http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4445133 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4445133)
March 22! :bd:
Released today....surprised not a lot of mention....seems a little steep for my use at $39....and not really sure about it yet. Will be monitoring the feedback.
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/676/details/Desert.War.1940-1942
Price does seem steep.
Looks nice though.
This one doesn't really do anything for me...maybe I'll catch it on sale or with a coupon?
The page description is a mixed bag for me. On one hand, C&C and Electronic Warfare and Special force assets in a WW2 game? (...really, EW assets!? Okay, I'm intrigued! That's something usually only found in super-hardcore wargames.) And the Air/Naval missions seem fairly robust.
On the other hand, HEXES ARE THE GREATEST INVENTION SINCE SLICED BREAD EVARRRR! WE SHALL HAVE HALF OF ONE OF THE SHORT PARAGRAPHS BE ABOUT THE PURPOSE OF HEX GRIDS OR EVEN JUST GRIDS AT ALL IN A WAR GAME! :o ...uh, I... I... I don't really need to be sold on map grids in a wargame "to help regulate unit placement, movement, and combat." BUT LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT HOW YOU WILL REDISCOVER SURPRISE WITH THIS INNOVATIVE WEGO SYSTEM AS THOUGH NO OTHER GAME YOU PLAY HAS SUCH A CAPABILITY! ADAPT OR DIE NO FURTHER CHOICE IS GIVEN IN DESSEERRRRRT WAAAARRRGGHHHH!
#:-)
QuoteWEGO by its nature is about the Player's ability to plan for and manage chaos; to find solutions to perceived challenges to accomplishing the mission with the tools at hand.
In this way, every decision you make must be carefully considered. Learn to think three moves ahead and outsmart your opponent!
...like, chess? :bd:
I'll still be keeping an eye and an ear out on the system. Parts of it sound very promising. O:-)
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on March 22, 2018, 06:34:40 PM
This one doesn't really do anything for me...maybe I'll catch it on sale or with a coupon?
I'm thinking the same
For the first time in ages, I think I'm interested in a Matrix game. Seems to fit the right complexity for me, in between the the more streamlined games and the Grigsby stuff. I also like wego, AIs seem to do better with that mode, and I love the theatre.
Its not as though I'm fending off all those competing operational desert war games with a stick, I'm surprised this hasn't found more appeal.
Quote from: dinsdale on March 22, 2018, 08:55:14 PM
For the first time in ages, I think I'm interested in a Matrix game. Seems to fit the right complexity for me, in between the the more streamlined games and the Grigsby stuff. I also like wego, AIs seem to do better with that mode, and I love the theatre.
Its not as though I'm fending off all those competing operational desert war games with a stick, I'm surprised this hasn't found more appeal.
Doesn't matter...its about war and a game ... therefore will have to buy it it regardless of time to play it or even the immediate need for one of those.
I played around with the free version and it was quite interesting. My least favourite part of WWII ie the desert but it will get bought so no use me pretending to myself I won't.
Played the old V4V games and to be honest in a hex and counter game always struggled with wego as it was difficult to visualise where things were going to end up or where you had moved what to. So be interesting to see how this one works for me.
for those who have TOaoW 4 how does it compare to this scenario?
here is a YT series i watched recently of that scenario to check the map and level of detail
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGB6RkFB7ZmPAfP98DoSPh1IuO0J_c_a8
As outlandish as this may sound - the graphics for me just don't tick ma box.
The counters look sunken, flat, over-sized for the hexes and look odd when stacked...I want them standing prompt. WitE, WitW, TOAW IV...that's what I want my games to look like now.
I was interested because I love WEGO system, but the price is to high. War in the desert isn't that interesting. If we get some good user created scenarios I will buy it. I'm hoping for some arab-israeli scenarios.
Quote from: salazarus on March 23, 2018, 05:26:56 AM
I was interested because I love WEGO system, but the price is to high. War in the desert isn't that interesting. If we get some good user created scenarios I will buy it. I'm hoping for some arab-israeli scenarios.
That would be good. But I was hoping the user created scenarios could step outside the desert. That Pacific scenario they used to have on their web site looked fantastic but some posts I have seen on the matrix site suggest the editor may not be as flexible as I first thought. No doubt DLC is a factor in that and there would be a need for some special rules around amphip landings.
Pacific island war is under represented at an operational / grand tactical level
Quote from: Zulu1966 on March 23, 2018, 08:33:08 AM
Pacific island war is under represented at an operational / grand tactical level
Agreed. I found the Pacific game much more interesting. Hope they do something with that down the road.
