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Digital Gaming => Computer Gaming => Topic started by: Nefaro on January 10, 2018, 11:32:45 AM

Title: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Nefaro on January 10, 2018, 11:32:45 AM
Looks like the next big historical TW will be ancient China, as many guessed.

;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HFeBUlUhh8
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Jarhead0331 on January 10, 2018, 11:36:51 AM
I know there will be some who are very excited about this, but I'm not one of them.

...I could be persuaded to take a second look if there will be bad lip dubbing in cutscenes and special Bruce Lee DLC.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: undercovergeek on January 10, 2018, 11:45:55 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 10, 2018, 11:36:51 AM
I know there will be some who are very excited about this, but I'm not one of them.

...I could be persuaded to take a second look if there will be bad lip dubbing in cutscenes and special Bruce Lee DLC.

im in agreement - i know its a loin moistener for some but by way of school, hobby and reading interests ive never caught on with the China love
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Nefaro on January 10, 2018, 11:51:13 AM
I might have preferred something from the late rennaissance to 'age of reason' period, or another medieval version, first. 

However, I still have doubts as to whether they can create a good Total War in which most units have firearms and the battle mechanics & AI support the way they were used historically. 

Flashbacks to those old Empire and Napoleon battles where the units still kept trying to behave like they were in Rome or Medieval, racing into melee at 50mph and every opportunity.  :-\  SOW they were not.


I would pick up a TW Three Kingdoms at some point, though.  Probably not out of the gate, unless they happened to catch me desperate for a new fix at the time. 
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: JudgeDredd on January 10, 2018, 11:53:10 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 10, 2018, 11:36:51 AM
I know there will be some who are very excited about this, but I'm not one of them.

...I could be persuaded to take a second look if there will be bad lip dubbing in cutscenes and special Bruce Lee DLC.
Like this


Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: undercovergeek on January 10, 2018, 11:55:48 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on January 10, 2018, 11:51:13 AM
I might have preferred something from the late rennaissance to 'age of reason' period, or another medieval version, first. 

However, I still have doubts as to whether they can create a good Total War in which most units have firearms and the battle mechanics & AI support the way they were used historically. 

Flashbacks to those old Empire and Napoleon battles where the units still kept trying to behave like they were in Rome or Medieval, racing into melee at 50mph and every opportunity.  :-\  SOW they were not.


I would pick up a TW Three Kingdoms at some point, though.  Probably not out of the gate, unless they happened to catch me desperate for a new fix at the time.

i think you may be one the guys in disagreement, and if its not you apologies, but CA and Total War did all it ever could for me with Warhammer - without it id be pissed this new one wasnt medieval 3 but because it exists i can manage until medieval 3, if ever
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: JudgeDredd on January 10, 2018, 11:59:14 AM
^Which one? Warhammer 1 or 2? I've only got 1 but I heard 2 is great.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: undercovergeek on January 10, 2018, 12:12:00 PM
i only have 1, but 2 will be the natural next step when the combined maps game is fully fixed if not already
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: bob48 on January 10, 2018, 12:27:41 PM
We used to watch this one as well;

Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: JudgeDredd on January 10, 2018, 12:50:32 PM
I vaguely remember that too - at least the title immediately hit me as something I watched
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Jarhead0331 on January 10, 2018, 12:53:48 PM
This thread has put me in the mood for fried wantons and orange beef.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Geezer on January 10, 2018, 01:00:58 PM
This thread has put me in the mood for suk yung chik.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Sir Slash on January 10, 2018, 01:11:58 PM
This one looks like a Pooh Pooh Platter right now. The trailer looks more like Kung Fu than Total War. 190 CE? What'll they be fighting with stone knives and Mammoth tusks? Still it is FINALLY something China. Hope it's not a 'shamfurl dispray'.  ;D
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on January 10, 2018, 01:14:42 PM
LOINS MOISTENED.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: undercovergeek on January 10, 2018, 01:28:12 PM
Quote from: Gusington on January 10, 2018, 01:14:42 PM
LOINS MOISTENED.

I KNEW IT
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on January 10, 2018, 01:37:30 PM
I can't help myself, I have always enjoyed Asian history, especially Chinese, and this seems a natural fit for the TW series. Plus it completes the circle started way back with the original Shogun TW. Also - we can only hope - I bet a lot of the systems implemented in the Warhammer games will show up here. Lots of reasons to rejoice, not least of which being that this announcement means that Martok was probably correct and Thrones of Brtittania is due out this spring.

LOINS MOISTENED
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: JasonPratt on January 10, 2018, 01:58:09 PM
My body is prepared!

...not my wallet yet, but time to start saving up!  :D :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Jarhead0331 on January 10, 2018, 02:41:06 PM
I'm excited about all the opportunities to make totally inappropriate and politically incorrect Asian jokes.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on January 10, 2018, 02:52:53 PM
Aren't we all?
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: FlickJax on January 10, 2018, 03:36:07 PM
Quote from: bob48 on January 10, 2018, 12:27:41 PM
We used to watch this one as well;



Water Margin was one of my favourites......
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: bob48 on January 10, 2018, 03:51:00 PM
I must admit, corny and stylised though it was, we always watched it.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Nefaro on January 10, 2018, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: Gusington on January 10, 2018, 01:37:30 PM
I can't help myself, I have always enjoyed Asian history, especially Chinese, and this seems a natural fit for the TW series. Plus it completes the circle started way back with the original Shogun TW. Also - we can only hope - I bet a lot of the systems implemented in the Warhammer games will show up here. Lots of reasons to rejoice, not least of which being that this announcement means that Martok was probably correct and Thrones of Brtittania is due out this spring.

LOINS MOISTENED

Have you even played TW Warhammer yet, Gus?

???
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Destraex on January 10, 2018, 04:53:57 PM
The trailer reminded me of fantasy rather than history. Typical of modern Chinese movies.
Could this be Matt Daemon Great Wall style Total War? :P

I must say I am a little excited by this. However I still just don't know if I could play another game of line the troops up with nothing to do but watch the black ants.
I hope the engine comes good for this title. Because it is much more exciting than the "Brittania" one.

P.S. Anybody know when the main historical title will be announced. These little "ERAS" titles are just to line the pockets of CA while they develop the main title. I doubt their will be much innovation for the ERA titles.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Anguille on January 10, 2018, 04:54:41 PM
I am not excited because there's something with the strategic aspect of the TW games that keeps me from enjoying them completely, but it's one of the TW games i will buy on release. The 3 Kingdoms period (and the books!) is an exceptional time period in chinese history with greater than life heroes....it's the chinese Lords of the Rings!
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Destraex on January 10, 2018, 05:07:25 PM
Anguille that "greater than life" Lord of the Rings feel the trailer had is what I was worried about. That instead of finally having a chinese history title that goes beyond all the cheesy movies you can watch. We may just get a cheesy chinese movie game.

I agree that the strategic layer needs updating. I want a larger tactical layer between the battle and strategy layer.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: SirAndrewD on January 10, 2018, 05:12:17 PM
Meh. 

