Polaris Sector - another new space 4x

Started by RedArgo, November 02, 2015, 04:48:47 PM

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Tanaka

Quote from: solops on March 28, 2016, 11:33:13 AM
I quit playing DW, the best 4x ever, because it got too easy to beat on all levels. One had to set up a hugely imbalanced game for it to be interesting. This game has even more of what I want than DW did, particularly the tactical battles. I have no doubt that after I learn the system and the game's idiosyncrasies it will lose its charm. That is true of every PC game I have ever had. If this game gets an AI upgrade and a few minor UI adds, it will be my all time favorite. BTW if you bring only 200 fighters to a late game fight, you might be toast. Also, build some AA platforms and they will gnaw their way through a wall of fighters. And the effectiveness of missiles can go to zero against the right ship designs,which, in turn are underpowered against other strategies....at least so far. I still have a few techs to go and I don't have BBs yet. A lot left to learn. Great fun!!!

Here is your game changing AI upgrade. Best DW mod out there!

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3647528

sandman2575

Quote from: Beowulf on March 28, 2016, 01:17:39 PM
You guys just made me install SotS II, which I had untouched in my Steam library since purchase.

SotSII is great. It's my 3rd most played game in my Steam library, in terms of total hours. I've always found the AI decent enough --usually pretty aggressive in terms of expansion and enough to give me a challenge, at least!

I personally love the way it handles tech -- with randomized variables from one game to the next, possibility of failing to research techs or going 'over budget,' or possibility of early breakthroughs. Much more interesting than the standard "rush to plasma weapons" or what have you.

Jarhead0331

Quote from: sandman2575 on March 28, 2016, 03:15:35 PM

I personally love the way it handles tech -- with randomized variables from one game to the next, possibility of failing to research techs or going 'over budget,' or possibility of early breakthroughs. Much more interesting than the standard "rush to plasma weapons" or what have you.

Not only that, but the tech UI is extremely elegant, unique and well thought-out.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


panzerde

Another really neat aspect of SOTS/SOTSII is the different FTL drives. It's pretty unusual to find a 4X where the different races travel across space in entirely different ways.
"This damned Bonaparte is going to get us all killed" - Jean Lannes, 1809

Castellan -  La Fraternite des Boutons Carres

bob48

Ha! Doug, that made me think of the 'Bloater Drive' in 'Bill, the Galactic Hero' by Harry Harrison :-))
'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'

'Clip those corners'

Recombobulate the discombobulators!

solops

Quote from: Tanaka on March 28, 2016, 02:36:47 PM
Quote from: solops on March 28, 2016, 11:33:13 AM
I quit playing DW, the best 4x ever, because it got too easy to beat on all levels. One had to set up a hugely imbalanced game for it to be interesting. This game has even more of what I want than DW did, particularly the tactical battles. I have no doubt that after I learn the system and the game's idiosyncrasies it will lose its charm. That is true of every PC game I have ever had. If this game gets an AI upgrade and a few minor UI adds, it will be my all time favorite. BTW if you bring only 200 fighters to a late game fight, you might be toast. Also, build some AA platforms and they will gnaw their way through a wall of fighters. And the effectiveness of missiles can go to zero against the right ship designs,which, in turn are underpowered against other strategies....at least so far. I still have a few techs to go and I don't have BBs yet. A lot left to learn. Great fun!!!

Here is your game changing AI upgrade. Best DW mod out there!

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3647528

Sorry, but I have been using that since the first version showed up. It certainly extended DW's life span, but The game is still just too much for an AI to handle well.
"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - King Henry II of England
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. - Winston Churchill
Wine is sure proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. - Benjamin Franklin

panzerde

Dammit, now not only do I have to go back and play SOTSII, I have to go back and re-read a bunch of Harry Harrison!  ;D
"This damned Bonaparte is going to get us all killed" - Jean Lannes, 1809

Castellan -  La Fraternite des Boutons Carres

solops

Quote from: sandman2575 on March 28, 2016, 03:15:35 PMI personally love the way it handles tech -- with randomized variables from one game to the next, possibility of failing to research techs or going 'over budget,' or possibility of early breakthroughs. Much more interesting than the standard "rush to plasma weapons" or what have you.

EVERY game that has R&D should use the SOTS/SOTS2 model for R&D! And it is so simple. I really do not understand why they don't. All it requires is some extra game balancing. Not getting Point Defense as a tech always made things interesting.
"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - King Henry II of England
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. - Winston Churchill
Wine is sure proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. - Benjamin Franklin

sandman2575

Quote from: panzerde on March 28, 2016, 03:56:02 PM
Another really neat aspect of SOTS/SOTSII is the different FTL drives. It's pretty unusual to find a 4X where the different races travel across space in entirely different ways.

Agree with Jarhead that the UI is nice and streamlined. Maybe not quite as elegant as Endless Space, but to me SOTSII is still a much more engaging game.

SOTSII has a bunch of nice touches that I haven't seen replicated elsewhere -- like the different drive techs that panzerde mentions, the way it handles tech. Small thing, but I love how the prototype for any ship you design costs several times more than what the production ships will cost. Gives you an incentive to sometimes hang on to those older model designs that are much cheaper -- a nice trade off to have to make.

