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History, Reference, Research, and GrogTalk => Military (and other) History => Topic started by: LongBlade on November 14, 2012, 07:27:17 PM

Title: World War Count?
Post by: LongBlade on November 14, 2012, 07:27:17 PM
Gus remarked that WWIII may be kicking of with Syria.

Personally I think we passed WWIII a long time ago and we're on five or six depending on how we count. To wit:

WWI - Seven Years War
WWII - The Great War
WWIII - The Great War after intermission (1939 - 1945)
WWIV - The Cold War
WWV - African Conflict(s) of the 1990s

Thoughts? Have I left anything out? Included too much?
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: mirth on November 14, 2012, 08:22:20 PM
I'm currently reading a book on the The Second World War in which the author briefly makes the case that the Seven Years War was WWI and the French Revolutionary/Napoleonic Wars were WW2.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: LongBlade on November 14, 2012, 09:00:42 PM
Quote from: mirth on November 14, 2012, 08:22:20 PM
I'm currently reading a book on the The Second World War in which the author briefly makes the case that the Seven Years War was WWI and the French Revolutionary/Napoleonic Wars were WW2.

Napoleon is my blind spot. I have zero interest. But he is probably right.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Gusington on November 14, 2012, 09:03:55 PM
One of The Wife's professors in undergrad remarked (in 1992) that "the next world war will be between religions" and looking at the news and the state of the Mideast right now, it looks like he was right.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Centurion40 on November 15, 2012, 02:05:15 PM
Would one define "world war" as a conflict involving multiple combatants (including at least 2 opposing 'super' powers) covering 2 or more continents?

At this point in time, I really can't see the Chinese or Russians getting drawn into open warfare with the US/NATO.  Not over Israel, not over Syria, not over Iran.  I mean what would be the cost-benefit to the Chinese or Russians?
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Centurion40 on November 15, 2012, 02:16:37 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 14, 2012, 09:03:55 PM
One of The Wife's professors in undergrad remarked (in 1992) that "the next world war will be between religions" and looking at the news and the state of the Mideast right now, it looks like he was right.

The only way that I could see if happening would be if enough Islamic nations had theocratic governments (which appears to be happening), and they all lined-up in lock-step to destroy Israel AND the US/NATO assured the military defence of Israel.  Perhaps a new Islamic Republic of Syria could be the trip-wire leading Iran, Libya, the Palestinian Authority, and Egypt to strong-arm others in a general holy war against Israel and The Great Satan.

Right now, would US government have the stomach/stones to go all-out to support the defence of Israel?  I don't know. 

I would suspect that, if there was another Islamic terror attack, claiming hundreds or thousands of lives in the continental US, the answer would be "yes"... and the conspiracy theorists would be going apeshit.  Especially if there were coordinated attacks in NYC/Chicago/Los Angeles and London/Berlin/Paris.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Gusington on November 16, 2012, 09:43:07 PM
Once Iran gets nuclear weapons all bets are off. But Israel won't allow things to get that far.

The Israelis also have already taken on most of the major Muslim powers in the Middle East and prevailed, without direct military support from the US during those wars.

At the end of the day Israel knows that they have to do the best they can with what they have on their own...they really cannot rely on anyone else too much, even the US.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: eyebiter on November 17, 2012, 02:24:09 AM
The next use of 'canned sunshine' will mark the beginning of World War Three.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on November 17, 2012, 03:04:36 PM
I think your kinda wrong there Gus.
Pakistan has had nukes for years with a rather unstable govenment.  none of those seem to have found their way into terrorist hands.
IMHO Iran isnt as stupid and bloodthirsty as media would like to portray them.  they know that if they have nukes and something goes
boom they are going to be a glass floored parking lot.  MAD still works and proxy fights will be the norm.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: LongBlade on November 17, 2012, 03:09:51 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 17, 2012, 03:04:36 PM
I think your kinda wrong there Gus.
Pakistan has had nukes for years with a rather unstable govenment.  none of those seem to have found their way into terrorist hands.
IMHO Iran isnt as stupid and bloodthirsty as media would like to portray them.  they know that if they have nukes and something goes
boom they are going to be a glass floored parking lot.  MAD still works and proxy fights will be the norm.