A longer wait for Medieval 3 or Victoria then. 
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Anguille on January 10, 2018, 05:23:27 PM
Quote from: Destraex on January 10, 2018, 05:07:25 PM
Anguille that "greater than life" Lord of the Rings feel the trailer had is what I was worried about. That instead of finally having a chinese history title that goes beyond all the cheesy movies you can watch. We may just get a cheesy chinese movie game.

I agree that the strategic layer needs updating. I want a larger tactical layer between the battle and strategy layer.
The thing is that the books "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" are very old and are the most read books on the planet. It is a huge part of chinese history and culture. It's a classic in chinese litterature and has his heroes and enemies: Cao Cao, Liu Bei and others:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms)

If you want to play an historical game on China, you can get Oriental Empires.  ;)
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: bob48 on January 10, 2018, 05:28:56 PM
Just found it on amazon for the Kindle - £1.49, so that was an instant buy.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Tuna on January 10, 2018, 05:37:55 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on January 10, 2018, 01:28:12 PM
Quote from: Gusington on January 10, 2018, 01:14:42 PM
LOINS MOISTENED.

I KNEW IT

Doesn't take much!
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: undercovergeek on January 10, 2018, 06:09:15 PM
Quote from: Destraex on January 10, 2018, 04:53:57 PM
The trailer reminded me of fantasy rather than history. Typical of modern Chinese movies.
Could this be Matt Daemon Great Wall style Total War? :P

I must say I am a little excited by this. However I still just don't know if I could play another game of line the troops up with nothing to do but watch the black ants.
I hope the engine comes good for this title. Because it is much more exciting than the "Brittania" one.

P.S. Anybody know when the main historical title will be announced. These little "ERAS" titles are just to line the pockets of CA while they develop the main title. I doubt their will be much innovation for the ERA titles.

This is THE NEXT BIG HISTORICAL ONE (TM)
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: CJReich46 on January 10, 2018, 06:18:24 PM
Intrigued.

But how will they do the Battle of Chibi? The famous Battle of the Red Cliffs??  Yellow Turban Revolt? I saw Dong Zhuo in the trailer. But what about others like Lu Bu, or Xiahou Dun?
Fall?  Okay might be doable. I am going to get a New PC this year.

*hopefully*  ::)
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: CJReich46 on January 10, 2018, 06:19:58 PM
double post
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: MengJiao on January 10, 2018, 06:31:28 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on January 10, 2018, 11:32:45 AM
Looks like the next big historical TW will be ancient China, as many guessed.

;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HFeBUlUhh8

Ancient China!  Sign me up!
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: jomni on January 10, 2018, 06:58:28 PM
Long overdue... but... they did the same mistake as Koei.   While the grunts look like proper Han Dynasty guys, the generals are wearing fancy Tang / Song dynasty armour.  Makes them look like a Koei rip-off. 
Rant over.  Hope it turns out well. Definitely buying.  :D
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on January 10, 2018, 08:53:51 PM
^I thought you were going to post something totally against this game announcement!
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: jomni on January 10, 2018, 09:12:55 PM
Quote from: Gusington on January 10, 2018, 08:53:51 PM
^I thought you were going to post something totally against this game announcement!
Grogs can't have everything. As long as the game is fun.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on January 10, 2018, 09:24:45 PM
What have you done with the real jomni?
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Destraex on January 10, 2018, 10:02:17 PM
So this is not one of the total war ERA titles but instead a new main title in a new era? Ok. I must watch again after work.

So it is: Just read the steam page.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Sir Slash on January 10, 2018, 11:28:12 PM
[quote author=jomni
Long overdue... but... they did the same mistake as Koei.   While the grunts look like proper Han Dynasty guys, the generals are wearing fancy Tang / Song dynasty armour. 


Hey! They got Tang on my Han! This game's already turning into a sad Song of an effort.  :DD
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Martok on January 10, 2018, 11:29:00 PM
YES!!!

:notworthy:




Quote from: Gusington on January 10, 2018, 01:37:30 PM
Also - we can only hope - I bet a lot of the systems implemented in the Warhammer games will show up here.
I concur.  Given the mythical/legendary nature of this period of history -- and combined with what we saw in the announcement trailer -- I strongly suspect we'll see a number of elements from the Warhammer titles make their way into Three Kingdoms. 


Quote from: Gusington on January 10, 2018, 01:37:30 PM
Lots of reasons to rejoice, not least of which being that this announcement means that Martok was probably correct and Thrones of Brtittania is due out this spring.
Indeed.  Especially since Three Kingdoms has already been given a release date of Autumn 2018.  Given that, I have to believe Thrones of Britannia is coming in just 3-4 months. 

Giggity! 


Quote from: Gusington on January 10, 2018, 01:14:42 PM
LOINS MOISTENED.
LOINS EVEN MORE MOISTENED

(Okay, probably not, in your case. :P ) 


Still, I am super-stoked for Three Kingdoms, probably even more than I am for Thrones of Britannia -- no mean feat!  I can't claim my knowledge of ancient & medieval Chinese history is deep or extensive, but I've had an interest in (and fascination with) it for some years now. 

I'd prefer a little more historical authenticity than what the trailer showed.  However, given how romanticized the period is, I suspect a certain degree of "fantasy" gamey elements are inevitable.  I'm not thrilled about the prospect, but I can live with it. 




Quote from: Destraex on January 10, 2018, 10:02:17 PM
So this is not one of the total war ERA titles but instead a new main title in a new era? Ok. I must watch again after work.

So it is: Just read the steam page.
To clarify, the "Eras" games *are* the main, larger historical titles (such as Three Kingdoms that was just announced).  CA is calling them that to help differentiate them from the smaller "Sagas" games (like Thrones of Britannia). 

The plan -- as it's currently understood -- is that CA will produce games under Sagas series on a more frequent basis, while the larger Eras games will come out probably just once every few years.  The intent of the Sagas series is to make games focused around a smaller area/period from one of the larger Eras titles.  (Shogun 2's standalone expansion Fall of the Samurai is frequently held up as the prototypical example of what they're trying to achieve.) 


Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: SirAndrewD on January 11, 2018, 12:52:28 AM
I'm still going to buy it and play it.  But I'll grouse about it.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Toonces on January 11, 2018, 07:42:29 AM
Anything that's too fantasy or otherwise porked up will undoubtedly be fixed by the robust modding community.  These games are always worth having even if they're not perfect because they serve as such excellent platforms for modders.

Unless, of course, one finds EA's design decisions "arbitrary" in which case one shouldn't buy it out of principle, despite what the mod community does with it.   ???