I think you can't add different terrain types. You can switch textures, but nothing more. Pacific will be hard to make. There is thread about upcoming editor:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4429535
Quote from: Zulu1966 on March 23, 2018, 08:33:08 AM
Quote from: salazarus on March 23, 2018, 05:26:56 AM
I was interested because I love WEGO system, but the price is to high. War in the desert isn't that interesting. If we get some good user created scenarios I will buy it. I'm hoping for some arab-israeli scenarios.
That would be good. But I was hoping the user created scenarios could step outside the desert. That Pacific scenario they used to have on their web site looked fantastic but some posts I have seen on the matrix site suggest the editor may not be as flexible as I first thought. No doubt DLC is a factor in that and there would be a need for some special rules around amphip landings.
Pacific island war is under represented at an operational / grand tactical level
I've been really, really hoping for a good all-forces sim of the Solomons campaign for most of my life. There have been decent sims of the air/naval aspects but the ground war, if it exists at all, is just an add-on bit because you have to have that too to make the air/naval battles meaningful.
Failing that, a good sim of the land battle for Guadalcanal would catch my attention.
I am shocked at the luke-warm reception this game is getting with respect to its subject matter. From AH's Afrika Korps on, the North African Campaigns have been among the most popular of consumer wargaming subjects. The subject retains its appeal for me: WWII, mobile warfare, Germans v. Brits; tanks, tanks and more tanks. I guess tastes have changed.
Its not the subject matter for me, the looks of the game and current price is what is holding me back right now...just doesn't grab me enough to jump in...maybe some day, especially if positive reviews come in and during a sale.
Too niche and too limited for the price. If it were $19.99, I'd probably go for it.
I'm fully happy with the setting, I just have other things to try out for now.
Quote from: Johnnie on March 23, 2018, 05:28:42 PM
I am shocked at the luke-warm reception this game is getting with respect to its subject matter. From AH's Afrika Korps on, the North African Campaigns have been among the most popular of consumer wargaming subjects. The subject retains its appeal for me: WWII, mobile warfare, Germans v. Brits; tanks, tanks and more tanks. I guess tastes have changed.
I'm starting to think that grogheads is filled with former wargamers as opposed to active, enthusiast wargamers. Back in the day, we all would have gone apeshit for a title like Desert War. Now, we seem to find the tiniest detail warranting a pass. $40 for a wargame is too expensive? Really? Since when? I remember paying $50 for Operation Crusader back in 1994(?) and I thought it was a bargain.
I don't mean to call individuals out, and I am very much a "to each his own" kind of guy. But, geez, fellas. We're supposed to be supporting wargaming developers, are we not?
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on March 23, 2018, 06:10:03 PM
Quote from: Johnnie on March 23, 2018, 05:28:42 PM
I am shocked at the luke-warm reception this game is getting with respect to its subject matter. From AH's Afrika Korps on, the North African Campaigns have been among the most popular of consumer wargaming subjects. The subject retains its appeal for me: WWII, mobile warfare, Germans v. Brits; tanks, tanks and more tanks. I guess tastes have changed.
I'm starting to think that grogheads is filled with former wargamers as opposed to active, enthusiast wargamers. Back in the day, we all would have gone apeshit for a title like Desert War. Now, we seem to find the tiniest detail warranting a pass. $40 for a wargame is too expensive? Really? Since when? I remember paying $50 for Operation Crusader back in 1994(?) and I thought it was a bargain.
I don't mean to call individuals out, and I am very much a "to each his own" kind of guy. But, geez, fellas. We're supposed to be supporting wargaming developers, are we not?
To each his own....I have no issue spending money on games, own plenty more expensive than this.....but I don't feel compelled to spend $40 on THIS particular wargame. Nothing what I have seen interests me enough, just doesn't grab me. I don't think there is anything wrong with having that opinion and no I don't feel compelled to support a specific game just to support every wargaming developer.
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on March 23, 2018, 06:10:03 PM
Quote from: Johnnie on March 23, 2018, 05:28:42 PM
I am shocked at the luke-warm reception this game is getting with respect to its subject matter. From AH's Afrika Korps on, the North African Campaigns have been among the most popular of consumer wargaming subjects. The subject retains its appeal for me: WWII, mobile warfare, Germans v. Brits; tanks, tanks and more tanks. I guess tastes have changed.
I'm starting to think that grogheads is filled with former wargamers as opposed to active, enthusiast wargamers. Back in the day, we all would have gone apeshit for a title like Desert War. Now, we seem to find the tiniest detail warranting a pass. $40 for a wargame is too expensive? Really? Since when? I remember paying $50 for Operation Crusader back in 1994(?) and I thought it was a bargain.
