Windows 10

[ghostryder]

Microsoft is a totally different company now than from the time I worked there. I'd concider myself old school Microsoft--I wasn't there at the beginning but pretty close to the beginning when they started to get market share, at Win95a. I don't know why anyone would use windows 3.1 at the time, but Win95a was at least funtional--though for games decidely slower. Then of course came windows 95b, and then Windows95c. This was when I began questioning my career choices because this was one huge nightmare from an Engineer's standpoint. There was no SFC system, no version control. A windows 95a owner would have an windows error and decide..."gee I'll just reinstall windows and fix it." But of course he had been updating Windows all along..to effectively be Windows 95c. A new Explorer, A newer network component...pretty much a newer everything---and then than windows 95a reinstall that replace all that or part of that with the original 'old' files---or in other words Windows exploded--literally with 100s of mismatched files---and in those days Windows had no built in tools. We engineers did everything through Dos---and Microsoft's "never lose the costumers' data" policy paired with, "they must be not only satified, but 'very satisfied' when surveyed later or it came back to bite the engineer as a bad mark on his employment record. That was no easy trick, leading someone through renaming and replacing files through Dos who really was just grasping where the desktop was--the only saving grace we had was we Engineers had unlimited time and access to every Microsoft resource to get the job done---and if I had to ferry a free copy of Front Page to insure my surveys were always 'very satisfied' I did not hesitate an instant to press the send button.

That was Microsoft's overall company outlook---very satisfied customers--to the point they's gladly spend 10x the cost of the original Windows disk to keep that one costumer happy. And that was endlessly drilled into us at all times. For us--it was highly stressful-but Microsoft probably also had the best break rooms you ever saw--and out of an 8 hour day you were only required to actually log 6 actively working hours- the rest labled "research hours' was usually translated to banking the 8 ball into the side pocket in the breakroom.

In those days I believe we were the best- and we truely were. Even if AOL wouldn't fix your browsing problem a call to us garanteed a fix. Even if it was an AOL problem. HP printing troubles? Sure. I knew which companies gave good tech support merely by the fact of which costumers were not calling us with their problems. I once hand rebuilt a drive table with a movie producer's assistant to recover the script of "The Blues brothers 2000", to fixing Miss Sugar Britches cam so her porn site remained fluid....boy did the higher ups pick up their headsets and monitor that one.

You moved around--I did everything from excalation to SFC systems in 98 to virus's.

Then the wurm turned. "research' began to get cut down to an hour and half, inner Engineer tools we created were forbidden in lue of outsourced tools developed by third party vendors- the worse being 'clarify' in my memory-which made it neccessary to have 2 computers--one to just keep up with running tech notes of the case- but then even the inner IT department disappeared and was outsourced. I saw the writing on the wall- soon we were going to be outsourced, and I quite roughly 6 months before 4800 other engineers all lost their jobs to some guy on a Camel---around the release of XP----and Microsoft has never been the same since in my view.

That "must be very satisfied" approach that made them number one was replaced by stock market margin calls- The money became the pursuit and the overall goal changed. One only has to look at the awful GUI in Windows 10 to see this. We must put up with that on our portable dumb phones armed with tiny screens and disabled and crippled ARM chips to help keep the dead tech battery alive 30 minutes- but why must we endure that on our desktops? Because one size fits all--like Obama Care--is supposed to be more profitable.

Now--the Engineers that still exist are pretty good. No one can deny DirectX has pretty much ditched and buried OpenGL in every way one can think- which is the main reason Apple sucks now as a gaming option as well as Linux- but the money marketing continues to creep in and influence the end product in degree's highly destructive to the end product. In the early days I was proud to be a member of MS--today it's an embarrassment. I wouldn't ever work there now.

[Huw the Poo]

Good post Ghostryder.  I do want to address one thing you said though:

No one can deny DirectX has pretty much ditched and buried OpenGL in every way one can think

Not really.  It's true that DirectX was more popular for a long time, but that wasn't due to technical reasons, that was due to Microsoft's shitty practices.  OpenGL couldn't be further from "buried" - in fact, it's the basis for Vulkan, which has the backing of industry giants (not least of all, Valve).  OpenGL is very much in the ascendancy.

which is the main reason Apple sucks now as a gaming option as well as Linux

Also wrong.  There are many reasons gaming has not really been viable on Mac and Linux historically.  The two biggest are a lack of compatible engines (now solved thanks to the support of engines such as Unity and Unreal) and lots of middleware supporting Windows only, which is also now becoming less of an issue.

[ghostryder]

By "buried' I wasn't referring to it's popularity...I was referring to it's tech edge. Open GL holds up to perhaps directx 9--but after that it's been buried. It just does not do what DirectX does--and a lot of that is hugely significant. From it's memory managment to what it can get you GPU to do--opengl has fallen far far behind. In every way possible. Before that opengl was generally superior-and has been throughout the years--but they've stagnated in the last few years.

