-russia-jet-shot-down/index.html
Not WWIII. But nature abhors a vacuum.
Quote from: Bison on November 24, 2015, 05:26:50 PM
President Obama declared Tuesday that next week's climate change summit in Paris would be a "powerful rebuke" to terrorists, speaking alongside French President François Hollande at a joint news conference.
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/261193-obama-climate-conference-is-powerful-rebuke-to-terrorists
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freplygif.net%2Fi%2F1370.gif&hash=36db09049627a258c27c9d7839a8f1faea895931)
^ :2funny:
Quote from: LongBlade on November 24, 2015, 05:35:47 PM
Quote from: Bison on November 24, 2015, 05:26:50 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 24, 2015, 03:36:19 PM
Obama must have said something like "please don't start WWIII" to the Turks at least a few times and the Turks reacted as most other countries would.
President Obama declared Tuesday that next week's climate change summit in Paris would be a "powerful rebuke" to terrorists, speaking alongside French President François Hollande at a joint news conference.
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/261193-obama-climate-conference-is-powerful-rebuke-to-terrorists
I'm sure restricting the issuance of carbon credits has the terrorists quaking in their boots.
:2funny: :(
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftheaviationist.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F11%2FInfographic-Russian-air-strikes-in-Syria-top.jpg&hash=ab46da3a8ae5c02e9623a04285b6722988501647)
Info graphic of the Russian strategic bomber raids of last week. Apparently at least some of the Tu-160s flew from their bases in the Kola peninsula, circumnavigated Europe, and came at Syria from the Mediterranean side. Makes you start to appreciate some of the disadvantages of Russia's geography. Also, Russian bombers being escorted by Iranian F-4s and F-14s.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on November 25, 2015, 08:39:46 AM
Makes you start to appreciate some of the disadvantages of Russia's geography.
If Russia wanted a shortcut they'd be nicer to NATO.
Quote from: LongBlade on November 25, 2015, 09:40:33 AM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on November 25, 2015, 08:39:46 AM
Makes you start to appreciate some of the disadvantages of Russia's geography.
If Russia wanted a shortcut they'd be nicer to NATO.
Hmmm...the Russians could argue that they've been trying that for the past 25 years.
made me chuckle
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/11/474560-a-conversation-between-an-isis-terrorist-and-a-progressive-a-facebook-post-goes-viral/
That's pretty good. Only, no leftie will ever cop to that.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on November 25, 2015, 09:46:32 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on November 25, 2015, 09:40:33 AM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on November 25, 2015, 08:39:46 AM
Makes you start to appreciate some of the disadvantages of Russia's geography.
If Russia wanted a shortcut they'd be nicer to NATO.
Hmmm...the Russians could argue that they've been trying that for the past 25 years.
As far as I have read in the news, NATO does not fly bomber missions to the edge of Russian air space. Nor does it seize territory of other countries.
UAV / Go-Pro footage along with 'gun-cam' footage of Jahbat Al-Nusra attacking Assad regime forces
[yt]https://youtu.be/LLdXKEzvEaM[/yt]
And there was me thinking it was a cool World of Tanks mod! ;D
Israel has made a verified appearance. And they are sharing info with Russia.
http://news.yahoo.com/israel-pm-admits-forces-operating-war-hit-syria-194312782.html
Russian warplanes seem to get lost a lot. But over the Golan? Damn, what kind of GPS are they using?
The British Parliament approved extension of bombing campaign against the ISIS to Syria. The debate was quite entertaining. Of course we might not have been in this position if the voted for bombing Assad in 2013. Still it is too little too late, again.
Quote from: pawelj on December 03, 2015, 08:22:30 AM
The British Parliament approved extension of bombing campaign against the ISIS to Syria. The debate was quite entertaining. Of course we might not have been in this position if the voted for bombing Assad in 2013. Still it is too little too late, again.
I watched the debate, listen at work to the 10 hours of speeches, watched the vote, watched all the discussion programmes - finally the vote is cast, finally we can unleash our might and power on Isis
And we launch all 8 of our tornados
8
Don't feel too bad man. The US KNEW where ISIS HQ was and did nothing. When we shared with France, they hit them. Jihad Johnny would probably still be alive if he had stayed in the building.
Quote from: undercovergeek on December 03, 2015, 10:44:47 AM
Quote from: pawelj on December 03, 2015, 08:22:30 AM
The British Parliament approved extension of bombing campaign against the ISIS to Syria. The debate was quite entertaining. Of course we might not have been in this position if the voted for bombing Assad in 2013. Still it is too little too late, again.
I watched the debate, listen at work to the 10 hours of speeches, watched the vote, watched all the discussion programmes - finally the vote is cast, finally we can unleash our might and power on Isis
And we launch all 8 of our tornados
8
Damn. Even with half of the Luftwaffe down for repairs it can field one or two more than you...
i guess im used to dealing with WW2 numbers - honestly, for a million pounds if you would have asked how many bombers could Russia send to Syria i would have said 300-400 - not 60
We could always go back to prop planes and piston fighters.
how many you got?
Quote from: Gusington on December 03, 2015, 08:06:53 PM
We could always go back to prop planes and piston fighters.
Quote from: undercovergeek on December 03, 2015, 08:17:02 PM
how many you got?
Gus can't be too far from Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome (http://www.oldrhinebeck.org) so he can send the Red Baron after IS-Hole.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fctwg.cap.gov%2Fct011%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F10%2FFokker-Dr.11-1024x680.jpg&hash=2c54998092a0da7c07537064fbaf4e5016d7f67c)
I hate to join in with knee jerk, populist opinion but if the new beheading video really is of a Russian and the killer really does taunt Putin, I hope it has the desired effect
Of all the western leaders involved I feel he is the only one to have the balls to say 'fk it' and turn the place into molten glass, like him or loathe him
Quote from: undercovergeek on December 04, 2015, 04:07:23 AMsay 'fk it' and turn the place into molten glass
that's what these guys want - they're trying to bring about the "end times"
im happy with that, you and i can sip cocktails and there will be tourist flights out to the shiny glass lake of ISIS where they used to be - theyll all be martyrs but theres one good thing about martyrs
You guys would love the Rhinebeck Aerodrome. Hell even Putin would love it.
Quote from: undercovergeek on December 04, 2015, 04:07:23 AM
I hate to join in with knee jerk, populist opinion but if the new beheading video really is of a Russian and the killer really does taunt Putin, I hope it has the desired effect
Of all the western leaders involved I feel he is the only one to have the balls to say 'fk it' and turn the place into molten glass, like him or loathe him
He is an anti-Western leader, so put me down in the loathing category. And he is more of a problem than ISIS.
Turkish tanks invade Iraq during a "training mission"
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/05/iraq-orders-turkey-to-immediately-withdraw-troops-sent-across-border
"The Iraqi authorities call on Turkey to ... immediately withdraw from Iraqi territory," the statement said.
"We have confirmation that Turkish forces, numbering about one armoured regiment with a number of tanks and artillery, entered Iraqi territory ... allegedly to train Iraqi groups, without a request or authorisation from Iraqi federal authorities," it said."
Well this is quite interesting. I hadn't seen anything about it in the US media yet, which I guess isn't too surprising.
Wow. Have the Turks officially gone nuts?
Quote from: Gusington on December 05, 2015, 06:07:39 PM
Wow. Have the Turks officially gone nuts?
The Iraqis haven't been able to demonstrate military cohesion - let alone competence - since the US withdrew. Turks are recognizing the new reality and getting there firstest with the mostest.
To do what? Smack around the Kurds more? And risk a wider war more than they already have? They should be standing down, not stepping it up.
Hey, now, if ISIS can create a Caliphate while thumbing their noses at Russia and the West, the heirs to the Ottomans need to get it in gear! :idiot2:
Well this should make everyone in Europe sleep a little better knowing they have a robust vetting process ongoing right now.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3347671/ISIS-army-scientists-set-wage-chemical-biological-war-West-Experts-warn-weapons-mass-destruction-carried-undetected-Europe-Union.html
I wouldn't worry though, as the chemical attacks they've done in Syria have been only marginally successful.
I think the term "ISIS army scientists" is pretty hysterical. :2funny:
It would be if they hadn't already used nerve agents in Syria. But I guess the key is to dismiss the potential danger of the threat because feeling safe is always better then actually being safe.
Quote from: Bison on December 07, 2015, 07:39:40 PM
It would be if they hadn't already used nerve agents in Syria. But I guess the key is to dismiss the potential danger of the threat because feeling safe is always better then actually being safe.
Lighten up Francis. ::)
It doesn't take a "scientist" to steal chemical weapons and then deploy them. The above article makes it sound let these dirtbags are sitting in some secret bunker inventing shit.
You know that they are not concocting their own agents and delivery methods? They don't need a highly refined grade, but one that does enough to cause fear and terror.
An no I don't generally take a light hearted attitude about a fanatical group who already has used chemical agents threating to use them in densely populated centers in Europe. I guess I need to work on my humor.
Quote from: Bison on December 08, 2015, 08:33:45 AM
You know that they are not concocting their own agents and delivery methods? They don't need a highly refined grade, but one that does enough to cause fear and terror.
An no I don't generally take a light hearted attitude about a fanatical group who already has used chemical agents threating to use them in densely populated centers in Europe. I guess I need to work on my humor.
its easy to take a light hearted attitude to stuff when your several thousand miles away. Lets see how light hearted he will be when the threads come to Canada.
Good grief! How do you guys go from me making fun of a bunch dust eaters being called "scientists" to me thinking it's funny these same idiots are trying to use chemical weapons.... anywhere?
???
My comment was on the that fact that someone elevated these morons to the level of "scientist".
But I guess you all want to read want what you want to read into someone's statements..... ::)
No. You are dismissing that ISIS or other like minded organizations are incapable of conducting scientific research, which in terms of money and infrastructure I'd agree. I think it's a miscalculation to think that they do not have highly educated individuals that can conduct research and development into chemical or biological weapons. And yes I would agree that if they have such weapons it's very likely that they acquired them through pre-existing stockpiles, but it's also highly likely that they are trying figure out how to produce low-grade weaponized chemical and biological agents.
[yt]https://youtu.be/RB-RcX5DS5A[/yt]
^ Good song.
Even the Canadian media is reporting ISIS pursuing chemical weapon development. So yeah they do have "scientists".
The Islamic State group is aggressively pursuing development of chemical weapons, setting up a branch dedicated to research and experiments with the help of scientists from Iraq, Syria and elsewhere in the region, according to Iraqi and U.S. intelligence officials.
http://globalnews.ca/news/2349669/isis-aggressively-pursuing-development-of-chemical-weapons-u-s-official/
Hey even CBS has a nice news story on ISIS scientific research of chemical weapons....
http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/isis-attempting-to-build-chemical-weapons
BAGHDAD -- Kurdish authorities in Iraq said Saturday they have evidence that the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, used chlorine gas as a chemical weapon against peshmerga fighters, the latest alleged atrocity carried out by the extremist organization now under attack in Tikrit.http://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-chemical-weapons-iraq/
This is only one of several reports of ISIS using chemical agents in Syria. It is a credible threat.
I never said it wasn't a creditable threat... not even once.... anywhere... ::)
Barth I understand your humor, I do and I'm not trying to attack you personally. Sorry if it seems that way. I just think that ISIS has proven it has capabilities that were dismissed out of hand previously and given recent events in the world and previous use of chemical agents in Syria is a bad mix that makes these type of reports very disconcerting.
Anyway it's all depressing and Brant's youtube link has opened a wealth of good distraction in the form of music.
They're gonna make Obama draw a new Red Line. :knuppel2:
@MD :)
Nice one! :2funny:
It's all Looney Tunes, man. I just remembered it was out there ;)
What exactly is the definition of a, "Galoot"? Anybody?
"Long eared" and "Idjit" are part of it.
There are rumors of a Twenty-one Son Galoot being spotted at the last July 4th parade in Salt Lake City.
Quote from: Sir Slash on December 09, 2015, 11:04:49 PM
What exactly is the definition of a, "Galoot"? Anybody?
Two "l's".
An eccentric person - e.g. everyone at Grogheads.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/galloot
Hod's bodkin!
By that definition, doesn't Yosemite Sam qualify?
QuoteA Russian destroyer had to open warning fire as a Turkish fishing vessel sailed on a collision course towards them and didn't respond to calls from the warship, the Russian Defense Ministry reported.
The incident happened in the northern part of the Aegean Sea some 12 nautical miles from the Greek island of Lemnos, the ministry said.
The crew of the Kashin-class guided missile destroyer Smetlivy spotted the Turkish fishing trawler some 1,000 meters from the Russian warship early on Sunday morning, the ministry said. The ship was sailing towards the destroyer and ignored calls for radio contact and other attempts to communicate.
source: https://www.rt.com/news/325785-russian-destroyer-turkish-trawler/
Quote from: Sir Slash on December 08, 2015, 02:54:49 PM
They're gonna make Obama draw a new Red Line. :knuppel2:
What would have happened if Churchill had gone with an opinion poll instead of writing his "We shall fight them on the beaches" speech?
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on December 18, 2015, 12:22:23 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on December 08, 2015, 02:54:49 PM
They're gonna make Obama draw a new Red Line. :knuppel2:
What would have happened if Churchill had gone with an opinion poll instead of writing his "We shall fight them on the beaches" speech?
I would love for you to make the case that Obama deserves to stand in Churchill's shadow.
What would have happened if the French would have challenged Hitler sending troops into the Rhineland or if Chamberlain hadn't rolled over for Hitler's demands in Czechoslovakia.
Quote from: OJsDad on December 18, 2015, 08:15:13 PM
What would have happened if the French would have challenged Hitler sending troops into the Rhineland or if Chamberlain hadn't rolled over for Hitler's demands in Czechoslovakia.
Hitler would have backed down and WW2 would have happened a few years later, but Adm. Raeder would have gotten to build his battlewagon-and carrier-heavy Kriegsmarine instead of the KM-lite he got stuck with.
Quote from: Staggerwing on December 18, 2015, 09:10:07 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on December 18, 2015, 08:15:13 PM
What would have happened if the French would have challenged Hitler sending troops into the Rhineland or if Chamberlain hadn't rolled over for Hitler's demands in Czechoslovakia.
Hitler would have backed down and WW2 would have happened a few years later, but Adm. Raeder would have gotten to build his battlewagon-and carrier-heavy Kriegsmarine instead of the KM-lite he got stuck with.
Doenitz would probably have had his 300 U-boats. IIRC the original plan was to go to war in '48.
Quote from: LongBlade on December 18, 2015, 06:01:56 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on December 18, 2015, 12:22:23 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on December 08, 2015, 02:54:49 PM
They're gonna make Obama draw a new Red Line. :knuppel2:
What would have happened if Churchill had gone with an opinion poll instead of writing his "We shall fight them on the beaches" speech?
I would love for you to make the case that Obama deserves to stand in Churchill's shadow.
O doesn't deserve anything.
The point was actually made by Prof Fears of Oklahoma, describing Churchill's speech. I thought it was a very interesting point. Sometimes we feel Gov should do the will of the people. Sometimes we feel a leader must make a case. Do we have leaders that politic for points according to what analysis thinks will win votes? Mostly. Will we have another like Churchill that will shape history from his or her conviction? I hope so, in fact I hope such a leader emerges in the Muslim world to end the association of violent terrorism with Islam.
There was an article on Reuters about Muslims feel torn between their American identity and their Muslim identity. That is a first step, realizing something doesn't fit. The next step is fixing the extremist justification in Islam.
O cannot do it.
Got it. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Not at all.
Cheers, mate.
And now things are starting to heat up in the netherlands.
The local population is very angry that a new asylumcenter for 1500 people is to be build there.
http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/12/blowback-in-geldermalsen/
Quote from: jejo68 on December 20, 2015, 08:40:50 AM
And now things are starting to heat up in the netherlands.
The local population is very angry that a new asylumcenter for 1500 people is to be build there.
http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/12/blowback-in-geldermalsen/
That's revolting!
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on December 20, 2015, 11:11:44 AM
Quote from: jejo68 on December 20, 2015, 08:40:50 AM
And now things are starting to heat up in the netherlands.
The local population is very angry that a new asylumcenter for 1500 people is to be build there.
http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/12/blowback-in-geldermalsen/
That's revolting!
I have been saying for a couple of years that civil war is coming to europe within the next decade. And people that used to say I was to pessimistic are now starting to turn around.
Now more and more people in various countries are arming themselves, and there is alot of anger in the various populations. People are getting fed up with the politicians and i fear it will turn very very ugly.
I've felt that way, too. For the last twenty years or so.
I must just live in a different world then the rest of society, because this is not something I'd bring up as an accomplishment.
A boastful recap of the State Department's accomplishments, written by spokesman John Kirby, includes the bold subheadline of "Bringing Peace, Security to Syria" above a more modest entry talking about U.S. aid for those affected by the country's turmoil and the U.S. push for a political transition from President Bashar Assad.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/state-department-claims-peace-syria-2015-win-217168#ixzz3vfpWD8rf
Quote from: Bison on December 28, 2015, 09:41:00 PM
I must just live in a different world then the rest of society, because this is not something I'd bring up as an accomplishment.
A boastful recap of the State Department's accomplishments, written by spokesman John Kirby, includes the bold subheadline of "Bringing Peace, Security to Syria" above a more modest entry talking about U.S. aid for those affected by the country's turmoil and the U.S. push for a political transition from President Bashar Assad.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/state-department-claims-peace-syria-2015-win-217168#ixzz3vfpWD8rf
Quote... resolution to create a road map for Syria going forward.
So basically, a road map for peace.
I've never heard that before. Sounds like a plan
We are living in a George Orwell world now.
Quote from: Bison on December 31, 2015, 02:03:15 AM
We are living in a George Orwell world now.
Aptly put.
Hurray!!! Lets all celebrate Victory in Syria Day!!! We need an emote with blinders on.
And the new year has just about started, with 1500 immigrants from mostly northern africa sexually assaulting and gang raping upwards of 80 women at a train station in germany. Yeah happy 2016.
http://www.focus.de/regional/videos/massive-ausschreitungen-video-zeigt-das-chaos-in-der-koelner-silvesternacht_id_5189367.html
Quote from: jejo68 on January 05, 2016, 08:19:09 AM
And the new year has just about started, with 1500 immigrants from mostly northern africa sexually assaulting and gang raping upwards of 80 women at a train station in germany. Yeah happy 2016.
http://www.focus.de/regional/videos/massive-ausschreitungen-video-zeigt-das-chaos-in-der-koelner-silvesternacht_id_5189367.html
There are also allegations of media cover up.
QuoteCritics have also pointed to the fact that the story has been ignored by many large German news outlets. In general, English-language mainstream media has also failed to report on what happened, although BBC News did cover the story.
"Many people accused the national media of engaging in a cover-up due to the ethnic background of the criminals, with many pointing to the fact that it took days before the details of the story reached national attention," reports the Local.
source: http://www.infowars.com/german-authorities-accused-of-covering-up-mass-sexual-assault-by-hundreds-of-migrants/
Jesus Christ. How does this end?
Quote from: Gusington on January 05, 2016, 01:49:38 PM
Jesus Christ. How does this end?
Not well.
Unfortunately we're probably going to have to re-learn some lessons thought forgotten.
Look what I found...haven't read it yet.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/world/europe/coordinated-attacks-on-women-in-cologne-were-unprecedented-germany-says.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
Meanwhile, let one serviceman slap an Afghan over there and he practically gets the Electric Chair.
Quote from: Gusington on January 05, 2016, 01:49:38 PM
Jesus Christ. How does this end?
Ideally with those "immigrants" being lined up against a wall and taught the airspeed of unladen 5.56mm swallows.
Quote from: JasonPratt on January 06, 2016, 12:40:19 PM
Quote from: Gusington on January 05, 2016, 01:49:38 PM
Jesus Christ. How does this end?
Ideally with those "immigrants" being lined up against a wall and taught the airspeed of unladen 5.56mm swallows.
Not in Europe it won't. They did not kill anyone, so having them deported (to where exactly?) would be the maximum we can hope for.
german press on bbc this morning said police have no idea who theyre looking for, still wont attribute it to immigrants, and apparentley Merkel has said the women should have known better, something about keeping all men at one arms distance to defend their virtue!!
its gone down great with activist groups
The police chief of Cologne initially attributed the assaults to Muslim migrants but the mayor immediately contradicted him.
http://www.therebel.media/watch_cologne_police_chief_slammed_by_mayor (http://www.therebel.media/watch_cologne_police_chief_slammed_by_mayor)
This reads like some kind of sick joke.
when your government tells you to stay away from all the people they just let into your country
:idiot2:
Time for a change in leadership of the government and making plans and implementing a policy to repatriate a few million non-citizens to their home countries.