I don't mean to call individuals out, and I am very much a "to each his own" kind of guy. But, geez, fellas. We're supposed to be supporting wargaming developers, are we not?
I probably wargame more in a month than you do in a year. And I spend plenty in support of devs. Sorry if an honest appraisal of a game doesn't sit well with you.
Quote from: mirth on March 23, 2018, 06:31:49 PM
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on March 23, 2018, 06:10:03 PM
Quote from: Johnnie on March 23, 2018, 05:28:42 PM
I am shocked at the luke-warm reception this game is getting with respect to its subject matter. From AH's Afrika Korps on, the North African Campaigns have been among the most popular of consumer wargaming subjects. The subject retains its appeal for me: WWII, mobile warfare, Germans v. Brits; tanks, tanks and more tanks. I guess tastes have changed.
I'm starting to think that grogheads is filled with former wargamers as opposed to active, enthusiast wargamers. Back in the day, we all would have gone apeshit for a title like Desert War. Now, we seem to find the tiniest detail warranting a pass. $40 for a wargame is too expensive? Really? Since when? I remember paying $50 for Operation Crusader back in 1994(?) and I thought it was a bargain.
I don't mean to call individuals out, and I am very much a "to each his own" kind of guy. But, geez, fellas. We're supposed to be supporting wargaming developers, are we not?
I probably wargame more in a month than you do in a year. And I spend plenty in support of devs. Sorry if an honest appraisal of a game doesn't sit well with you.
Mirth, have you played Desert War 1940-1942? I have, and I think it's a worthy title for anyone interested in the Western Desert theater of operations. If you're not interested, that's fine. But my beef is with people who wave off a game like this for something as trivial as how the counters look. The actual game play is very good! Sorry for sounding like an evangelist for Brian Kelly, but he is a really dedicated developer, and a nice guy. I wish him huge financial success with this game.
I haven't played it, but I also don't appreciate being called out as someone who doesn't play wargames. I play face-to-face board and mini games on a weekly basis. I own and play dozens, if not hundreds, of video wargames. If I want to give an opinion on a new game, I don't need you calling me out as someone who doesn't play games.
Poking fun at the odd marketing text choices aside ;) , I'm sure I'll get it eventually. There aren't many games from Matrix I HAVEN'T eventually gotten, some in multiple editions across 20 years. (I'm thinking specifically of Panther Games, which I dutifully followed over to LnL publishing as though I was mesmerized by their shapely décolletage! Which again I've barely even touched! ... ........ ....apparently different parts of my brain were working on different metaphors there.)
Look, what we need is a solid AAR. Who wants to volunteer? Heck, maybe I'll do it.
(...did I just talk myself into buying the game sooner rather than later? I'm still distracted by that prior metaphor, aren't I? #:-) :hide: )
I hope the game's great and does great but I agree with Grim and Mirth, I'm not going to buy an OK game just to support developers otherwise all we will have are lots of OK games. If this game is really good it'll be posted here, honestly, and will get the support it deserves. And I LOVE the North Africa Campaign logistics and all. I wish Decisive Campaigns or War in the West had a full 1940-43 campaign to play.
http://www.wargamer.com/reviews/desert-war-1940/ (http://www.wargamer.com/reviews/desert-war-1940/)
Yep, that review sold me! O0
That UI looks awful.
Then again, most Matrix games have awful UI.
The game is having some trouble with false flags (I hope!) from anti-viruses (like my Avast but not restricted to that) during install.
Now for good news: I'm reading Slick Wilhelm's tutorial for the game (a pdf provided with the game and accessible via the usual Matrix front-option screen), and I already love this system. :smitten: :smitten: :smitten:
Someone needs to write them a better description on its Matrix store page -- I stand by my humorous ribbing of it -- but this game is full of squee. Any grogs should seriously look into detailed reviews of it, at least. Already an early contender for Reader's Choice Wargame 2018.
Quote from: JasonPratt on March 24, 2018, 08:26:56 PM
Already an early contender for Reader's Choice Wargame 2018.
Based on what? Sounds like you still haven't actually played the game yet based on your AV issues and reading the documentation?
Based on reading the documentation, which I'm still doing. Early contender in this case means I think it has real potential. It's a deep system, a little fiddly (as with any deep system), but with lots of tooltips for explaining information.
Whether I'll actually nominate it later (or agree with a nomination) remains to be seen -- it might be a buggy mess for all I know. I remain very impressed in principle so far. I'm sure I'll go into details later. It's about 9pm here and I want to poke around in the actual program a little before bed.