8)
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Toonces on January 11, 2018, 07:43:18 AM
I'm sure I'll pick this up.  I'm a sucker for games with gaggles of guys sticking pointy things into each other with violence.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on January 11, 2018, 07:48:30 AM
I am actually more excited if Three Kingdoms has a healthy dose of fantasy...I like me some Chinese mythology. I'll need some reading suggestions, though...besides Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Toonces on January 11, 2018, 07:59:02 AM
Is there a free version of Romance of the Three Kingdoms floating around anywhere?  I can't find one on Amazon, but usually a book this old has a free translation somewhere.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: bob48 on January 11, 2018, 08:30:17 AM
I downloaded a copy yesterday for £1.49 :-)
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Toonces on January 11, 2018, 08:40:29 AM
What version and how is the formatting?  Link please.   :nerd:
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on January 11, 2018, 09:11:16 AM
I need something...more. I wonder if there is just not that much translated to English. Which would be a shame because there's so much English language history available for Japan, etc.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: bob48 on January 11, 2018, 10:06:05 AM
Quote from: Toonces on January 11, 2018, 08:40:29 AM
What version and how is the formatting?  Link please.   :nerd:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Romance-Three-Kingdoms-Luo-Guanzhong/dp/1517191270/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1515683134&sr=1-7&keywords=romance+of+the+three+kingdoms

Its the kindle format that I purchased.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Sir Slash on January 11, 2018, 10:57:57 AM
I'm not really into Romance books.  ::) Or games for that matter either. I like Wargames better. I'm wondering how much CA will bend-over to keep the Asian Market and the PC Police happy by including no negative images of a murderous war for Chinese supremacy. Maybe blame it all on 'Magic' or something. Still looking forward to some more info and videos.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Destraex on January 11, 2018, 05:01:51 PM
For me it will be another nail in the coffin if fantasy starts seeping into CA's historical titles. If the concept artists and "creative" types are allowed to take liberties away from historical advisors and accuracy. I hope they don't think that adding fantasy elements is "innovation". All speculation at the moment. Personally I hope they give the historical crowd more of what they want in terms of military systems and showing how battles were fought, options for strategy and placement. Like supply systems. Rather than hero generals who kill hundreds.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on January 11, 2018, 06:13:55 PM
Ah the age old argument of historical accuracy versus historical fantasy that has been raging around the TW games since the first Shogun game. I feel at home again.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: jomni on January 11, 2018, 08:37:48 PM
I want to see how they can deviate from Koei's rendition. So far the characters look like a copy of Koei. Though they are the same people, CA could have changed some things.  Look at the movie Red Cliff, same generals, but with different look and period-appropriate armour.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on January 11, 2018, 08:40:20 PM
^Love me some Red Cliff.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Destraex on January 12, 2018, 03:03:49 AM
Anybody know a good well researched reference book on the tactics and formations of chinese armies of the period?
I mean something that does discount all the fantasy rhetoric and alleged perfection of the armies of the period and gives a fair dinkum objective study of the day.
For instance I would not read homer to get information on Hoplite tactics.

I have some old WRG book and three osprey books which are very outdated from when the west was first learning about this stuff.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: jomni on January 12, 2018, 03:24:05 AM
Quote from: Destraex on January 12, 2018, 03:03:49 AM
Anybody know a good well researched reference book on the tactics and formations of chinese armies of the period?
I mean something that does discount all the fantasy rhetoric and alleged perfection of the armies of the period and gives a fair dinkum objective study of the day.
For instance I would not read homer to get information on Hoplite tactics.

I have some old WRG book and three osprey books which are very outdated from when the west was first learning about this stuff.

Sun Tzu's Art of War?
...Or any English translation of the period-appropriate books in this list if they exist.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_military_texts
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: AchillesLastStand on January 12, 2018, 01:12:40 PM
I have interest in the game but don't care to much for the setting.

Would have preferred a pike and shot era title{1350-1700} or even a Medieval 3.
I understand though with a pike and shot era game CA would not have been able to use the copy/paste faction, they would have had to put much more effort into it.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: JasonPratt on January 12, 2018, 01:55:45 PM
Quote from: Martok on January 10, 2018, 11:29:00 PM
YES!!!

:notworthy:

Ikr?!  :smitten: :smitten: :smitten:


Now, if they're going to keep doing the "era" projects, too, then after (what amounts to) Viking Invasion 2 (which I am fully for), I'd like to see them turn eventually to the Levantine Microempire period (as in the classic Chariots of War from Matrix). Unit variety might not be great, but ditto for early Viking era Britain, too, so...
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: undercovergeek on January 12, 2018, 02:35:10 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on January 12, 2018, 01:55:45 PM
Quote from: Martok on January 10, 2018, 11:29:00 PM
YES!!!

:notworthy:

Ikr?!  :smitten: :smitten: :smitten:


Now, if they're going to keep doing the "era" projects, too, then after (what amounts to) Viking Invasion 2 (which I am fully for), I'd like to see them turn eventually to the Levantine Microempire period (as in the classic Chariots of War from Matrix). Unit variety might not be great, but ditto for early Viking era Britain, too, so...

dont get too carried away with Martok - if it has unlockable factions his moistness will soon dry up
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on January 12, 2018, 02:53:55 PM
Drying loins is always a tragedy.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: mirth on January 12, 2018, 03:04:26 PM
Quote from: Gusington on January 12, 2018, 02:53:55 PM
Drying loins is always a tragedy.

Tis why the good lord gave us Aveeno.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: undercovergeek on January 12, 2018, 03:23:16 PM
Aveeno - for when the developer locks your factions
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on January 12, 2018, 03:29:42 PM
 :2funny:
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Destraex on January 12, 2018, 07:08:04 PM
Quote from: jomni on January 12, 2018, 03:24:05 AM
Quote from: Destraex on January 12, 2018, 03:03:49 AM
Anybody know a good well researched reference book on the tactics and formations of chinese armies of the period?
I mean something that does discount all the fantasy rhetoric and alleged perfection of the armies of the period and gives a fair dinkum objective study of the day.
For instance I would not read homer to get information on Hoplite tactics.

I have some old WRG book and three osprey books which are very outdated from when the west was first learning about this stuff.
Thanks Jomni. I am more looking for well presented modern studies of the periods tactics interpreted from all the evidence.

Sun Tzu's Art of War?
...Or any English translation of the period-appropriate books in this list if they exist.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_military_texts
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: JasonPratt on January 12, 2018, 07:34:34 PM
Quote from: Gusington on January 12, 2018, 02:53:55 PM
Drying loins is always a tragedy.

Somehow this jpg becomes relevant again!

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/e72brW.png)
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on January 12, 2018, 07:37:48 PM
LOOK OUT
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Sir Slash on January 12, 2018, 11:12:34 PM
If that thing had lipstick on, it could've been my first wife.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: FlickJax on January 13, 2018, 02:58:57 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on January 12, 2018, 11:12:34 PM
If that thing had lipstick on, it could've been my first wife.

