I've been waiting for this a while. ...for, um... three years?! :o :wow: THE AGE! IT BURRRNNNNNSSSS!!!
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/product.asp?gid=635
Note that any implication this will have something to do with genetically advanced apes, other than the obvious, should be disregarded. >:D
Also coming to iOS apparently, but the game looks like a proper tabletop product. (Except, y'know, on PC. ...and iOS.)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matrixgames.com%2Ffiles%2Fgames%2F635%2F20160622031527.jpg&hash=4b558dcc2900c5fb7859cb946ef463a9b3b58c1b)
Who shall sacrifice themselves with me to mp this thing out of the gate!?
I'm a sucker for any Civil War game and this looks good but I'm wary of anything also made for tablets. Just don't know if it ends up having enough depth under the hood.
It seems strange that there was so little notice on the release. No AAR. No Twitch stream. Maybe I'm reading too much into that though.
Quote from: mikeck on July 11, 2017, 12:04:21 PM
I'm wary of anything also made for tablets. Just don't know if it ends up having enough depth under the hood.
Right or wrong, my view is the same. I own three different tablets right now but I don't play games on any of them. And, as long as I can afford a decent desktop and/or laptop, I doubt I ever will.
Quote from: mikeck on July 11, 2017, 12:04:21 PM
I'm a sucker for any Civil War game and this looks good but I'm wary of anything also made for tablets. Just don't know if it ends up having enough depth under the hood.
Matrix rates it as "intermediate" complexity, so take that into context of what they regard as intermediate.
Korsun Pocket and its successors, for example.
Guns of August. Most AGEOD games
I
strenuously doubt that G:TTT will be as "intermediate" as those. ;) But even if it's on the low side of intermediate, that's more than the stereotypical iOS game.
On the other hand, the total game is 150 Megs, so...
First impressions:
It doesn't look intermediate to me, but It is better than I expected. I like the art, but I don't like the interface. Especially I hate this unit activation roulette.
Yeah, doesn't look "Matrix Intermediate" to me either. But okay.
I didn't realize the initiative would be that random though! -- I can understand some randomization, but aren't there modifiers at all? Will have to look into that.
All regiments in a single hex? You can't move individually ? Doesn't seem as though facing plays a part ?
Like the map. Bigger than expected but seems a bit odd to me it seems all units of a brigade all in one hex
Agree with the previous impressions. At least in their Bulge game you got to prioritize the order of moving your units with a random amount of time passing. In Gettysburg the totally random corps activation and combat initiation is probably a game killer for me. It wasn't clear if having the high ground made any difference. A couple of times it looked like arty fired right through friendly units. Hard to say for sure though. I also liked the look of the map and it did look large enough to allow for maneuver room.
Edit - I asked at the Slitherine forums if there is a turn replay in PBEM but nobody ever answered. Hopefully the answer is yes.
Found another video (2 parts) here where the guy is explaining more of the mechanics. However the game hung after a couple of turns and he had to redo part of it. Not a good first impression.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgVFZwFL-Rs
Disclaimer - I have not watched all of this video or any of the second one yet, but wanted to share it here anyway.
Historical gamer made much more informative video:
Not an intermediate game but there is some depth in combat. I don't like random order though. They should give some tools to alter the order of activation at least few times during battle.
So.... this "Battle Hymn: Gettysburg" sounds like an interesting game. ???
I was interested in this title until I read about the "random" movement component. Movement order based on leadership or some sort of action point is fine...but random? I'll never look back on this one. Stupid design.
I don't see any FoW option. Hopefully I just missed it in the videos. Hate to sound critical as the game is only $10.
It's sort of a boardgame, so I'm not too whack about a fog of war.
That said, one of the videos seemed to show Confederate units up in the actual Gettysburg area in a fog of war: there, but unknown. They also didn't seem to be activated, so maybe that's the difference.
The same map designer for the PC game, did the work on an upcoming Gettysburg boardgame from Compass games.
(https://www.compassgames.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/a/battlehymn_gettysberg_map.jpg)
That is one beautiful map! O0 Almost makes me want to play a Civil War game....
So is the Compass game based on this, the other way around, or neither?
Quote from: bbmike on July 14, 2017, 08:57:15 AM
So is the Compass game based on this, the other way around, or neither?
Not sure, I was wondering the same.
The PC game is only $11 CDN :o Fer that price I'll probably buy it just to see it.