Definitely. I nominate Bison for the mayorship of Cologne.
Quote from: undercovergeek on January 07, 2016, 09:21:53 AM
german press on bbc this morning said police have no idea who theyre looking for, still wont attribute it to immigrants, and apparentley Merkel has said the women should have known better, something about keeping all men at one arms distance to defend their virtue!!
its gone down great with activist groups
Dont like the dumb B.... but this time it was the female mayor of cologne not emperor palpatine, uhm I mean frau Merkel.
right I dont know who this woman is, but she should definately lay of them mushrooms.
https://twitter.com/Frances_Coppola/status/684841442209099777
Well atleast it was a tad more moderate then the initial tweet.
https://archive.is/nN00G
too bad internet never forgets.
I was already wondering why there is no Cologne thread ...you guys all hide it inside the Syria Discussions
Well, here is the report from Germany
First the world has to know the German media are very reluctant to report the truth!!!
(so better check the Netherland newspapers about incidents all over Germany on that day)
and the politicans the higher up they are on the topempole the more they fled into denial and talk it down ...for a few days, which didn't worded this time around.
of course the female mayor Reker (who told women to keep an armlength (hashtag #einarmlänge) form possible assaulters ....and got the shitstorm which she badly deserved!) and the police higher-ups chiefs in Cologne are bound to the official political view of a ruling Political Correctness dictatorship
and were tossing and turning and wiggling to not let someone calling a spate a spate.
First there were Arabs, or people of Northafrican origin in the focus, people form the Maghreb area states
and heavy blame was put on the police force by the politicans that they had failed on the job to protect and serve
the police officers responded to the reproaches
yesterday eve, a internal police report got leaked and eports from those officers who were actually on duty on the streets and wrote also their duty reports
and so we now learned:
it were in addition to the Maghreb refugees mostly fresh Syrian refugees, who mocked the police, destroyed their preliminary ID-paper in front of the officers, showed them the finger and and scanted "Merkel had us invited you can do nothing"
now the cat is out of the bag!
and the politicians from all sides are more then eager to release statement of upcoming 'harsh reactions' and 'better laws'
lets see...
Meanwhile in nearby Düsseldorf a 'citizen patrol' has formed and want to patrol on Saturday eves ...the leftgreenish media are already firing their intellectual goody two-shoews broadsides at it in news, editorail letters and comments
I wait for "The Minutemen" to form up in my town! :knuppel2: >:D
Daniel Pipes predicted this sort of reaction from the politicians and the media after the Paris attacks.
In essence, the more reality is at odds with their world view, the more entrenched they'd become in their positions. The denial is fascinating to watch.
Quote
Daniel Pipes: Why the Paris massacre will have limited impact
(This article by Daniel Pipes originally appeared in National Review Online, on November 14, 2015.)
The murder of some 127 innocents in Paris by a jihadi gang on Friday has again shocked the French and led to another round of solidarity, soul searching, and anger. In the end, however, Islamist violence against Westerners boils down to two questions: How much will this latest atrocity turn public opinion? And how much will it further spur the Establishment to deny reality?
As these questions suggest, the people and the professionals are moving in opposite directions, the former to the right, the latter to the left. In the end, this clash much reduces the impact of such events on policy.
Public opinion moves against Islamists specifically and Islam more generally when the number of deaths are large enough. America's three thousand dead on 9/11 stands out as by far the largest mortality but many other countries have had their equivalent – the Bali bombings for Australia, the railroad bombing for Spain, the Beslan school massacre for Russia, the transportation bombings for Britain.
Sheer numbers are not the only consideration. Other factors can multiply the impact of an assault, making it almost the political equivalent of mass carnage: (1) The renown of those attacked, such as Theo van Gogh in the Netherlands and the Charlie Hebdo office in France. (2) The professional status of the victim, such as soldiers or police. (3) High-profile circumstances, such as the Boston Marathon bombing.
In addition to the over 27,000 attacks globally connected to Islam since 9/11, or more than 5 per day (as counted by TheReligionOfPeace.com), a huge increase in illegal immigration from the Middle East recently exacerbated feelings of vulnerability and fear. It's a one-way street, with not a single soul ever heard to announce, "I used to worry about Islamism but I don't any more."
These cases make more Westerners worried about Islam and related topics from the building of minarets to female infibulation. Overall, a relentless march rightwards is underway. Surveys of European attitudes show 60 to 70 percent of voters expressing these concerns. Populist individuals like Geert Wilders of the Netherlands and parties like the Sweden Democrats are surging in the polls.
But when it comes to the Establishment – politicians, the police, the press, and the professors – the unrelenting violence has a contrary effect. Those charged with interpreting the attacks live in a bubble of public denial (what they say privately is another matter) in which they feel compelled to pretend that Islam has no role in the violence, out of concern that to recognize it would cause even more problems.
These 4-P professionals bald-facedly feign belief in a mysterious "violent extremist" virus that seems to afflict only Muslims, prompting them to engage in random acts of barbaric violence. Of the many preposterous statements by politicians, my all-time favorite is what Howard Dean, the former governor of Vermont, said about the Charlie Hebdo jihadis: "They're about as Muslim as I am."
This defiance of common sense has survived each atrocity and I predict that it will also outlast the Paris massacre. Only a truly massive loss of life, perhaps in the hundreds of thousands, will force the professionals to back off their deeply ingrained pattern of denying an Islamic component in the spate of attacks.
That pattern has the very consequential effect of shutting out the fears of ordinary voters, whose views thereby have negligible impact on policy. Worries about Shari'a, rape gangs, exotic diseases, and bloodbaths are dismissed with charges of "racism" and "Islamophobia," as though name-calling addresses these real issues.
More surprising yet, the professionals respond to the public's move to the right by themselves moving to the left, encouraging more immigration from the Middle East, instituting more "hate speech" codes to suppress criticism of Islam, and providing more patronage to Islamists. This pattern affects not just Establishment figures of the Left but more strikingly also of the Right (such as Angela Merkel of Germany); only Eastern European leaders such as Hungary's Viktor Orbán permit themselves to speak honestly about the real problems.
Viktor Orbán's Hungary may not last long in the EU. Or maybe he is the group's future leader?
Eventually, to be sure, voters' views will make themselves heard, but decades later and more weakly than democratically should have been the case.
Placing the murderous rampage in Paris into this context: it will likely move public sentiments substantially in one direction and Establishment policies in quite the opposite way, therefore ultimately having only a limited impact.
Until such a time that it's recognized that being proud of western civilization is ok and isn't racist or xenophobic and not being beholden to a nonsensical guilt for past transgressions the west is doomed to accept the consequences of Orwellian thought and speech by the political elite. And I'd also put the irrational, headlong, and thoughtless "progress" toward globalization in the category of political thought that needs to be readdressed.
It's pretty clear to me that globalization is in the shitter.
whatever you guys do, don't let the #rapefugees in your country too
Cologne Police chief got pulled ...well, not for fail on the job , more for letting the politicians including Cologne major look so bad
Merkel is willing to allow it to be easier to deport asylum seekers who commit crime according to the news today
almost like she originally thought the incoming flood would be all Mary and Joseph on donkeys with good honest virtues
I think Frau Merkel is more influenced by white guilt and the stupid notion that she needs to atone for Germany's past. her parents were good socialists from the DDR and I think their views influenced her.
Look at her reaction when someone tried to hand her a German flag at a political rally last year. She obviously despises the idea of German nationalism.
This idea seems to be shared by a fair number of Germany's politicians.
wow - she does not want the flag!
i thought the UK was bad for squashing patriotism and nationilistic views, and im not talking about shaven headed assholes
So now the genie is def. out of the bottle in sweden.
Turns out we had a similar event to cologn in sweden back in august at a concert, where girls as young as 11 and up where sexually assualted by muslim gangs. The whole mess was covered up by police and media, so as not to give more support to the swedish national party (no they Aren´t far right wing, just like their country to stay swedish). And now it turns out alot more is going on over there, and malmo had a very similar attack as cologne on new years eve. Again no reports before now.
This is insanity. I hope it gets...rectified.
Quote from: Gusington on January 11, 2016, 06:38:06 PM
This is insanity. I hope it gets...rectified.
Now it turns out it has happened for at least 2 years in a row at this concert, so I guess its now officially legal since the police dont investigate this shit.
Christ.
I'm sitting here thinking, "Y'know, there were times the Ku Kux Klan had its moments...." :knuppel2:
(My only personal connection to the Klan happens to be when my grandfather's grandfather let a posse go through his fields to approach the house of a man who had been beating his wife and had been warned to start treating her right or she'd soon be a whole lot freer to look for a husband who would respect her. I don't know whether she ever did, but she was very soon afterward widowed after he lynched himself, so she had the opportunity.)
Of course, that kind of anarchy will lead to its own horrible abuses (see: the Klan for example). But I have to wonder how long it will be before people lose so much confidence in the state that they resort to imposing their own justice -- with the consequent and almost-certain risk that hatred will lead them into injustice against people who are only like their rightful targets (not counting probable injustice against their rightful targets).
Quote from: JasonPratt on January 12, 2016, 09:57:37 AM
Christ.
I'm sitting here thinking, "Y'know, there were times the Ku Kux Klan had its moments...." :knuppel2:
(My only personal connection to the Klan happens to be when my grandfather's grandfather let a posse go through his fields to approach the house of a man who had been beating his wife and had been warned to start treating her right or she'd soon be a whole lot freer to look for a husband who would respect her. I don't know whether she ever did, but she was very soon afterward widowed after he lynched himself, so she had the opportunity.)
Of course, that kind of anarchy will lead to its own horrible abuses (see: the Klan for example). But I have to wonder how long it will be before people lose so much confidence in the state that they resort to imposing their own justice -- with the consequent and almost-certain risk that hatred will lead them into injustice against people who are only like their rightful targets (not counting probable injustice against their rightful targets).
i dont think a lot of european cities affected by the huge influx are too far away from that to be honest - not so much personal attacks but mosque burnings, and social buildings
i listened to the ex leader of the EDL on the radio this weekend, hes been overseas and is now returning as the head of a european-wide right wing party - it was the usual rhetoric but a lot of it made enough sense that you could foresee a huge tide turning in their favour - lots of mentions of disrespect for our women, an inbred rape culture amongst muslims with no empathy for women or girls, rape gangs accepted in their society. Here in the UK a few muslims were arrested for been part of such a gang in the north of england - however, they preyed on homeless, parentless, disaffected kids in state homes - there is such an undercurrent of hatred now, that if and when they grab an actual child with caring parents, someone who is likely to contact that person we all know about getting a gun, then the street war starts i feel
Invoking the KKK is never a good idea.
Quote from: Gusington on January 12, 2016, 07:21:32 PM
Invoking the KKK is never a good idea.
Beetlejuice...Beetlejuice....
Quote from: Gusington on January 12, 2016, 07:21:32 PM
Invoking the KKK is never a good idea.
well, at least collateral damage when going after IS leaders and servants in an area where the IS/AQ/Taliban had some time to spoil the youth and transform them into monsters is actually a good thing
Arclight them up.
unfortunately in case of Germany, Merkel will only drop teddies as
human relief as replacement for those that got beheaded
I have to apologize to Europe and the World as German that we were not able to throw out Merkel out of the office yet.
There are elections in federal states Baden-Württemberg, Rheinland-Pfalz, Sachsen-Anhalt on 3/13
and this will be a quake that hopefully shake political Berlin with a magnitude of 9 ! :knuppel2:
IF Not, and the civil wars starts here , i hope for air drops! or mail me the geo data of the nearest still hidden Gladio cache
Quote from: Gusington on January 12, 2016, 07:21:32 PM
Invoking the KKK is never a good idea.
I know. Just talking about the temptation of a Godzilla Threshold there. :(
Meanwhile, here's a piece from the RealClear Politics webjournal yesterday.
Multiculturalism Trumps Protecting Women From Rape (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/01/12/multiculturalism_trumps_protecting_women_from_rape_129285.html)
QuoteSince the scores of New Year's Eve sexual attacks on German women by hundreds of men identified as Arab or North African, the left in Germany has faced a dilemma: which to fight for first -- women's human rights or multiculturalism?
Don't apologize for Merkel Mike. We did Obama, twice. :'( The political Left will always opt for the choice that furthers their agenda most which is multiculturalism over women's rights in this case. It changes society in a greater, left-er way. One example here in the States is Union jobs vs Environmentalism. The Left opts for the environment because it puts a bigger hit on Capitalism and that's where all the Cool People go-- with their money.
Quote from: JasonPratt on January 13, 2016, 09:47:32 AM
Meanwhile, here's a piece from the RealClear Politics webjournal yesterday.
Multiculturalism Trumps Protecting Women From Rape (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/01/12/multiculturalism_trumps_protecting_women_from_rape_129285.html)
QuoteSince the scores of New Year's Eve sexual attacks on German women by hundreds of men identified as Arab or North African, the left in Germany has faced a dilemma: which to fight for first -- women's human rights or multiculturalism?
Reading that article made me sick to my stomach.
Je suis Charlie (Martel!) :)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.stern.de%2F6647070%2F16x9-940-529%2F5b9a8b276bf7cfb550f4b91c0aa8061c%2FQP%2Fcharlie-hebdo-aylan.jpg&hash=36497688f885705197cd159174232ec4b995d40e)
(rough translation : What drowned A(s)ylan would have become if allowed to grow up? An ass grabbing rapist in Germany )
;D
Mike, I hope you're not endorsing the idea that drowning Syrian children is a good way to prevent terrorist attacks in Germany? :o
I realize there is a lot of legitimate frustration and fear over there regarding this crisis, but that sort if thinking got your country into some trouble a few decades ago...
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on January 15, 2016, 07:53:30 AM
Mike, I hope you're not endorsing the idea that drowning Syrian children is a good way to prevent terrorist attacks in Germany? :o
I realize there is a lot of legitimate frustration and fear over there regarding this crisis, but that sort if thinking got your country into some trouble a few decades ago...
Jesus he links a satirical drawing and you imidiately pull the nazi card because he is german.
And people wonder why germany still has to suffer from some bullshit guilt trip over what happened before most alive were born.
Bullshit guilt trip? Wiping out almost an entire group of people, including a lot of my own family, isn't bullshit. Just when I think I can befriend you and identify with your anger over this issue, you pull this again.
Listen, we all know MikeGER is the furthest thing from a Nazi. And Airborne Rifles is a great dude as well.
So calm down.
There is a big difference between the scapegoating and massacre of Jews by the Nazis and the anger against a population that is violent and demanding societal change just because they have come to the country.
Anyway not that it matters but I think everyone needs to relax a bit including me.
Let's all chill by the fire and pass around the pipe full of halfling's leaf... :coolsmiley:
We all going to Colorado sometime soon? :P
Bewbs! :D
(https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/tumblr_nypc7encfr1qf3ak6o1_1280.jpg?quality=94&strip=info&w=920)
AWESOME! My three favorite things!
I didn't see Yankees, elephants, or bugs mentioned anywhere in this thread at all.
You know me too well, sir :)
I think I know that girl. She's the one that always walks into the bar by herself AFTER I start hitting-on her best friend that I was just certain was going to be the last girl to walk into the bar. That's my biggest problem--- Premature Infatuation. :idiot2:
Quote from: Gusington on January 15, 2016, 07:57:25 PM
Bullshit guilt trip? Wiping out almost an entire group of people, including a lot of my own family, isn't bullshit. Just when I think I can befriend you and identify with your anger over this issue, you pull this again.
Listen, we all know MikeGER is the furthest thing from a Nazi. And Airborne Rifles is a great dude as well.
So calm down.
So for all of time, people who werent even born at the time are going to have to repent what their forefarthers did ? That was my main point.
Their is a big, big difference between never to forget, and to keep blaming the entire future population of a country.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on January 15, 2016, 07:53:30 AM
Mike, I hope you're not endorsing the idea that drowning Syrian children is a good way to prevent terrorist attacks in Germany? :o
i don't plan to drown toddlers ...but i cant guarantee on young (fit for military service) males in the public indoor swimming pool >:D
"A western German town has barred adult male asylum seekers from its public indoor swimming pool after receiving complaints that some women were sexually harassed."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/15/german-town-bans-male-refugees-from-swimming-pool
...of course after a shitstorm at Twitter and then the usual media the mayor is taking it back after the weekend
I'm... pretty conflicted about this, which has some strong relations to the Syrian/Iraqian problem.
http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/news/story/1001/20160126/EOL5013
Quote[Iranian President]Hassan Rouhani's visit to the Holy See saw the first meeting between a pope and an Iranian president since 1999. Iran, which agreed to limit its nuclear activities in exchange for an end to economic sanctions, is eager to carve out a bigger role in mediating Middle East conflicts. Francis' papacy has been marked by mediation and conflict resolution.
I am sure Rohani has a solution to achieve Mid-East peace. I just doubt it's the one where we get to live to see the achievement. Francis should already know this and act accordingly.
How many divisions does the Pope have?
^^ Napole-ha!
I thought that was Comrade Stalin. Probably copied it from The Nap. The Pope doesn't need any divisions. He brings people to their knees all by himself. :2funny: Sorry. Couldn't resist.
Quote from: Bison on January 15, 2016, 08:53:30 PM
There is a big difference between the scapegoating and massacre of Jews by the Nazis and the anger against a population that is violent and demanding societal change just because they have come to the country.
Anyway not that it matters but I think everyone needs to relax a bit including me.
+1 Bison. Both subjects are emotive.
Btw, while I am sympathetic to the tragedy of the death of Aylan Kurdi, the media have unashamedly milked it for all it was worth to serve an agenda, but they "forgot" to say that the family were safe in Turkey for three years prior to his death, nor that his father was driving the boat at the time of his death... plus there are also allegations that his father profited from people smuggling too... The liberal media has used this death to further a pro-migrant agenda without discussing any other opinions other than as unreasonable by creating a politically correct species of censure on anyone who is critical of unopened borders. It's not to say that there are not people in need, worthy of help, but uncritical, unfettered immigration without any real thought as to who actually are the migrants, nor how they can be reasonably integrated into host communities gets very little airtime if it looks like it will detract from the media agenda. There is a lot of hypocrisy going on.
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/604590/Migrant-crisis-the-truth-about-the-boy-the-beach-Aylan-Kurdi
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/604535/Aylan-Kurdi-father-people-smuggler-refugee-crisis?_ga=1.158229306.1282622931.1454198657
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/05/aylan-kurdi-mainstream-media-refuse-to-tell-the-truth-about-human-trafficking/
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/aylan-kurdi-died-because-his-father-wanted-dental-treatment-claims-australian-politician-cory-a2942576.html
And now they be mad in Austria. Turns out the immigrants are getting ahead of the locals when visiting hospitals. By order of the government.
AFP is reporting riots as French federal forces start cleaning out a "jungle" migrant camp near Calaise.
http://news.yahoo.com/france-begins-bulldozing-part-jungle-refugee-camp-afp-105702246.html
One of the FB commenters noted "France built a nice, new facility for these people to live in. However, if they move in and get processed then they won't be able to sneak into England which has more generous welfare and benefits for migrants. Don't be fooled, these aren't refugees, they are economic migrants. If they were refugees, they would be happy to stay in a nice, safe country like France."
Not to be outdone in the heat of the moment, some migrants and activists decided to preemptively strike!
QuoteMigrants and members of the British "No Borders" activist group, who launched projectiles at the police, also set fire to about 20 of the shelters, according to an AFP photographer and running clashes continued late into the afternoon.
...I think they must have been watching too much CNN and Fox News last year...?
For those who don't know, the "No Borders" activist group are an Anarchist political organisation.
http://www.noborders.org.uk/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/no-borders-calais-violence-stirred-up-by-british-anarchists-say-french-politicians-a6832076.html
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/638824/No-Borders-Who-are-the-activists-stirring-up-migrant-violence-in-Calais
Quote from: Boggit on March 01, 2016, 08:01:14 PM
For those who don't know, the "No Borders" activist group are an Anarchist political organisation.
http://www.noborders.org.uk/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/no-borders-calais-violence-stirred-up-by-british-anarchists-say-french-politicians-a6832076.html
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/638824/No-Borders-Who-are-the-activists-stirring-up-migrant-violence-in-Calais
Yeah its the same type of shitheads we have here. Calling themselves anti fascist while at the same time violently trying to stop anyone from saying whatever they dont like to hear. Go figure.