LMAO
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: solops on January 13, 2018, 09:21:03 AM
Somehow, this title just does not interest me. I have all of the other total wars. I will probably skip this one until I can get a GOT version for $10. In addition to a lack of interst in the material and overload from all of the other TWs, I have Oriental Empires for a China fix, if I need it. Who know, maybe TW:China will be OK.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Destraex on January 13, 2018, 06:27:44 PM
This title interests me from the standpoint of learning in detail about actual chinese armies of the period and how they worked. Comparing them to western imperial troops from contemporary armies. From the little I have looked at, for the most part. It seems that western armies developed almost in line with most advances the chinese had. Sun Tzu lived around 500bc and Chinese armies of the time would perhaps be comparable to Persian armies of around 500bc? This is the sort of thing I am interested in.

The period in question (three kingdoms) is part of the imperial chinese period and starts around 200AD. Which is kind of funny because it seems to be a civil war between three kingdoms similar to the Roman Triumvirate civil war. The earlier "dynasties" only ruled a tiny part of china in comparison to what china is today.

Technologically the notable exceptions are what I am interested in. The crossbow was one if I recall correctly. I want to continue to explore what a chinese army was, cutting through the myth. Exploring how it operated.
Chinese armies are certainly not as reliable and well disciplined as I expected. But it is early days for my pet interest in ancient chinese warfare.

I guess you guys can start to understand why I am often disappointed by total war titles. I seem to get excited and do a lot of research on what is known of the armies of the period and then find that total war increasingly just does not care about making armies work like they were capable of at the time. Total War does not want to advance and innovate to teach. It instead just wants to wow and engender a hollywood feel with a few light homages to history.

P.S. I am finding it hard to track down good books on ancient chinese army tactics and organisation, battle testing etc.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: jomni on January 13, 2018, 07:00:38 PM
Quote from: Destraex on January 13, 2018, 06:27:44 PM
This title interests me from the standpoint of learning in detail about actual chinese armies of the period and how they worked. Comparing them to western imperial troops from contemporary armies. From the little I have looked at, for the most part. It seems that western armies developed almost in line with most advances the chinese had. Sun Tzu lived around 500bc and Chinese armies of the time would perhaps be comparable to Persian armies of around 500bc? This is the sort of thing I am interested in.

The period in question (three kingdoms) is part of the imperial chinese period and starts around 200AD. Which is kind of funny because it seems to be a civil war between three kingdoms similar to the Roman Triumvirate civil war. The earlier "dynasties" only ruled a tiny part of china in comparison to what china is today.

Technologically the notable exceptions are what I am interested in. The crossbow was one if I recall correctly. I want to continue to explore what a chinese army was, cutting through the myth. Exploring how it operated.
Chinese armies are certainly not as reliable and well disciplined as I expected. But it is early days for my pet interest in ancient chinese warfare.

I guess you guys can start to understand why I am often disappointed by total war titles. I seem to get excited and do a lot of research on what is known of the armies of the period and then find that total war increasingly just does not care about making armies work like they were capable of at the time. Total War does not want to advance and innovate to teach. It instead just wants to wow and engender a hollywood feel with a few light homages to history.

P.S. I am finding it hard to track down good books on ancient Chinese army tactics and organisation, battle testing etc.

You won't learn it from Total War.  I think you should look at Field of Glory to see how the armies actually evolve through the ages in a historical fashion, despite it being rather simplistic.
Pike and Shot / Sengoku Jidai also teach a lot about the evolution of organisation and tactics.

Shameless plug: You are right by saying the Chinese are like Persians.  In my Silk Road mod, they are primarily organised into mixed units of crossbows and halberdiers and function like the Persian Sparabara.  This is good enough to battle against themselves and their nomadic and tribal neighbours (but apparently not against Western heavy infantry).

200 BC (not AD) is the start of the Imperial Period.  This is when the Qin dynasty abolished the Zhou dynasty feudal system as a lesson from the Warring States Period.  They established the classical Chinese bureaucracy run by a scholarly elite which exerted direct control and governorship of all the different provinces (Commanderies).
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Destraex on January 13, 2018, 08:43:11 PM
Field of Glory is a definite no for me unfortunately. I don't believe I would get the movement that should happen from formations in a natural way.

I meant that the three kingdoms wars was around 200ad. Sorry if I was unclear.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: bob48 on January 14, 2018, 06:06:57 PM
I've started on the book, and so far, its not the most gripping read.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Destraex on January 15, 2018, 04:01:43 AM
 I have just started looking into what may be. By taking a quick look at the period immediately before the period that Total War will be depicting.

China Total War (aka three kingdoms)
Just reading about the Han period (25-189bc) (think it was just before the three kingdoms period). They used crossbows extensively of varying sizes. Apparently they were impressive for stopping cavalry charges. Some were so big they could be mounted and were generally used in sieges. But the kicker was that men who could load the larger ones were prized for their strength. These men were considered specialists. I am imagining big ass crossbowmen of hero size with massive crossbows. Smaller hand crossbows were around as well.

However horse barding does not seem to be a thing until the end of the period. I think they must mean until the three kingdoms period. Cavalry of the Han period as far as they can tell did not have shields or barding. Was halberds, small crossbows, bows, swords and spears.

What is interesting is that Han armies were made of conscripts who often trained for an entire year before being put on easy duties like city guard and then finally graduating to the active army. I cannot remember how long Roman training was during the republican period. But I do not think it was this long and if I recall correctly it was more of an annual thing.
Units had names like "smash fo" which were related to historic campaign performance, place they were stationed etc. Just like the later western imperial period roman legions.

The Han armies were often of varying quality. Sometimes having poor leadership and moral. Other times very professional. Not giving the full year of training was blamed numerous times in a row for the Han losing entire armies.

Commanders that failed could expect execution if they returned as could their subordinates.

They used nomadic horse archers and chinese horse archers. Nomadic Horse Archers were highly valued for the northern fighting where the terrain was open.

One description describes three Hsiung-nu eagle hunters by circling and using their bows from a distance (sounds like the cantabrian circle) defeated 30 Han Cavalry.

For those interested in the original terracotta warrior colours. Which today are not seen on the ones originally unearthed. Newly excavated ones though are better preserved with new methods.
https://www.travelchinaguide.com/attraction/shaanxi/xian/terra_cotta_army/colors.htm

The terracotta army dates from the first imperial dynasty which was approx 400 years before the three kingdoms period that will be in total war. However I think further research will show not too much would have changed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terracotta_Army

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a7/fc/3e/a7fc3ef2926c580fdf3eb5514fe2205c.jpg)
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on January 15, 2018, 05:17:20 PM
^Great info, thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: W8taminute on January 25, 2018, 08:31:05 PM
This is a definite must have for me. 

Random fact:  The Suikoden series (from Square Enix I believe) is loosely based off the novel 'The Water Margin'.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Nefaro on May 06, 2019, 01:59:48 AM
Watched a TW: Three Kingdoms pre-release gameplay vid yesterday.  Ohhh, damn!   :coolsmiley:

Had been luke warm about picking it up earlier rather than later, but after seeing the various game mechanics they took from various TW titles, I'm beginning to think I may be up for it.  Seems like they chose a lot of good stuff to implement.  I just hope there's not some hidden BS mechanic going on, behind the scenes, which only becomes noticeable after extended campaign play (as in TW: Attila).  Will have to check out some more aged campaign vids soon.  It certainly looks lovely.