All things being equal I'd rather proxy war with them not having nukes.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on November 17, 2012, 03:33:56 PM
but of course.
Im just trying out this moderate thing for a moment.
dont worry.
it will pass.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: LongBlade on November 17, 2012, 04:00:37 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 17, 2012, 03:33:56 PM
but of course.
Im just trying out this moderate thing for a moment.
dont worry.
it will pass.

I see.

My leadership position in Anonymous has been compromised.

BRB, someone's at the doorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrsalk;
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on November 17, 2012, 04:46:44 PM
Kfir 2 this Kfir actual
target eliminated
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Gusington on November 18, 2012, 12:56:30 PM
Well that went better than expected. I would like to know who, exactly, took over Star's account.

Patience and understanding with Iran? Iran not bloodthirsty?? WHATWHATWHAT

Ultimately I have to disagree that MAD policy works with Islamofascists who welcome death. That is illogical, Captain.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: LongBlade on November 18, 2012, 07:36:13 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 18, 2012, 12:56:30 PM
Ultimately I have to disagree that MAD policy works with Islamofascists who welcome death. That is illogical, Captain.

Their belief in the 13th Imam or whatever disqualifies them from being believed when they say they seek a rational outcome.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Staggerwing on November 18, 2012, 07:38:28 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 18, 2012, 12:56:30 PM
Ultimately I have to disagree that MAD policy works with Islamofascists who welcome death. That is illogical, Captain.

AFA the rank and file goes, you are correct. However, something tells me that the higher-ups have probably gotten where they are by taking care of Numero-Uno so they may be a little bit less enthused about giving up the fleeting earthly wealth and power they have amassed in exchange for glorious eternal paradise.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Gusington on November 18, 2012, 07:48:09 PM
Hopefully we won't find out.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Windigo on November 18, 2012, 07:54:30 PM
I actually consider WW2 as the only true world war in modern history. Sure the others had Africa involved but those were strictly sideshows.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: LongBlade on November 18, 2012, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: Windigo on November 18, 2012, 07:54:30 PM
I actually consider WW2 as the only true world war in modern history. Sure the others had Africa involved but those were strictly sideshows.

Ah. A contrarian point of view. (From Windy, no less ;) )

You make an interesting point.

From a truly global perspective WWII might have been the first. But I would consider the Cold War to fit into that category. While not a hot war, it was global and included hot elements.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on November 18, 2012, 11:24:42 PM
lets be a little realistic here Gus.
the Arab masses may believe in the Koran.
the Arab leaders believe in power and they like to maintain it.
therefore MAD actually still works.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Gusington on November 19, 2012, 08:15:42 AM
I will be honest with you...I don't know what the Arab leaders believe in.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: LongBlade on November 19, 2012, 08:28:44 AM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 18, 2012, 11:24:42 PM
lets be a little realistic here Gus.
the Arab masses may believe in the Koran.
the Arab leaders believe in power and they like to maintain it.
therefore MAD actually still works.

Iranians are Persians, not Arabs.

Their system of government is a theocracy.

You might want to read through this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3642984/Will-the-12th-Imam-cause-war-with-Iran.html
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Gusington on November 19, 2012, 11:29:07 AM
Yeah that is what I meant with my last post above too. Call a Persian an Arab and be ready to fight. They find that very insulting. Which is racist in its own right, but a tangent here.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on November 19, 2012, 12:24:27 PM
I know the difference.
I also know I dont really care.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Gusington on November 19, 2012, 01:35:48 PM
Some of the hottest women I have ever met are of Persian descent.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Windigo on November 19, 2012, 02:26:15 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 19, 2012, 01:35:48 PM
Some of the hottest women I have ever met are of Persian descent.

o rly???
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fairfaxunderground.com%2Fforum%2Ffile.php%3F40%2Cfile%3D34102%2Cfilename%3Dbahara_12_facebook.jpg&hash=dfa73379bca1bd1af995d47087de2614c1f39db8)
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Gusington on November 19, 2012, 02:41:52 PM
Yeah! Can't see the above BTW...I hope its an exotic bottle
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Centurion40 on November 19, 2012, 03:33:42 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 19, 2012, 01:35:48 PM
Some of the hottest women I have ever met are of Persian descent.