Oh I figured they were 'that' kind of 'activist' group. I was just amused that some migrants themselves were joining in the firebombing of the place they were protesting they wanted to stay in.
Logic prevails, finally? At least in one instance.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/11/politics/decades-old-planes-used-against-isis/index.html
Quote from: Gusington on March 11, 2016, 12:34:35 PM
Logic prevails, finally? At least in one instance.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/11/politics/decades-old-planes-used-against-isis/index.html
Or, you know, maybe use the F'ing A-10 for that roll! ::)
^The Warthog is mentioned in that article too.
QuoteThe experiment aims to determine whether slower planes like the Bronco can better support ground troops battling insurgents than more technologically advanced and expensive counterparts such as the F-15 Eagle and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter jets.
Do we really need an experiment to answer that question? We already know the friggin answer.
Yes but think of all the pork barrels!
Quote from: Gusington on March 11, 2016, 02:39:33 PM
Yes but think of all the pork barrels!
We should drop the pork barrels on ISIS.
Jenius!
Quote from: mirth on March 11, 2016, 03:05:05 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 11, 2016, 02:39:33 PM
Yes but think of all the pork barrels!
We should drop the pork barrels on ISIS.
Maybe refit a B2 so it can spray pigs blood from way up high. That would give them something to think about when it suddenly starts raining blood.
Pigs blood and Zika mosquitoes.
Putin knows how to play the game
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/16/world/europe/vladimir-putin-russia-syria.html
Is it a shrewd political move ... or did he just run out of money.....
Either way, it serves his purposes.
In Soviet Russia Syria pull out of you!
Quote from: Gusington on March 15, 2016, 06:59:51 PM
In Soviet Russia Syria pull out of you!
In Soviet Goatfury, Mirth pulls out of him!
Quote from: LongBlade on March 15, 2016, 08:05:58 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 15, 2016, 06:59:51 PM
In Soviet Russia Syria pull out of you!
In Soviet Goatfury, Mirth pulls out of him!
Only when forced to pull out!
Quote from: LongBlade on March 15, 2016, 08:05:58 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 15, 2016, 06:59:51 PM
In Soviet Russia Syria pull out of you!
In Soviet Goatfury, Mirth pulls out of him!
I'd rather be in Syria.
Quote from: mirth on March 15, 2016, 08:41:32 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on March 15, 2016, 08:05:58 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 15, 2016, 06:59:51 PM
In Soviet Russia Syria pull out of you!
In Soviet Goatfury, Mirth pulls out of him!
I'd rather be in Syria.
Oh, sure, it'd be fun while it lasted but afterward you'd falafel.
Maybe, but I wouldn't be As sad.
Quote from: mirth on March 15, 2016, 09:05:09 PM
Maybe, but I wouldn't be As sad.
Jaffa make that pun?
well the campaign season in the Ukraine is about to begin.
I was thinking the samething Star, or the Baltics.
Now maybe Putin will get the Nobel Peace Prize.
Quote from: Sir Slash on March 15, 2016, 09:58:24 PM
Now maybe Putin will get the Nobel Peace Prize.
I hear that this year the NPP comes with two or three annexable republics, winner's choice, as long as they border Russia or Belarus.
The NPP joke may not be a joke. I saw a FB post from a Trump supporter talking about how Trump admires Putin and how Putin's rep has been similarly tarnished by the media, when his every action has been about making peace with his neighbors, and things of that sort.
My first thought was that this was supposed to be satire, but on further examination I think that guy was completely serious. :o
The whole world has turned into an Onion story.
last week SACEUR of NATO accussed Putin of weaponising the exodus, deliberately bombing civilians to further the migration into europe in the hope of destabilising EU governments and states and causing infighting
Then an ex intel guy came on and said we can categorically label Russia as an enemy, not unfriendly, not dilpomatically opposite the UK, straight up an enemy of our country
:o
QuoteGermany is about to run out of prison cells due to the unprecedented migrant influx in the country.
Foreigners make up 9 percent of Germany's population, but close to 30 percent of its prison population. The number is even higher among incarcerated people awaiting trial, as there is a risk they will leave the country.
The states need to hire more people and open new facilities to cope, according to Federal Union of Prison Staff (BSBD) President Anton Bachl.
source: http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/20/germany-is-running-out-of-prison-cells-because-of-refugee-crisis/
They should move them into Angela's house.
I'll second that.
somehow, you just knew something stupid shit like this was going to happen...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-syria-militias-us-cia-islamic-state-20160326-story.html
Quote from: Ubercat on March 22, 2016, 09:55:44 AM
They should move them into Angela's house.
Better yet, Kaliningrad.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on March 27, 2016, 09:28:08 PM
somehow, you just knew something stupid shit like this was going to happen...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-syria-militias-us-cia-islamic-state-20160326-story.html
I had assumed it was a given.
They were saying only a few months ago on the news that only about 5 insurgents have actually been trained by the US. I just thought wow! These guys are really serious about winning this... :2funny:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37398721
"oops" ::)
I don't care how big a PoS Assad is. If we take him out we'll only make things worse for the civilized world. We obviously haven't learned shit from either Iraq or Libya. The Muslim countries deserve their despots. The savages aren't ready for democracy, and we can't MAKE them ready.
Quote from: Ubercat on September 17, 2016, 09:04:06 PM
I don't care how big a PoS Assad is. If we take him out we'll only make things worse for the civilized world. We obviously haven't learned shit from either Iraq or Libya. The Muslim countries deserve their despots. The savages aren't ready for democracy, and we can't MAKE them ready.
Unfortunately, I think Ubercat is quite right.
Hell, even the more progressive Islamic states have been going in reverse (*cough* Turkey) lately.
The Kurds seem to be the only sizable Islamic entity remaining in which a majority shares some values with us. Most likely due to a mix of wanting their independence, receiving assistance from us, and having some of the same enemies for so long.
Quote from: Ubercat on September 17, 2016, 09:04:06 PM
I don't care how big a PoS Assad is. If we take him out we'll only make things worse for the civilized world. We obviously haven't learned shit from either Iraq or Libya. The Muslim countries deserve their despots. The savages aren't ready for democracy, and we can't MAKE them ready.
I would not recommend placing your hopes for stability on bunch of genocidal tyrants. One if the reasons for problems in Iraq and Libya is that tyrants were running the place for such a long time destroying the tradition of civil society. Countries in Eastern Europe still suffer the societal hangover from years of Communist tyranny. In the Middle East case you have to add to that the mix of tribalism and sectarian divisions of already oppressive religion and you get what you see in these countries. We should have been bombing Assad when the use of chemical weapons was first detected. Now we got Russian in the mix and ISIS got more established then would have been possible.
Quote from: pawelj on September 18, 2016, 06:07:19 AM
Quote from: Ubercat on September 17, 2016, 09:04:06 PM
I don't care how big a PoS Assad is. If we take him out we'll only make things worse for the civilized world. We obviously haven't learned shit from either Iraq or Libya. The Muslim countries deserve their despots. The savages aren't ready for democracy, and we can't MAKE them ready.
I would not recommend placing your hopes for stability on bunch of genocidal tyrants. One if the reasons for problems in Iraq and Libya is that tyrants were running the place for such a long time destroying the tradition of civil society. Countries in Eastern Europe still suffer the societal hangover from years of Communist tyranny. In the Middle East case you have to add to that the mix of tribalism and sectarian divisions of already oppressive religion and you get what you see in these countries. We should have been bombing Assad when the use of chemical weapons was first detected. Now we got Russian in the mix and ISIS got more established then would have been possible.
Good post! O0
Next stop - No Fly Zone over Syria.
oops, nvm...different air strike.
Quote from: pawelj on September 20, 2016, 05:55:38 AM
Next stop - No Fly Zone over Syria.
Fine in principle, but who does it benefit? I can't see the Russians, or Assad's lot going along with it.
As to strikes on IS, would the US, France, or the UK really want a no fly zone? How else will they project power against IS?
It certainly helps the Kurds who are the real combatants on the ground against IS. Any no fly zone will not help them, much to the delight of Erdogan and his Turkish government, who are probably on a land grab anyway. And Turkey hasn't exactly been squeaky clean over its dealings with IS either... why hurt the efforts of our best ally against IS?
Quote from: Boggit on September 21, 2016, 08:17:26 PM
Quote from: pawelj on September 20, 2016, 05:55:38 AM
Next stop - No Fly Zone over Syria.
Fine in principle, but who does it benefit? I can't see the Russians, or Assad's lot going along with it.
As to strikes on IS, would the US, France, or the UK really want a no fly zone? How else will they project power against IS?
It certainly helps the Kurds who are the real combatants on the ground against IS. Any no fly zone will not help them, much to the delight of Erdogan and his Turkish government, who are probably on a land grab anyway. And Turkey hasn't exactly been squeaky clean over its dealings with IS either... why hurt the efforts of our best ally against IS?
When I say no fly zone I mean no Syrian/Russian fly zone. The coalition (The Good Guys) would do what is what it like to bomb IS ans obviously police the no fly zone. Of course with Obama still in the office that is no a very likely proposition, but it is the correct way forward.
Quote from: pawelj on September 23, 2016, 07:40:21 AM
Quote from: Boggit on September 21, 2016, 08:17:26 PM
Quote from: pawelj on September 20, 2016, 05:55:38 AM
Next stop - No Fly Zone over Syria.
Fine in principle, but who does it benefit? I can't see the Russians, or Assad's lot going along with it.
As to strikes on IS, would the US, France, or the UK really want a no fly zone? How else will they project power against IS?
It certainly helps the Kurds who are the real combatants on the ground against IS. Any no fly zone will not help them, much to the delight of Erdogan and his Turkish government, who are probably on a land grab anyway. And Turkey hasn't exactly been squeaky clean over its dealings with IS either... why hurt the efforts of our best ally against IS?
When I say no fly zone I mean no Syrian/Russian fly zone. The coalition (The Good Guys) would do what is what it like to bomb IS ans obviously police the no fly zone. Of course with Obama still in the office that is no a very likely proposition, but it is the correct way forward.
Well I can see that the Western, Saudi and Gulf state governments would like it to happen, but I can't see Russia and Al Assad (nor Iran) buying into it. I can see Turkey using it to hit the Kurds, with lots of recriminations from the other Western governments, (but with Saudi and the Gulf just turning a blind eye to attacks on the Kurds).
At the moment there is no 'coalition' per se, save for the air strikes contributors on IS, and without troops on the ground (save for the Kurds) to identify targets, a 'coalition' air supremacy will do little to damage IS, who can hide behind human shields/set up dummy targets etc. Moreover, why would Russia and Al Assad go along with a no fly zone, when that will mean they lose a significant method of power projection and would then pay for its loss with increased ground casualties? I wouldn't if I were Putin or Al Assad. From their perspective the idea is just stupid.
It's still difficult to know who exactly are the good guys fighting Assad. There are a multitude of different forces and allegiances fighting Al Assad, some of whom have changed their public branding like the Al Nusra Front affiliated to Al Queda. It is a hotchpot of shifting alliances of Islamists, Secularists, Democrats etc who are in alliance sometimes and sometimes fighting each other. The so called good guys have committed plenty of atrocities against minorities just as Al Assad has committed atrocities against the Sunni majority. Both Iran and Saudi fight it as a proxy sectarian war, Al Assad for survival of his regime, the Russians to maintain their influence, the Turks to get at the Kurds (and the Turks have been very cosy with IS for a long time). I could go on and on, but you get the drift that it is a messy war with a lot of different agendas being fought for my both sides.
The sad thing is that this war is just going to continue until the parties fighting the proxy war get tired of it. That might not happen for a long time, and the civilians caught in the middle - on both sides - will inevitably pay a price in blood.
My own view is that it is better to carve the country up along ethnic and sectarian lines as independent states. You then can only hope that they'll stay within their own borders and keep to themselves. Unfortunately the hatred runs deep on both sides, so I don't know if that would work, but at least it's an idea worth mooting.
Nobel Peace Prize for Syrian rescue teams?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/05/the-guardian-view-on-the-nobel-peace-prize-give-it-to-syrias-white-helmets
You mean the White Helmets who have deep ties to Al-Qaeda and help with the executions, and who most likely took out the Red Crescent Aid convoy (warning people two days in advance it was going to be hit so not to get involved with it)?
Yeah, I noticed Time Magazine had a cover story on them this week, making them out to be one of the few cheerworthy good guys in the region. (Complete with a famous quote from one of the Syrian Patristic writers on the cover, which I happened to recognize but which I failed to find reference to in the article. Granted I was bouncing around in city traffic at the time.)
Maybe they have a number of bad apples but the group itself isn't entirely compromised yet. Hard to tell. :(
The White Helmets are Al Qaeda??
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the Regime has been trying to smear the White Helmets' public profile with Al Qaida rumors. The volunteer rescue group represent a kind of public hope and defiance of Assad's inhuman war on civilians.
I don't know what to believe anymore.
That's kinda the point of propaganda in war. O0
I thought the point was to believe the side spewing out more "correct" propaganda...
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 10, 2016, 05:47:11 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the Regime has been trying to smear the White Helmets' public profile with Al Qaida rumors. The volunteer rescue group represent a kind of public hope and defiance of Assad's inhuman war on civilians.
Assad is like Hillary Clinton. A total scumbag, but the alternative is worse.
Wait until Assad wakes-up one morning and finds a horse's head lying in bed next him with 'From Russia With Love' on a note stuck in it's teeth. :-X
"Leave the gun- take the Halva..."
Quote from: Gusington on October 10, 2016, 07:34:59 PM
I thought the point was to believe the side spewing out more "correct" propaganda...
That reminded me of seeing a film of Goebbels (I think maybe in the
World At War series or its secondary collections) addressing a German audience in his nifty little schlaeger-fencing way (which I recognized immediately, and then realized I should never, ever use when public speaking or people will connect that back to Goebbels :buck2: :'( ) -- and he's literally bragging to them, explicitly, about how enemy propaganda is crap, not because it's false but because Nazi propaganda is vastly much better.
And everyone was cheering him like he was promising them free gold. (...which, in a way, he was. A horrible, horrible way. :uglystupid2: )
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 10, 2016, 05:47:11 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the Regime has been trying to smear the White Helmets' public profile with Al Qaida rumors. The volunteer rescue group represent a kind of public hope and defiance of Assad's inhuman war on civilians.
Now that you mention it, I wouldn't be surprised about that either. Or even by infiltrating people into the group who then act in support of Al Qaida.
Given that Christians, nuns, priests were specifically targeted by the FSA especially in the early years of the war it is hard to know who actually are the good guys - if any. I also remember Syrians dancing in the streets after 9/11 burning US flags, so again, who are the good guys?
I'm kind of inclined to say the good guys are the Christians, nuns, and priests. :-\ God knows we have our own problems (see for example Lebanon), but at least we have some ideological background that encourages us to be merciful and fair to other people, whom we're supposed to be regarding as those for whom God Most High also died to save and to reconcile us all as family someday.
Second that. O0
The Russians are sending their carrier and a couple of escorts to Syria. The British have sent a couple of destroyers to meet and escort them past the UK. Currently the Russians are still north of Scotland.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uk-sends-warships-to-shadow-russian-naval-task-force/ar-AAj9rt4?li=AA4Zpp&ocid=spartanntp
I read on the BBC that the Russians are sending a battlecruiser...it feels like 1916 not 2016.
Yeah, like the last time Russia sent warships past Britain to Japan(1905) that worked so well for them.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 19, 2016, 10:06:03 PM
Yeah, like the last time Russia sent warships past Britain to Japan(1905) that worked so well for them.
;D Yeah, they might start shooting up some fishing vessels in the fog, thinking they are ISIS suicide ships.
It'd be interesting if the Russians took the English Channel route. Being escorted by British and French ships and aircraft.
My, what better way for the Russian admirals to get a feel for the local geography.
If things go bad the only geography the russians will be,seeing is the ocean floor.
I'd put money on the Kuznetsov breaking down long before reaching the Syrian coast.
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 17, 2016, 07:32:29 AM
I'm kind of inclined to say the good guys are the Christians, nuns, and priests. :-\ God knows we have our own problems (see for example Lebanon), but at least we have some ideological background that encourages us to be merciful and fair to other people, whom we're supposed to be regarding as those for whom God Most High also died to save and to reconcile us all as family someday.
You could probably add Sufi muslims, Ahmadi's, and Alevi's to that outlook as well. Although they describe themselves as muslims, Sunni Salafists (who represent a significant proportion of Sunni's along with Deobandi's, and Wahabi's who add to literalist schools of Islam) don't even recognise these muslims as muslims because of the doctrine of bid'aa (innovation), which is regarded in effect as heresy. The problem is that literally interpreted Islam is largely incompatible with western values, while the reformers who can live in peace with non-muslims are shunned by the fundamental literalists who want religion to remain still in 6th century Arabia.
Quote from: OJsDad on October 20, 2016, 06:56:59 AM
It'd be interesting if the Russians took the English Channel route. Being escorted by British and French ships and aircraft.
They did take the channel route.
I'm about half sure I recall the Sufis and/or the Salafists (both being fairly mystical) believing in some kind of universal salvation, too. That wouldn't be surprising, since Syrian Christian groups were once heavily invested in that before the Muslims arrived and took over, borrowing the local Jewish and Christian academics.
Quote from: mirth on October 21, 2016, 09:28:44 AM
I'd put money on the Kuznetsov breaking down long before reaching the Syrian coast.
I wouldn't take that bet. :buck2:
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 21, 2016, 03:44:53 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 21, 2016, 09:28:44 AM
I'd put money on the Kuznetsov breaking down long before reaching the Syrian coast.
I wouldn't take that bet. :buck2:
I'm surprised they didn't include tugs in the escort.
Quote from: mirth on October 21, 2016, 03:51:37 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 21, 2016, 03:44:53 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 21, 2016, 09:28:44 AM
I'd put money on the Kuznetsov breaking down long before reaching the Syrian coast.
I wouldn't take that bet. :buck2:
I'm surprised they didn't include tugs in the escort.
They did. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37725327
Quote from: Uberhaus on October 21, 2016, 04:36:47 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 21, 2016, 03:51:37 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 21, 2016, 03:44:53 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 21, 2016, 09:28:44 AM
I'd put money on the Kuznetsov breaking down long before reaching the Syrian coast.
I wouldn't take that bet. :buck2:
I'm surprised they didn't include tugs in the escort.
They did. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37725327
Well they're planning better.
Do the Russians have solid anti-ship missile capability?
Quote from: Gusington on October 21, 2016, 05:15:18 PM
Do the Russians have solid anti-ship missile capability?
They've made it an art form. They only way they could try to stay competitive with our carrier battlegroups. Hell, they gave their own carriers ASMs.
Still, they're not likely to get anything past a Burke or Tico.
I'm still reeling from the fact that they have a battle cruiser in 2016.
Quote from: Boggit on October 21, 2016, 12:09:57 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on October 20, 2016, 06:56:59 AM
It'd be interesting if the Russians took the English Channel route. Being escorted by British and French ships and aircraft.
They did take the channel route.
Wow. I'm kind of surprised. Were there a lot of sight seers out to watch.
Its probably to dangerous to take it into deeper oceans.
Makes recovery easier if they keep it littoral areas.
Maybe it will get swarmed by refugees as it passes Calais.
There may be some Russian 'refugees' who jump ship.
I'm surprised the Russians took the change of there not being Syrian refugees in France willing to use boats to suicide into their ships while going through the channel.
Quote from: Gusington on October 21, 2016, 05:15:18 PM
Do the Russians have solid anti-ship missile capability?
Here ya go, Gus
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/5700/russias-carrier-was-designed-to-be-heavily-armed-even-without-its-air-wing
Our Burke's an Tico's were designed specifically to deal with 100+ Backfire raids. This little squadron of rusting russian bullshit is hardly worth mentioning as far as offensive combat capability is concerned.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 26, 2016, 04:42:36 PM
Our Burke's an Tico's were designed specifically to deal with 100+ Backfire raids. This little squadron of rusting russian bullshit is hardly worth mentioning as far as offensive combat capability is concerned.
Hmm...where I have I heard that before? Oh yeah, from me up thread
Quote from: mirth on October 21, 2016, 05:21:33 PM
they're not likely to get anything past a Burke or Tico.