Coming out in about 2 weeks™.

Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Jarhead0331 on May 16, 2019, 09:17:38 AM
High praise indeed...

Quote
Three Kingdoms is an absolutely massive game, but it has a very clear thematic focus on the Three Kingdoms period – specifically the Romance of the Three Kingdoms – and a very clear mechanical focus on individual heroes. The shift bears an obvious resemblance to Crusader Kings II, which uses the lives of individual characters to liven up a game which might otherwise be stuffy. Indeed, Three Kingdoms defuses the impersonal, often boring expansion of empire which has plagued previous games in the series like Rome II with a riveting web of friendships, rivalries and grudge matches. Despite the resemblance, there really is no game which has quite the same combination of elements, nor is there any strategy game that looks this good. Defending a town in the evening light, watching your troops wade through shallow water and sending opposing lines crashing together is a spectacle. It's the best Total War game, the best historical strategy game released so far this year, and its stories are so compelling I'm as excited to read about other people's anecdotes as I am to create more of my own.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/05/16/total-war-three-kingdoms-review/ (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/05/16/total-war-three-kingdoms-review/)
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 16, 2019, 12:09:15 PM
Wow. I know nothing about the Three Kingdoms period and was going to put this off until it went on sale. Now...hmm...
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Grim.Reaper on May 16, 2019, 12:30:08 PM
Glad I pre ordered :)
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 16, 2019, 12:31:10 PM
I'm glad you pre ordered too.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 16, 2019, 12:34:46 PM
FYI PC Gamer's review of this is also up - on my phone so I cannot get the link.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Grim.Reaper on May 16, 2019, 01:14:09 PM
Pc gamer gave it a 78, said not the best or worst total war game

Kind of interesting reviews out so early, release not until next week
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 16, 2019, 01:26:31 PM
Yeah they were definitely not as hot for it as RPS, which is odd.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Jarhead0331 on May 16, 2019, 01:28:57 PM
Quote from: Gusington on May 16, 2019, 01:26:31 PM
Yeah they were definitely not as hot for it as RPS, which is odd.

Maybe it has a gay or transgender army, which would explain the RPS love affair?
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 16, 2019, 02:30:41 PM
...
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: mikeck on May 16, 2019, 02:38:52 PM
Why is preordering better than buying on release? Goodies?

Anyway, moot point for me. I've tried with Shogun but damn...I have absolutely no interest in anything other than European history. Just doesn't do anything for me. Didn't play Shogun until the expansion that let me import the US marines! Sucks because I'm sure it will be great
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Grim.Reaper on May 16, 2019, 02:52:49 PM
Quote from: mikeck on May 16, 2019, 02:38:52 PM
Why is preordering better than buying on release? Goodies?

Anyway, moot point for me. I've tried with Shogun but damn...I have absolutely no interest in anything other than European history. Just doesn't do anything for me. Didn't play Shogun until the expansion that let me import the US marines! Sucks because I'm sure it will be great

Because I also received like 25 or 30 percent off if I remember correctly...if going to buy anyway, why not get cheaper?
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: glen55 on May 16, 2019, 02:58:46 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on May 16, 2019, 09:17:38 AM
High praise indeed...

Quote
Three Kingdoms is an absolutely massive game, but it has a very clear thematic focus on the Three Kingdoms period – specifically the Romance of the Three Kingdoms – and a very clear mechanical focus on individual heroes. The shift bears an obvious resemblance to Crusader Kings II, which uses the lives of individual characters to liven up a game which might otherwise be stuffy. Indeed, Three Kingdoms defuses the impersonal, often boring expansion of empire which has plagued previous games in the series like Rome II with a riveting web of friendships, rivalries and grudge matches. Despite the resemblance, there really is no game which has quite the same combination of elements, nor is there any strategy game that looks this good. Defending a town in the evening light, watching your troops wade through shallow water and sending opposing lines crashing together is a spectacle. It's the best Total War game, the best historical strategy game released so far this year, and its stories are so compelling I'm as excited to read about other people's anecdotes as I am to create more of my own.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/05/16/total-war-three-kingdoms-review/ (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/05/16/total-war-three-kingdoms-review/)

i read this review, and didn't find it very convincing. It reads much more like an AAR of his game and really isn't all that descriptive about game systems. I'm intrigued but want to know more.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: FlickJax on May 17, 2019, 03:47:31 AM
https://www.strategygamer.com/reviews/total-war-three-kingdoms/
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Grim.Reaper on May 17, 2019, 03:54:46 AM
Quote from: FlickJax on May 17, 2019, 03:47:31 AM
https://www.strategygamer.com/reviews/total-war-three-kingdoms/

it's funny that it gets 4 out of 5 stars, but reviewer uses words like besides all its flaws and even with reservations.....as usual, i don't trust any of these reviews:). i know what i am getting with a total war game and i am ok with that,
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: AchillesLastStand on May 17, 2019, 04:26:29 AM
Just a quick heads up for any that are interested, Fanatical has the game for 18% off currently which puts it at 49 bucks. I have used them before so can vouch for them being legit.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Pete Dero on May 17, 2019, 04:41:42 AM
Quote from: AchillesLastStand on May 17, 2019, 04:26:29 AM
Just a quick heads up for any that are interested, Fanatical has the game for 18% off currently which puts it at 49 bucks. I have used them before so can vouch for them being legit.

Fanatical has a voucher for 10% off (use code MAY10) that might also work for this game.


If you live in the EU :

https://www.voidu.com/en/total-war-three-kingdoms

€ 56,99 - 20% (use code GAMINGTIME) = € 45,60


Now streaming Early Access : https://www.twitch.tv/arkcard
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: FlickJax on May 17, 2019, 05:09:25 AM
Fanatical code not allowed on pre-orders
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 17, 2019, 09:13:31 AM
Fanatical is definitely legit and I have used them many times with no problems. They and Green Man are my go-tos. That said, if you can wait a few months, the game will probably be marked down below 49.00.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: mikeck on May 17, 2019, 12:08:53 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on May 16, 2019, 02:52:49 PM
Quote from: mikeck on May 16, 2019, 02:38:52 PM
Why is preordering better than buying on release? Goodies?

Anyway, moot point for me. I've tried with Shogun but damn...I have absolutely no interest in anything other than European history. Just doesn't do anything for me. Didn't play Shogun until the expansion that let me import the US marines! Sucks because I'm sure it will be great

Because I also received like 25 or 30 percent off if I remember correctly...if going to buy anyway, why not get cheaper?

