Attn: Rekim- Carrier

[GJK]

I know that Rekim was/is enjoying Carrier, so I thought I'd see if he'd pop in here and make a comment or two about what he thinks of this gem.....

So I got on a Pacific War kick.  A buddy of mine bought me "Fires of Midway" and my son and I are enjoying it (but boy, it uses a LOT of cards and needs LOTS of table space!).  The one thing that I really miss in that game is the carrier flight deck operations.  It just doesn't have any air op's other than 'launched' or 'not launched'.  So what game models this wonderfully?  Carrier.  Carrier, GOD what a monster.  I remember playing it about what, 15 or 20 years ago?  And I really, really, really enjoyed it.  I want to give it a go again. 

I had created a VASSAL module for it a few years back and the easy way to get a game going would be with it.  Carrier is perfect on VASSAL since there's not a lot map scrolling and the chit-pull system works nicely in VASSAL.  But as mentioned elsewhere here, I really enjoy fingering counters.  Plus, I have my new wargame table with a table-top lid that covers the playing area nicely - as I posted about in the "REAL Wargaming" thread.  That makes for a perfect opportunity to get this game on the table again for the first time in 15+ years. 

I have 3 (yes, 3) copies of Carrier.  I have my copy that I played all those years ago.  I have a 2nd copy that someone, somewhere gave me.  Most likely someone who joined my Combat Mission website(s) and said that he didn't play boardgames any longer and knew that I did.  I wish I could acknowledge who that was.  My third copy is unpunched and will remain so.  I think perhaps this same person sent that copy along as well but I may of purchased it used from somebody, I don't recall.

Currently, I have the three countersheets from the unpunched copy under plexiglass on my new game table.  From the other two copies of the game (which both have all of the counters fallen out of the flimsy counter trays that came with the game) I am laying out the mish-mash of counters on top of my "template".  I'm going to pick the best looking counter from both sets in order to put together a quality set of all the playable counters that came with the game. 

Once I have a solid set of counters, I will baggie all the extra's and then will sort the new set into Plano compartment trays.  As I'm sorting, I have a sharp pair of scissors on the table and will trim the side nubs off each and every counter.  Victory Games used side nubs on their old counters, unlike countersheets of today that have the nubs in the corners where a nicely rounded corner rids those. 

My final obsession with the counters will be to round the corners with the Oregon Laminations 2mm corner rounding tool that I mentioned here previously as well.  Oh, and I'll use my thermal label maker to make labels for the Plano compartments marking what the contents of each compartment hold.

Next, it's on to the rules and the charts.  As I do with all of my favorite board wargames, I am converting the rulebook to ebook (.chm) format.  Yes, I've found the pdf of the rules and it is from that that I copy and paste the text into my .chm maker where I then format the text and add links.  Why the ebook instead of just using a pdf?  Because the .chm ebook opens faster and has far stronger search capabilities.  And I'm anal about my wargaming.

Finally (maybe) it's the charts.  I want nicely laminated charts.  I have a heat laminator.  The charts that came with the game won't laminate.  Well, most of them will but I would have to cut the fold-out charts and on at least one side of one of the fold-out charts, a chart goes over the center line meaning it would get cut.  Can't have that.  Plus, there's errata for the charts.  So, I will be recreating the charts so that they fit on standard 8.5x11" stock card and have them printed at the printers where I will then laminate them.  I'm thinking of also putting them in a binder with tabs that have the charts sorted in a more logical order.  Oh, and I want to add rules references to each chart.

After all of that, I'll be ready to play the thing.  That is, unless I decide to yet again redraw the map.  I've done it once for the VASSAL module but I made that for the screen, not for print.  I would have to redo it at 300dpi to get a good print out of it.  I could then enlarge the hexes a bit and hell, if I do the map I might as well recreate the counters.  Shit - I'll never actually play this thing, but I will sure enjoy the game!

[Toonces]

Interestingly, I too am pulling this bad boy out again.