Also love the fleet manager which allows you to pre-position your fleets on 3 different planes, high, mid, and low. Makes for some nice tactical decisions in terms of ship placement.

Game has flaws, to be sure, as all games do (and it was indeed literally unplayable at launch). But I just wish more space 4x games would be willing to take some chances with design and implementation the way SOTSII or Distant Worlds did.

undercovergeek

in Polaris - is it possible to mine planets that dont belong to you - i see a need for minerals coming up, but im flying past a lot of uncolonizable planets with huge mineral deposits

republic

Quote from: sandman2575 on March 28, 2016, 04:48:42 PMSmall thing, but I love how the prototype for any ship you design costs several times more than what the production ships will cost. Gives you an incentive to sometimes hang on to those older model designs that are much cheaper -- a nice trade off to have to make.

I agree completely, I hope Distant Worlds 2 steals that mechanic.  It is a great touch of realism that fits well with today's armed forces.  More F/A-18's vs F-35's, more Arleigh Burkes vs Zumwalts, etc.

mikeck

Quote from: undercovergeek on March 28, 2016, 05:53:17 PM
in Polaris - is it possible to mine planets that dont belong to you - i see a need for minerals coming up, but im flying past a lot of uncolonizable planets with huge mineral deposits

You have to colonize them. As you discover technology you will also uncover domes and other applications that allow colonization. The dome allows desert and ice colonization. There's another that allows volcanic down the line
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson

ghostryder

#117
I'm a few house into it. I have about 10 planets colonized and I micromanage all of them. Not sure what your saying about forced automation. I don't choose the tech. I pick 3-4 applied sciences that lead to stuff i like and set it about 60-40 applied to fundamental. That way I am always researching several things. I don't use fighters and am fine. Once you get PD and anti fighter weapons, if the AI brings fighters near you, they get ripped. They are important but i don't agree that they are a battle winner or must have mid game on. Early game yes.

It's not DW but what is. I can't fault a game for not being better than the best one around. It does some things much better and others not as much. It's definitely deeper than Moo4 which i also enjoy.

Seems I'm one of the few people that just enjoys a game for what it is and not what I think it should be. All those Moo2 fans screaming about Moo3 and 4 having Real time combat for instance. Polaris is a good game. You can automate but not forced to. The same strategies are "forced" on you as any 4x including DW: colonization, winning tech race, etc. It follows the standard 4x formula...but they all do


Your barely getting started with 10 planets. Wait until you reach 75 or 100, your be begging for a management screen. Also, you've yet met a built up empire-when you do, if you don't have those fighters your going to be in trouble. Speaking of, you better love fighters, because it's all the AI really spams. Carriers and fighters. The AI reminds me of the campaign AI from total war, which is really not a good thing. The AI will often retreat when they realise they can't win. Which is often. Good, right? Wrong. Instead of retreating back the way they came, they randomly choose which direction to go. Including into your own space.  Whenever you catch them? They retreat. It's an excercise in frustration, and while I can appreciate the idea of raiding, it makes it obvious how they cheat; They do not run out of fuel. Ever.

I'm not expecting it to be distant worlds either nor have I ever said that. What i do expect is the game to do what the devs promise--and it simply does not. You Will be automating your planets once you expand--there simply isn't a practical way in game to do otherwise. Compared to Master of Orion: MoO  plays so much simpler. BUT the few things you CAN do are real choices. You can decide what you do, when you do it and how you do it. And multiple ways are possible to advance and win. Polaris Sector has one way and the automation does it for you. As the game progresses you are more and more a watcher only.

The game absolutely needs tons of work. We need automation in ship design--there is none. Your forced to design or stick with the starter designs which are badly inferior, We need auto explore. We need a Empire managment screen...not a planet list--there's a huge difference between the two. We need a completely redone A.I. -- We need a complete rebalance of all ship components. Battles should not simply be rock, papers , sissors...not in a 4x game. Everything degrading down to how many fighters you have. We need far better customization at game start-- currently you start in the same exact local every time on each map choice, as does the A.I.---and there's little in ways to define each. As it is the map choices break down to being canned scenerios that never change.

There is potentional here---if the above is addressed the game could be a lot of fun but as it sits the only thing it manages to do really well is frustrate the crap out of me.


Ian C

Quote from: ghostryder on March 28, 2016, 09:42:16 PMWe need far better customization at game start-- currently you start in the same exact local every time on each map choice, as does the A.I.

OK, I was ready to dive in before I read this. Could anyone clarify this? Do you start at the same position, exactly same planet, same everything
or are the starting positions the same but the universe is different?

Barthheart

I've started 3 games so far. Each time I played the Humans... mostly only ever play the humans in these things....
So I started on the same planet called New Earth. The system name was different every time as were the planets in the system with me, although there were always only 2 other planets.... seems you only get a max of 3 planets per system.
The location of the system in the galaxy was different every time. I chose Spiral Galaxy Sa(?) with 800 stars and 8 opponents each time.
The galaxy make up was different each time. System names in different places, starlanes different, discoveries different, AI's in different places etc.

So I'm not sure what GhostRider is talking about.....  ???