If the board game is called "Battle Hymn: Gettysburg" then I think we'll know which came first (since official art in the PC game still reads "Battle Hymn").
Quote from: Barthheart on July 14, 2017, 11:16:38 AM
The PC game is only $11 CDN :o Fer that price I'll probably buy it just to see it.
The Grog is strong with this one.
Quote from: bbmike on July 14, 2017, 12:08:58 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on July 14, 2017, 11:16:38 AM
The PC game is only $11 CDN :o Fer that price I'll probably buy it just to see it.
The Grog is strong with this one.
Hmmm I read that as "Sucker" but what the hell....
I'm liking this game so far. I'm playing the 1st Day scenario, and the random turns don't bother me at all. It just means that you can't always count on the same phases happening at the same time each "hour". I'm playing as the Union, and on hour 8 of 11, The XI Corps is barely hanging onto Cemetery Ridge, and half of Cemetery Hill is in Rebel hands. The Iron Brigade was shattered on Seminary Ridge, but I've managed to pull back many units before they got crushed.
Devin, Gamble and Calef are protecting the right flank, while what's left of I Corps have formed a line in front of Culp's Hill.
I'm playing on the Intermediate difficulty level.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72144446/Screenshot%202017-07-14%2019.54.34.png)
I agree with Slick Wilhelm. I just started playing, but I find that the random chit drawing process works nicely and does not seem to unduly limit the player's control. Nor do I find the game, so far, too simple for my taste. And I expect it will be a pleasure to play the entire battle in a reasonable amount of time. (For ten bucks, no less.)
Initial thoughts:
Caveats:
- I have never played a Civil War game in my life... ever. :nerd:
- I have liked Shenandoah's previous games very much.
1. Very simple game to get into. There is a quick intro to the rules and then during the first game there are more pointers as to what is happening. I don't feel this is an "intermediate" Matrix game... towards the light side. Think Battle Academy difficulty to grasp.
2. The random chit draw mechanic does not feel limiting at all. Now, I have played a few board games with this mechanic so it's not new to me. It gives a good feel for command restrictions. The random time when you can actually initiate combat is new but again doesn't feel limiting and give some battle chaos feel.
3. It's deeper than it looks at first. High ground is important. Terrain overall is important. You need to plan ahead, as much as random activation will let you, where your units will be and where the enemy will be.
4. Combat mechanics are good... as far as I can tell not being a CW gamer.
5. it's fun and interesting, which is the most important thing in gaming I think.
6. The controls are simple and the interface very easy to use. I had no trouble ordering my units around and understanding where things should and could move/shoot.
There are some bugs still even after the first patch that came out today. The save screen can be overlaid by other the day start screen for instance. Nothing was game ending but just annoying.
For $10 USD it's a no brainer for anyone who like Civil War stuff to pick up. It's a lighter, fun, quick game to play when you want to get your musket and powder gaming on and not strain your brain.
All other games should be as lovely and meditative as this one.
This game is aesthetically dominant.
The price tag is thievery.
I am profoundly jealous that there is no comparable Napoleonic game.
Curious re: longevity, but, given MP (hey, look, real MP from Slitherine -- HUZZAH!!) and the random chit draw, it should have legs.
I LIKE THE GAME AND HAVE POSTED THAT I DO. WHY, IN GOD'S NAME DO PEOPLE PUT UP A PATCH OR HOTFIX THAT I CAN'T FIGURE OUT. I SHOULD BE ABLE TO DOUBLE CLICK ON SAME AND BE ABLE TO PATCH. VERY FRUSTRATING.
I AM NOT COMPUTER LITERATE. BUT MANY OF US ARE NOT.
You're obviously computer literate enough to use CAPS lock.
Quote from: Barthheart on July 14, 2017, 10:03:10 PM
I have never played a Civil War game in my life... ever. :nerd:
You're kidding me! Really? :o
Quote from: Boggit on July 15, 2017, 09:36:42 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on July 14, 2017, 10:03:10 PM
I have never played a Civil War game in my life... ever. :nerd:
You're kidding me! Really? :o
Truth. The period just never interested me.... still doesn't really but this game is interesting enough in it's presentation that I wanted to check it out.
Same with Napoleonic games. Never played one until this year at Origins when paznerde brought his Pub Battles collection. It looked so intriguing in it's presentation I had to play it to see what it was about.