I agree with Jason so far. I have only played thru Slick Wilhelm's tutorial, but I like the presentation very much so far. "Deep" is an accurate description of the system. Lots of choices, and all seemingly on point. Interface easy and comfortable. More to follow after I play it awhile.
I will qualify Johnnie's statement about the interface: it's easier if you learn at least some of the hotkeys and combine those with mouse moves and clicks.
Quote from: JasonPratt on March 24, 2018, 08:53:26 PM
Based on reading the documentation, which I'm still doing. Early contender in this case means I think it has real potential. It's a deep system, a little fiddly (as with any deep system), but with lots of tooltips for explaining information.
Whether I'll actually nominate it later (or agree with a nomination) remains to be seen -- it might be a buggy mess for all I know. I remain very impressed in principle so far. I'm sure I'll go into details later. It's about 9pm here and I want to poke around in the actual program a little before bed.
Thanks for that Jason, I played the free version at the time and rather liked it then, and the underlying concept indeed is an intriguing one. Do post here as how you like it once you have a good few hours under your belt. No H2H AARs though before you've got the the DC Fall Gelb AAR going on first 8)
Ha, no promises there!
I'm looking forward to getting back into it today, although I'm not sure how much time I'll have (if I'm off this afternoon to watch one or two movies with the Bro. Or get him into a game this week perhaps while the wife and kids are gone!)
I did want to report that I actually dreamed about this game last night, which amused me greatly -- and seems a good sign about how much I like it! Apparently part of my head was comparing it on one hand with the Decisive Campaigns engine, and on the other hand with a game that doesn't exist yet but which my brain REALLY REALLY REALLY WANTS TO EXIST! Namely a turn-based game where we can zoom in on the positioning of the units like in SD44 (except even better). My guess is that I was wishing for someone to adapt Panzer General to PG's own fantasy descendant the Fantasy Wars / Elven Legacy engine.
Incidentally, I should clarify that anything from the Campaign Series team released this year automatically gets a wargame of the year nomination from me. ;)
So since my brain didn't have anything real for a third comparison last night in my dreaming, this arrives this morning: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=21965.msg0#new
...AM I LEGITIMATELY A PROPHET Y'ALL!!? :D :smitten: :D :smitten:
(Although I suppose technically a Tunisia adaptation was released earlier. Still, a good reminder of the system's existence.)
Dreaming about games is definitively A Good Thing :bd:
Thanks for your kind words, we're definitively working very hard towards a fun and historically accurate Vietnam game.
Shot and recorded material for an AAR yesterday but didn't get it edited together in time. May be able to have it edited and uploaded by tonight. First ep is coming soon tho. (No multiplayer yet, maybe later.)
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on March 23, 2018, 06:57:30 PM
Quote from: mirth on March 23, 2018, 06:31:49 PM
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on March 23, 2018, 06:10:03 PM
Quote from: Johnnie on March 23, 2018, 05:28:42 PM
I am shocked at the luke-warm reception this game is getting with respect to its subject matter. From AH's Afrika Korps on, the North African Campaigns have been among the most popular of consumer wargaming subjects. The subject retains its appeal for me: WWII, mobile warfare, Germans v. Brits; tanks, tanks and more tanks. I guess tastes have changed.
I'm starting to think that grogheads is filled with former wargamers as opposed to active, enthusiast wargamers. Back in the day, we all would have gone apeshit for a title like Desert War. Now, we seem to find the tiniest detail warranting a pass. $40 for a wargame is too expensive? Really? Since when? I remember paying $50 for Operation Crusader back in 1994(?) and I thought it was a bargain.
I don't mean to call individuals out, and I am very much a "to each his own" kind of guy. But, geez, fellas. We're supposed to be supporting wargaming developers, are we not?
I probably wargame more in a month than you do in a year. And I spend plenty in support of devs. Sorry if an honest appraisal of a game doesn't sit well with you.
Mirth, have you played Desert War 1940-1942? I have, and I think it's a worthy title for anyone interested in the Western Desert theater of operations. If you're not interested, that's fine. But my beef is with people who wave off a game like this for something as trivial as how the counters look. The actual game play is very good! Sorry for sounding like an evangelist for Brian Kelly, but he is a really dedicated developer, and a nice guy. I wish him huge financial success with this game.
lol - I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say this was directed at me then :buck2:
For your information, I would absolutely class myself as a "former wargamer". I still play them - but they probably get maybe at most 10% of my gaming time.