Just 'cause
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Grim.Reaper on May 20, 2019, 06:56:47 PM
downloading pre load now....on the smaller side of around 15gb.  guessing likely some day one patch or unlock process will add to it.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Grim.Reaper on May 23, 2019, 04:45:20 AM
Game is out now....loaded it up for a minute, sure does look pretty.....but that is all the time I had before work.  I'll get some time with it over the holiday weekend.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: FlickJax on May 23, 2019, 04:51:45 AM
Enjoy :) need to wait for a sale here too much coming out soon :)
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: jomni on May 23, 2019, 05:04:14 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on May 23, 2019, 04:45:20 AM
Game is out now....loaded it up for a minute, sure does look pretty.....but that is all the time I had before work.  I'll get some time with it over the holiday weekend.

Won't be able to play as I will be in Japan for the whole of next week.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 23, 2019, 07:58:34 AM
Initial online reviews may be the best I have seen for a TW game ever. Players are even complimenting the AI and Reddit TW pages are full of praise. I may do the unthinkable and buy it over the weekend so I can get the Yellow Turban DLC and the 18% discount over at Fanatical, which prices it at about 49.00. That's if this positive trend keeps up.

But for a TW release day they can't do much better than they are doing right now.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Sir Slash on May 23, 2019, 09:34:27 AM
Time for a new, 'What's Gus Playing' I say. Sub title: Yellow Turbin or Turd-bin?  :bd:  Whadda-ya-think?
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: solops on May 23, 2019, 09:51:16 AM
From what I have read the battles are even further removed from reality than usual for TW. I have no interest in an arcade game masquerading as an non-historical historical war game.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Grim.Reaper on May 23, 2019, 09:59:54 AM
Quote from: solops on May 23, 2019, 09:51:16 AM
From what I have read the battles are even further removed from reality than usual for TW. I have no interest in an arcade game masquerading as an non-historical historical war game.

Is it really masquerading?  Think since it was announced been well known to have a fantasy slant....much different than total war Warhammer?

I get it that some folks may not like it or want it, but sounds like it actually might deliver a decent game experience for what the developer intended.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Jarhead0331 on May 23, 2019, 10:43:28 AM
I think some detachment from historical reality is a good thing for Total War. Take the Warhammer titles for instance...they are some of the best in the series and it was nice to not have to deal with the usual grogs that complain about every historical inaccuracy, as if that somehow makes an excellent gaming experience less enjoyable. Having some element of fiction lets the developers play with the era and be creative, so I think some of that is a good thing and has led to the rejuvenation of the series.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 23, 2019, 12:12:45 PM
Yeah CA has advertised the 'fantasy' mode of Three Kingdoms as an integral feature of the game. I will probably choose that mode for my first playthrough as it looks fun and I know next to nothing of Qin or Han history.

Turd bin...heh
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Grim.Reaper on May 23, 2019, 12:31:51 PM
One thing I failed to mention earlier, when I went into a battle my load time was awesome...under 10 seconds.....if these kind of improvements are throughout the game, makes it worth it to me alone.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 23, 2019, 01:28:43 PM
I read some posts like that about the load times in Reddit too, and a lot of positive posts on the AI and on the game's optimization in general. I don't know which CA team put this together but it is quite the turnaround from releases like Rome 2...
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on May 23, 2019, 01:56:40 PM
Don't you usually lose to the AI in previous iterations, Gus? Do you really want a tougher opponent? 

Think I'll pass on this one.  Ancient China doesn't hold much interest for me.  I still haven't picked up Britannia even.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Jarhead0331 on May 23, 2019, 02:07:15 PM
I'm on the fence right now...but if they release an "Opium Wars" and "Boxer Rebellion" DLC, I will not be able to resist. 
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on May 23, 2019, 02:10:34 PM
If they took it to Victorian times, I'd be all over it.  This Crouching Tiger-Hidden Man-bun stuff?  Not so much.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 23, 2019, 02:27:05 PM
I lose to the AI in Solitaire, so...yes.

I originally was not going to pick this up either but, like other TW games, it has ignited an interest in the time and place and sufficiently moistened my loins.

If an Opium War or Boxer Rebellion mod or dlc is ever put out, I will nerdgasm greater than the world has ever seen.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Jarhead0331 on May 23, 2019, 02:57:07 PM
Quote from: Gusington on May 23, 2019, 02:27:05 PM

If an Opium War or Boxer Rebellion mod or dlc is ever put out, I will nerdgasm greater than the world has ever seen.

I take it back...I hope they never...EVER...release an Opium War or Boxer Rebellion DLC.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Skoop on May 23, 2019, 04:54:41 PM
Why ?  I'd probably buy if they did Boxer Rebellion DLC too.  Otherwise I'm passing at this point.

Total War Victoria is the one I'm waiting for, that'll be day one purchase for sure.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 23, 2019, 08:26:55 PM
Looks like JH is nervous at the mention of my giant nerdgasm. Understandably.

I have been praying for a Victoria TW for over a decade. Closest we ever got was Fall of the Samurai...my favorite TW game.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Grim.Reaper on May 23, 2019, 08:56:36 PM
Not a ton of time tonight, but a few things....

Performance is really great
The UI/graphics best of the bunch
Seems more intuitive (maybe I missed some of this in old versions but various icons and such really provide some good info)
I know some concerned about fantasy angle, but they do have more of a standard mode for people that want more historical...options below.

(https://i.imgur.com/8cExsNb.png)
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: jomni on May 23, 2019, 09:46:06 PM
Two games in one.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 23, 2019, 09:55:52 PM
Sweet, thanks for posting. Keep'em coming!
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: FlickJax on May 24, 2019, 03:02:25 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on May 23, 2019, 02:57:07 PM
Quote from: Gusington on May 23, 2019, 02:27:05 PM

If an Opium War or Boxer Rebellion mod or dlc is ever put out, I will nerdgasm greater than the world has ever seen.

I take it back...I hope they never...EVER...release an Opium War or Boxer Rebellion DLC.

LMAO Jar
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 24, 2019, 07:42:26 AM
Nerdgasm. Embrace it.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: solops on May 24, 2019, 10:38:40 AM
My primary objection is the progressive dumbing down of the battle mechanics. Historical/Fantasy - fantasy is fine. Sure, include it. But make the historical reasonably historical or don't bother....and certainly don't sell it as "historical."
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: solops on May 24, 2019, 10:45:08 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on May 23, 2019, 02:57:07 PM
I take it back...I hope they never...EVER...release an Opium War or Boxer Rebellion DLC.
+1
Yeah, not interested in a bunch of guys fighting in tighty-whities.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Jarhead0331 on May 24, 2019, 10:45:32 AM
Ok...but Total War isn't dumbing down. It has never been billed or advertised as being tactically historically authentic. It is loosely based on historical combat and strategy. It is not, nor has it ever been suggested that the series is striving for any level of serious fidelity. You either have to take or leave the series for what it is...not for what it is not.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: solops on May 24, 2019, 10:50:43 AM
Not entirely accurate. There was a lot of discussion about battle mechanics in the early TW1 days and improvements were made. Sometime in the Rome1+ timeframe they gave up and we started losing things like speed, turning and formation accuracy as well as some detailed control over the troop dispositions and formations. Maybe it was never "accurate" but they were making an effort. A lot of mods tried to fix this trend away from detailed mechanics.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: solops on May 24, 2019, 10:57:11 AM
And I like Warhammer. I play a lot of it for good fun. I accept that it is a cheesy arcade game. I just want better, especially in historical stuff that used to be better.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Pete Dero on May 24, 2019, 11:06:52 AM
I guess this is only available in Europe

use code R/Totalwar for 25% off -> 42,74 €

https://www.voidu.com/en/total-war-three-kingdoms
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Philippe on May 24, 2019, 11:10:12 AM
Since the Romance of the Three Kingdoms on which all of this is based is already a cross between fantasy literature and historical novel (albeit a very old one), Creative Labs' slightly trashy ahistorical approach seems entirely appropriate.  I plan to buy this game and thoroughly enjoy it about a year from now when the major bugs have been squashed and the price has come down a bit. 