Quote from: mirth on October 26, 2016, 05:02:29 PMHmm...where I have I heard that before? Oh yeah, from me up thread
he's in a repetititititititive mood these days
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 26, 2016, 05:27:16 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 26, 2016, 05:02:29 PMHmm...where I have I heard that before? Oh yeah, from me up thread
he's in a repetititititititive mood these days
You can say that again.
Quote from: mirth on October 26, 2016, 05:28:39 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 26, 2016, 05:27:16 PM
Quote from: mirth on October 26, 2016, 05:02:29 PMHmm...where I have I heard that before? Oh yeah, from me up thread
he's in a repetititititititive mood these days
You can say that again.
he's in a repetititititititive mood these days
He's probably still recovering, sore and dehydrated.
Quote from: mirth on October 26, 2016, 05:02:29 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 26, 2016, 04:42:36 PM
Our Burke's an Tico's were designed specifically to deal with 100+ Backfire raids. This little squadron of rusting russian bullshit is hardly worth mentioning as far as offensive combat capability is concerned.
Hmm...where I have I heard that before? Oh yeah, from me up thread
Quote from: mirth on October 21, 2016, 05:21:33 PM
they're not likely to get anything past a Burke or Tico.
what.... its not like I ever did or ever would disagree about that point.
me saying it just less bitter.
Top half of this article talks about the Russians ships heading to Syria. The bottom half talks about NATO beefing up forces in the Baltics and Eastern Europe. It a WaPo article on MSN.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-warships-to-bypass-spanish-refueling-port-as-nato-pledges-to-bolster-its-defenses/ar-AAjrkqN?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp
QuoteBRUSSELS — Russia canceled a request to refuel a flotilla of its Syria-bound warships at a Spanish port Wednesday, according to Russian state-run media and other news reports. The move came among mounting criticism leveled at Madrid from NATO's secretary general and Britain's defense minister.
The Russian battle group, containing cruisers, submarine hunting warships and Russia's lone aircraft carrier — the Admiral Kuznetsov — were set to refuel in Ceuta, a port situated in north Africa near the Strait of Gibraltar, before heading to the Mediterranean Sea. While Spain has allowed Russian ships to use its refueling facilities in the past, the small armada's likely mission — bolstering Russia's strikes in Syria — has drawn widespread condemnation, forcing Spain into an uncomfortable position with its allies.
"The Russian Embassy in Madrid has just informed us that it is withdrawing the request for permission for stopovers for these ships and these stopovers have therefore been canceled," the Spanish Foreign Ministry said after saying earlier Wednesday that it was reviewing the Russian refueling request according to a report in Reuters.
A spokesman from the Russian Embassy in Madrid confirmed the cancellation to the Associated Press but gave no further details.
Before Russia rescinded its decision to refuel in Ceuta, British Defense Secretary Michael Fallon told reporters in Brussels that the Britain "would be extremely concerned if a NATO member should consider assisting a Russian carrier group that might end up bombing Syria."
"On the contrary, NATO should be standing together," he added.
In recent weeks the Kuznetsov, along with its escort ships, steamed through the North Sea and into the English Channel, drawing a wary eye from European countries that increasingly see Russia as a threat to their security.
The eight-ship battle group, reported to be accompanied by submerged escort submarines, will probably be used to increase the Russian airstrikes in Syria, as Russian and Syrian government forces attempt to break the months-long siege of the city of Aleppo. The Kuznetsov, an aging Soviet-era aircraft-carrying missile cruiser, is set to provide a contingent of strike fighters that will join the already sizable Russian air force presence stationed in northeastern Syria.
"We are concerned about the possibility that the Kuznetsov carrier group can be used as a platform for more attacks against Aleppo and Syria, and thereby exacerbating the humanitarian catastrophe we already see in Aleppo and Syria," NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said Wednesday before a defense ministerial at NATO headquarters.
As Russia flexes its military capabilities both in Europe's waterways and in the Middle East, NATO countries provided more details this week of their efforts to shore up a force designed to deter Russia. On Wednesday, U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton B. Carter outlined the type of units — including artillery and antitank weapons — that the United States is sending to reinforce NATO's eastern flank. The move, announced in February under what the Pentagon calls the European Reassurance Initiative, includes sending a Stryker brigade into the Baltic states and Poland until they are replaced by four NATO battalions in April.
"It's a major sign of the U.S. commitment to strengthening deterrence here," Carter said.
Fallon also announced that Britain would be sending Typhoon fighters to Romania to patrol the region atop earlier commitments to send tanks, drones and 800 ground troops to Estonia in the coming months. The British forces will be supported by French and Danish troops. The British troop contingent is one of NATO's four, 1,000-strong battalions that are to be led by the United States, Britain, Germany and Canada, and deployed throughout the Baltic states and Poland.
On Wednesday, Germany said its would send about 400 troops to Lithuania, supported by forces from Netherlands, Norway, Belgium, Croatia and Luxembourg. Canada is also sending about 400 troops, although they are headed to Latvia along with more than 100 Italian troops. The four battalions are in addition to a 40,000-strong response force designed to counter cross-border incursions of the likes undertaken by Russia in Crimea in 2014.
Stoltenberg said the alliance's response is "proportioned" to Russia's military buildup and its activities along its borders.
"This month alone, Russia has deployed nuclear-capable Iskander missiles to Kaliningrad and suspended a weapons-grade plutonium agreement with the United States," Stoltenberg said.
The Iskander missiles are one more part of a growing arsenal stationed at Russia's naval base in Kaliningrad, which includes advanced surface-to-air missiles that could target aircraft flying well into nearby Lithuania and Poland.
"These moves do not lower tensions or restore predictability to our relations," he added.
More posturing from the Russkies, for internal consumption.
A way to help show their people that everyone else is "out to get them", and that they should steadily expand their military. Which Putin is desperate to show as capable of projecting power around the world, despite breaking down and requiring tugs all the time, but requiring much more of them.
Playing on national paranoia, in the hopes of getting back to a more Soviet style world power and his beloved KGB activities.
I could care less right now, but for the revanchist tendencies of invading neighboring states just because they had been subjects in the past. May as well sell them some weapons to defend themselves, if that trend continues. Otherwise we've been the World Police too long, as it is.
Were the Spanish ever actually considering helping the Russians? >:(
Franco wouldn't have helped them.
That brings up a great comparison...is Syria/Ukraine the Spain of 2016? Russia/Allies getting their freak on for the real thing in a few years? God I hope not.
I think these are the new versions of Cold War proxy fights - Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan in the 80s.
I can go along with that. With a little more chaos thrown in. I'd actually rather it be that, maybe some sort of international order would rise from it. I'd prefer that to Guernica.
Quote from: Gusington on October 27, 2016, 07:49:22 PM
Were the Spanish ever actually considering helping the Russians? >:(
FYI Gus, the Spanish had agreed to allow the Russians to refuel and then backed out when other NATO members complained.
IIRC, Russian warships have taken on fuel in Spain on previous occasions.
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 28, 2016, 05:44:10 AM
IIRC, Russian warships have taken on fuel in Spain on previous occasions.
Yep. The Spanish say the review the requests on a case-by-case basis. It was pointed out that since they had just signed a joint European statement condemning Russia for human rights violations in Syria, this might be a good time to say no.
WTF Spain? How about a moratorium on refueling until things simmer down?
Quote from: Gusington on October 28, 2016, 06:17:10 PM
WTF Spain? How about a moratorium on refueling until things simmer down?
"Cause they're broke and need the money.... ::)
Quote from: Barthheart on October 28, 2016, 08:11:50 PM
Quote from: Gusington on October 28, 2016, 06:17:10 PM
WTF Spain? How about a moratorium on refueling until things simmer down?
"Cause they're broke and need the money.... ::)
Blue Movies would be more respectable.
Little Boy Blue...he needed the money! OH
So what ever happened to that russian "carrier" group?
Lost at sea?
playing Marco Polo with the Dutch: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37928222
The phrase 'nuclear powered battle cruiser' tickles my steampunk funny bone.
Quote from: Gusington on November 09, 2016, 09:34:29 PM
The phrase 'nuclear powered battle cruiser' tickles my steampunk funny bone.
It's closer to a battleship than we're ever likely to have again. :tickedoff:
I know! It's such a weird anomaly.
Weren't the Klingon's Battlecruisers nuclear-powered? And didn't they break-down a lot too?
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 09, 2016, 11:06:38 PM
Weren't the Klingon's Battlecruisers nuclear-powered? And didn't they break-down a lot too?
Yeah, like that crappy Bird of Prey they used to rescue the whales.
Quote from: OJsDad on November 09, 2016, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 09, 2016, 09:34:29 PM
The phrase 'nuclear powered battle cruiser' tickles my steampunk funny bone.
It's closer to a battleship than we're ever likely to have again. :tickedoff:
We're also probably never going to have a sail powered ship-of-the-line again either :P
Quote from: mirth on November 10, 2016, 08:22:22 AM
Quote from: OJsDad on November 09, 2016, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 09, 2016, 09:34:29 PM
The phrase 'nuclear powered battle cruiser' tickles my steampunk funny bone.
It's closer to a battleship than we're ever likely to have again. :tickedoff:
We're also probably never going to have a sail powered ship-of-the-line again either :P
I don't know, a nuclear powered BB with 3-4 rail guns, a very large stock of missiles, laser point defense systems, and well armored doesn't seem all of that bad of an idea.
Raise the Yamato! :clap:
Quote from: mirth on November 10, 2016, 08:22:22 AM
We're also probably never going to have a sail powered ship-of-the-line again either :P
If GI Joe has taught me anything, it's that in the event of a persistent electromagnetic pulse effect we can quickly rig up sail-powered aircraft carriers. O0
Quote from: OJsDad on November 10, 2016, 08:30:20 AM
Quote from: mirth on November 10, 2016, 08:22:22 AM
Quote from: OJsDad on November 09, 2016, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 09, 2016, 09:34:29 PM
The phrase 'nuclear powered battle cruiser' tickles my steampunk funny bone.
It's closer to a battleship than we're ever likely to have again. :tickedoff:
We're also probably never going to have a sail powered ship-of-the-line again either :P
I don't know, a nuclear powered BB with 3-4 rail guns, a very large stock of missiles, laser point defense systems, and well armored doesn't seem all of that bad of an idea.
You might want to Google Arsenal Ship.
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 10, 2016, 09:11:42 AM
Raise the Yamato! :clap:
Give it a wave-motion gun and send it off to thwack the Gamilons!
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 10, 2016, 10:54:41 AM
Quote from: OJsDad on November 10, 2016, 08:30:20 AM
Quote from: mirth on November 10, 2016, 08:22:22 AM
Quote from: OJsDad on November 09, 2016, 09:44:28 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 09, 2016, 09:34:29 PM
The phrase 'nuclear powered battle cruiser' tickles my steampunk funny bone.
It's closer to a battleship than we're ever likely to have again. :tickedoff:
We're also probably never going to have a sail powered ship-of-the-line again either :P
I don't know, a nuclear powered BB with 3-4 rail guns, a very large stock of missiles, laser point defense systems, and well armored doesn't seem all of that bad of an idea.
You might want to Google Arsenal Ship.
I know, just doesn't have the ring of Battleship though. Arsenal ship sounds more like munitions supply ship.
The converted Ohio class SSGNs serve the purpose nicely.
Behold the fierce Russian Navy sets sail for the Med!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fantasticalandrewfox.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2Fhowls_moving_castle_battleships.jpg&hash=fe525c51fc42688f4185d1c5696def6fb393b68c)
Whats that from?
That last one reminds me of an old girlfriend. She made the same kind of wake in the water when we went to the beach. And she smoked. :-*
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 10, 2016, 10:40:57 PM
That last one reminds me of an old girlfriend. She made the same kind of wake in the water when we went to the beach. And she smoked. :-*
I dread to think you might have said at the height of your passion,
"God bless this ship and all who sail in her"... >:D
" prepare boarding parties! "
Looked like she had her stern raked too many times.
Well, I always wondered why everyone called her 'Montana' but she was from Carolina. ::)
Another point of view
https://medium.com/opacity/the-syrian-war-condensed-a-more-rigorous-way-to-look-at-the-conflict-f841404c3b1d#.rrimjywsx
Good article with some equally good points. I think the idea that Muslims in general all secretly desire Western Style Democracy and are just waiting to be liberated from their Islamo-Facist bondage or local Dictators has been greatly over sold, especially in Liberal circles. Some surely do, but I think most, or at least the most vocal, do not and see OUR system of government as chaotic and degenerate. Try telling them they'll be much better-off when their children can all use the same bathroom or dressing rooms and their Imams must marry persons of the same sex and see how quickly they line-up for 'Western Values'. My 2 cents.
Quote from: Sir Slash on December 15, 2016, 11:06:49 AM
Good article with some equally good points. I think the idea that Muslims in general all secretly desire Western Style Democracy and are just waiting to be liberated from their Islamo-Facist bondage or local Dictators has been greatly over sold, especially in Liberal circles. Some surely do, but I think most, or at least the most vocal, do not and see OUR system of government as chaotic and degenerate. Try telling them they'll be much better-off when their children can all use the same bathroom or dressing rooms and their Imams must marry persons of the same sex and see how quickly they line-up for 'Western Values'. My 2 cents.
:DD
Despite the comic suggestion towards the end, I think you draw the right conclusions.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/thanks-to-no-drama-obama-american-leadership-is-gone/2016/12/26/672481e8-cb9c-11e6-a747-d03044780a02_story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/last-remaining-rebels-and-civilians-await-aleppo-evacuation/2016/12/20/915fded2-c686-11e6-acda-59924caa2450_story.html
Dare I even mention the latest UN resolution dealing with Israel? Nah I better not.
Let me guess. They have to move again right?
Pretty much, and every neighborhood they are looking at sucks.
I am certain the good folks at the EU would open their borders for the Jews and welcome them without reservation just like they have done for the Syrians. Oh, I also believe in Peter Pan, the Tooth Fairy, Bigfoot, and aliens. But only the grey ones. 8)
Israel is quietly helping Syrian wounded that make it to their boarder in the Golan Heights.
Link has a video and photos.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/under-cover-of-night-syrian-wounded-seek-help-from-enemy-israel/ar-AAmcVbC?li=AA4Zpp&ocid=spartanntp#image=9
QuoteIt happens nearly every night. After dark, the Syrian wounded come to known locations on the Israel-Syria front in the Golan Heights, driven by desperation to seek help from an enemy army.
Israeli soldiers on lookout or patrol spot them waiting by the fence and whisk them away to a rear position where army medics soon arrive, according to army officials operating in the area that was seized by Israel in the 1967 Middle East war.
Israel refuses to accept refugees fleeing the nearly six-year conflict in Syria, a country with which it remains technically at war. But it has allowed in more than 2,600 Syrians for medical care.
On one bitterly cold January night, gunfire and explosions could be heard in the near distance as Israeli medics dressed the injuries of two Syrian men, one suffering a head wound.
"We're doing everything we can to save their lives, to stabilize them and evacuate them to hospital," said Captain Aviad Camisa, deputy chief medical officer of the Golan brigade.
The medics lift the wounded men onto an army ambulance which slowly drives off down a dirt road.
A Syrian family -- two grandparents, a mother, father and a child aided by a walker -- pass by as they prepare to cross back into Syria in the dead of night.
"Some of the stories stir your emotions. When children come, as a father, it touches me personally," Camisa said.
Millions have fled and hundreds of thousands have been killed in Syria's conflict, which shows only fitful signs of being resolved.
The trail to Israel is full of risks.
Those who spoke to Reuters at Ziv medical Center in Safed, northern Israel, did so freely but asked not to be identified by name or have their faces photographed or filmed for fear of retribution back home.
The Israeli army helped facilitate access to the hospital, perhaps concerned to counter the negative image it has in most of the Arab world.
One man, his legs pierced by shrapnel, survived a bomb attack in his village in which 23 people were killed.
"In the past we used to know Israel as our enemy. That's what the regime used to tell us," he said. "When we came to Israel we changed our minds, there is no enmity between us.
"In the end we discovered that our regime is the enemy of us all," he said, referring to Syrian president Bashar al-Assad.
In a nearby room sits a seven-year-old Syrian girl, her mother by her side. She was hit by shrapnel from a mortar shell about two months ago and suffered life-threatening injuries; her internal organs and three of her limbs were badly hurt.
"In the first weeks we try not to ask them many questions because we are afraid that it will be more stress," said Issa Fares, an Israeli Arab Christian social worker at the hospital, where many of the staff are native Arabic speakers.
Israel has not formally taken sides in the Syrian conflict. It opposes the presence of Iranian forces and the Lebanese militia Hezbollah ranged alongside Assad, but is also alarmed by the hardline Islamist groups fighting against him.
(Writing by Maayan Lubell; Editing by Sonya Hepinstall)
The Admiral Kuznetsov is heading home.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-ship-of-shame-returning-from-syria-uk/ar-AAmeysz?li=AA4Zpp&ocid=spartanntp
QuoteRussian 'ship of shame' returning from Syria: UK
A Russian aircraft carrier used to wage a massive offensive on the Syrian city of Aleppo is on its way back to Russia, Britain's defence minister said Wednesday, calling it a "ship of shame".
"We will keep a close eye on the Admiral Kuznetsov as it skulks back to Russia," Defence Minister Michael Fallon said in a statement.
The Russian warship travelled through the North Sea to Syria last year, to help Moscow ally President Bashar al-Assad's troops recapture rebel areas of Aleppo city after four years of fighting there.
The offensive forced thousands of civilians and rebels to flee the city, after years of intense bombing and clashes that ravaged swathes of Syria's former economic capital.
Fallon called the aircraft carrier "a ship of shame whose mission has only extended the suffering of the Syrian people".
"We are man-marking these vessels every step of the way around the UK as part of our steadfast commitment to keep Britain safe," he said.
Britain is deploying Typhoon jets and a frigate to shadow the Admiral Kuznetsov, which is accompanied by a Russian cruiser and salvage tug, the ministry said.
Russia's military said earlier this month that it had begun scaling down its deployment in Syria under a drawdown ordered by President Vladimir Putin on December 29.
Aircraft from the carrier hit 1,252 "terrorist" targets during a two-month mission, Russia's main commander in Syria, Andrei Kartapolov, was quoted by Russian news agencies as saying.
The Syrian regime and its allies have consistently referred to all of Assad's opponents -- jihadist or otherwise -- as "terrorist" since a conflict erupted in 2011.
The fall of Aleppo in December last year was the regime's biggest victory since the war began with anti-Assad protests.
Was a coal tender unavailable for refueling?
They're trying to avoid Admiral Togo.
Contrary winds?
She has to be in the Gulf of Mexico in a week to enforce Putin's decision on who to make the winner in Super Bowl LI in Houston. L:-)
That's so sad and ridiculous it's probably half true.
I hear Putin wants to overthrow both teams and install the Vanderbilt Commodores as Super Bowl Champs. Because he said the commodore was the very first computer he ever hacked. And he thinks commodore is commissar in English. Oh, and Steven Sagal for NFL Commissar. :idiot2:
Quote from: Sir Slash on January 26, 2017, 10:25:31 AM
Oh, and Steven Sagal for NFL Commissar. :idiot2:
That would actually be an improvement.
Strykers in Syria
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/8085/american-stryker-armored-fighting-vehicles-appear-near-syrian-hotspot
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/04/us/politics/us-troops-syria.html?_r=0
So the US is trying to check Turkish advances and protect Kurds with these Strykers?
Not unless the Kurds sold Trump on the idea of building Trump Resorts: Kurdistan.
Anyways, Trump strikes me more as an Erdogan- kinda guy. Especially now that Erdogan and Putin are BFFs...
Maybe this is plan was put together prior to Trump getting into office?
Isn't it ironic that America is sending Americans to Syria while the Syrians are sending Syrians to America? Wait until the Syrians all get here and find out we're all gone. :o Then we'll get all the oil, and they'll be stuck with the $20 Trillion in debt. :bd: Brilliant!
Quote from: Sir Slash on March 05, 2017, 11:30:31 PM
Isn't it ironic that America is sending Americans to Syria while the Syrians are sending Syrians to America? Wait until the Syrians all get here and find out we're all gone. :o Then we'll get all the oil, and they'll be stuck with the $20 Trillion in debt. :bd: Brilliant!
That is too brilliant to be thought of by either Obama or Trump.
True. But either one would claim credit for it.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 12, 2016, 08:53:04 PM
" prepare boarding parties! "
prepare boarding pikes...
avast! the great white whale!