I like Linux as an OS but it's dependancy on Opengl puts it behind the curve for game performance and visuals. Everything else is fine--it's security is and has always been superior and always will be because active x will never go away--people want thier stuff to pass from MS office, to whatever--and those security holes will always be vunerable.

Also, it's not so much game engines like Unity..it's mono---that has solved the cross platform worries. Sure, Unity uses mono -but so does a lot of other comercial engines. Mono can translate any .net language across platforms. So thank mono and the .net languages. You can thank Unity for giving devs very high dollar features that used to cost a quarter of a million to licience for a mere $1500-- but they were not responsible for mono nor the .net languages. That was Microsoft. They dev'd the whole framework. and though C# ain't perfect it's a hell of a lot better than C++ to work with and is by far the most popular today---again a Microsoft creation.

The next time someone mods thier game through an xml file---used now as the defacto-- that again is part of the Microsoft .net Framework.

In fact, if it were not for this framework and mono The Unity Engine would have forever been a small dev tool restricted to apple machines that few gamers would have ever heard of. It was not until they migrated to Windows that they exploded and became the default go to for every wannabe game dev out there--again, that wasn't apple's doing or the opensource community-that was Microsoft---and love or hate them they have done more for gaming 10x 10x a dozen times over more than Apple-Linux or whomever.
As far as Vulkan goes, remember that's just a reworked Mantel API. It's main advantage is, of course, cross platform. That doesn't mean it's technically superior to DirectX but as far as dev's go--big ones like Valve--why use DX12 that only runs on windows when Vulkan works across platforms--including windows?
What i think that will result in is a good chance Microsoft will open source it's code. It recently already did this with Roslyn with .net--it makes since to do it here--or else all that tech advance stuff will be wasted as no dev really need use a DirectX12 backend. But make no mistake---tech wise DX12 smokes Vulken.

[Boggit]

So what  really do need to know is whether I take this "free" Win 10 upgrade as a Win 7 user or not? So far, I'm happy with Win7 - save not the update last September that has borked any safedisc driven game I have on disk - but otherwise happy with it.

As far as I can tell Win 7 is due to be supported until 2020, and given the speed that Win 10 has overtaken Win 8, I don't know if that will be superceded before then, or if MS will be introducing a subscription service, as has been mooted, which will longer term make a Win 10 installation an open ended expense.

When Win 7 runs out, I have a dilemma, although Huw's experience with Linux is encouraging. I don't know how complicated it is though to install it and configure my machine to run all my old Win based games? Maybe Huw can explain how he does that?

With just under 3 months to go to take advantage of the "free" Win 10 upgrade, I want to make an informed decision. I'm happy with Win 7, but I worry if sticking with it is going to make any new games totally incompatible with it, or if I do trade up to Win 10, that my existing software investment in games will be seriously affected? Some pundits are saying Win 10 is a definite improvement, hence my quandary. I really do appreciate your reasoned opinions here. :)

[bbmike]

Is it possible to do the upgrade just to get the license and then re-install Windows 7? That way you would have the ability to upgrade for free whenever you want.

[mirth]

Is it possible to do the upgrade just to get the license and then re-install Windows 7? That way you would have the ability to upgrade for free whenever you want.

I think you could upgrade to Win 10 and also create a Win 10 install disk (or USB stick). You could theoretically then roll back to Windows 7. If you wanted to reinstall Win 10, you could do a clean install from the install media you created. The Win 10 license for upgrades is tied to the hardware you upgraded on, so it should recognize the same hardware and license during a clean install.

Take all of that with a grain of salt. I wouldn't try it myself.

Here are some details on the Win 10 licensing

http://www.redmondpie.com/windows-10-product-key-and-activation-how-to-find-it-and-how-it-works/

[DoctorQuest]

Oops. Mirth beat me to it. At least we're both wrong if that is the case.

My understanding is that you MUST do a true "upgrade" from Win 7 (or win8) to Win 10 FIRST. This means you can't do a "clean" install the first time. You must use your Win 7 (or win8) system to do the upgrade. Then once you are registered as a Win 10 user you can wipe your system and do clean installs anytime after that. Just keep your previous Win 7 key handy.

You should be able to create an install DVD by going here and downloading the media creation tool.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

Scroll down to the "Download tool now" link. Creating a DVD eliminates needing an internet connection to do the install. You still need to get online to activate the silly thing at some point.

So to answer your question I think you can do an upgrade, wipe the system, reinstall Win 7 and still have a legal copy on Win 10 on the shelf for later.

[DoctorQuest]

I may try all this using a virtual machine. That might be a win-win in terms of testing the process and not having to blow away my current Win 7 install.