Quote from: Barthheart on July 14, 2017, 10:03:10 PM
I have never played a Civil War game in my life... ever. :nerd:
This makes me sad :(
Quote from: mirth on July 16, 2017, 07:26:49 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on July 14, 2017, 10:03:10 PM
I have never played a Civil War game in my life... ever. :nerd:
This makes me sad :(
No tanks... what can I say. :uglystupid2:
I hadn't played much ACW until about 5-6 years ago. Now it's probably my second favorite period to game.
Quote from: mirth on July 16, 2017, 07:57:31 AM
I hadn't played much ACW until about 5-6 years ago...
This makes me sad :(
Quote from: bbmike on July 16, 2017, 08:46:08 AM
Quote from: mirth on July 16, 2017, 07:57:31 AM
I hadn't played much ACW until about 5-6 years ago...
This makes me sad :(
Not playing Munchkin makes you sad.
Quote from: Barthheart on July 16, 2017, 07:19:24 AM
Same with Napoleonic games. Never played one until this year at Origins when paznerde brought his Pub Battles collection. It looked so intriguing in it's presentation I had to play it to see what it was about.
So, how's Ruchel doing recently? >:D
Quote from: Johnnie on July 15, 2017, 08:38:32 PM
WHY, IN GOD'S NAME DO PEOPLE PUT UP A PATCH OR HOTFIX THAT I CAN'T FIGURE OUT. I SHOULD BE ABLE TO DOUBLE CLICK ON SAME AND BE ABLE TO PATCH. VERY FRUSTRATING.
I'm computer literate and I'm
still going to wait for the Steam release. ;)
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 16, 2017, 09:35:32 AM
Quote from: Johnnie on July 15, 2017, 08:38:32 PM
WHY, IN GOD'S NAME DO PEOPLE PUT UP A PATCH OR HOTFIX THAT I CAN'T FIGURE OUT. I SHOULD BE ABLE TO DOUBLE CLICK ON SAME AND BE ABLE TO PATCH. VERY FRUSTRATING.
I'm computer literate and I'm still going to wait for the Steam release. ;)
you can use your code on steam, so both of you can play it now :)
What are pub battles?
Quote from: mirth on July 16, 2017, 09:10:09 AM
Quote from: bbmike on July 16, 2017, 08:46:08 AM
Quote from: mirth on July 16, 2017, 07:57:31 AM
I hadn't played much ACW until about 5-6 years ago...
This makes me sad :(
Not playing Munchkin makes you sad.
That's it. I'm ordering the basic set.
Get the Marvel one while you're at it
http://www.worldofmunchkin.com/marvel/
Quote from: Toonces on July 16, 2017, 10:21:17 AM
What are pub battles?
Small foot print games design to be played in a pub. Command Post Games designs.
http://www.commandpostgames.com/pub-battles/
We played Marengo.
http://www.commandpostgames.com/product/marengo/
The map is a piece of art. It printed on canvas! Wooden pieces. 1 page of rules!
Any meeples?
Crap. I should not have looked at those links.
Quote from: Barthheart on July 16, 2017, 12:30:51 PM
Quote from: Toonces on July 16, 2017, 10:21:17 AM
What are pub battles?
Small foot print games design to be played in a pub. Command Post Games designs.
http://www.commandpostgames.com/pub-battles/
We played Marengo.
http://www.commandpostgames.com/product/marengo/
The map is a piece of art. It printed on canvas! Wooden pieces. 1 page of rules!
You forgot to explain what a pub is. :D
Quote from: mirth on July 16, 2017, 12:55:09 PM
Crap. I should not have looked at those links.
Doooooo itttttt!
You hush
BACK ON TOPIC! -- the movement randomization is a little less random than I was worried about. For one thing, combat opportunities are also dealt out randomly, but the attacker can decide when to use his chit once it's pulled.
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 17, 2017, 07:21:56 AM
....but the attacker can decide when to use his chit once it's pulled.
Eh? You have to use it when it's pulled. You can't save it for later in the turn. As the attacker you can withdraw before combat because everyone in contact must fight.
Semi-right both ways: each turn (hour) has an initiative given for one side or the other. (Unsure if that's random or set by the scenario design.) The player who has initiative can save their chip when they draw it to play instead of drawing a chip later.
Being the attacker is partly defined by which pieces in a fight have moved into reaction fire, at the time that a combat chip is played; and whoever played the chip gets to choose bombardment and withdrawal options. But the initiative gives one side more ability to decide when to trigger their combat. (Though even with initiative, combat can't be triggered before that chit is drawn.)