More US troops being deployed
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/09/world/middleeast/us-troops-syria.html
So you all have troops actually in Syria.... a foreign country that has not asked for the troops to be present... is that not an invasion? :timeout:
All we need is Russians to "accidently" blow up a Stryker... then what happens? #:-)
No one said we were smart about our deployments...
https://www.buzzfeed.com/mikegiglio/inside-the-mad-max-style-tactics-isis-is-using-in-its-last-s?utm_term=.nex09e2ee#.jonv9ZDZZ
All the pundits said Syria is the cauldron of WWIII. Looks like they were right.
Quote from: Gusington on March 09, 2017, 09:13:37 PM
All the pundits said Syria is the cauldron of WWIII. Looks like they were right.
You ain't kidding
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/8649/syria-says-it-will-rain-scud-missiles-on-israel-if-airstrikes-dont-stop
Oy vey. How'd it go for the last regional power that flung Scuds at Israel? And how did Syria's last war with Israel go? God help this stupidity.
Well, you know Israel isn't going to stop hitting Hezbollah in Syria. If Syria is stupid enough to fire Scuds at Israel, the Israelis will respond vigorously. It starts getting real dicey with the Russkis. If they use those S-300s in Tartus against the IAF, then all bets are off.
The Russians' testicular fortitude is the real unknown here.
Quote from: Gusington on March 28, 2017, 12:42:06 PM
The Russians' testicular fortitude is the real unknown here.
You have to wonder what they might have hinted at when they delivered the Scud warning on Syria's behalf.
The Russians may be just crazy enough to stop hinting and start lobbing. Through Syria as a proxy, of course. And what a great market for their defense industries!
The Israeli missile defenses are very sophisticated so I don't think the Syrian Scuds pose that great of a threat. However, the Russian S-300s are could take down Israeli planes operating over Syria. Then the Israelis would go after the S-300 batteries. And presto, shooting war between Israeli and Russia. Everybody loses.
The Russians lose more.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on March 28, 2017, 02:24:14 PM
The Russians lose more.
No doubt. I'd just prefer WW3 not start.
Any games out their simulating Russia vs. Israel? That's a new one for me.
It took me a day to find out, but it looks like the gas used in Idlib was sarin. Does anyone know how it was delivered/released?
Quote from: Gusington on April 05, 2017, 12:35:43 PM
It took me a day to find out, but it looks like the gas used in Idlib was sarin. Does anyone know how it was delivered/released?
Good article. Looks like Syrian regime, but conflicting reports of how intentional use or blew up chemical dump.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2017/0405/Heinous-chemical-attack-kills-dozens-in-Syria-US-blames-Assad-as-aid-workers-scramble-to-help
The Russians and Syrians are saying it was a facility that was hit but I am guessing the truth is unknown right now. I am curious if it was dispersed with artillery, aircraft...something more rudimentary/home made like the attack on the Tokyo subway, etc.
I *think* when the Syrian government did it last time it was artillery, but ISIS used a crude form to disperse the gas. It's certainly messed up regardless of how it was done.
OS IMINT Analysis
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2017/04/05/khan-sheikhoun-chemical-attack-evidence-far/
Not familiar with that particular site, but an airstrike I guess is as plausible as an artillery strike. Seriously messed up regardless.
Bellingcat has done a pretty good job over the years of using the youtube footage of attacks in Syria to geo-locate the action and a combination of news reports and satellite imagery to establish dates/times of what's happened. There's been at least a half-dozen times they've caught both the Russians and the Syrian gov't of outright lying about not hitting hospitals or other civilian targets.
They're also pretty good about giving you the limits of what they can determine based on the footage/imagery. They've noted that the symptoms are consistent with sarin, but that there's no way to determine for sure from the footage available, or from the photos of the impact craters/BDA after the fact.
US Tomahawks are hitting Syrian gov't airfields:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-weighing-military-options-following-chemical-weapons-attack-in-syria/2017/04/06/0c59603a-1ae8-11e7-9887-1a5314b56a08_story.html?utm_term=.921b582c4396
I don't know if this is a good thing or not.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-launches-missiles-syrian-base-after-chemical-weapons-attack-n743636
just make sure you don't hit the Russians.
What about the Iranians?
Quote from: Gusington on April 06, 2017, 08:42:04 PM
What about the Iranians?
fuck 'em; they deserve to be hit
Turks?
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 06, 2017, 08:40:19 PM
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-launches-missiles-syrian-base-after-chemical-weapons-attack-n743636
just make sure you don't hit the Russians.
Don't think the tomahawks can distinguish between Russian Military and Syrian military all using the same equipment and mixed together on the base. Certainly some Russians are going to get whacked so the question is how Putin is going to react. I think Trumps ability to flip flop so rapidly is going to keep,the Russians off guard but will this be the start of a slippery slope to a shooting war with Ivan.
There weren't any Russians at that airbase and we gave the Russkis a heads up before the strike.
Good thing we had those Russian back channels set up so early.
Quote from: mirth on April 06, 2017, 09:11:59 PM
There weren't any Russians at that airbase and we gave the Russkis a heads up before the strike.
Lets hope you are right. What I was reading earlier was that the Russians were pretty deeply embedded with Syrian forces
The Russians earlier today publicly said to Trump directly, not in so many words: "So what are you going to do about it?"
Now we and the Russians have the answer.
Tomorrow, and probably the day after, will provide the answer.
If I was on those US Navy ships my sphincter would be puckered pretty tight right now since they are the juiciest target if the Russians decide to retaliate
Con
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/17798998_10155172259592726_9208026254324184030_n.png.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=960f968812c8eb3776f8222b8daab9e7&oe=598B9D5A)
Yup. Obviously the most important thing to consider right now is a 5 year old tweet.
The President who says he never tells his enemies what he is going to do, told the Russians what he was going to do so they wouldn't hit by our missiles. I hope he made them promise not to tell the Syrians so they could get out of the way too. War is too complicated for me to figure-out today. :idiot2:
Quote from: Con on April 06, 2017, 09:31:42 PM
Quote from: mirth on April 06, 2017, 09:11:59 PM
There weren't any Russians at that airbase and we gave the Russkis a heads up before the strike.
Lets hope you are right. What I was reading earlier was that the Russians were pretty deeply embedded with Syrian forces
CNN Now reporting Russians were at the base - and I am guessing our heads up was probably those loud noisy booms and red hot shrapnel is our tomahawks - start ducking
QuoteRussians were present at the base the US struck Thursday night, a US defense official said, though the role of those Russians was not immediately known.
Tillerson confirmed that the US military contacted their Russian counterparts about the attack ahead of time, in accordance with deconfliction policies between the US and Russia over military activities in Syria.
Quote from: Staggerwing on April 06, 2017, 09:41:02 PM
Tomorrow, and probably the day after, will provide the answer.
as a cold war kid the phrase "the day after" is sketchy
the real interesting fact:
As far as we (the public) know the Russian S400 bolstered air defense system didn't engaged the cruise missile wave
- so either Ivan couldn't detect a possible stealthy sub variant in use
or
- they didn't want to give away response time and saturation limits
or
- they just didn't want to waste billions of Rubles on a secondary airbase, where doing harm to Russian soldiers and Russian high grade equipment was avoided as good as possible for good measure
(which is atm a good thing, nobody wants a placeholder war between Sunni (Saudi Arabia) and Shiite (Iran) turn into a global conflict)
It also was a demonstration of power by the US side that the air defense network can be saturated .... i duno how many launchers the Russians have operational in Syria, but i guess not enuf.
^^^
Or the US called ahead and said "duck"
Quote from: Con on April 06, 2017, 10:59:07 PM
Quote from: Con on April 06, 2017, 09:31:42 PM
Quote from: mirth on April 06, 2017, 09:11:59 PM
There weren't any Russians at that airbase and we gave the Russkis a heads up before the strike.
Lets hope you are right. What I was reading earlier was that the Russians were pretty deeply embedded with Syrian forces
CNN Now reporting Russians were at the base - and I am guessing our heads up was probably those loud noisy booms and red hot shrapnel is our tomahawks - start ducking
QuoteRussians were present at the base the US struck Thursday night, a US defense official said, though the role of those Russians was not immediately known.
That changed from what was initially reported. What a CF.
CNN reports 6 dead at the Syrian air base. I am guessing none were Russian since the Russians are not freaking out as they would if they took losses.
6?
I'm not a bloodthirsty warmonger or anything, but it took us 10 tomahawks to kill each dude? Clearly we need to improve our aim
Meanwhile, Kim Jong-un be like:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2F200.gif&hash=f51e92cca3da150fe5255f88515b73e13b400a3c)
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 07, 2017, 08:22:12 AM
6?
I'm not a bloodthirsty warmonger or anything, but it took us 10 tomahawks to kill each dude? Clearly we need to improve our aim
You can be sure those six are very dead.
Quote from: mirth on April 07, 2017, 08:34:39 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 07, 2017, 08:22:12 AM
6?
I'm not a bloodthirsty warmonger or anything, but it took us 10 tomahawks to kill each dude? Clearly we need to improve our aim
You can be sure those six are very dead.
made me think of this
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweknowmemes.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2Ffuck-these-6-fish-in-particular.jpg&hash=7ef4e7f03548aa582d162f625f72ab6d180a6f7b)
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 07, 2017, 08:22:12 AM
6?
I'm not a bloodthirsty warmonger or anything, but it took us 10 tomahawks to kill each dude? Clearly we need to improve our aim
A report with some video of the airbase (a belgian reporter could visit the airbase last year and took these images, but without permission) :
http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/buitenland/2.49345?eid=1.2944465 (sorry but it is in dutch)
They claim the airbase doesn't have a central building but many smaller buildings, explaining the need for a large number of missiles.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on April 07, 2017, 01:20:51 AM
Quote from: Staggerwing on April 06, 2017, 09:41:02 PM
Tomorrow, and probably the day after, will provide the answer.
as a cold war kid the phrase "the day after" is sketchy
You know that's right.....
The impression given this morning was that the Hawks were destroyer-launched, although I was thinking of subs, too.
The low casualty count suggests eyes on the ground giving real-time updates to strike coordinates, intended to smack low-pop areas. But I've also heard a major target were the runways themselves. Not many people out there. Although unless those Toms had Durandal capability I don't know how much good cratering the runways would do.
Quote from: JasonPratt on April 07, 2017, 10:28:22 AM
The impression given this morning was that the Hawks were destroyer-launched, although I was thinking of subs, too.
The low casualty count suggests eyes on the ground giving real-time updates to strike coordinates, intended to smack low-pop areas. But I've also heard a major target were the runways themselves. Not many people out there. Although unless those Toms had Durandal capability I don't know how much good cratering the runways would do.
The important thing here was the bitchslap itself, not the damage done. It was a grave warning.
Unless the craters spelled out "DON'T GAS CIVVIES" in a local dialect, I suspect the regime will consider it ineptitude: they shot 60 missiles to kill 6 people, bwahahahaha.
Not noticing that the missiles cratered all their runways in straight lines like a sewing machine.
Quote from: bbmike on April 07, 2017, 08:25:41 AM
Meanwhile, Kim Jong-un be like:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2F200.gif&hash=f51e92cca3da150fe5255f88515b73e13b400a3c)
We could put one through your window
any dang time we chose, Jong.
Tillerson didn't pull any punches:
Quote"Clearly, Russia has failed in its responsibility to deliver on that commitment from 2013," Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson said on Thursday night. "So either Russia has been complicit or Russia has been simply incompetent in its ability to deliver on its end of that agreement."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/world/middleeast/missile-strike-syria-russia.html
Quote from: JasonPratt on April 07, 2017, 10:42:44 AM
Unless the craters spelled out "DON'T GAS CIVVIES" in a local dialect, I suspect the regime will consider it ineptitude: they shot 60 missiles to kill 6 people, bwahahahaha.
Not noticing that the missiles cratered all their runways in straight lines like a sewing machine.
Cratered runways, blew up a chunk of the Syrian Air Force, took out a radar station
QuoteThe American missiles destroyed a warehouse of material and technical property, a training building, a canteen, six MIG-23 aircraft in repair hangars and a radar station, according to the Russian military. A Russian television reporter, Evgeny Poddubny, who was at the air base, said nine planes had been destroyed.
Quote from: mirth on April 07, 2017, 10:57:06 AM
Tillerson didn't pull any punches:
Quote"Clearly, Russia has failed in its responsibility to deliver on that commitment from 2013," Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson said on Thursday night. "So either Russia has been complicit or Russia has been simply incompetent in its ability to deliver on its end of that agreement."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/world/middleeast/missile-strike-syria-russia.html
that might be the harsher thing Tillerson ever said in his life
Quote from: mirth on April 07, 2017, 10:59:56 AM
Cratered runways, blew up a chunk of the Syrian Air Force, took out a radar station
QuoteThe American missiles destroyed a warehouse of material and technical property, a training building, a canteen, six MIG-23 aircraft in repair hangars and a radar station, according to the Russian military. A Russian television reporter, Evgeny Poddubny, who was at the air base, said nine planes had been destroyed.
Well, the regime
shouldn't consider that ineptitude. To quote Brant upthread:
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 07, 2017, 08:54:04 AM(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweknowmemes.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2Ffuck-these-6-fish-in-particular.jpg&hash=7ef4e7f03548aa582d162f625f72ab6d180a6f7b)
On the other hand, I bet medical supplies are being raced to the site on donkey carts even as we speak, to be thrown into the craters. ::) :-"
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 07, 2017, 08:54:04 AM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweknowmemes.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2Ffuck-these-6-fish-in-particular.jpg&hash=7ef4e7f03548aa582d162f625f72ab6d180a6f7b)
:2funny:
Vlad has nullified military agreement with the US.
QuoteRussia suspends the Memorandum of Understanding on Prevention of Flight Safety Incidents in the course of operations in Syria signed with the US.
https://archive.fo/KR674
Quote from: Atilla60 on April 07, 2017, 04:17:18 PM
Vlad has nullified military agreement with the US.
QuoteRussia suspends the Memorandum of Understanding on Prevention of Flight Safety Incidents in the course of operations in Syria signed with the US.
https://archive.fo/KR674
So they are saying what? Screw the safety precautions cuz we're mad? BTW where is the Russian POS carrier hanging out these days... still close to Syria?
Quote from: Windigo on April 07, 2017, 04:20:31 PM
Quote from: Atilla60 on April 07, 2017, 04:17:18 PM
Vlad has nullified military agreement with the US.
QuoteRussia suspends the Memorandum of Understanding on Prevention of Flight Safety Incidents in the course of operations in Syria signed with the US.
https://archive.fo/KR674
So they are saying what? Screw the safety precautions cuz we're mad? BTW where is the Russian POS carrier hanging out these days... still close to Syria?
I thought it went back home.
Quote from: Windigo on April 07, 2017, 04:20:31 PM
Quote from: Atilla60 on April 07, 2017, 04:17:18 PM
Vlad has nullified military agreement with the US.
QuoteRussia suspends the Memorandum of Understanding on Prevention of Flight Safety Incidents in the course of operations in Syria signed with the US.
https://archive.fo/KR674
So they are saying what? Screw the safety precautions cuz we're mad?
No, they are saying that from now on US-led coalition planes in Syrian airspace can be targeted by pro-Assad units.
Okay, serious question: how is this action not effectively an act of war on the Assad regime?
I'm asking in terms of the options for Assad in politically responding. "The US has just declared war on us, except they haven't declared it. Are they going to make their act against us an official declaration of war, or try to pretend this isn't an act of war, or what?"
Quote from: JasonPratt on April 07, 2017, 04:55:13 PM
Okay, serious question: how is this action not effectively an act of war on the Assad regime?
I'm asking in terms of the options for Assad in politically responding. "The US has just declared war on us, except they haven't declared it. Are they going to make their act against us an official declaration of war, or try to pretend this isn't an act of war, or what?"
They'll give it an impressive name like Humanitarian Driven Kinetic Policing Response
It is an act of war on the Assad regime.
Anyway, from CNN:
"The US military official said the Pentagon was examining specifically whether a Russian warplane had bombed a hospital in Khan Sheikhoun five hours after the initial chemical attack, with the aim of destroying evidence."
For Chrissakes Russia, do you have to be the a-hole every minute of every day? You can take a break every now and then.
The Russians are impotent..Bluster is all they really have under the circumstances.
What about their air defenses there?
They exist at our pleasure. The Russians can't seriously play with us and they know it.
They seem to relish in the role of our foil, especially in the Mideast. And I ain't talkin' about that sweet relish on a hamburger, either.
I'm cool with letting them have Syria to dick around in. I'm just saying they can't go toe-to-toe with us.
They don't need to. They're f*cking up everything outside of a direct conflict.
Whenever I see the faces of the kids that were gassed I see my own kids' faces. Breaks my heart.
I am in no way defending the Russians or their actions, but...
Right now, they are the only ones with a realistic strategy for ending the civil war in Syria (and along with it, the refugee crisis): back Assad to the hilt, since he's the only one of the factions marginally strong enough to win with assistance. It's brutal, inhumane, but it's also the only realistic way to end this conflict any time soon.
My guess is that they are almost as pissed at him about this gas attack as we are. Think about it from their perspective: Assad is winning, with their help. They won the Siege of Aleppo, they've got the rebels on the run and fighting each other everywhere, and then Assad's goons go and do this? Bring the Americans in against Assad with a vengeance? I'm not surprised they're trying to cover up the evidence (not justifying it all all, but no surprised either). They were on the verge of wrapping this thing up in their favor.
How sure are we that Assad is actually still calling the shots? He could just be a figurehead by now, useful for focusing all the world's ire but disposable in the end, while some shadowy Iranian-backed Alawite players are moving the chess pieces. Maybe their Iranian benefactors have something to gain by making Russia look complicit in Assad's war crimes, linking the two and leaving Iran as the last man standing when Assad is forced from power..
Well, that does bring up the question of whether Assad's forces really did the gassing? I mean, is he taking credit for it? Other than being a despotic murderer, what was his goal here?
There's a lot of speculation that Assad and/or the Russians did not do it. To what end...who knows.
CNN reporting this morning that a Russian missle armed frigate is moving in to the Mediterranean as a show of force. CNN also reporting that Russian planes may have been destroyed in the latest bombardment.
Quote from: Gusington on April 08, 2017, 11:47:01 AMCNN also reporting that Russian planes may have been destroyed in the latest bombardment.
Latest bombardment? You mean the new air attack back at the town hit by Sarin?
No, our (US) missile attack. Some Russian equipment and planes may have also been destroyed. Not sure if they were targeted directly.
Quote from: Gusington on April 08, 2017, 11:47:01 AM
There's a lot of speculation that Assad and/or the Russians did not do it. To what end...who knows.
Speculation by who? RT? The same people that don't think the Russians shot down MH17?
Quote from: Gusington on April 08, 2017, 11:47:01 AM
CNN reporting this morning that a Russian missle armed frigate is moving in to the Mediterranean as a show of force. CNN also reporting that Russian planes may have been destroyed in the latest bombardment.
That Russian frigate was on maneuvers w/ the Turks right before this happened and was already planned to head into the Med. Whether or not the exact sked/route was changed is unknown, but it was already in the area.
Speculation from talking heads on CNN and online. When you stop to think about it, it kind of makes sense too. Assad and the Russians pretty much had the war going their way. The White House even begrudingly accepted that Assad would remain the Syrian leader, publicly. So then the Syrians/Russiana launch a chemical attack? Makes no sense.
The chem attack did occur while Syrian or Russian aircraft were bombing the town and considering that the nerve agents usually require mixing just before using it would be quite coincidental if someone else knew exactly where to pre-place a stockpile of just-mixed Sarin or the like.
If the gas attack wasn't planned by elements within the Assad gov't for their own reasons then the next likely reason is that some lower echelon commander ordered it because he was under extreme pressure to shore up his area of responsibility and decided to use any means available to preserve his own neck.
Quote from: Gusington on April 08, 2017, 01:14:26 PM
Speculation from talking heads on CNN and online. When you stop to think about it, it kind of makes sense too. Assad and the Russians pretty much had the war going their way. The White House even begrudingly accepted that Assad would remain the Syrian leader, publicly. So then the Syrians/Russiana launch a chemical attack? Makes no sense.
Or you think you can get away with it now,
because the US stated Syria should decide the fate of Syria.
Maybe he wanted to see how far he could go after that White House statement (this is how our local news is reporting on it) and maybe he didn't expect a 180° turn in one week by the US.