As for "waving off a game like for something as trivial as how the counters look"...sorry pal. That's me. I like nice looking games and that goes for my wargames too.
Edited introductory overview together tonight, but don't have time to upload/compile it. I'll set it to go before work tomorrow, should be available by mid-morning, lunch at the latest.
It lives at a new thread for the purpose here! http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=21988.msg603236#msg603236
For convenience, though, I'll double-post the video here:
Great Video JP...look forward to the next one!
Great video JRP! I do NOT often login, but I thought I would just to say Good Video! Looking forward to the next one!
Keep them coming Jason. O0
Thanks for the compliments, guys! -- I hope I'm being helpful!
I plan to go straight to Ep 1 with the next entry, since I can give practical examples from here out by actually starting the gameplay.
But I'm unlikely to post that up until something this weekend, partly due to Easter Weekend things (I have a lecture to set up on Athanasius and universal salvation), and partly because the final part of Telltale's Batman: Season Two is dropping this afternoon and I plan to spend my next 4 game hours, more or less, finishing out parts 4 and 5.
Great job Jason! I think the developer should put you on their payroll. :notworthy:
Haven't watched the video yet, is DOOM involved ;)
I've had some technical problems with the game, windows popping up when i hover over buttons. After a few minutes it becomes unplayable. Narrowed it down to the orders button on the right, once i click that the windows start appearing. So far it appears to be just that one button, i'll test out the hotkeys soon. Played 5 turns without any problems when i didn't click that button.
I like what i've got to play so far hope its a success.
Jason: Very good. Thanks. Please continue.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 26, 2018, 03:10:26 PM
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on March 23, 2018, 06:57:30 PM
Quote from: mirth on March 23, 2018, 06:31:49 PM
Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on March 23, 2018, 06:10:03 PM
Quote from: Johnnie on March 23, 2018, 05:28:42 PM
I am shocked at the luke-warm reception this game is getting with respect to its subject matter. From AH's Afrika Korps on, the North African Campaigns have been among the most popular of consumer wargaming subjects. The subject retains its appeal for me: WWII, mobile warfare, Germans v. Brits; tanks, tanks and more tanks. I guess tastes have changed.
I'm starting to think that grogheads is filled with former wargamers as opposed to active, enthusiast wargamers. Back in the day, we all would have gone apeshit for a title like Desert War. Now, we seem to find the tiniest detail warranting a pass. $40 for a wargame is too expensive? Really? Since when? I remember paying $50 for Operation Crusader back in 1994(?) and I thought it was a bargain.
I don't mean to call individuals out, and I am very much a "to each his own" kind of guy. But, geez, fellas. We're supposed to be supporting wargaming developers, are we not?
I probably wargame more in a month than you do in a year. And I spend plenty in support of devs. Sorry if an honest appraisal of a game doesn't sit well with you.
Mirth, have you played Desert War 1940-1942? I have, and I think it's a worthy title for anyone interested in the Western Desert theater of operations. If you're not interested, that's fine. But my beef is with people who wave off a game like this for something as trivial as how the counters look. The actual game play is very good! Sorry for sounding like an evangelist for Brian Kelly, but he is a really dedicated developer, and a nice guy. I wish him huge financial success with this game.
lol - I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say this was directed at me then :buck2:
For your information, I would absolutely class myself as a "former wargamer". I still play them - but they probably get maybe at most 10% of my gaming time.
As for "waving off a game like for something as trivial as how the counters look"...sorry pal. That's me. I like nice looking games and that goes for my wargames too.
Yes, I'm afraid it was directed at you, JD. You know that I love you, mostly because we're fellow F1 enthusiasts. But I've invested so much time and effort in beta testing and creating the Player's guide for Desert War that I'm a wee bit sensitive to criticism. More than that, I hate to see you not give it a fair shake. I really believe in this game engine, after being skeptical at the beginning. I think it's as good as the Decisive Campaigns series. Sorry for ruffling feathers, everyone. I'm going to zip it and disappear for awhile to allow some healing.
I'll be starting on a proper Ep 1 soon, but if anyone has the game and wants to take the Italian side on an exhibition mp (and would like to be included in video AARs of the mission), let me know!
My word how refreshing is this compared to what I've been getting from a Youtuber who shall remain nameless :idiot2: Thank you, kind sir.
The new ep is being uploaded and should be ready sometime after mid-morning, before noon!
Check here to see if it's done yet:
Day 2 moves along briskly!
The Italians arrive near Sofafi, and my first overall strategic goal may be developing for 'tomorrow'...