[bbmike]

I may try it as well. I have a desktop that I'm going to give my dad that came with Windows 7. I upgraded it to Windows 10 but might try rolling it back after recording the key.

[Huw the Poo]

When Win 7 runs out, I have a dilemma, although Huw's experience with Linux is encouraging. I don't know how complicated it is though to install it and configure my machine to run all my old Win based games? Maybe Huw can explain how he does that?

Hi Boggit.  I have to apologise if I've given the impression that I still play Windows games - I don't.  The list of games that support Linux (maybe around 2,000 by now) is already huge, and 65% of my own library is fully playable on Linux.  I don't really miss the games I can't play any more, with just a very small handful of exceptions (Endless Space, Rift etc).

The last time I wanted to play a Windows game, it was Sins of a Solar Empire.  Thankfully it worked perfectly using WINE, a Windows compatibility layer.  WINE works just fine for a lot of Windows-only games, although it can involve some faffing.  There are programs like Play On Linux that can automate it though, with varying degrees of success.

My stance hasn't changed...if the ability to play every single game matters more than the massive catalogue of reasons not to use Windows, then your choice is clear.  But for many people, myself included, there's no reason to use Windows at all.  I consider myself a hardcore gamer and my needs are absolutely satisfied by the Linux gaming market.  You'd be surprised what's available.  Shadow of Mordor, for example.  Tomb Raider.  Alien: Isolation.  All of Paradox's modern games.  More than I'll ever have time to play. :)

If you want more specific advice about playing Windows games on Linux, just ask.

[ghostryder]

Personally if your on Windows 7 there's no compelling reason to go to 10. That's something best done when your getting a new system--and quite frankly when this machine dies I'll still look for a system with windows7--or I'll build one. Right now they are still available (Microcenters give a windows7 cd with every windows 10 system they sell) I really hate the GUI that much on the new OSs.

[OJsDad]

I'm really hate the GUI that much to old to learn a new GUI on the new OSs.

Here ya go Ghosty, fixed your typo.

[Boggit]

@All :)
Thanks for the feedback. O0 My Win 7 came pre-installed, although I was given a key to validate the installation. I did a backup of the system when I first got the PC in case it all crashed, but I haven't reinstalled on this system - ever. So I'm a little nervous of wiping the system after a Win 10 installation, and reinstalling. I suspect that my Win 7 backup is now wildly out of date, but providing I can get my updates/service pack, I guess it is doable. I'm just a bit uncertain, that's all.

@Huw. :) Yes I would be interested in knowing about getting Windows games to work on Linux. O0 I have quite a large software investment over the years, so that is a huge factor in my thinking. I certainly can't afford to replace it with a different version.

[Huw the Poo]

@Huw. :) Yes I would be interested in knowing about getting Windows games to work on Linux. O0 I have quite a large software investment over the years, so that is a huge factor in my thinking. I certainly can't afford to replace it with a different version.

OK, well, I'm not an expert because I don't really do it myself, but the first thing I would suggest is installing the aforementioned Play On Linux because it not only automates installation and configuration of WINE, but also has scripts to install and launch specific games.  The scripts can all be downloaded and run from within the POL client.  Rather brilliantly, it will download and install the Windows version of Steam which, in many cases, is all that's required to play Steam games.  For example, if I want to play Sins of a Solar Empire, I just launch POL, then the Windows version of Steam, then Sins itself as normal.  It just works.  Here is a database of POL scripts.

After installing POL and therefore WINE, you can also launch WINE directly and tell it to install whatever software.  Then your system should be setup to recognise Windows software and if you click to launch it, it should launch via WINE.  Of course, it isn't always that simple and you may need to do a bit of fiddling specific to certain games.  Here is the appdb for WINE.  Find the game you're interested in and you will see users' reports of trying various games along with tips for getting them to work.

There are also other commercially available programs such as CrossOver which do a similar job to POL but cost money.  I've never tried any of them but apparently CrossOver is very good.

Finally, one last option would of course be to dual boot, and this works just fine for many people.  I did it myself for a long time (until I finally got fed up of it).  What I did was boot into Windows purely to play games and nothing else, then I'd boot into Linux to do everything else.  This is a perfectly viable solution if you must be able to play your entire library.  In fact it's pretty much the only solution.  However there may come a day when you get pissed off with having to reboot all the time. ;)

I probably can't be much more help than that since I've never really used WINE very much, but that's a start anyway.  There are countless guides to using WINE around the web so have a look around. :)

Edit: Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy!  You may have a huge games investment, but how much of it are you really ever going to play again?  When I switched to 100% Linux I lost access to literally hundreds of games, but I don't miss more than a handful of them really.  And more and more games support Linux out of the box these days, or at least shortly after launch. :)

[ghostryder]

Here ya go Ghosty, fixed your typo.

ROFL! That too!