^I can buy that, I suppose. Maybe Assad and the Russians are not that bright after all or thought they could walk all over Trump.
Quote from: Pete Dero on April 08, 2017, 03:16:03 PM
Quote from: Gusington on April 08, 2017, 01:14:26 PM
Speculation from talking heads on CNN and online. When you stop to think about it, it kind of makes sense too. Assad and the Russians pretty much had the war going their way. The White House even begrudingly accepted that Assad would remain the Syrian leader, publicly. So then the Syrians/Russiana launch a chemical attack? Makes no sense.
Or you think you can get away with it now, because the US stated Syria should decide the fate of Syria.
Maybe he wanted to see how far he could go after that White House statement (this is how our local news is reporting on it) and maybe he didn't expect a 180° turn in one week by the US.
I'm wondering if the back channel discussions that went with the public statement was an agreement that Syria/Russia wouldn't use chemical weapons. I wonder also if Russia pushed to use the chemical weapons as a test of Trump to see how much they could push him. If he hadn't done anything except some strongly worded press release, they may think they can get away with whatever they want else where. Now, they may have to rethink any reneging on agreements.
Trump has now sent a letter to congress explaining his actions.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-sends-congress-letter-explaining-syria-strike/ar-BBzzAO4?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp
QuotePresident Trump on Saturday delivered his justification to Congress for ordering a missile strike on Syria this week, saying in a letter to congressional leaders that the U.S. was prepared to take further military action if necessary.
"I acted in the vital national security and foreign policy interests of the United States, pursuant to my constitutional authority to conduct foreign relations and as Commander in Chief and Chief Executive," Trump wrote.
The letter was addressed to House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) and Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), the Senate president pro tempore.
"The United States will take additional action, as necessary and appropriate, to further its important national interests," Trump wrote.
Under the War Powers Resolution, the president is required to submit an explanation for the use of force within 48 hours after military action is taken. The deadline for Trump to do so would be Saturday night.
Trump's letter echoed his comments delivered roughly an hour after the strikes on Thursday night, when he characterized the strikes as in the "vital national security interest" of the U.S.
"It is in this vital national security interest of the United States to prevent and deter the spread and use of deadly chemical weapons," Trump said at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, where he was hosting Chinese President Xi Jinping.
I wouldn't believe CNN if they said the sun will rise tomorrow in the east.
http://ig.ft.com/sites/2015/isis-oil/
http://www.duffelblog.com/2017/04/syria-issues-travel-ban-u-s-missiles/
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 10, 2017, 07:58:16 AM
http://www.duffelblog.com/2017/04/syria-issues-travel-ban-u-s-missiles/ (http://www.duffelblog.com/2017/04/syria-issues-travel-ban-u-s-missiles/)
"This impacts the most vulnerable group in America today: the Navy's surface fleet," said Neill O'Connor, a spokesman for Amnesty International. "All these poor sailors want to do is feel like they're actually part of a war and tell their sweethearts how much danger they're in before going back to the galley for mid-rats."
:DD
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/9089/americas-tomahawk-missile-attack-on-syrias-shayrat-air-base-was-a-sham
Quoten effect, by sending throngs of TLAMs against hardened aircraft shelters and the like, commanders are knowingly putting the missiles to work in a symbolic gesture, with limited expected results.
We've been thinking the same thing, of course: it's a symbolic reprisal, meant to state that we could do more damage if we wanted to, so cut out doing X.
But is it even serving that function? I opined way back at the start when we first heard news about the strike, that the locals would see it as an impotent gesture. The floundering political fallout looks like it could be even worse.
Trump just fed ISIS a MOAB (http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/politics/afghanistan-isis-moab-bomb/index.html). O0 Apparently this was the first time the MOAB was used on the battlefield.
...oops. Sorry target was in Afghanistan, not Syria :-[
There's ISIS guys in Afghanistan? Isn't the second "IS" for Iraq & Syria"?
In Afghanistan... ???
Haven't lots (many, some?) radical Islamic terrorist cells pledged allegiance to ISIS? So "ISIS" can be spread pretty wide.
I thought Afghanistan was mostly Taliban turf.. and they don't like ISIS at all.
ISIS-K is the Afghanistan branch.
http://www.centcom.mil/MEDIA/PRESS-RELEASES/Press-Release-View/Article/1151115/us-forces-targets-destroys-isis-k-stronghold/
The Taliban isn't exactly a monolithic corporate structure. Many of it's more outspoken pledges have decided that they need to kick more ass so they are defecting over to IS-Hole.
The cost of that single bomb.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/heres-how-much-the-mother-of-all-bombs-costs/ar-BBzOz7P?li=AA4Zpp&ocid=spartanntp
QuoteThe United States Defense Department likes to show off. After proving it can move with the quick strike capability of a cobra as it did when it launched 59 tomahawk missiles at a Syrian airfield, the Pentagon on Thursday decided to up the ante by showing its muscle.
They dropped the largest non-nuclear bomb against ISIS in the Nangarhar Province in Afghanistan. The GBU-43B known as the Massive Ordnance Air Blast (MOAB) or the Mother of All Bombs, is a 20,000-pound monster. It took $314 million to develop and has a unit cost of $16 million.
Drop MOAB, or repair Flint, MI's water system..... 3 times
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 13, 2017, 09:39:34 PM
Drop MOAB, or repair Flint, MI's water system..... 3 times
Sure. Cause those things EQ out.
Quote from: mirth on April 13, 2017, 09:42:45 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 13, 2017, 09:39:34 PM
Drop MOAB, or repair Flint, MI's water system..... 3 times
Sure. Cause those things EQ out.
just providing a cost comparison - I know the dollars are from totally different places.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 13, 2017, 09:39:34 PM
Drop MOAB, or repair Flint, MI's water system..... 3 times
Get a haircut, hippie.
Quote from: Toonces on April 14, 2017, 07:59:47 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 13, 2017, 09:39:34 PM
Drop MOAB, or repair Flint, MI's water system..... 3 times
Get a haircut, hippie.
funny you should mention that... I just did back on Sunday. I needed it, too; my bangs were down to my chin, and no I'm not exaggerating.
I think I lost 4 pounds, just in hair.
Quote from: mirth on April 14, 2017, 08:01:12 AMSays Spicoli
zing
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/9491/assad-moves-the-bulk-of-his-air-power-to-russias-air-base-in-syria
It's hard to hear what Assad says when his lips are planted so securely between Putin's butt-cheeks. L:-)
This s sorta like when Saddam Hussein flew most of the Iraqi Air Force to his good buddies in...Iran.
I don't think Saddam actually meant for that. He and Iran were not exactly BFFs.
The call was probably made in the cockpit right after take-off, Belenko-style
This is an earlier piece written prior to the US cruise missile strikes.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/9039/striking-assad-in-retaliation-for-gas-attack-is-a-horrible-idea?iid=sr-link3
Story floating around the BBC that a Russian Marine major has been killed in an attack on his garrison in Syria.
Interesting
http://www.businessinsider.com/f-35-combat-mission-syria-2017-4
Russian intelligence ship was sunk after hitting a freighter. That'll set Putin back a few Rubles.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-naval-intelligence-ship-sinks-off-turkeys-black-sea-coast/ar-BBArkrR?ocid=spartanntp
Quote from: OJsDad on April 27, 2017, 05:21:07 PM
Russian intelligence ship was sunk after hitting a freighter. That'll set Putin back a few Rubles.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-naval-intelligence-ship-sinks-off-turkeys-black-sea-coast/ar-BBArkrR?ocid=spartanntp
Nah, that ship was bought during the Stalin era. ;D
Ugh I don't know about this one:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/30/middleeast/turkey-syria-us-troops-patrol/index.html
Quote from: Gusington on April 30, 2017, 02:36:45 PM
Ugh I don't know about this one:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/30/middleeast/turkey-syria-us-troops-patrol/index.html
From the article:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.cdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F170410084615-gfx-syria-free-for-all-card-image-april-2017-exlarge-169.jpg&hash=afd9e24ff504ced43aead979ababee4dc880e276)
Almost migraine-inducing
It's an effing mess.
Maybe it's time to get out of there and let the Arabs clean up their own s**t.
And if Putin wants to go deeper into this hellhole, I'll say let him.
Yeah I looked over that map after I posted...I notice Israel is not on there even though they have been launching air sorties in Syrian territory too.
Quote from: Gusington on April 30, 2017, 06:06:06 PM
Yeah I looked over that map after I posted...I notice Israel is not on there even though they have been launching air sorties in Syrian territory too.
They've also been providing medical aide to civilians coming across into their defenses in the Golan Heights.
US vs Turkey?
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/12/the-united-states-and-turkey-are-on-a-collision-course-in-syria-trump/
Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 13, 2017, 09:16:00 AM
US vs Turkey?
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/12/the-united-states-and-turkey-are-on-a-collision-course-in-syria-trump/
The WSJ reported this week that US special forces have been/are being embedded in the Kurdish forces in Syria. If the Turks keep attacking/bombing the Kurds in Syria, it is only a matter of time before the Turks kill some US Special Forces. Given the very long hatred between the Kurds and the Turks, I find it hard to see how a deal can be brokered by the US on this issue. It is hard to see a positive outcome here unless the Turks wish to conquer a buffer zone on their Southern Border. Then it is the Turks hornet nest.
There is a huge desire to do something in Syria because ISIS, Assad, etc.... are such slime. But I'm not seeing how this is in the US strategic interest to intervene in a swamp that does not close major logistics routes for the rest of the world. I always feel queasy when I cannot define "winning" when using military force.
Quote from: airboy on May 13, 2017, 10:40:07 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 13, 2017, 09:16:00 AM
US vs Turkey?
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/12/the-united-states-and-turkey-are-on-a-collision-course-in-syria-trump/
The WSJ reported this week that US special forces have been/are being embedded in the Kurdish forces in Syria.
US forces have been operating with the YPG for a while now, even adding YPG patches to their US uniforms. Images of those patches on US soldiers caused a big shitstorm in the Turkish press last year.
^I remember that. Very, very sensitive situation.
Well good thing we have such a well read and non impulsive president who has promised to clean up this mess. What could go wrong :P
:buck2:
I can't look either. It's like being on the Titanic in broad daylight headed towards a iceberg twice as big with no captain.
More like a captain who is pulling off a vodka bottle cackling madly and declaring icebergs are fake news
^OK, that.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/world/middleeast/syria-assad-prison-crematory.html
We shot down a Syrian Su-22 over the weekend
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/11635/usn-fa-18e-super-hornet-shoots-down-a-syrian-su-22-fitter-attack-jet
Yep, and now the Russians are threatening us.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-shoots-syrian-fighter-jet-syria/story?id=48119895 (http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-shoots-syrian-fighter-jet-syria/story?id=48119895)
Fun....not
It wasn't a 'shoot-down'. It was a 'Man-Made Alternative Landing'. Have we abandoned Obama-Speak so soon? :nerd:
I don't expect much from Trump but the one thing I hoped for was not to get us directly involved in another civil war. I hope this incident doesn't lead to it.
Quote from: Marty Ward on June 19, 2017, 09:17:18 AM
I don't expect much from Trump but the one thing I hoped for was not to get us directly involved in another civil war. I hope this incident doesn't lead to it.
Or WWIII
We're already in WWIII.
...and the clash of cultures
Quote from: Gusington on June 19, 2017, 09:32:39 AM
We're already in WWIII.
Not quite but we sure do seem to be getting closer.
The Wife had a professor back in the mid 1990s who insisted that the next world war would be fought between religions instead of political ideologies. Looks like he is more than a little correct.
Not sure if this link will go through or not: http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/news/story/0002/20170711/KBN19W1AW_3
QuoteThe Syrian Observatory for Human Rights told Reuters on Tuesday that it had "confirmed information" that Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has been killed.
Russia's Defence Ministry said in June that it might have killed Baghdadi when one of its air strikes hit a gathering of Islamic State commanders on the outskirts of the Syrian city of Raqqa, but Washington said it could not corroborate the death and Western and Iraqi officials have been skeptical.
Reuters could not independently verify Baghdadi's death.
"(We have) confirmed information from leaders, including one of the first rank, in the Islamic State in the eastern countryside of Deir al-Zor," the director of the British-based war monitoring group Rami Abdulrahman told Reuters.
I just called the 'Hell Hotline' and he's there and adjusting well. He and the other ISIS boys have started a soccer team while they're waiting on their 72 virgins each to show-up. The "Jihadi Hotties" haven't won a game yet but hey, it's hell. Nobody EVER wins there. :DD
https://twitter.com/chadgarland/status/884738550629097473
I know its Iraq - but here are photos after Mosul was taken. ISIS are scum.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/11/world/middleeast/what-i-saw-in-mosul-iraq-isis.html
TQILA
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/queer-insurrection-isis-lgbt-unit-gay-islamic-state-fight-forces-coalition-syria-middle-east-a7858651.html
Real interesting story about jury-rigged drones by ISIS, the various Air Forces in Syria (Syrian, US, Israel, Russia, Turkey) and how easy it would be for all of this to explode in a tragic accident. Although the US military integration is the background of the article, the air situation discussion is scary.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/opinion/charlottesville-isis-us-syria.html?ref=opinion
that's a good column
https://twitter.com/theeconomist/status/907563285926629376
From a morale perspective, what's even more damaging for them is that fellow Muslims largely did this. They can't boast about kicking the West into an apocalyptic war that they feel just sure that they'll win; they're getting progressively bushhogged with Western support, sure, but by Iraqi boots on the ground.
We pulled out too soon, but thank God (and everyone else involved) our support strategy eventually worked. After some initial disasters.
https://twitter.com/TheAviationist/status/917730465615933441
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/15176/israel-strikes-back-fighters-destroy-syrian-sam-site-that-fired-on-recon-plane
the French aren't messing around
https://www.thelocal.fr/20171018/wanted-dead-not-alive-frances-approach-to-is-jihadists
That makes things simpler for everyone.
And gives all us what we want: us-no jihadists, them- 42 Virgins in Heaven. Win-Win I say. :bd: Just out of curiosity, are there that many virgins in Heaven to give everybody 42? That seems an order hard to fill, but whatever.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 19, 2017, 09:55:26 AMare there that many virgins in Heaven to give everybody 42?
Not anymore
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.midlifecrisishawaii.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2Fhugh-hefner.jpg&hash=6a3a1f6cfb308e1c4683aae00381a27fa10baff9)
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 19, 2017, 10:08:32 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 19, 2017, 09:55:26 AMare there that many virgins in Heaven to give everybody 42?
Not anymore
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.midlifecrisishawaii.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2Fhugh-hefner.jpg&hash=6a3a1f6cfb308e1c4683aae00381a27fa10baff9)
ha!
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 19, 2017, 10:08:32 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 19, 2017, 09:55:26 AMare there that many virgins in Heaven to give everybody 42?
Not anymore
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.midlifecrisishawaii.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2Fhugh-hefner.jpg&hash=6a3a1f6cfb308e1c4683aae00381a27fa10baff9)
well done old boy.... well done :notworthy:
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/17350/report-says-multiple-aircraft-at-russias-air-base-in-syria-destroyed-in-attack
In Syria, planes no drop bombs on you. You drop bombs on planes. ;D
Quote from: mirth on January 03, 2018, 07:19:21 PM
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/17350/report-says-multiple-aircraft-at-russias-air-base-in-syria-destroyed-in-attack
Sounds like somebody forgot the lessons of Pearl harbor.
Don't awaken Godzilla and piss him completely off?
First one is:
"Don't park your aircraft right next to each other if someone might want to blow up as many of them as he can."
Quote from: Staggerwing on January 04, 2018, 04:24:43 PM
First one is:
"Don't park your aircraft right next to each other if someone might want to blow up as many of them as he can."
yep
But... everybody LOVES the Russians. Don't they? ???
You're thinking of Raymond.
Could be. But even that guy would know better than to put his planes so close together. :coolsmiley:
Quote from: Sir Slash on January 05, 2018, 11:01:49 AM
Could be. But even that guy would know better than to put his planes so close together. :coolsmiley:
Nah. That's a classic Ray move. Deborah would be pissed, but his mother would make excuses for him and blame it all on Robert.
;D And the Father would watch TV.
~fin~
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/17433/russias-air-base-in-syria-seems-to-be-under-regular-attack-now
^I feel terrible.
Quote from: Gusington on January 07, 2018, 12:45:51 PM
^I feel terrible.
and quite rightly so... russkies have mothers too
So did Bashar al-Assad.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagesvc.timeincapp.com%2Fv3%2Ffoundry%2Fimage%2F%3Fq%3D60%26amp%3Burl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fs3.amazonaws.com%252Fthe-drive-staging%252Fmessage-editor%25252F1515280945185-hhhd131.jpg&hash=7a2429df4f975d8643992e504fd99133b933e90d)
That guy on the right looks a bit lumpy for an SU-24 fighter-bomber pilot.
^Definitely.
Is that Gilbert Gottfried in front? Damn. His career's gone down hill. SON-OF-A-........
Quote from: Sir Slash on January 07, 2018, 11:59:15 PM
Is that Gilbert Gottfried in front? Damn. His career's gone down hill.
He must live on Everest because I didn't think his career had any more down to go.
In Soviet Syria you make Gilbert Gottfried laugh!
Maybe a brother. Boris Gottfried. Probably the guy in charge of sweeping-up the wreakage of the too-close planes.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/17493/russia-says-january-5th-attack-on-its-syrian-air-base-was-by-a-swarm-of-drones
There's going to be drone dogfights in the future...
That gave me a smile ... thanks mirth.
O0
Saw something earlier today, where Syria was claiming Israel was hitting an airfield near Damascus.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/17527/russia-is-trying-to-link-the-drone-swarm-attack-in-syria-to-a-us-p-8-patrol-plane
You have to love the shamelessness of Russian propaganda
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/17595/russia-offers-new-details-about-syrian-mass-drone-attack-now-implies-ukrainian-connection
If Lada built a drone...
Quote from: Windigo on January 11, 2018, 03:48:54 PM
If Lada built a drone...
you could track it by the persistent exhaust cloud.
Nah, that would be VW, surely?
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/12/russia-says-it-eliminated-rebels-behind-swarm-drone-attack-in-syria.html
you just know those P-8 make Toonces wet.
The P-8 Feline Loin Moistener
The Turks crossed the Syrian border and attacked the Kurdish force the US armed and trained.
Not Good!
Erdogan said that "Whenever the business is done, we know when to pull back. We neither intend to stay there nor ask anyone for permission" (to go in or leave Syria).
Turkish troops are fighting around the town of Afrin and has now started attacking Azaz.
Tillerson is: "calling for restraint on both sides" "absolute minimum of casualties" and to "be precise and try to limit operations." Seems like the US has decided this is a fait accompli and is trying to talk the Turks into lower levels of incursions.
I heard on the news that the Turks at least notified us that they were going to go after the Kurds before the began their Op. So maybe it's something of a for-show-only Op. Hoping.
Quote from: Sir Slash on January 24, 2018, 10:46:50 AM
I heard on the news that the Turks at least notified us that they were going to go after the Kurds before the began their Op. So maybe it's something of a for-show-only Op. Hoping.
The Turks were probably more worried about fallout from accidentally killing YPK-embedded US soldiers than they were about tipping off the Kurds that they were coming.
I'm sure that's true.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey/turkey-says-u-s-has-promised-to-stop-arming-ypg-warns-washington-on-manbij-idUSKBN1FG0P4?il=0
Turkey's foreign minister said the United States needed to follow up its promise with concrete action, including the immediate withdrawal of its troops from the vicinity of Manbij.
"The United States needs to break its link with (the) terrorist organization and make them drop their weapons completely. They need to collect the weapons they gave, they need to withdraw from Manbij immediately," Mevlut Cavusoglu told reporters on Saturday.
Just wondering... did that F-16block50/52 upgrade we sold the Turkish Air Force include the remote disable feature?
http://www.newsweek.com/cnn-turk-reports-american-sniper-bradley-cooper-killed-syria-us-military-792775
I'm starting to smell the possibility of an undeclared but defacto partial alignment of purpose between the YPG and Assad. Stranger things have happened before.
They maybe on to something over there. Things are so confused that you need a Flow Chart to follow who you're supposed to be fighting for and against and by the time you know who to kill, you can't because everybody's switched sides again. So... Peace. :clap:
Quote from: Sir Slash on January 27, 2018, 11:32:21 PM
They maybe on to something over there. Things are so confused that you need a Flow Chart to follow who you're supposed to be fighting for and against and by the time you know who to kill, you can't because everybody's switched sides again. So... Peace. :clap:
This is why I think the neo-cons who believe that US military power can solve everything have not studied history. No vital US interests, very confusing factions, stay away from direct combat.