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 17, 2017, 09:57:07 AM
Semi-right both ways: each turn (hour) has an initiative given for one side or the other. (Unsure if that's random or set by the scenario design.) The player who has initiative can save their chip when they draw it to play instead of drawing a chip later.
....
Huh... I haven't seen this possibility.... I have only played the Day One scenario and part of the Campaign though... both as Union...
I'm in Day One of the campaign, and I've seen it at least twice as the confederacy, maybe 3 times. Which this far into the day (at least 9 hours) tells me the Union has had a lot more initiative, lol!
So what does this option appear like? How do you save the chit? I can't believe in the 20 some turns I've played I've never had the options to save the combat chit. It's always just jumped straight to selecting the cannon fire step... what am I missing? ???
No idea why you aren't seeing it. Maybe a bug needed fixing?
Mine was doing the "tutorial" messages and so called explicit attention the first time it happened; well, called explicit attention in two different ways.
If you draw the chit when you don't have initiative, things just go straight to the fighting.
If you draw the chit when you do have initiative, then on that and every other turn afterward (until there are no more chits) the game will ask if you want to play it or draw another chit. If you choose to play it, the game proceeds as usual; if you choose to draw another chit then the game goes back to the bag to randomly draw another chit (which might be yours or your opponent's of course). If the chit hasn't been played before all the other chits are gone, then the chit simply activates as though it was the final chit drawn.
The first time this happened for me, the game also threw up a tutorial window calling attention to what was happening and why.
One of the major drawbacks of the game for me is the random combat chit. If you can save it that would be great and might get me to buy it. Never have seen anyone mention that in any of the videos I've watched though.
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 17, 2017, 11:25:23 AM
No idea why you aren't seeing it. Maybe a bug needed fixing?
Mine was doing the "tutorial" messages and so called explicit attention the first time it happened; well, called explicit attention in two different ways.
If you draw the chit when you don't have initiative, things just go straight to the fighting.
If you draw the chit when you do have initiative, then on that and every other turn afterward (until there are no more chits) the game will ask if you want to play it or draw another chit. If you choose to play it, the game proceeds as usual; if you choose to draw another chit then the game goes back to the bag to randomly draw another chit (which might be yours or your opponent's of course). If the chit hasn't been played before all the other chits are gone, then the chit simply activates as though it was the final chit drawn.
The first time this happened for me, the game also threw up a tutorial window calling attention to what was happening and why.
Thanks Jason... I'll go through the tutorial again to see what I missed.
The game can indeed be saved manually, as well as autosaving.
LOL! I think he meant save the combat chit not the game.
Funny, while I remember reading about "saving the chit", I have yet to be presented with that option. I'm also playing the Day 1 scenario.
Quote from: Barthheart on July 17, 2017, 12:01:56 PM
LOL! I think he meant save the combat chit not the game.
If you mean me, then yes I was referring to saving the combat chit and using it later in a turn.
Quote from: Barthheart on July 17, 2017, 12:01:56 PM
LOL! I think he meant save the combat chit not the game.
:crazy2: I am so :uglystupid2: :-[
OK a patch dropped late yesterday to ix some things... and seems to have broken others.... :buck2:
QuoteVersion 1.03 patchnotes:
- Fixed AI freeze during advance
- Fix rally bug for units during Turn 13
- Clicking on reinforcement icon now properly centers the camera
- Zoom to mouse position
- Live PBEM
Seems like good stuff.... except the reinforcement centering works.. oddly... even overriding where I've click on a currently on map unit to snap to the reinforcement location... :idiot2:
The calendar, located under the Menu button, now correctly shows what happens each turn including when you get what reinforcements AND who has initiative on each turn... which now points out why I, as the Union player, have never been able to choose when to use my combat chit.... the Union NEVER gets initiative in the Campaign.. NEVER! :timeout:
Also Cavalry units, now, are not able to move next to ANY enemy unit to attack them not even artillery standing out in the open... alone... you know... the perfect cavalry target! #:-)
I'll have to shelve this game until there seriously wok out the bugs... too bad 'cause it sure is pretty... and actually got me to play ACW game... :(
I am totally failing to understand the point to having cavalry in this game at all, even before the patch. Other than "there was cav at Gettysburg" so we need to have it. Cav doesn't charge anything; doesn't interdict supply (of which there is none); there is no fog of war so they aren't useful for scouting; you can't use them as very fast infantry, to run up somewhere, dismount and shoot; there are no map points accruing VPs to run up and grab early.... You can't even effectively use them as a quick response defense.