What I'd love to see you make, instead of just another re-hash of the regular map, is a Midway variant of the map.  There is a Midway variant floating around (I'm sure you've seen it) that uses the stock map, so you have to suspend disbelief regarding where all of the land and such is.  But you need the markers on the map to control the enemy forces.  What I'd like to see is a proper all-ocean map with Midway on it, and the markers superimposed where they need to be.

That would be epic.

In fact, google provides:  http://grognard.com/variants1/carrier.doc

[GJK]

Ah yes, I was just reading some AAR's about the Midway variant today and had that exact thought - making the Midway map.  It certainly wouldn't be a very challenging thing to do.  And knowing me, I'll wind up recreating the original Carrier map as well since I'll already have the hexgrid and Carrier displays layed out.  There's a Spaniard (I think, latin otherwise) that did recreate the map and the charts for print but alas, they are all in Spanish/Latin.  The charts are wonderfully done and I was planning on emulating (ripping off) his style on those.  The map looks like he may of used my redraw of the map but then recreated the carrier displays using b&w WWII photos and some other nice touches.  May be a bit too busy for me though; I like (or have really grown fond of) the clean and simple look of the original.

How well do you know the game?  Will be a re-learning experience for you?  I remember a lot of the mechanics but I know that it will be a constant dig into the rulebook while I go from scenario to scenario.  Hence the new ebook version of the rules; I like to add color examples of play and cross-reference the hell out of the thing to try and make it as user friendly as possible.  Of course I'll make it available to all that want a copy.

Have you watched the video replay series that Enrico did?  (See: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/videos/thing/1679/carrier).  It's a good refresher and comical at the same time.  He gets so frustrated in the first 3 or 4 video's of the series but seems to pick it up for the 2nd half of the video's.  It's a good watch.

[GJK]

Oh, and consider doing an AAR for us here.  I'll consider doing the same!

[Rekim]

VG Carrier rocks. No doubt about it. It is my favorite solitaire wargame so far, and have quite a number of them in my collection.

One of the best things about Carrier is that you don't need to remember all of the rules in order to play it. Once you understand the way the game works it is totally feasible to set it up and start to play by following the sequence of play chart regardless of how fuzzy my memory is. Each step in the sequence of play refers to a section in the rulebook. The genius of the Carrier system is that ALL of the details you need for a step are contained in the (single) referenced section...no flipping back and forth through the rulebook required.

That said, it is a bit of a burden to work through the Carrier rulebook that first time. It has a great staged approach, similar to the old Squad Leader rulebooks, in that each chapter of the rulebook includes a scenario at the end of it. This is a great feature as it allows you to learn the game in bite sized chunks. The scenario's at the end of each chapter are essential to learning the game...but not very fun to play. I really don't think it would have been possible for me to learn the game by reading the rulebook cover to cover and cut straight to the standard scenario at the end. The staged scenario were critical to hashing out all of the various systems that are used. It took me about two months to read all of the rules and play through the 6 learning scenarios. A big investment. It really paid off in the end though. The standard scenario is always a blast (usually from my carries cooking off), and despite being a little bit on the complicated side, it is easier than most to through down any time and start playing due to that excellent play sequence chart.

Did I mention that the VASSAL module is pretty sweet too  ;D

btw GJK, in addition to the updated Carrier Map there have been some efforts to update the counters in recent times. You can find some good leads in the Carrier forum on BGG, not the Files area where you'd expect them.




I was planning to play my new copy of B-29 Superfortress on my next day off (Monday   :P ) punched the counters last night, but think I'll switch to Carrier. I'm overdue so am glad for the diversion.

[Rekim]

I'm still waiting for the online printshop Zazzle to have a sale on poster printing so I can get me a copy of the updated Carrier map on the cheap. I uploaded the image file uploaded to my account a few months ago. Think it was going to cost ~$45 to print and ship at full price. A bit much when I paid $50 for the game (bought on Wargamer.com  ;) ). They have 50% off sales regularly, so hopefully this year it will happen.