*something* *something* *something* land war in Asia...
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18216/russian-su-25-frogfoot-attack-jet-shot-down-in-syria
That aught to calm things down over there...
I hope the pilot is ok and safe. I also hope that the MANPAD used was non-US made so the Russians don't go apeshit.
Quote from: Staggerwing on January 28, 2018, 02:07:36 PM
*something* *something* *something* land war in Asia...
I hope the pilot is ok and safe. I also hope that the MANPAD used was non-US made so the Russians don't go apeshit.
[/quote]
Looks like the pilot was killed on the ground.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/02/03/al-qaeda-linked-militants-shoot-down-russian-fighter-jet-over-syria-kill-pilot.html
Can't imagine what that pilot had to go through.
Is it wrong that I dont give a shit because hes russian?
Yes.
Dont care.
Didn't think you did. But you asked.
Turks are again warning the US to stay away.
https://twitter.com/TheAviationist/status/962325385345159168
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/10/world/middleeast/israel-iran-syria.html
A Reuters story;
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-launches-heavy-syria-strikes-after-f-16-crashes/ar-BBIWAi2?ocid=spartanntp
QuoteIsrael launches heavy Syria strikes after F-16 crashes
JERUSALEM/BEIRUT, Feb 10 (Reuters) - Israel launched heavy air strikes in Syria on Saturday, saying it hit air defenses and Iranian targets, and the Syrian army claimed to have brought down an Israeli F-16 that crashed in northern Israel in a major escalation of tension.
The Israeli military said early assessments indicated the jet had been shot down by Syrian fire, but this was still unconfirmed.
It marked the most serious confrontation yet in Syria between Israel and Iranian and Iran-backed forces that have established a major foothold in the country while fighting in support of President Bashar al-Assad in the civil war.
Israel said the F-16 crashed during a mission to strike Iranian drone installations in Syria. It said it sent its jets into Syria after shooting down an Iranian drone over Israeli territory earlier on Saturday.
The military alliance fighting in support of Assad denied any of its drones had entered Israeli air space. In a statement, it said Israel had targeted an air base in the Homs desert that is being used to fly drones in missions against Islamic State.
Such "terrorist action" by Israel would be met with a "severe and serious response," it said.
The Israeli military spokesman said Israel did not seek escalation in the region, calling its action a "defensive effort triggered by an Iranian act of aggression."
Iran's expanding clout during Syria's nearly seven-year-long war, including deployments of Iran-backed forces near the Golan frontier, has raised alarm in Israel, which has said it would act against any threat from its regional arch-enemy Tehran.
Iranian and Iran-backed Shi'ite forces, including Lebanon's Hezbollah, have deployed widely in support of Assad. Iran's military chief warned Israel last October against breaching Syrian airspace and territory.
Israel's air force has targeted Syrian military and Hezbollah targets in Syria on an almost regular basis, but its attacks on Saturday appeared to be the most intense yet.
Referring to the downed Israeli F-16, an official in the pro-Assad alliance said a "message" had been delivered to Israel. "I do not believe matters will develop to a regional war," the official said.
U.S. HAWKISH ON IRAN
In Washington, President Donald Trump's administration has backed Israel's hawkish stance on Iran, and declared containing Tehran's influence an objective of its Syria policy. On a visit to Israel last month, U.S. Vice President Mike Pence called Iran the world's "leading state sponsor of terror."
U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is also expected to visit the region in the coming week to discuss the crisis in Syria and other issues, and is scheduled to visit Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon and other countries.
Hezbollah and Israel last fought a major conflict in 2006.
Tensions have also spiked across the frontier between Israel and Lebanon over Israeli plans for border wall, and Lebanese plans to exploit an offshore energy block which is partly located in disputed waters.
The Israeli military said 12 targets, including three aerial defense batteries and four Iranian targets that are part of Iran's military establishment in Syria were attacked.
"During the attack, anti-aircraft missiles were fired towards Israel, triggering alarms that were heard in Northern Israel," the military said.
Syrian state media reported two separate Israeli attacks.
In the first one, a military source said Syrian air defenses had opened fire in response to an Israeli act of "aggression" against a military base, hitting "more than one plane."
Later, state media said air defenses were responding to a new Israeli assault and air defenses had thwarted attacks on military positions in southern Syria.
Israel said one of its attack helicopters shot down an Iranian drone at around 4.30am (0230 GMT) that had come from Syria into Israel. "In response, the IDF (Israel Defence Forces) targeted Iranian targets in Syria," the military said.
"MASSIVE" ANTI-AIRCRAFT FIRE
Israeli military spokesman Jonathan Conricus said a "substantial" number of Israeli warplanes on the mission had come under "massive Syrian anti-air fire," and only one Israeli jet was harmed.
The F-16 came down in a field near the northern Israeli village of Harduf, television footage showed, and one of the pilots was injured as they ejected, the military said.
David Ivry, a former Israeli Air Force chief, told Reuters he believed it was the first time an Israeli F-16 was brought down since Israel began using the jets in the 1980s.
"We don't know if the pilots ejected because of the (Syrian)fire," Conricus said. It was also unclear at what stage of the mission they ejected, he said, "but it is of extreme concern to us if they were shot down."
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said Israel had targeted areas in the countryside southwest of Damascus, near the Syrian-Lebanon border west of Damascus and in the eastern countryside of Homs province for several hours since dawn.
It said another set of raids hit southwest of Damascus, and another struck around the Damascus-Beirut highway near the border with Lebanon.
In Israel, uniformed military personnel could be seen gathered around the burnt and tangled metal in Harduf by mid-morning, with what appeared to be white foam on the surrounding grass. Others knelt in the grass, inspecting pieces of the jet.
Rocket alert sirens sounded in the Israeli-held Golan Heights and in northern Israel. There were no reports of casualties.
Flights in to Israel's main airport near Tel Aviv were suspended for about 15 minutes and take-offs were held for about 20 minutes on Saturday morning. "Ben Gurion Airport is now operating as usual," Israeli Airport Authority spokesman Ofer Lefler said.
The airport's online live flight schedule showed flights were departing and landing.
(Reporting by Maayan Lubell; Additional reporting by Tom Perry in Beirut and Stephen Farrell in Jerusalem; Writing by Tom Perry; Editing by Andrew Heavens and Richard Balmforth)
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18389/flurry-of-aircraft-shoot-downs-and-counter-strikes-erupt-across-israel-and-syria
Quote from: mirth on February 10, 2018, 12:35:40 PM
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18389/flurry-of-aircraft-shoot-downs-and-counter-strikes-erupt-across-israel-and-syria
Now that was an interesting story.
My wife and I want to go to the Holy Land when we are 80+ and it does not make any difference if we get blown up or not.
https://nypost.com/2018/02/13/russians-attacked-american-troops-on-putins-orders/
fucking with the US and Israel at the same time is probably the worst idea a country could have.
https://twitter.com/phildstewart/status/964204557633978371
Looks like there's going to be some positions opening up. ::)
From what I've heard it was B52s, Strike Eagles, Predators and arty that did the work.
not 100% sure how accurate this all is, but if even half of it is, it's kinda hilarious for us
QuoteFurther reporting, such as it is, on the Dair Ezzor Turkey Shoot.
1. Sov... err... Russians built a bridge over the Euphrates which was the designated 'deconfliction line'. Why? Reasons. 'Commite of Nations' or something.
2. 'Hybrid' force of mixed Russian contractors including multiple non-ethnic Russians (Serbs, Kossack, other non Slavics) as well as local Syrian Army 'commandos' attacked across temporary bridge. The 'Russian' side were 'Blackwater' equivalent mercenaries from a company generally called 'Wagner' which is the nom de plume of the boss. (Like if you called Blackwater 'Prince'.)
3. Unit was partially mechanized, battalion strength. (One thing everyone agrees upon is 'about 600-700 personnel.') Had some towed artillery as well as 't-55 and T-72 MBT as well as armored personnel carriers.' (Type unknown.) Full on 'we're taking that position and you're not stopping us' full court press.
4. Unit crossed bridge, arty deployed.
5. Arty opened fire while most of unit was still in approach column formation. (Normal) One portion moved to flanking positions.
5A. Minute the arty opened fire SHIT GOT REAL REAL QUICK.
6. Reapers took out artillery and most of armor with Hellfire. From the few videos, pretty much before they knew what hit them. There had to be quite a few Reaper drones up or they were feeding guidance to Hellfire from Apaches (see below.)
7. F-15E Eagles came in for clean-up and to check for anti-air defenses.
8. Warthogs showed up just to go BRRRRRRT!
9. AC-130 Spectre started fucking up their day for the hell of it.
10. To add insult to injury, B-52s which, you know, just HAPPENED to be in the area, just minding our own business, just passing by from Diego Garcia which is a few thousand miles away, on our way to... somewhere... nothing to see here... decided to prove they could drop their entire load as precision guided weapons and just more or less DID A JDAM ARCLIGHT ON THEIR ASS. At that point, more or less because CENTCOM said 'Why not? ARCLIGHT is always pretty to watch...'
11. The whole thing being so over it was ridiculous, AH-64 Apaches basically did 'hostile Bomb Damage Assessment' and complained there were no targets left.
12. Oh, and then the Kurds, to just really FUCK with these guys, released water from a dam upstream and broke their bridge. So they had to ford back with their wounded.
13. Nobody knows how many dead and wounded. Russians are saying 'only 8 Russian citizens' but that doesn't quite cover the whole of who may have been involved. One repeated number is 200 dead (remember, mixed Syrians, Russians and other ethnics) as well as pretty much the rest of the force wounded. (Not to mention pretty thoroughly demoralized.) One Kurd wounded. Probably fell off a stool laughing to tell truth.
14. Military hospitals in Russia are reliably reported 'overflowing.'
This was much less a 'battle' than a message. Towards the end we had to just be pounding ground to make sure they got it.
Messages, really.
A. Don't fucking cross that river.
B. Hey, North Korea! LOOK WHAT I CAN DO!
C. Hey, Putin, about Donbas... This is what we can do to your 'freedom fighters' (AKA: mercenaries) at any time.
D. To everyone in general: You need to remember who's boss.
Mattis is playing dumb. 'What Russians? There were Russians? Really? I'm seeing that in the media but I got no briefing on there being Russians in that column. Our bad. Sorry about that.'
Then there's the fact that the strike was NOT approved by the President.
Because he gave CENTOM the approval on things like that.
And CENTCOM handled it like a BOSS.
Oh, and when the forces crossed the river the Russians were informed and informed that we intended to take 'self-defense' actions.
So they can't even say they weren't warned.
I'm not sure we warned them we'd be using BUFF.
This is more the sort of thing I'd expect in late summer.
'Shit! We haven't expended our budget! Are there any Russians we can fuck up very badly with all these unexpended munitions?'
Last thought: It had to be shitty being on the receiving end of that.
L O FUCKING L!
Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 19, 2018, 06:01:28 AM
not 100% sure how accurate this all is, but if even half of it is, it's kinda hilarious for us
I did not understand I was missing something from my life, until now! :D :notworthy:
...um, link?
That was a hilarious read.
This part is critical on the outcome. If this had been under Obama, the Russians would have rolled over the opposition, and there's a good chance Putin would have gotten his end goal of getting American out of Syria. If not this battle, then the next couple. But with CENTCOMM not having to call home and ask permission to stay out past curfew, it's a whole new game.
QuoteThen there's the fact that the strike was NOT approved by the President.
Because he gave CENTOM the approval on things like that.
And CENTCOM handled it like a BOSS.
Quote from: JasonPratt on February 19, 2018, 09:30:45 AM
...um, link?
it was a FB post a friend shared, so limited vis outside of that audience
'One Kurd wounded. Probably fell off a stool laughing to tell truth.'
O0
Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 19, 2018, 12:05:50 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on February 19, 2018, 09:30:45 AM
...um, link?
it was a FB post a friend shared, so limited vis outside of that audience
Drat. I was about to lose a week's worth of productive time backchecking the articles from wherever. :'(
Quote from: JasonPratt on February 19, 2018, 12:57:26 PM
Drat. I was about to lose a week's worth of productive time backchecking the articles from wherever. :'(
https://toinformistoinfluence.com/2018/02/15/the-deir-ezzor-turkey-shoot/
https://nypost.com/2018/02/13/us-reportedly-killed-as-many-as-100-russian-fighters-in-syria-attack/
https://www.vox.com/world/2018/2/13/17008446/us-troops-syria-russia-mercenaries-killed
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-13/u-s-strikes-said-to-kill-scores-of-russian-fighters-in-syria
Those were far less entertaining, but thx. O0
Quote from: JasonPratt on February 19, 2018, 04:12:33 PM
Those were far less entertaining, but thx. O0
well, pretty much anything was going to be less entertaining... :D
So, the lesson from this is that if USAF has air superiority, then the BUFF will rule the battlefield.
name one country that can actually challenge US air dominance?
Burkina Faso
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 20, 2018, 09:29:42 PM
name one country that can actually challenge US air dominance?
No one that I can think of. However, a few countries, Russia, China, Norks, maybe Iran, would give a try. Or at least make it difficult for the BUFFs to do their thing without more worry/support.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 20, 2018, 09:29:42 PM
name one country that can actually challenge US air dominance?
Domination of Draka?
Nobody provided the U.S. has planes that can actually fly when they're supposed to and pilots to man them which lately hasn't been a sure thing.
Let's be honest - no one has really tried to challenge US air dominance since Korea. Even the Vietnamese didn't send up a whole lot of planes to fight back.
What would it look like if the Russians actually started shooting back with all their AA in support of their aircraft engaging us?
The Kremlin has decided to turn their disinformation machine on the White Helmets in Syria
https://medium.com/dfrlab/syriahoax-part-two-kremlin-targets-white-helmets-c6ab692d4a21
Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 21, 2018, 06:01:42 AM
The Kremlin has decided to turn their disinformation machine on the White Helmets in Syria
https://medium.com/dfrlab/syriahoax-part-two-kremlin-targets-white-helmets-c6ab692d4a21
They are targeting hospitals so this is no surprise... expected really.
The Iraqi Air Force put on a great show during the first Gulf War...by flying to Iran to hide.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 21, 2018, 05:32:26 AM
Let's be honest - no one has really tried to challenge US air dominance since Korea. Even the Vietnamese didn't send up a whole lot of planes to fight back.
What would it look like if the Russians actually started shooting back with all their AA in support of their aircraft engaging us?
you do realize that we have more tankers then their entire operational air force right.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 21, 2018, 09:24:14 PM
you do realize that we have more tankers then their entire operational air force right.
we have more tankers and their entire operational air force appears after and makes a 90° turn?
care to expand on that?
https://twitter.com/TheAviationist/status/966696105638531072
Those Russians are a devious bunch to make their stealth jets visible to confuse us. Damn them!
Very strong Spanish Civil War vibe in Syria - all sides testing their equipment for the next big showdown.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18693/did-russia-just-send-some-of-its-su-57-stealth-fighters-to-syria
http://www.newsweek.com/total-f-russian-mercenaries-syria-lament-us-strike-killed-dozens-818073
"The Yankees made their [bleeping] point."
Yes. Yes we did. When your commanders say "Go take that from the Americans", you go defect.
http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-leaked-audio-humiliating-defeat-by-us-forces-2018-2
Didn't know where else to put this. But it is eerie and disturbing in its parallels to the behavior of other dictators in the last 75 years :buck2:
http://nyti.ms/2ouppoG
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthirdreichruins.com%2Fberneliak37t.jpg&hash=3e20fb647d027ce64f82fde92308cb81fad979e9)
Well if that doesn't make your skin crawl...
It's shameless. It's not like the 1940s were that long ago. There are still people alive who were there.
Unbelievable.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/27/world/asia/north-korea-syria-chemical-weapons-sanctions.html
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/us-russia-syria-implication-serious/
https://www.funker530.com/russian-mercenaries-operating-syria/
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19023/russian-an-26-transport-plane-crashes-in-syria-killing-32-people-on-board
One of the weirder turns in the Syrian conflict last year, illustrating the mind-bending and disastrous politics at work there among people who don't give the slightest hoot about the lives of the common people they can inflame or grind into the dirt.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/14/magazine/how-a-ransom-for-royal-falconers-reshaped-the-middle-east.html
Iran, through a truly screwy secondhand move, has just substantially strengthened its position toward being the dominant power of the Middle East (if it isn't already there, over-against Saudi Arabia).
https://twitter.com/LizSly/status/974414311337680896
Shit
https://twitter.com/TheAviationist/status/974414591634657280
Fuck. Hoping for best outcome really, really hard...
Quote from: Staggerwing on March 15, 2018, 07:49:34 PM
Fuck. Hoping for best outcome really, really hard...
+100 :(
...they crash-evac'd in the middle of an enemy compound and conquered it by surprise and sheer ballsy skill despite any wounds in the landing?
(Hey, it could happen. That almost describes the raid on Osama Bin Ladin.)
OK dude. Just keep hoping really really hard.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19310/u-s-air-force-hh-60g-pave-hawk-helicopter-crashes-in-iraq-near-the-syrian-border
https://twitter.com/TaraCopp/status/974617966917582848
crap. :'(
Not really unexpected but still.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19380/video-supposedly-shows-syrian-dictator-assad-driving-a-honda-into-war-torn-east-ghouta
I'm not buying it. No way that guy he cut-off in traffic would've given him the finger and lived. ;D
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/30/world/middleeast/syria-us-coalition-deaths.html
Long read, but worth it
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-flights/special-report-how-a-secret-russian-airlift-helps-syrias-assad-idUSKCN1HD18Y
New chemical attack being reported
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-attack/gas-attack-reported-on-syrian-rebel-enclave-damascus-denies-idUSKBN1HE0RR
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/982966315467116544 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/982966315467116544)
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/982967389028569088
thats some great diplomatic action..... L:-)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on April 08, 2018, 05:15:36 PM
thats some great diplomatic action..... L:-)
Trump believes in the power of tweets....Putin will be chastised into obedience by this blistering 140 character attack with CAPS and exclamation mark!
SAD!
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/19981/punitive-air-strikes-targeting-syrian-military-sites-have-begun-live-updating
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/world/middleeast/syria-russia-israel-air-base.html
This
QuoteOn Sunday, Yitzchak Yosef, the Sephardi chief rabbi of Israel, condemned the reported chemical attack.
"I have said in the past and I will say it again: What is happening in Syria is genocide of women and children in its cruelest form, using weapons of mass destruction," he said in a statement. "We have a moral obligation not to keep quiet and to try and stop this massacre."
https://www.thenation.com/article/israel-and-hezbollah-are-girding-for-war-and-the-next-round-could-be-horrific/
thats an awful lot of missiles to take down 1 plane. I would think that if shit got real the IAF would SEAD the shit out of the region first and be running properly organized strikes. its the fucking IAF.
Got to be a special kind of suicidal to man a SAM site over there now.
Suicidal recruits doesn't seem to be a problem in the region
Quote from: mirth on April 09, 2018, 06:50:51 PM
Suicidal recruits doesn't seem to be a problem in the region
ones smart enough to operate SAM sites though?
I find it interesting how France is really keen to get in on any military power projection. I suspect we will be seeing some cruise missile strikes and air strikes within the next few days.
And that's brilliant because who would ever expect the French to attack? That's like saying the Pope is going to invade. :clap:
Quote from: Sir Slash on April 10, 2018, 09:25:38 AM
And that's brilliant because who would ever expect the French to attack? That's like saying the Pope is going to invade. :clap:
Make the Holy Roman Empire Great Again
At this point the Pope is the only one who has not invaded.
It used to be Afghanistan was," The Graveyard of Empires". How many empires has Syria seen come and go? :idiot2:
Quote from: Sir Slash on April 10, 2018, 09:48:59 AM
It used to be Afghanistan was," The Graveyard of Empires". How many empires has Syria seen come and go? :idiot2:
Since literally the beginning of human recorded history.
That's older than Bob! #:-)
But not Windy.
http://uawire.org/media-russian-air-defense-systems-failed-to-intercept-israeli-missiles-over-syria-due-to-external-interference
Quote from: mirth on April 10, 2018, 12:55:56 PM
http://uawire.org/media-russian-air-defense-systems-failed-to-intercept-israeli-missiles-over-syria-due-to-external-interference
Be jammin', Mon.