The hard fact is that cavalry doesn't fit into the game mechanics. Or not very well. I'm honestly glad the Rebs don't have any to speak of on the first day!
Yeah, I decided to just refund the game while I still had a chance (89 mins played). It has a unique engine, but the engine doesn't really fit the combat or maybe vice versa. I may rebuy if the dev team assigned by Matrixlitherine manages to haxor the game engine into providing a better experience, but until then, no.
(This is aside from the prevalent number of bugs on release day.)
I agree that the lack of FOW is disturbing in the Civil War. This was a huge factor back then and made the use of cavalry so important.
Quote from: Anguille on July 21, 2017, 06:17:53 AM
I agree that the lack of FOW is disturbing in the Civil War. This was a huge factor back then and made the use of cavalry so important.
I can understand it from a boardgame perspective. That wouldn't be a gamebreaker for me. BUT IT SURE DOESN'T HELP THE CAVALRY BE LESS USELESS!! :knuppel2:
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 21, 2017, 06:12:10 AM
Yeah, I decided to just refund the game while I still had a chance (89 mins played). It has a unique engine, but the engine doesn't really fit the combat or maybe vice versa. I may rebuy if the dev team assigned by Matrixlitherine manages to haxor the game engine into providing a better experience, but until then, no.
(This is aside from the prevalent number of bugs on release day.)
I gave it a shot. Even setting aside the bugs (game simply stopped playing during a CSA AI phase), the game has nothing to do with ACW combat. It
looks great. Has a very kriegsspiel appearance. But nothing about how it plays emulates anything about ACW combat. Ultimate General is a much better choice for anyone looking for a light ACW game - just be sure to pause when giving orders.
Definitely refunding this one. Matrix/Slitherine need to bury the remains of Shenandoah and move on.
Quote from: Barthheart on July 20, 2017, 09:09:41 PM
I'll have to shelve this game until there seriously wok out the bugs... too bad 'cause it sure is pretty... and actually got me to play ACW game... :(
Nah, you didn't. You played a half-finished generic wargame on a really nice map of Gettysburg.
Quote from: Anguille on July 21, 2017, 06:17:53 AM
I agree that the lack of FOW is disturbing in the Civil War. This was a huge factor back then and made the use of cavalry so important.
Not at that scale (Gettysburg) once all parties had arrived; Lee and Meade knew exactly what who had what and where.
No cav charges unless Napoleon has trained them.
I would hope that they have Buford's division as the first stumbling block that the Rebs run into on Day 1. After that, the only other possible action for Cav at this battle was running Stuart around the flanks of the Union as had been intended.
You boys must be hurtin' for some good PC gaming, it took a look of all of 5 minutes to realize that this game was going to be a dog. You all been chattering about it for 5 pages worth. :D
Quote from: GJK on July 23, 2017, 07:53:40 AM
Quote from: Anguille on July 21, 2017, 06:17:53 AM
I agree that the lack of FOW is disturbing in the Civil War. This was a huge factor back then and made the use of cavalry so important.
Not at that scale (Gettysburg) once all parties had arrived; Lee and Meade knew exactly what who had what and where.
So, mid-afternoon July 3rd or so? ;D
^ And thanks to, um, those newfangled cav al ree things?
Quote from: Bardolph on July 24, 2017, 02:04:44 AM
Quote from: GJK on July 23, 2017, 07:53:40 AM
Quote from: Anguille on July 21, 2017, 06:17:53 AM
I agree that the lack of FOW is disturbing in the Civil War. This was a huge factor back then and made the use of cavalry so important.
Not at that scale (Gettysburg) once all parties had arrived; Lee and Meade knew exactly what who had what and where.
So, mid-afternoon July 3rd or so? ;D
Sure. Lee had him outnumbered in the center and as planned, JEB was to hit the flank/rear while Pickett's fresh division hit the center (you know all this already). The arty barrage had little/no effect and Pickett was mauled crossing the large field and JEB...well, he was one of those 'new fangled cav al ree things' that didn't do their job.
Wow, for $10 I'm surprised at all the cynicism. It's certainly no "Scourge of War:Gettysburg", but I don't think it pretends to be, either. For what it is, it's pretty good, IMO.
I'll probably rebuy some time once the bugs are ironed out, and the cav are given something useful to do.