Any of them named Randi??
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Windigo on November 19, 2012, 05:48:32 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 19, 2012, 02:41:52 PM
Yeah! Can't see the above BTW...I hope its an exotic bottle

She's quite striking
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: CollectCallOfCthulhu on November 19, 2012, 06:09:58 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on November 14, 2012, 07:27:17 PM
Gus remarked that WWIII may be kicking of with Syria.

Personally I think we passed WWIII a long time ago and we're on five or six depending on how we count. To wit:

WWV - African Conflict(s) of the 1990s

Thoughts? Have I left anything out? Included too much?

The Second Congo War should probably be a stand-alone, and take the lead in that title, with the other conflicts playing supporting roles (like the Sino-Japanese 37-41, Spanish Civil and Italo-Ethiopian Wars played to WWII).

tl : dr - Eight nations, 25 armed groups (160k 'troops' under arms) and 5.4 million casualties is a laugh riot that can't be ignored.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Congo_War
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: LongBlade on November 19, 2012, 09:53:09 PM
Quote from: CollectCallOfCthulhu on November 19, 2012, 06:09:58 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on November 14, 2012, 07:27:17 PM
Gus remarked that WWIII may be kicking of with Syria.

Personally I think we passed WWIII a long time ago and we're on five or six depending on how we count. To wit:

WWV - African Conflict(s) of the 1990s

Thoughts? Have I left anything out? Included too much?

The Second Congo War should probably be a stand-alone, and take the lead in that title, with the other conflicts playing supporting roles (like the Sino-Japanese 37-41, Spanish Civil and Italo-Ethiopian Wars played to WWII).

tl : dr - Eight nations, 25 armed groups (160k 'troops' under arms) and 5.4 million casualties is a laugh riot that can't be ignored.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Congo_War

That was my line of thinking. Terrible conflict. Nobody noticed.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: CollectCallOfCthulhu on November 20, 2012, 03:22:32 PM
Don't feel bad that you missed Round 1 (1996-1998) or Round 2, Round 3 is up now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_East_DR_Congo_conflict
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: LongBlade on November 20, 2012, 03:29:15 PM
Quote from: CollectCallOfCthulhu on November 20, 2012, 03:22:32 PM
Don't feel bad that you missed Round 1 (1996-1998) or Round 2, Round 3 is up now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_East_DR_Congo_conflict

Yeah, I was just browsing some headlines and saw some familiar places.

It's like a Zen koan: if a war breaks out in Africa, will anyone notice?
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: LongBlade on November 20, 2012, 03:34:55 PM
In case anyone wants to catch up: http://news.yahoo.com/rwanda-congo-deja-vu-164407501.html

QuoteHistory is repeating itself yet again in eastern Congo. Rebels supported by Rwanda are on the march. Civilians are fleeing. And higher powers appear to be taking sides.

Congo and Rwanda have been at this stage before. First in 1996, then in 1998. Also in 2004 and 2008. The first two conflicts had their roots in Rwanda's 1994 genocide, but now the fighting is mostly over mineral wealth — including minerals used in the world's smart phones and laptops.

And not to be missed - Mali is becoming the new Afghanistan.

QuoteIslamist extremist rebels say they have pushed secular Tuareg fighters from Menaka, their last base in northern Mali.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/mali-tuareg-rebels-lose-last-north-173612412.html

Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Staggerwing on November 20, 2012, 08:07:11 PM
Dollars to donuts those fundis brought in outside talent.
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Windigo on November 20, 2012, 08:17:10 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on November 20, 2012, 08:07:11 PM
Dollars to donuts those fundis brought in outside talent.

makes me wish I was a Minister with a Skunk Works budget of 50+ million
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Staggerwing on November 20, 2012, 08:25:08 PM
Quote from: Windigo on November 20, 2012, 08:17:10 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on November 20, 2012, 08:07:11 PM
Dollars to donuts those fundis brought in outside talent.

makes me wish I was a Minister with a Skunk Works budget of 50+ million

Lemme guess:
SALES PITCH: "Gentlemen! Microdrones can do more than just observe- using pattern recognition and multiple tiny buzz-scalpels a swarm of 4 or 5 thousand can de-flesh a group of hostiles in mere minutes..."
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: Windigo on November 20, 2012, 09:28:55 PM
far more low-tech ... send in some 'advisors' with some real kickass gear
Title: Re: World War Count?
Post by: LongBlade on November 20, 2012, 10:33:19 PM
Carpet bomb the place. I doubt anyone will notice.