I love pimping wargames

[Grimnirsson]

Each step in the sequence of play refers to a section in the rulebook. The genius of the Carrier system is that ALL of the details you need for a step are contained in the (single) referenced section...no flipping back and forth through the rulebook required.

It's been a while I had the rules in hand, but this sounds like they are similar to the rules for Totaler Krieg 1/2, a game I love and consider one of the two games with rules that in my book come really close to the perfect RB - the other one is ASL :)

Man, all this talking about Carrier...you guys can be a pain in the neck...must resist...no time...must resist :P

@Gary,

And I'm anal about my wargaming.

hehehe...feel at home with that ;)

[GJK]

Ok, that is a really nice version of the map.  Give us a tip when Zazzle has a sale because I would definitely spring for a copy of that map.  Those new counters look great - much better than what I had started to come up with for an updated VASSAL module.  I'll dig up the info about those on the geek.  My only disappointment would be not getting the counters properly mounted.  Maps come out great as mapsheets but counters on the back of cardboard inserts and then cut by hand just don't do it for me.  Is there an online service that would print counters on a die-cut countersheet at a semi-reasonable price?  I sure would like to find such a site or retailer.

Andreas, you mention Totaler Krieg and the great rulebook.  That is the other kick that I've been on recently; WW2 ETO.  After 30 years, I finally groked the rules to Third Reich and while I think it's a great "game", it's not much of a historical simulation (as many have noted) and doesn't give a lot of historical "what if's".  So I'm looking at other possibilities.  I picked up a copy of SPI/TSR's final release of WW2: ETO and I have the rewritten/updated rules for it but haven't had the time to digest those yet.  I also have WiF Final Edition and I cringe whenever I open that rulebook so I wanted a "classic" WiF and got a copy from of WiF 4/5 from a member here recently but again, haven't had the time to look into that one.  Also got Advanced Third Reich but mostly so that I can use that gorgeous map when playing classic Third Reich.  Tell me about Total Krieg 2.  I actually have a copy of the original game but never learned nor played it.  I hear that the distinction between that version and what is out now is quite extensive.  How was the learning curve for TK2? 

My sprucing up of my copies of Carrier continues.  I've been working on it all night.  I really can't wait to actually start playing it.  I miss that game.  I just hope that my aged brain can absorb the rules again like they once did!

[Grimnirsson]

Gary,

Tell me about Total Krieg 2.  I actually have a copy of the original game but never learned nor played it.  I hear that the distinction between that version and what is out now is quite extensive.  How was the learning curve for TK2? 

Can't tell you much :P
Seriously, we owned and played Totaler Krieg 1st ed and loved it. Our thoughts went into a review you can read here:

http://wargamecenter.wordpress.com/2010/05/06/review-totaler-krieg/

Then we preordered Totaler Krieg 2 Axis Empires and Dai Senso (the PTO game using the same unique approach TK does for ETO) and after it arrived we played through the first two training scenarios. In the meanwhile some review copies arrived (which we always put on the gaming table first because if a company sends us a copy of a game they don't want the review to go online in 5 years ;)) , life got busy and nasty ( my dad was diagnosed with cancer, is now after surgery ok, though) and we made a lot of trips to great places (http://wargamecenter.wordpress.com/battlefields-and-museums/), so TK2 was again on the shelf. We finished a game recently that was also sent as a review copy and while waiting for the final rules to go online (to see if what we didn't like is still there) and preparing the review we wanted to get back into TK2, this time without distraction by other games.