In the meantime there's been an announcement that Oriental Empires will be coming out with a DLC covering the Three Kingdoms period later this summer. It takes them about six weeks to get the major bugs out of the system at this point, so I'll be using Oriental Empires to tide me over until I'm ready to buy Three Kingdoms.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Sir Slash on May 24, 2019, 12:31:46 PM
Maybe the many very talented modders will create a whole slew of China-Oriented campaigns from different periods of history.  :bd:
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Grim.Reaper on May 24, 2019, 07:23:04 PM
Some cool moments.....my army was the attacker and advanced on the enemy position.  As I was approaching, the other army offered my commander a 1-1 duel.  I accepted and both leaders met in the middle of the field and had a movie moment of engaging each other.  My general was winning and then the enemy troops watching suddenly charged in to save their general.  Too late, I killed him and then massive battle ensued.

Whether historical or not, great fun and pretty cool.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 24, 2019, 08:11:33 PM
Ah this thread is beginning to smell like TW threads of old.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: JasonPratt on May 25, 2019, 11:15:44 AM
....old nerdgasm smell?

:hide: :wow: :timeout:
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 25, 2019, 01:12:22 PM
That and the back and forth on historicity[tm].
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: mikeck on May 25, 2019, 01:23:09 PM
There can't possibly be any question or confusion about what you are getting with a TW game. Maybe the extent that fantasy plays a role, but not how realistic combat is. Anyone buying a TW game and being disappointed about enemy army composition, AI not reacting well to flanking, short battles or weird specialty units that didn't really exist only have themselves to blame. Mods will inevitably come out called "such-n-such's realistic combat, but the base game will exist. So if you want realistic combat, don't buy it and save the trouble.

Me, I like "medium" realism but eye candy...so a modded TW experience is usually fine
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: SirAndrewD on May 25, 2019, 08:54:31 PM
Quote from: Gusington on May 24, 2019, 08:11:33 PM
Ah this thread is beginning to smell like TW threads of old.

At least it doesn't smell like team spirit.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on May 26, 2019, 11:41:51 AM
You type that like it's a bad thing.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Nefaro on May 26, 2019, 11:46:00 AM
I've been playing a TW:3K campaign in "Records" mode;  the one without the superhero 1v1 style generals.

The campaign side of it is quite expanded.  I'm really enjoying the new campaign mechanics.  The style of play has changed from constant city capture to a slower, more deliberate, pace.  Between the time it takes to muster new troops, juggling your generals and their entourages, and a tighter economy with which to buy things turn-to-turn, your early game forces are more limited than most previous TWs and recover more slowly after battle.  This is a good thing because you (and especially the AI) just can't go pop out a fresh new army in 2 or 3 turns after getting wiped.

Instead of a constant cycle of city capture every few turns, I find myself having to plan ahead more carefully.  This also lends more weight to the outcomes of individual battles.  Slaughter someone's army, and they will be recovering for a longer time.  I like it.

The real-time battles aren't anything special.  You'll be quite familiar with them, much like other TWs.  My complaint, here, is that the troop variety is low.  Especially compared to something like Rome 2, or even Attila.  Some are faction specific, and a few can be unlocked in the research tree, but you'll mostly be seeing the same few units in all factions.  I suppose there was only so much to work with in the setting, so I'll let that slide even though one of my favorite things about gaming ancient warfare, and TW by extension, is the variety of troop types and the combined arms tactics of their use.

I had also recently picked up TW:Britannia on a sale.  For some reason, Britannia just hasn't grabbed me yet.  Despite some of it's innovations.  I'll revisit in time, but TW:3K has pulled me in more thoroughly.  It's campaign features have been a joy thus far, and are more challenging than previous titles. 

There's more of a learning curve for 3K's campaign, so those of you who don't like reading game mechanic info & tooltips take heed.  :nerd:
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Jarhead0331 on May 26, 2019, 12:32:22 PM
I agree with Nefaro's thoughts on the campaign mechanics...definitely expanded and it feels much deeper and with era/region specific flavor. The UI is completely redesigned and I think this is half of what makes the learning curve steeper, especially for seasoned Total War vets...three kingdoms feels very different.

One of the things I'm struggling with is that I feel like I'm fighting personalities, not factions per se and the names of individuals are so foreign, its hard for me to keep straight who is who. Who is a friend, or potential ally and who is an enemy, and I haven't found anything in the UI that makes this very obvious or jump out at me yet. In this regard, Three Kingdoms is also very different from other TW titles. Instead of focusing my strategy to fight the Carthaginians, or the Germanic tribes, I'm dealing with Guan Yu, Zhang Fei and Huang Zhong...huh? Until I get more comfortable with the source material, I'm afraid I'm going to have to kill them all and let God sort them out... >:D
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: GibbyG on May 26, 2019, 02:06:31 PM
Quote from: SirAndrewD on May 25, 2019, 08:54:31 PM
Quote from: Gusington on May 24, 2019, 08:11:33 PM
Ah this thread is beginning to smell like TW threads of old.

At least it doesn't smell like team spirit.

Or even Teen Spirit
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: SirAndrewD on May 26, 2019, 03:07:34 PM
Quote from: challerain on May 26, 2019, 02:06:31 PM
Or even Teen Spirit

I blame the whiskey.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Nefaro on May 26, 2019, 07:53:54 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on May 26, 2019, 12:32:22 PM
I agree with Nefaro's thoughts on the campaign mechanics...definitely expanded and it feels much deeper and with era/region specific flavor. The UI is completely redesigned and I think this is half of what makes the learning curve steeper, especially for seasoned Total War vets...three kingdoms feels very different.

One of the things I'm struggling with is that I feel like I'm fighting personalities, not factions per se and the names of individuals are so foreign, its hard for me to keep straight who is who. Who is a friend, or potential ally and who is an enemy, and I haven't found anything in the UI that makes this very obvious or jump out at me yet. In this regard, Three Kingdoms is also very different from other TW titles. Instead of focusing my strategy to fight the Carthaginians, or the Germanic tribes, I'm dealing with Guan Yu, Zhang Fei and Huang Zhong...huh? Until I get more comfortable with the source material, I'm afraid I'm going to have to kill them all and let God sort them out... >:D

It could definitely use more UI indicators regarding character animosities & friendships.  Most notably in the event pop-up windows pertaining to them.   