And the Israelis 'jammed' it to the Syrians! O0
In other words, we'll do whatever we please in Syria.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-urges-us-refrain-from-syria-plans-you-are-developing/ar-AAvJnCs?ocid=spartanntp
From Reuters
QuoteRussian U.N. Ambassador Vassily Nebenzia appealed to the United States on Tuesday to "refrain" from any action it might be planning against Syria over a suspected deadly chemical weapons attack.
"The threats you are proffering that you're stating vis-a-vis Syria should make us seriously worried, all of us, because we could find ourselves on the threshold of some very sad and serious events," Nebenzia told U.S. Ambassador Nikki Haley.
"I would once again ask you, once again beseech you, to refrain from the plans that you're currently developing for Syria," he said after the council failed to approve a third draft resolution on chemical weapons attacks in Syria.
(Reporting by Michelle Nichols; Editing by Peter Cooney)
Like the UN is going to do anything.
I'm guessing most of the UN would cheer is Syria launched a chem attack on Israel.
And protest when Israel retaliated.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20043/trump-to-putin-get-ready-u-s-missiles-are-coming-also-can-we-make-a-deal
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-military-killed-hundreds-of-russians-syria-trump-administration-confirms-2018-4
:2funny:
I still think it's weird that the merc company in question is called 'Wagner' because the Russian oligarch who owns it is a Nazi-phile. Lots of Great Patriotic Martyrs back home must be rolling over in their graves.
expect more tests.
I can't really shed a tear for a Nazi themed Russian mercenary company getting blown to bits by 'Murica.
You've got to wonder what would've happened if this happened when Obama was Pres. :-X :-X :-X
Nothing?
That's what I am afraid of. Nothing would have been done by the administration that had to have a majority Cabinet decision every time somebody wanted to load their rifle until Ivan was eating their MRE's.
I've never had Russian Army food but I don't think they would want to eat our MREs...except maybe the meat ravioli.
The Meat Ravioli is good. Stay away from the Kung Pow Chicken.
And the stroganov.
do you strogenough?
Doh! It wasn't the Syrians/Russians. It was the British who used chemicals to try and frame Syria and Russia. Now we have an excuse to invade England, annex them, force them to drive ont he correct side of the road and save Meghan Markle from the Dark Prince Harry.
To Arms!!!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-says-alleged-chemical-attack-in-syria-staged-by-uk/ar-AAvQbDL?ocid=spartanntp
I'll put the kettle on.
Ill bring Italian Front.
I'll bring the IDF.
That would be complete over kill.
Give it to him. It's his best post for the weekend.
I'll bring the stroganoff.
Report of strikes. Trump going to address nation.
Missiles launched:
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/13/601794830/u-s-launches-attacks-on-syria
yep, we're bombing...
Along with Britain and France.
Bombing what? By now all the syrian MiGs and helos are scattered hither and yon. Maybe we should be targeting Assad&Co's offshore bank accounts.
Do I need to get my helmet?
When Libya got into the terrorist game back in the 80's, the US targeted him directly. That gave that game up pretty quickly.
Quote from: Gusington on April 13, 2018, 08:17:08 PM
Do I need to get my helmet?
Yes.
Unless that's a euphemism for safe sexytime. Then still yes.
Damn thing is so heavy...basically doubles my weight.
I thought the weight gain was from the blood rushing to your head
Which head?
I don't need a helmet. I live near a priority first strike target. Probably not close enough to get in the initial fireball. House would stand from the blast wave too. I just have two rounds for my .45 for my wife and I.
Although I appreciate the military action, the Russian bullying bear stance and the volatile nature of Trumps character makes this worrying.
He's not exactly a master of brinkmanship when it comes to conflict. He'd just push that nice big button on his desk.
Starting with a simple problem: the United States, at the moment, does not have a Secretary of State/Minister of Foreign Affairs. Who would Lavrov or anyone else call?
Second fairly simple problem: Russia wants to retaliate, but seeing as how no Russians were injured or killed any strike against NATO armed forces would hardly be proportionate.
Besides: what would Russia do? Sink a US destroyer? Article 5, war with NATO. Attack NATO aircraft on airfields in Turkey or elsewhere? Article 5, war with NATO.
I hope the NATO reaction forces in the Baltic States got some good rest in the last few days, because they are not likely to enjoy a good rest any time soon if the Russians do attack a NATO target.
It's strange how, from one minute to the next, the world could face the next global war. Being at this point makes it a lot easier to understand how the First World War could occur.
I have to wonder if the IAF strike a few days ago was a sort of "recon by fire" to confirm intel on the location of Syrian/Russian defenses?
That seems a very real possibility. It could also cause the Syrians and Russians to move additional AA assets closer to future IAF inland incursion routes, possibly leaving some gaps on the northern Med side of Syria.
Saw a report on CNN that the Syrian Air Force did not even attempt to defend their airspace...probably on Russian orders to stand down.
I am still trying to figure out why the Syrians used chemicals so close to their final victory. Unless it wasn't the Syrian gov't, but some rebel group to make it look like it was the Syrian gov't.
Also, if I get incinerated in a nuclear fire because of Syria I am going to be pissed.
Quote from: Gusington on April 14, 2018, 09:58:14 AM
I am still trying to figure out why the Syrians used chemicals so close to their final victory.
I think I heard on our local news that the attack made (or forced) the last 'rebels' leave the area. So Assad got out of it what he wanted.
Also, Assad probably doesn't give a crap what anyone thinks of what he does, since to him his two choices probably appear to be:
1) Win at all costs
or
2) end up as a corpse hung upside down from a gas station canopy
No worries Gus. You can come shelter in my secret bunker under my pool. Though.... the only game I have to play is Empire Total War so........ :-"
^I guess it'll be incineration for me then.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/30704542_2078556349054863_5188067279476097024_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeEhzGZ2X5DRZK10CgJOtNnyt9S5rTTKhwpkO9fg3MMgskGeB78EHuRUfDN9mJzLW9f7Gpki_OS8JV3ObXHBWQT_LE7fJzygiMm3baDwYQp4Zg&oh=0c1a2fdb51d23bce067779f85828be8c&oe=5B755BC8)
Who does the mother represent?
Quote from: Gusington on April 14, 2018, 05:25:37 PM
Who does the mother represent?
you need to pay a whoooooooole lot more money for any of us to give ou
that kind of psychoanalysis
I get paid Tuesday.
Warship Ruse and New Stealth Missiles: How the U.S. and Allies Attacked Syria https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2018-04-14/warship-ruse-and-new-stealth-missiles-how-they-attacked-syria
https://www.buzzfeed.com/katebubacz/syria-citizens-live-underground
Quote from: Gusington on April 14, 2018, 09:58:14 AM
I am still trying to figure out why the Syrians used chemicals so close to their final victory. Unless it wasn't the Syrian gov't, but some rebel group to make it look like it was the Syrian gov't.
here is your briefing, Sir :)
1. the Russkies had negotiated a ceasefire and orderly withdraw with the 'rebels' including supporters (family), which seemed to work fine first, then fizzled and then failed because of the ever struggling sub-factions and sub-sub-factions (welcome to the Orient) even inside that smallish 'rebels'-enclave.
They hided in deep dug tunnels in addition to existing cellars under the buildings. then a 'hazard industrial chemical', as a 'makeshift teargas/chem weapon' plus a grind of some real chemical weapons (Sarin?) (here comes the tricky part, who released that, was it in the mix before or did some rebels sub faction released a smallish amount when they got smoked out, on-top for White Helmet propaganda war purpose'?) was used to drive them and their supporting families out from those underground structures.
rebels returned to the negotiated plan after the 'smoke out' attack immediately, so it worked out very well for Assad and the Russkies (those surly don't want close combat in an urban environment clearing out tunnel by tunnel with squads, the causality rate can be up to 10:1 for the attacker)
2. Assad's Syrian population in Damascus was outraged after fresh real! civilians death by shelling with rockets from that rebels enclave and demanded a fitting cruel retaliation (welcome to the Orient again) so the 'smoke them out attack' was also the political right thing to dare by the Assad-faction for his inner politics.
So I personally know 2 different neutral middle east experts - one's Canadian and another is Greek - that will both tell you in no uncertain terms that the White Helmets are the unsung heroes of the Middle East who are worked their damned asses off to do nothing more than save civilian lives. They don't care which side you're on or how you got hit. If you're in the free fire zone, they're trying to patch you up and get you out, at a significant exposure of themselves to personal harm.
I'll take the personal on-the-ground experience of a pair of people who I trust completely and were actually there at some point within the past 18 months over the long-distance disparagement of anyone claiming the White Helmets are some sort of nefarious plot to dupe/confuse people already prone to fall for the conspiracy-theory-du-jour.
Why not just wait the remaining rebels out, if you're the Syrian gov't, instead of using chemicals and pissing off the entire world?
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 15, 2018, 06:24:10 AM
So I personally know 2 different neutral middle east experts - one's Canadian and another is Greek - that will both tell you in no uncertain terms that the White Helmets are the unsung heroes of the Middle East who are worked their damned asses off to do nothing more than save civilian lives. They don't care which side you're on or how you got hit. If you're in the free fire zone, they're trying to patch you up and get you out, at a significant exposure of themselves to personal harm.
I'll take the personal on-the-ground experience of a pair of people who I trust completely and were actually there at some point within the past 18 months over the long-distance disparagement of anyone claiming the White Helmets are some sort of nefarious plot to dupe/confuse people already prone to fall for the conspiracy-theory-du-jour.
+1
Putin warns of 'chaos' in international order if Syria gets attacked again - https://www.cnbc.com/id/105133001?view=story&trk=mostpopular::1:102527204
Quote from: OJsDad on April 15, 2018, 08:15:41 PM
Putin warns of 'chaos' in international order if Syria gets attacked again - https://www.cnbc.com/id/105133001?view=story&trk=mostpopular::1:102527204
Putin should know- just look at Ukraine/Crimea.
I have 4 gallon jugs of Chlorine to use in my swimming pool. Do I need to register these with the United Nations does anyone know? And am I now stronger than the Syrian Army?
https://politics.theonion.com/u-s-won-t-rule-out-escalating-defense-sector-profits-f-1825304781
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20191/conflicting-claims-swirl-as-israel-continues-air-war-against-iranian-interests-in-syria
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2018/04/18/belgium-illegally-shipped-96-tonnes-sarin-precursor-syria/
https://twitter.com/defense_news/status/986704880852185088
Add Iraq to the growing list of countries dropping ordnance in Syria: http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20237/now-iraq-has-started-bombing-targets-in-syria-too (http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20237/now-iraq-has-started-bombing-targets-in-syria-too)
Of all the countries doing so, I kinda feel like Iraq has the best justification.
Kind of like Pershing going after Panch Villa?
Missile fire over Damascus (click to enlarge)
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/42cfd7132cdc6bf3bd8230fdeb23745d43562bdc/0_384_5760_3456/master/5760.jpg?w=1920&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=57130acebf680dd02587881342773a13)
Posted in wrong place. JFC....
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20273/russia-put-up-a-smoke-screen-to-hide-delivery-of-s-300-sams-to-syria-according-to-claim
Brothers Linked To Assad Gave Thousands To Dennis Kucinich's Ohio Political Machine
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5ada6d6fe4b009869bf96907/amp
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/we-may-hit-russian-systems-in-syria-israel-says-after-threats-of-catastrophic-consequences-1.6027919
https://breakingdefense.com/2018/04/russia-widens-ew-war-disabling-ec-130s-in-syria/
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagesvc.timeincapp.com%2Fv3%2Ffoundry%2Fimage%2F%3Fq%3D60%26amp%3Burl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fs3.amazonaws.com%252Fthe-drive-staging%252Fmessage-editor%25252F1525034971253-bg755.jpg&hash=15e0fe0d593bc9bb20bbdfbd21b4132bebc83e54)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagesvc.timeincapp.com%2Fv3%2Ffoundry%2Fimage%2F%3Fq%3D60%26amp%3Burl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fs3.amazonaws.com%252Fthe-drive-staging%252Fmessage-editor%25252F1525035585545-nhhu8.jpg&hash=d486412165a75b8e7e8a81d26f784d3c313d0a53)
It's turned in to a real party, all the popular kids are there.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20573/lets-talk-about-this-rumor-that-israeli-f-15s-mimicked-us-jets-to-strike-at-iran-in-syria
Great article! O0
https://twitter.com/thewarzonewire/status/991986358490095621 (https://twitter.com/thewarzonewire/status/991986358490095621)
Rest In Peace Russkies. Sad to have to die so far from home for Vlad's New Empire.
Maybe they forgot they had no carrier to land on.
;D
RIP Russian Airmen. May your leadership one day become worthy of your sacrifice.
has it ever been?
It's still possible, even if not probable.
Catherine the Great! Though her ex told me she wasn't THAT great.
Her ex, Mr. Ed? 'Catherine come in the roooooom!'
Mr. Ed was always horsing around.
https://www.c4isrnet.com/unmanned/2018/05/07/russia-confirms-its-armed-robot-tank-was-in-syria/
Skynet will eliminate it.
Quote from: Gusington on May 08, 2018, 03:44:17 PM
Skynet will eliminate it have it's babies who will hunt down all us humans to extinction.
FITY
I wish a robot would kill me.
Quote from: mirth on May 08, 2018, 06:43:05 PM
I wish a robot would kill me.
At least make it a fembot.
Quote from: mirth on May 08, 2018, 06:43:05 PM
I wish a robot would kill me.
I always suspected that you would ride the Sybian off into the sunset
I hear the Russians claim the Uran-9 is a big success. They say they would build more but every time they try, the robot destroys them all. So...a one-time success.
If it has not killed mirth it is not a success.
I sense a Pay-Per-View Event: Mirth vs Uran-9 The Pain from Maine! :clap:
Quote from: Con on May 08, 2018, 09:57:10 PM
Quote from: mirth on May 08, 2018, 06:43:05 PM
I wish a robot would kill me.
I always suspected that you would ride the Sybian off into the sunset
Now theres a Slim Pickens visual......
Quote from: Sir Slash on May 09, 2018, 09:14:29 AM
I sense a Pay-Per-View Event: Mirth vs Uran-9 The Pain from Maine! :clap:
My agent is already in talks.
Meanwhile
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20759/rockets-fly-over-the-golan-heights-as-a-larger-conflict-between-israel-and-iran-looms
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/05/10/israel-strikes-nearly-all-iranian-infrastructure-in-syria-after-iran-rocket-attack-minister-says.html
Oy vey
Get yer helmet....
This time I just rushed to put it on.
I wonder how much more Israel will take from Syria before MAZI sends in the troops?
If an Israeli civilian gets killed by a rocket... all bets are off.... :o
And Netanyahu was in Moscow talking to Putin. Wonder what they were discussing. Summer Vacation spots?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/15/opinion/war-syria-iran-israel.html
I'm sure that the Iranians feel bolstered, emboldened and well insulated in Syria, surrounded by allies and covered by the Russian bear.
Who's going to protect the Russian Bear from the Israel's?
Iran?
♬ "Iran... Iran so far away-ay-ay... couldn't get away..." ♬
Quote from: Gusington on May 10, 2018, 08:48:08 PM
Iran?
They may have their hands full with the Saudis.
^And the U.S. And Israel. And their colonization of Syria. There is also growing protest at home for Iran...hopefully their gov't will crack further. Maybe they really have overextended themselves.
Couldn't happen to a better bunch of creeps. I wonder how much actual control the Ayatollahs have over the Revolutionary Guards? Who's calling the shots?
Excellent question!
https://theaviationist.com/2018/05/10/the-israeli-air-force-has-just-released-a-video-of-a-pantsir-s1-air-defense-system-being-struck-in-last-night-attack-in-syria/
Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 11, 2018, 06:28:48 AM
https://theaviationist.com/2018/05/10/the-israeli-air-force-has-just-released-a-video-of-a-pantsir-s1-air-defense-system-being-struck-in-last-night-attack-in-syria/
Some poor schmuck can be seen running to the vehicle just before the missile arrives.... #:-)
Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 11, 2018, 06:28:48 AM
https://theaviationist.com/2018/05/10/the-israeli-air-force-has-just-released-a-video-of-a-pantsir-s1-air-defense-system-being-struck-in-last-night-attack-in-syria/
From the comment section. Russian troll;
Quote
su-34 • 5 hours ago
Superficially analyzing the clip we can conclude that the jewish "missiles" are just a bit faster than a man running on the ground.
From the point of detecting the incoming "missile", probably due to its noise, the guy runs towards the Pantsir-S1 (SA-22 in nato parlance, which is obviously in transport position, and not on active duty) and needs about 1,5 seconds for around 10m (considering the airstrip around 30m wide) to get there. The "missile" needs about 6 seconds to do the same thing (obviously from farther away).
Not knowing the characteristics of the optics on the "missile" it can't be exactly determined from what initial distance the night vision footage was taken. A standard objective field of view is around 50 degrees so we can estimate the initial distance to be around 200m, which will be covered in 9 seconds, so the speed is around 22m/s or 80km/h.
The noise on the footage is typical for an FM analog transmission - not exactly what would be expected from a modern military "missile".
The wiggling in the footage can be attributed with high probability to a human operator trying to align the flight path of the "missile" to the target.
All those considered, we can conclude that the footage was taken from a drone, operated by the terrorist buddies financed, and supported by the yank "coalition", maybe with an explosive payload, beside the camera.
We have no idea of where, and when the footage was taken, but it's obviously not what's claimed by the jewish military.
From a (former) IAF (the italian one) pilot, I would expect a little more critical thinking. He should know how fast a missile is approaching it's target. Or he just chose to ignore it.
Quote from: OJsDad on May 11, 2018, 07:05:34 AM
From the comment section. Russian troll;
Quote
su-34 • 5 hours ago
Superficially analyzing the clip we can conclude that the jewish "missiles" are just a bit faster than a man running on the ground.
From the point of detecting the incoming "missile", probably due to its noise, the guy runs towards the Pantsir-S1 (SA-22 in nato parlance, which is obviously in transport position, and not on active duty) and needs about 1,5 seconds for around 10m (considering the airstrip around 30m wide) to get there. The "missile" needs about 6 seconds to do the same thing (obviously from farther away).
Not knowing the characteristics of the optics on the "missile" it can't be exactly determined from what initial distance the night vision footage was taken. A standard objective field of view is around 50 degrees so we can estimate the initial distance to be around 200m, which will be covered in 9 seconds, so the speed is around 22m/s or 80km/h.
The noise on the footage is typical for an FM analog transmission - not exactly what would be expected from a modern military "missile".
The wiggling in the footage can be attributed with high probability to a human operator trying to align the flight path of the "missile" to the target.
All those considered, we can conclude that the footage was taken from a drone, operated by the terrorist buddies financed, and supported by the yank "coalition", maybe with an explosive payload, beside the camera.
We have no idea of where, and when the footage was taken, but it's obviously not what's claimed by the jewish military.
From a (former) IAF (the italian one) pilot, I would expect a little more critical thinking. He should know how fast a missile is approaching it's target. Or he just chose to ignore it.
Whoever wrote has no idea what he's talking about. That's just nonsense.
Like I said, Russian troll. Was probably playing hockey with Putin last night.
'The Jewish Missile'
Quote from: Gusington on May 11, 2018, 08:07:55 AM
'The Jewish Missile'
How did they get your codename?
I don't know!! I (and Star, and perhaps JH) have been compromised!
Mole hunt!!!
Incredible! The Israelis have managed to invent weaponry with a religious viewpoint. :o I can't wait for the Catholic Battle Tanks and Hindu Attack Submarines. What a marvelous age we are living in! Question, if the missile is Jewish, does it still hit targets on the Sabbath? And exactly how do you safely circumcise a missile? :hide:
Does that mean atheists don't have any weapons?
They have weapons. They just don't believe in worshipping them. Maybe?
The Jewish Missile's work is done here. I leave you to your barbarism, knaves.
Quote from: Sir Slash on May 11, 2018, 09:45:26 AM
And exactly how do you safely circumcise a missile?
You have a brissile for the missile.
Quote from: Sir Slash on May 11, 2018, 09:50:18 AM
They have weapons. They just don't believe in worshipping them. Maybe?
Quote from: OJsDad on May 11, 2018, 09:47:15 AM
Does that mean atheists don't have any weapons?
We don't need weapons, we let the religions destroy each other 8).
https://twitter.com/CITeam_en/status/998884060482166784
:2funny:
Has Vlad discovered a 'new' Afghanistan for the Russian Army? :buck2:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/middleeast/american-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.html