So we again played the training scenarios and everything went fine - it's a great experience and lots of fun. We had no problems starting TK2 with our experience of the 1st edition and sure it's not the same game, there are differences, but more in the way of fine-tuning things, not in the way of revamping the system. Totaler Krieg is super-elegant in its mechanics, has extremely well written rules and although it's a true consim, it's quite easy to get into the game by following the SoP. You get some rules to read before a certain scenario, then some while you play it and it just moves along nicely and learning this game is fun. It has a low counter density, a great map, many cool mechanics, a great but easy diplomacy system and many possible ways of 'what if' based on the card plays. You can go strictly historical or decide completely for yourself within the given WW2 context. And the idea to have the same game engine covering the PTO and even allowing for a combined grand-strategy level game someday, well we don't need another game on ETO/PTO for a long time I'm sure :)

I found some interesting notes about the game here, you might want to check them out:

http://dugsreports.blogspot.de/2011/11/why-im-learning-axis-empires-totaler.html

Hope that helps :)

[Toonces]

Everytime I've broken out Carrier I've only gotten as far as scenario 5 before I've stopped. 

I think I'm ready to push through and figure this game out once and for all.  It has everything I like it in, so I'm sure the effort will be worth it.

[GJK]

Everything I've ever heard or read about Carrier states just that; a bit of a tough learning curve but once you do break through to the full scenarios, the payoff is awesome.  I don't think that the game itself is complex at all - it's just remembering what table to use when mostly.  As I go through the rules making my ebook, I think I'll start to piece together a players aid that expands upon what already comes with the game - Rekim, tell me if that is even needed because maybe the chart and SOP that comes with the game is already quite thorough, I just don't recall.

[Rekim]

Everything I've ever heard or read about Carrier states just that; a bit of a tough learning curve but once you do break through to the full scenarios, the payoff is awesome.  I don't think that the game itself is complex at all - it's just remembering what table to use when mostly.  As I go through the rules making my ebook, I think I'll start to piece together a players aid that expands upon what already comes with the game - Rekim, tell me if that is even needed because maybe the chart and SOP that comes with the game is already quite thorough, I just don't recall.

You got it right Gary, the game is not all that complex. It includes large number of CRT tables, an exceptional number given the size of the game. However, all of the CRTs are easy to understand and use. It's just a matter learning the mechanics of each table prior to playing the big game. It can be frustrating to find a particular CRT sometimes. Many of the tables are not labled all that well, and can find myself going cross-eyed with having to sort through so many tables.

Because the CRT's are relatively straight forward and the sequence of play aide does such a good job of pulling the game together I'm not sure that there would much benefit from making a player aide. You are likely the better judge of this if you have some idea's to work with.

The rulebook is very well written, however I did find it was lacking some of the most basic information, which caused me some confusion when first learning. One example I can recall; the game includes several sets of counters with identical information on the front in back - each set uses a different colour. No where in the rulebook did it mention that the white on black set of counter should be used for the sequence chits, and the playing piece summary in the rulebook depicts the sequence chits as being white on black. Other than being a bit vague on which counters to use the rest of the manual is well organized and detailed.

[Rekim]

What a coincidence. Zazzle has posters on for 50% off at the moment. Just use the coupon code: PSTRPRNT2013

I have no idea how long this will last. I just ordered a copy of the upgraded Carrier map for $15.38

"carrier_map_updated.jpg", from 91.44cm x 60.96cm, Value Poster Paper (Matte)
Qty.PriceSubtotal
1 x$30.75$30.75
-50%-$15.38
$15.37

----------------------------------------------------------
Subtotal:$15.37
Shipping:$6.89
Tax:$0.00
Total:$22.26

I downloaded the map (files) from the Geek where it can be downloaded as a multi-volume ZIP file. Here is a link to the assembled map file for download from my Google drive. Believe it weighs in at ~32MB

https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B5xRPAxWQ3_UYzBGaHpTTlN0Smc&export=download

[GJK]

I'm downloading the map now.  I hope he made it at 300dpi so that it's sharp!

[GJK]

Well unfortunately, it's only at 72dpi and uses a scan of the original map along with his recreated carrier displays and charts.  Even at $15 I think I'll pass.  The map was easy enough to recreate once so I'll most likely do it again at some point (but at 300dpi and probably slightly enlarged hexes).  But let us know how yours comes out; I'm sure that it'll look pretty darn good, even at 72dpi.