Oh, so Dong and Jian suddenly had a spat and had a falling out?  Then show us the damn details in the pop-up too, instead of having to find one of the characters in question and dig down deep into the UI!  Sure, there is a tab on the character details in which you can get some basic info for it, but what a pain to get there manually.

On the other hand it is rather interesting, needing to keep your generals who dislike each other out of the same armies & such.  I'm not yet sure whether that might drive one or both of them to turn on you, or defect to another faction, but I'm guessing that's part of the mechanic.

Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: jomni on June 01, 2019, 07:59:54 PM
Quiet thread...
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: jomni on June 02, 2019, 05:38:02 AM
Just started playing the Sun family. The diplomacy balancing act is quite involved. But I have ignored it for the first several years. :P Anyway, I'll just go to war with all of them then. Haha. Lost a string of battles. :(
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on June 02, 2019, 12:31:20 PM
^Enjoying it?
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: jomni on June 02, 2019, 08:17:55 PM
Quote from: Gusington on June 02, 2019, 12:31:20 PM
^Enjoying it?

Still don't know. Though the key to romance mode is bringing the best generals I guess.
Strategic game should be played slowly. Armies also travel so slow... making interception of invading armies difficult. Army size and count are very limited.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on June 02, 2019, 08:25:40 PM
Hmm thanks...interested in your opinion as you get further.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: jomni on June 02, 2019, 09:31:06 PM
One thing I have to see is if disbanding when not campaigning helps. But mustering takes time too so it's also dangerous. Lack of stationed armies also reduced public order. It's really not your typical Total War game. With many borrowed concepts from Koei (RTK) and Paradox games (CK).
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Sir Slash on June 02, 2019, 10:23:07 PM
This game sure does have more, 'attitude' than other TW titles. Every time I play it tries to give me the name, "Kow Dung".   :timeout:  Just kidding. $60 Is kind of steep for an untried, new game. Still, I've been crying for a TW game set in China so long, I feel bad about turning it down. Undecided.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: SirAndrewD on June 02, 2019, 11:03:25 PM
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 02, 2019, 10:23:07 PM
This game sure does have more, 'attitude' than other TW titles. Every time I play it tries to give me the name, "Kow Dung".   :timeout:  Just kidding. $60 Is kind of steep for an untried, new game. Still, I've been crying for a TW game set in China so long, I feel bad about turning it down. Undecided.

I got Hung Wel, Long Wang, and Enormous Genitals. 
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Hofstadter on June 03, 2019, 04:35:58 AM
Im really enjoying it, my only problem is the battle advisors, if you engage with an enemy, it says "your advisors say this will be a close victory" it straight up tell you you will win if you autoresolve, instead of running on a bet based on force balance.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Sir Slash on June 03, 2019, 10:03:23 AM
Damn SirAndrewD, That sounds like it would make riding a horse difficult. I'm thinking, 'Bang Yu Wang' would be bad too. Gotta say I love the look of this game-- graphics are great.  O0
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: CJReich46 on June 03, 2019, 11:07:35 AM


Maybe this might help? It is the 2010 series. You get an idea about Cao Cao and Dong Zhuo, Lu Bu - The Yellow Turban Rebellion etc.

Also Kings and Generals on You Tube is a good place too.



Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on June 03, 2019, 12:24:36 PM
^Been looking for something like this, thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: CJReich46 on June 03, 2019, 02:08:28 PM
You're welcome Gus.

:bd:
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on June 03, 2019, 02:49:37 PM
There's just so much great history-related stuff out there right now...I need to get better at time management.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: W8taminute on June 03, 2019, 02:53:03 PM
I thought this movie was well done showing the events that led to the famous Battle at Red Cliffs.

Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on June 03, 2019, 03:13:28 PM
That movie has been in my Netflix queue for years :/
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: CJReich46 on June 03, 2019, 08:41:21 PM
Quote from: W8taminute on June 03, 2019, 02:53:03 PM
I thought this movie was well done showing the events that led to the famous Battle at Red Cliffs.



Seen it. LOVED IT.  I may have to see that again.
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Nefaro on June 07, 2019, 02:54:29 AM
Went through a few turns in which my enemies just auto-peaced out on me just when I began invading them.

It was due to how much of a pushover the AI-on-AI vassalize diplo option is. 

The AI bastards began vassalizing other AIs left & right.  The diplo map just went nuts.  One turn I'm at war with a pair of nearly equal sized opponents, and their smaller vassals, but next turn I'm suddenly at peace with them all because some neutral put them under the yoke without a sweat.  On the same turn, my diplo relations with those who just vassalized my enemies tanked.  Very likely due to their newly acquired vassals hating me (after being in a war with them), so the diplo maluses also got slammed on.  WTF?

I expect some chaos but mass vassalizations, which also cause new conflict to erupt where there was none, got out of hand pretty quickly.  It's unfortunate that this crazy flip has briefly sent me to playing other games, as I really do like much of what TW3K is.

Hoping this is just an exceptional anomaly, and not the norm.  Although I did see some complaints about how easily the AI vassalizes others, so perhaps it's not WAI and will get adjusted. 
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: jomni on June 07, 2019, 04:08:46 AM
A lot of the factions including myself are now vassals of Yuan Shao. It's actually quite historically plausible as he led the coalition against Dong Zhuo. Let's see if Cao Cao breaks away and takes him out.

I've left settlements undefended and none of the factions opportunistically attacked them. These AI definitely respect the diplomatic status. Large armies of yellow turbans just passed by my settlements. I'm at odds with the "Independent-Han-Warlords-but-vassals-of-the-Dong-family" faction but they don't seem to be programmed to attack. I guess these insignificant guys are just fodder.

Looks like there's a patch to deal with Yuan Shao
https://www.google.com.sg/amp/s/www.pcinvasion.com/amp/total-war-three-kingdoms-yuan-shao-vassal-nerf/
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: solops on June 07, 2019, 05:59:50 PM
I am interrupting this discussion to say that, as has been mentioned elsewhere, Nefaro's avatar creeps me out.
Well done.
But....bleeesh!
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: glen55 on June 07, 2019, 06:48:11 PM
Quote from: solops on June 07, 2019, 05:59:50 PM
I am interrupting this discussion to say that, as has been mentioned elsewhere, Nefaro's avatar creeps me out.
Well done.
But....bleeesh!

The creepy runs deep in that one.

https://elijahwoodiscreepy.tumblr.com/
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Nefaro on June 09, 2019, 07:57:22 PM
Quote from: solops on June 07, 2019, 05:59:50 PM
I am interrupting this discussion to say that, as has been mentioned elsewhere, Nefaro's avatar creeps me out.
Well done.
But....bleeesh!

Terrific!  *wink wink*

;)
Title: Re: Total War: Three Kingdoms
Post by: Gusington on June 09, 2019, 08:10:24 PM
 :2funny: