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IRL (In Real Life) => Current Events => Topic started by: bayonetbrant on March 14, 2017, 11:39:26 AM

Title: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on March 14, 2017, 11:39:26 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/as-north-koreas-arsenal-grows-experts-see-heightened-risk-of-miscalculation/2017/03/11/0a0b5cd2-05be-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html

excerpt
QuoteRegardless of whether the miniature bomb is real or a clever prop, North Korea does finally appear to be "on the verge of a nuclear breakout," said Robert Litwak, an expert on nuclear proliferation and director of International Security Studies at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. He said Pyongyang's arsenal is believed to now contain as many as 20 nuclear bombs, along with enough plutonium and highly enriched uranium to make dozens more.

"When I got into this field," Litwak said at a symposium on North Korea this month, "I couldn't have conceived of North Korea acquiring a nuclear arsenal approaching half the size of Great Britain's."

The country's missiles also have grown more sophisticated. Last year, North Korea's military conducted the first test of a two-stage ballistic missile that uses solid fuel — a significant advance over the country's existing liquid-fueled rockets because they can be moved easily and launched quickly. Also in 2016, North Korea broadcast images of engineers testing engines for a new class of advanced missiles with true intercontinental range, potentially putting cities on the U.S. mainland within reach.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Con on May 14, 2017, 12:04:52 AM
I wonder how close we came to nuclear war last night.  The Russians must have been going bat shit seeing a missile heading towards Vladivostok and landing a mere 60 miles away.  Ivan must have been a hairs breath away from pressing the button.  I wonder which way their paranoia would be spinning - was this a missile test from North Korea, a surprise launch from China, was the US behind it like in the movie Spies like Us?  I bet there are a few Russian Generals right now who lost a couple of pounds in sweat (and probably some US ones as well).

Another question I have was this a deliberate targeting by the NORKs or was it just the usual lemming like tossing f missiles that they do?  I just cant fathom what really truly deeply pissing off the Russians in addition to all the other countries that have North Korea on the shit list will achieve.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/13/asia/north-korea-projectile/index.html?adkey=bn

Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on May 15, 2017, 02:41:45 PM
"SURELY THE RUSSIANS WILL NOW BOW TO US AS EQUALS OR EVEN THEIR SUPERIORS ON THE WORLD STAGE!" -- Kim's diary.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on May 15, 2017, 02:42:46 PM
Joke aside, a lot of the super-insanity could be explained as Kim doing his best to keep his own associates scared of him, for his own self-protection.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on May 15, 2017, 07:18:50 PM
I don't know if he's doing a good job or not.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 02, 2017, 08:40:42 AM
Nork Nukes Newly Nuisancing Nebraska.




...



.... as a novelist, I also now declare "nuisancing" to be a real word.

Anyway, thought this thread should be revived with the news that North Korea can now hit Chicago with ICBMs.

We should probably have a RPF thread, too, since there are political fingers to point at how they got the information to get this far.  >:( But I recommend this thread should stay for developing news about the situation.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on August 02, 2017, 08:47:17 AM
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 02, 2017, 08:40:42 AM
...
Anyway, thought this thread should be revived with the news that North Korea can now hit Chicago with ICBMs.
...

They have technology that when used correctly and built correctly might reach the USA.
So far, all they have hit is the Sea of Japan... some of the time.  ::)

When they actually put a test rocket within 500 miles of Hawaii, then you really need to start worrying... about them maybe hitting Hawaii....
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on August 02, 2017, 08:50:36 AM
I saw where their last test almost hit an Air France airliner.  Missed it by about 10mins. 
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 02, 2017, 08:58:12 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on August 02, 2017, 08:47:17 AM
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 02, 2017, 08:40:42 AM
...
Anyway, thought this thread should be revived with the news that North Korea can now hit Chicago with ICBMs.
...

They have technology that when used correctly and built correctly might reach the USA.
So far, all they have hit is the Sea of Japan... some of the time.  ::)

When they actually put a test rocket within 500 miles of Hawaii, then you really need to start worrying... about them maybe hitting Hawaii....


All of this
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Nefaro on August 02, 2017, 09:20:34 AM
Well.. they may have a problem if they launch a ballistic 'test' missile in a trajectory that takes it over Japan, for one.  Especially if it's projected to land anywhere near US territory.  There may be no discerning between a test launch or the real thing, warranting a quick & decisive retaliation against the launching Norks. 

That's why NK has only been launching them into the sea, off their coast, via very high ballistic paths but short land range.  They well know that they may be signing their own death warrant if they shoot their test ICBMs over or near another country.

If the Norks start doing such test launches, then they're already thrown nuclear caution to the wind & it's time to start building that underground shelter for the nuke war (if it doesn't happen right then).
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on August 02, 2017, 09:38:59 AM
Said it before, say it again. Make Hillary ambassador to N.Kor. and problem solved overnight. How would you like waking-up every morning with her waiting outside your bedroom door?   :hide:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 02, 2017, 03:09:27 PM
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/08/lindsey-graham-north-korea/535578/
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 02, 2017, 03:54:34 PM
QuoteBut since the end of the Cold War, preventive military action has become a popular option among U.S. officials, culminating with George W. Bush's invasion of Iraq.

Technically, a state of war existed between Iraq and the US (via the United Nations) the moment Saddam decisively stopped even pretending to abide by the terms of his ceasefire agreement by which we spared his regime from being overthrown after he damn well invaded Kuwait. Moreover, his cabinet had been involved in planning terror strikes against the US, including 9/11. So no, that wasn't a preventative strike, Uri. But people tend to forget those things, and the media at the time was far more concerned with bashing Bush2 than with promoting why Iraq as well as Afghanistan was a target for invasion.

I guarantee if Kim lands a nuke in Boulder, CO, the Democrats will be excoriating Trump & Co. for not having done everything possible to prevent it, and calling that the greatest human catastrophe in living memory. Kim mouths constantly about holding the world hostage (if he can), or just going ahead and doing it (if he can). He had better start being afraid that nearby concerned powers will pull his plug decisively.

Also, Uri ends up having to admit that the catastrophic results he's scared about over there are just as "theoretical" as a risk if we strike, as the theoretical possibility Kim really will pull the trigger once he gets a working ICBM nuke. One big difference is that a strategic city-killer nuke will certainly, not theoretically kill lots of whoever Kim aims at it, whereas surgical strikes against Nork capabilities will certainly limit civilian casualties more. Sure, the whole thing could theoretically spiral out of control after we strike, but a nuke on any other nation's city will spiral out of control -- and the people who would pay the price for that spiral will be just as dead (or wishing they were) either way. The difference will be an extra city of dead civilians somewhere to kick it off.

(Another difference is that missile defense systems have been blocked by.... let us say certain parties... for decades as being destabilizing, leaving the US as the only one who could launch without fear of retaliation. It was also EXACTLY this mindset which led a certain American administration to open up leaks of American nuclear secrets to China, and thence to North Korea, o that the glorious proletariant revolutions in, for example, China and North Korea, could protect themselves against supposed American aggression by creating a new cold war of mutually assured destruction.)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Boggit on August 02, 2017, 10:54:08 PM
Suddenly this sort of conversation seems a lot more real.... :o

Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: ComradeP on August 03, 2017, 12:59:17 AM
JasonPratt: Dutch media reports on a possible war with North Korea focus on risks for the South Korean civilian population in case of surgical strikes. If you're anywhere in or near Seoul when war breaks out, you're probably not going to make it if the North Koreans use their thousands of guns aimed at the city and fire nuclear, chemical and biological weapons at it. Seoul is a very inconveniently located capital.

It's pretty much a hostage situation since the 1950's: If the Pyongyang regime goes down in flames, so does Seoul.

Anyway, we can be reasonably sure North Korea has some second strike capability with its more modern missiles, so the chance of taking everything out in the initial strike is close to zero. The aircraft or necessary quantities of cruise missiles to do so are not in the area to begin with. The recent Tomahawk strikes on an air base in Syria also showed that they're not very good at hitting area targets in a decisive manner, which they were not designed for. Any war wouldn't be quick, but it would be very lethal to anyone in its path.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 03, 2017, 09:44:01 AM
So there's debate over whether it's proven that they have an ICBM isn't there?

But even if they do (or are almost there), how long has it taken? Isn't that the easy part? Isn't the difficult part creating a nuclear warhead small enough to go atop said ICBM and then get it to re-enter?

I've no doubt they're moving towards it - but it seems to me it'll be a while yet.

I think, personally, it's a bit rich of countries to tell other countries not to build nuclear weapons when we're sitting on a shite load ourselves. "We've got nukes, ICBMs and the ability to strike anyone we want...but none of you are allowed them...but don't worry - you won't need them - we're the good guys"...mmm

Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly want NK having nukes...but there's a kind of double standard going on.

Currently the UK is looking at renewing their nuclear arsenal even though they are signed up to the NNPT. North Korea isn't a signatory of the NNTP - they're in a morally better position than the UK who are signatories and still looking to renew.

Anyway - who gives a shit. Bring it.  >:D

This is from Wiki
Quotethe NPT non-nuclear-weapon states agree never to acquire nuclear weapons and the NPT nuclear-weapon states in exchange agree to share the benefits of peaceful nuclear technology and to pursue nuclear disarmament aimed at the ultimate elimination of their nuclear arsenals

When was the last time the UK was in discussion about reducing/removing it's nuclear arsenal with another nation? Genuine question.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 03, 2017, 09:49:17 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 03, 2017, 09:44:01 AM
When was the last time the UK was in discussion about reducing/removing it's nuclear arsenal with another nation? Genuine question.

were y'all a party to SALT, SALT II, START, or INF?

I know the French were always very staunch about their nuclear doctrine of "sufficiency" in which they declared that their nukes were off-the-table in any negotiations, but I don't know enough about where the Brits stand on it.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 03, 2017, 09:58:32 AM
I honestly don't know. I'm trying to look stuff up now.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on August 03, 2017, 10:00:52 AM
Personally I prefer the UK to have nukes and NK to have none, double standard or not.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 03, 2017, 10:08:25 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 03, 2017, 09:49:17 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 03, 2017, 09:44:01 AM
When was the last time the UK was in discussion about reducing/removing it's nuclear arsenal with another nation? Genuine question.

were y'all a party to SALT, SALT II, START, or INF?

I know the French were always very staunch about their nuclear doctrine of "sufficiency" in which they declared that their nukes were off-the-table in any negotiations, but I don't know enough about where the Brits stand on it.
SALT - 1972
SALT II - 1972-1979
START - 1991-1993
INF - 1988??

My question about when the UK was last in discussions about becoming a non-nuclear nation was pointing out that there hasn't been much in the way of movement towards that in the last decade or two (that I'm aware of). It would be nice for the nuclear signatories of the NPT to live up to what was in that treaty and start (restart) disarming.

I understand their twitchiness to do so given NK are looking at kick starting their own program - but that could always be the case anyway (with any country - even a signatory).

I just want to live in a world that Nuke free and hug trees. Is that too much to ask?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 03, 2017, 10:11:36 AM
Quote from: Gusington on August 03, 2017, 10:00:52 AM
Personally I prefer the UK to have nukes and NK to have none, double standard or not.
That makes me feel warm  :smitten:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 03, 2017, 10:12:14 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 03, 2017, 10:08:25 AM
I just want to live in a world that Nuke free and hug trees. Is that too much to ask?


(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F--EAEY8N204o%2FTuGMPYBFHwI%2FAAAAAAAAGkc%2FjBYVRKPJipM%2Fs1600%2FGive%2BPeas%2BA%2BChance%2B11x17.png&hash=b1c8f73018889a85db7b5739abe5881bd0749cb5)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on August 03, 2017, 10:13:44 AM
The problem with hugging trees is they never reciprocate. They're just sooo into themselves.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 03, 2017, 10:15:09 AM
Trees can be so wooden.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 03, 2017, 10:20:55 AM
INF was signed in '87, IIRC. 
At the time we were in Schwabisch-Gmund, which was the Pershing 2 HQ in Germany (56th FA Command) and the unit most directly affected by it.  It was the P-2's accuracy (w/in 1m at full range) that brought the Russians to the table; they were scared to death of it.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on August 03, 2017, 10:36:37 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 03, 2017, 10:08:25 AM
I just want to live in a world that Nuke free and hug trees. Is that too much to ask?

On the queens worst day, she would never us a nuke.  On Kim's best any day he could launch the just for the fun of it. 
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: ComradeP on August 03, 2017, 11:02:44 AM
JudgeDredd: the "nukes equals safety" argument is important for countries that face a (theoretical) enemy neighbouring them (Israel and its neighbours for example) or a superpower (that goes for Iran and North Korea).

In recent years, the crisis in the eastern part of Ukraine has shown that nuclear disarmament in exchange for guarantees for peaceful conflict resolution doesn't work if Russia or the US doesn't want it to. Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal, was given guarantees and presto, it was invaded by Russia after which nobody cared about the guarantees given earlier.

If you're an unstable leader, or have a population that feels it might benefit from more modern political leadership, the Ukrainian situation provides an excellent incentive to continue developing nuclear weapons. 

Though the US and Russia have dramatically reduced the number of nuclear weapons in their arsenal, modern weapons are significantly more potent than the 1960's-1970's weapons that formed the backbone of the arsenal. However, early nuclear technology is still in use. Retaliation strategies for the US still seems to include launching vintage Minuteman missiles with shaky early computer technology backing them, so further disarmament or at the least the complete removal of pre-end of the Cold War missiles would help. I'm sure Russia also has some nuclear weapons supported by questionable technology around.

An accidental launch and the complete disaster that would follow it with the current leadership of the US and Russia is a scary but certainly possible eventuality.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 03, 2017, 11:26:55 AM
Quote from: ComradeP on August 03, 2017, 11:02:44 AMUkraine gave up its nuclear arsenal, was given guarantees and presto, it was invaded by Russia after which nobody cared about the guarantees given earlier.

The Russians themselves view any agreements under Yeltsin to be some other country that is not "Russia" as it's currently constituted.  Moreover, they'll also argue that part of those agreements were included no eastward expansion of NATO, and yet now we have the Baltics, Poland, Hungary, etc - all former WP client states - in NATO, edging ever-closer to the Russian border.

Given that paranoia is not just a national trait, but a point of pride, for the Russians, it's not hard to see their actions as 'rational' from their point of view.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 03, 2017, 05:18:53 PM
IN RUSSIA, PARANOIA IS OUT TO GET YOU!  :arr:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on August 03, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Interesting what BB said about Yeltsin era Russia being another country, different from what Russia is now.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 04, 2017, 11:40:06 AM
Quote from: Gusington on August 03, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Interesting what BB said about Yeltsin era Russia being another country, different from what Russia is now.

That might be conceivably true for every administration in Russia since the fall of the Iron Curtain.


...um.... however many that is. I can only recall Yeltsin and Putin, but I'm allowing for other rulers in the cryptokleptocracy. ;)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 09, 2017, 01:33:55 PM
This week's trolling from North Korea: let's threaten Guam!  ::)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 09, 2017, 01:50:25 PM
Maybe they can capsize it...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 09, 2017, 01:58:39 PM
It's a constant worry for Guam.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on August 09, 2017, 02:27:07 PM
'Guam?? Sir, there's nothing going on in Guam!!'
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 09, 2017, 02:33:16 PM
That movie turns 30 years old this year.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on August 09, 2017, 09:54:44 PM
Yeah I know...RIP Robin 😞
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 09, 2017, 09:56:31 PM
And JT Walsh and Noble Willingham  :'(
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on August 09, 2017, 10:03:45 PM
Maybe that movie was cursed.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 09, 2017, 10:05:12 PM
Maybe we're just getting old
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on August 09, 2017, 10:09:30 PM
I don't think I have ever felt older than right now.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on August 10, 2017, 07:51:39 AM
Just read that they are saying exactly what they want to do:

"The Hwasong-12 rockets to be launched by the [Korean People's Army] will cross the sky above Shimane, Hiroshima and Koichi Prefectures of Japan," the report said, citing North Korean Gen. Kim Rak Gyom, commander of the military's Strategic Rocket Forces. "They will fly 3,356.7 km (2,085.8 miles) for 1,065 seconds and hit the waters 30 to 40 km away from Guam."

It sounds like they think this is a good opportunity to test their missiles. They are wrong and would be smart not to do it. But when have they ever been smart?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 10, 2017, 08:27:42 AM
I wonder if we could shoot them down, just to prove a point?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on August 10, 2017, 08:38:34 AM
^Japan and South Korea both have said they have a legal right to do so.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on August 10, 2017, 08:49:03 AM
Someone on Bloomberg tv made a point yesterday that the Koreas are still at war with each other. A peace treaty has never been signed.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on August 10, 2017, 08:53:15 AM
We've still got time to send Hillary in to save the day. Just saying.  :cowboy:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 10, 2017, 09:05:21 AM
Quote from: OJsDad on August 10, 2017, 08:49:03 AM
Someone on Bloomberg tv made a point yesterday that the Koreas are still at war with each other. A peace treaty has never been signed.

Hell, we are still at war with the Norks.

{breaking news from an old radio program - they interrupted a Heinlein adaptation on Dimension X}
http://bayonetgames.com/blogart/DestinationMoonKoreanWarAnnouncement.mp3
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 11, 2017, 03:18:37 AM
https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/895025098188611584


https://twitter.com/kibblesmith/status/895017319470174208 (https://twitter.com/kibblesmith/status/895017319470174208)


https://twitter.com/danwlin/status/895131441587134464 (https://twitter.com/danwlin/status/895131441587134464)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 11, 2017, 08:05:08 AM
This is too funny

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jay-mccarthy/fire-and-fury_b_17707716.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 11, 2017, 02:20:28 PM
https://theintercept.com/2017/07/29/dan-coats-north-korea-nukes-nuclear-libya-regime-change/
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 11, 2017, 06:24:12 PM
http://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2017/08/11/if-the-us-is-going-to-war-in-north-korea-nobody-told-the-us-military/
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on August 11, 2017, 07:49:55 PM
That's because Trump and Li'L Kimmie are New Best Frenemies. The more #RealDonaldTrump yells about Fire and Fury the more Kimmie gets to justify his need to keep the Nork Orcs toiling in the fire-forges of Mordor. The more His Dear Ovalness threatens Guam the more El Donalde gets to bluster up a Big Media Smell to drift attention away from Grand Juries and Trump Money Laundries, Inc.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 11, 2017, 08:06:25 PM
...even without any evidence that sounds amazingly plausible...  :hide:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 13, 2017, 11:03:13 AM
http://thebulletin.org/north-korea%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cnot-quite%E2%80%9D-icbm-can%E2%80%99t-hit-lower-48-states11012
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Boggit on August 13, 2017, 09:40:02 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 03, 2017, 10:08:25 AM
I just want to live in a world that Nuke free and hug trees. Is that too much to ask?
Yes! :o  ;)

It's a nice thought but naïve now Pandora's Box has opened... :(



Sadly, this is the worrying fact of life... M.A.D. ;) isn't it?



BTW the German version is better... but same grim message ::)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Boggit on August 13, 2017, 10:25:46 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 10, 2017, 08:27:42 AM
I wonder if we could shoot them down, just to prove a point?
I heard various pundits on the news suggesting that with current anti-ballistic missiles you'll get about half those shot at you. If you're on the wrong side of the calculation (if correct), doesn't that encourage Emperor Kim that he is right to bait the US with nuclear destruction?

Everyone's saying calm down - the media's saying it's all Trump's fault for upping the rhetoric. But if you have a pathological dictator threatening to nuke your territory, while he fine tunes the rest of his arsenal prior to being in a position to nuking the US mainland (should he wish), would you not make it very clear to the other big players that they are not your targets, and then put Chairman Kim in a position that prevents him from ever threatening your country with nuclear destruction?

Or is it better for the American people to wait until he launches his promised attacks with presumably working missiles? If Kim Jong Un was a more stable character I'd err on the side of caution, but waiting for his missiles to leave Korea for the US before you act seems wishful thinking. I think President Trump should give him a clear, unequivocal ultimatum that challenges him with his current state of development, and forces him to quit. If you don't force him to quit he can fire off his missiles when he is good and ready, and you will pay for vacillating with the lives of US citizens on a vast scale if he carries out his promises.

And you don't have to deliver a bucket of instant sunshine on L'il Kim to enforce that ultimatum if he won't comply. There is plenty of conventional stuff you can use, and that in itself reduces the probability of panic reactions from China and Russia that would entail if nuclear weapons were used against North Korea. It might even be worth discussing the possibility of conventional war with North Korea with China and Russia - partly to get them to realise you're serious on the Nork Nuke issue, but also to get them on board with reconstruction, and the future of Korea as a whole when the fighting is done. If China and Russia truly think that the US will flex its muscles on the issue rather than back down, I imagine - in their own interest - as much as anything they will put huge pressure on Kim Jung Un to back down, and may even take action themselves to prevent the USA from destroying the North Korean regime and creating a power vacuum on their borders... not to mention all the other sh*t that flows from having a war in an adjacent country, which none of the countries in the region will want.

If the price of peace means you carry a big stick, then so be it. Far better that you are taken seriously, than being a paper tiger that everyone thinks will back down in the end. That is where severe miscalculations can happen. During the Cold War everyone knew where they stood, and people were careful not to provoke too much because they knew the other side was equally serious. I'd hate Kim Jung Un to think he could carry out a threat to attack the USA, or its allies because he thought the US was bluffing about retaliating.

No one wants to see a war that will be very nasty indeed for lots of people, so I'm all for a diplomatic solution. But if you've exhausted all available means of dissuading Chairman Kim from his plans you are between a rock and a hard place if he is serious about his intentions of nuking the USA. It's not like you can wait for a Pearl Harbor type attack when it involves nuclear weapons, you have to act pre-emptively to stop him using them. But a pre-emptive attack doesn't need to be nuclear - and perhaps best not for the reasons already given. You have to draw your line in the sand and have the moral courage to stick to enforcing it. That puts the ball in Kim's court.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Toonces on August 14, 2017, 06:19:47 AM
Back when I was a kid, we didn't send clear and unambiguous messages to other heads of state via Twitter.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 14, 2017, 06:41:27 AM
Quote from: Toonces on August 14, 2017, 06:19:47 AM
Back when I was a kid, we didn't send clear and unambiguous messages to other heads of state via Twitter.

what exactly were people doing on Twitter when you were a kid?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Toonces on August 14, 2017, 07:30:58 AM
Don't be like that.   >:(
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on August 14, 2017, 07:42:24 AM
I don't think Lil Kim will give up his nukes for anything.  Bush II put N Korea in the axis of evil.  After seeing what was done in Iraq and Libya, and even Ukraine, he views nukes as being his only defense against invasion. 
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 14, 2017, 08:15:47 AM
just curious - has their been any country that's voluntarily given up their nukes in public and not been invaded or attacked by someone afterwards?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on August 14, 2017, 08:16:42 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 14, 2017, 08:15:47 AM
just curious - has their been any country that's voluntarily given up their nukes in public and not been invaded or attacked by someone afterwards?

South Africa.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 14, 2017, 09:06:17 AM
Quote from: OJsDad on August 14, 2017, 08:16:42 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 14, 2017, 08:15:47 AM
just curious - has their been any country that's voluntarily given up their nukes in public and not been invaded or attacked by someone afterwards?

South Africa.

did they give them up?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 14, 2017, 09:09:46 AM
They did.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 14, 2017, 10:17:34 AM
OK, so that's one.

And the one that was likely safest giving them up since their biggest 'threat' when they had them was being surrounded by majority-black-rule nations while they were still practicing apartheid.

All of the others? Libya, Norks, Ukraine, India, Pakistan, Israel - not exactly swimming in a sea of friends there, huh?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 14, 2017, 10:19:53 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 14, 2017, 10:17:34 AM
OK, so that's one.

That's pretty much what you asked for.

Quotejust curious - has their been any country that's voluntarily given up their nukes in public and not been invaded or attacked by someone afterwards?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 14, 2017, 10:21:06 AM
Belarus also gave up their nukes. Taiwan was dissuaded from pursuing it's nuke program.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on August 14, 2017, 10:26:28 AM
Was it voluntary in Belarus or more like Russia taking them back as quickly as possible at some point after 1991?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 14, 2017, 10:29:39 AM
Quote from: Gusington on August 14, 2017, 10:26:28 AM
Was it voluntary in Belarus or more like Russia taking them back as quickly as possible at some point after 1991?

The Russians didn't get them all back until '96 so I'm guessing there was some negotiation.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on August 14, 2017, 10:32:14 AM
In Soviet Russia nuclear warhead negotiates for you.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 14, 2017, 10:33:12 AM
Indeed
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 14, 2017, 10:35:51 AM
Kazakhstan also gave theirs up and they had the world's fourth largest nuclear arsenal for a while.


http://thediplomat.com/2015/04/kazakhstan-nuclear-weapons-free-for-20-years/
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on August 14, 2017, 10:42:20 AM
I wonder under what kind of threats from Russia did these former Soviet republics give up their nukes...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 14, 2017, 10:43:00 AM
Quote from: mirth on August 14, 2017, 10:19:53 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 14, 2017, 10:17:34 AM
OK, so that's one.

That's pretty much what you asked for.

Quotejust curious - has their been any country that's voluntarily given up their nukes in public and not been invaded or attacked by someone afterwards?

It is exactly what I asked for.  I didn't realize there were any.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 14, 2017, 10:47:07 AM
Quote from: Gusington on August 14, 2017, 10:42:20 AM
I wonder under what kind of threats from Russia did these former Soviet republics give up their nukes...

I think it was more in the way of inducements than threats. Difficult to seriously threaten a country with 1400 nukes. I wouldn't be surprised if we kicked some $$ their way.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 14, 2017, 10:48:29 AM
Quote from: Gusington on August 14, 2017, 10:42:20 AM
I wonder under what kind of threats from Russia did these former Soviet republics give up their nukes...

Actually, very little.  Most of them didn't want them anymore, because they understood that they lacked the central authority and institutions of government to guarantee their safety and security, and didn't want to get blamed if one of them got snuck out onto the black market somewhere.  Given what's happened with the conventional arms those countries had, post-1992, it's a valid concern.


For context: from 1994-1998, my dad was the commanding officer of OSIA-E (the European office of what's now called DTRA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Threat_Reduction_Agency)).  While the primary concern of their office was conventional arms - especially the Helsinki Accords, the Vienna Treaty, the Dayton Accords, etc) his team did assist a variety of folks from the DC office with planning & executing some nuke inspections during those years, too.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on August 14, 2017, 10:54:56 AM
Interesting. Is every single nuke from Belarus, Kazakhstan, etc., now accounted for?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Boggit on August 14, 2017, 05:38:01 PM
Quote from: Gusington on August 14, 2017, 10:54:56 AM
Interesting. Is every single nuke from Belarus, Kazakhstan, etc., now accounted for?
I doubt it. There has to be some evil genius building a secret missile base with plans to dominate the world. I suppose North Korea would be a good place to hide in that case! ;) >:D
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on August 14, 2017, 05:39:13 PM
Well my personal nightmare scenario is that one of those unaccounted-for warheads arrives in New York Harbor in a cargo box and is detonated.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 14, 2017, 05:51:30 PM
You wouldn't even have time to peep yourself.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Boggit on August 14, 2017, 06:26:44 PM
Well with the Norks you have no longer have anything to fear as God has made himself known as being on President Trump's side - no doubt you'll get a bonus Ark of the Covenant as backup if any bombs/missiles fail... You folks can now go to war safe in the knowledge that God is with President Trump. :wow:

Gee. I do wish I had the ear of God too, he could tell me who will win the Grand National 15 minutes before the race starts! :DD

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/08/09/trump-north-korea-robert-jeffress/554709001/
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 14, 2017, 09:56:04 PM
QuoteOne of President Trump's Evangelical Advisers says that "...God has given Trump authority to take out Kim Jong-Un" and that he can use nuclear missiles to do it.

"Also, sir, try not to blink and fumble around when reaching for who or what created all mankind during a speech. It makes you look, eh, a little unconvincing in your faith, especially when what you come up with is 'our Creator'. And have to fumble for that two or three times. In close proximity."
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Boggit on August 14, 2017, 10:58:23 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 14, 2017, 09:56:04 PM
QuoteOne of President Trump's Evangelical Advisers says that "...God has given Trump authority to take out Kim Jong-Un" and that he can use nuclear missiles to do it.

"Also, sir, try not to blink and fumble around when reaching for who or what created all mankind during a speech. It makes you look, eh, a little unconvincing in your faith, especially when what you come up with is 'our Creator'. And have to fumble for that two or three times. In close proximity."
:DD
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on August 15, 2017, 12:09:25 AM
well they can't reach south Floriduh so fuck all y'all.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 15, 2017, 06:04:57 AM
they don't need to

why nuke God's waiting room?

Just take a nap and half the county will die of old age
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on August 15, 2017, 07:49:50 AM
Last I checked Florida was surrounded by some water as well so a 'missing' warhead floating around and then towards almost anywhere in the state is just as real a possibility as one floating in to NY harbor.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on August 15, 2017, 11:06:22 AM
theres no way the drug cartels are going to let a bunch of aloha snackbar fucks mess up their prime smuggling routes.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on August 15, 2017, 11:35:14 AM
I don't think Little Kim would shoot at Florida. The stats looks too much like a great big penis and that would probably make him feel inadequate. At least it does me anyway.  :hide:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on August 15, 2017, 12:03:34 PM
Haha 'let' - the idea of 'letting' anywhere get nuked is quaint. I would also bet that the drug consumption of the NYC metro area is worth at least as much as the smuggling routes in and around The Big Penis (Florida).
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on August 15, 2017, 12:08:02 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on August 15, 2017, 11:06:22 AM
theres no way the drug cartels are going to let a bunch of aloha snackbar fucks mess up their prime smuggling routes.

Now that would make a hell of a situation.  I could see the MSM cheering on the cartels. 

Can we get someone to develop a war game with that as the main theme. 
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on August 15, 2017, 12:47:31 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/south-korea%E2%80%99s-leader-bluntly-warns-us-against-striking-north/ar-AAq9m0H?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

QuoteSEOUL, South Korea — With his public alarmed by President Trump's recent threats to North Korea, President Moon Jae-in of South Korea issued an unusually blunt rebuke to the United States on Tuesday, warning that any unilateral military action against the North over its nuclear weapons program would be intolerable.

"No one should be allowed to decide on a military action on the Korean Peninsula without South Korean agreement," Mr. Moon said in a nationally televised speech.

As a candidate for the presidency, Mr. Moon, a liberal who took office in May, said he would "say no to the Americans" if necessary. But he has aligned South Korea more closely with its military ally than many had expected. Though he suspended the deployment of a United States missile defense system opposed by China, he reversed that decision last month after North

But President Trump's threat to bring "fire and fury" to North Korea, along with other statements from American officials about the possibility of war, has unnerved many South Koreans and put pressure on Mr. Moon to live up to his campaign promise. "Our government will do everything it can to prevent war from breaking out," he said in his speech Tuesday.

Mr. Moon's pushback was the latest indication that Mr. Trump's unorthodox approach to foreign policy, coupled with Pyongyang's rapid progress toward its goal of nuclear missiles that can reach the mainland United States, was putting new strain on the longstanding alliance. And it underscored how Mr. Trump's volatile language is sowing division with an ally whose help would be vital to the success of any American military campaign on the divided peninsula.

Since the 1950-53 Korean War, South Koreans have grown used to bellicose rhetoric from North Korea, like its routine threats to unleash "a sea of fire" on Seoul, the capital, which is within range of the North's artillery.

But they had never seen an American president taunt the North with similar language, until Mr. Trump threatened it with "fire and fury like the world has never seen" and said his country's military options were "locked and loaded."

"The Americans had always been an ally who would prevent, not start, war on the Korean Peninsula," said Kim Ji-woon, a college student attending a rally on Monday in central Seoul that featured a large banner reading: "Trump, shut up!" "With his trash war talk, Trump makes me wonder what's the use of the alliance."

Mr. Moon has been careful not to do anything that his conservative enemies could use to accuse him of undermining the relationship with the United States. But all South Korean leaders have learned that it is political suicide to look too weak to stand up to a bigger power, even if it happens to be the country's main ally.

In 2008, many South Koreans believed that President Lee Myung-bak had succumbed to United States pressure to allow American beef imports into the country despite fears of mad cow disease. Huge crowds took to the streets, and the government was paralyzed for weeks. Mr. Lee eventually apologized in tears.

The backlash could be far greater should North Korea shell Seoul in response to an American military strike, said Kim Dong-yub, an analyst at the Institute for Far Eastern Studies at Kyungnam University in Seoul. "It could be the end of the alliance," he said.

Many South Koreans have seethed in recent days over what they considered irresponsible statements from American leaders about the possibility of war, particularly since comments by U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham were widely reported here.

"If thousands die, they're going to die over there — they're not going to die here," Mr. Graham, a South Carolina Republican, told NBC's "Today Show" this month, summing up what he said were the views of Mr. Trump. "He's told me that to my face — and that may be provocative, but not really. When you're president of the United States, where does your allegiance lie?"

Around the same time, Mr. Trump's national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, said the American military options for North Korea included launching a "preventive war."

South Korean newspapers have reacted with dismay. Kim Young-hie, a prominent columnist at the JoongAng Ilbo, a conservative mass-circulation daily, called Mr. Trump "a dangerous president who doesn't understand the basic concept of war."

"It is shameless for someone to openly say that he does not care if Korea is destroyed and that hundreds of thousands of Koreans might die in military action aimed at defending the U.S. mainland," he wrote last week.

Members of Mr. Moon's governing Democratic Party have also been critical, including its chairwoman, Choo Mi-ae, who accused "high-ranking American officials" of worsening the situation with their "impromptu and not carefully thought-out messages."

Mr. Moon has faced pressure from the conservative opposition as well. The Korea Liberty Party called him an "invisible man" for failing to defuse the standoff between Washington and Pyongyang.

Mr. Trump and Mr. Moon have spoken only a handful of times, most recently in an Aug. 6 phone call. Mr. Trump has yet to appoint an ambassador to South Korea.

South Koreans had chafed at some of Mr. Trump's remarks well before the latest tensions with Pyongyang. As a presidential candidate, Mr. Trump repeatedly accused the country of not contributing enough to the American military presence. In April, he caused offense by saying that Korea "used to be a part of China."

His policy toward North Korea has been baffling to many in the region. Mr. Trump has called the Obama administration's approach to Pyongyang, commonly known as "strategic patience," a failure. But he also once said he would be "honored" to meet Kim Jong-un, before threatening his country with devastation this month.

"We are very much confused," Moon Jung-in, a special policy adviser to President Moon, told ABC News on Sunday. "Therefore, we think that now the American government has moved from strategic patience" to "strategic confusion."

In his speech on Tuesday, President Moon repeated his argument that sanctions and pressure alone would not deter North Korea from its nuclear pursuits, but he said war should not be an option. "The purpose of strong sanctions and pressure against North Korea is to bring it to the negotiating table, not to raise military tensions," he said.

He urged North Korea to help create an atmosphere for dialogue by refraining from further nuclear or missile tests. But Pyongyang, which often calls South Korea an American "puppet," has been dismissive of Mr. Moon, conducting seven missile tests since he came to office and ignoring his offer to hold talks at the countries' border.

Analysts expect North Korea to conduct more missile tests after the United States and South Korea begin annual joint military exercises on Monday. The North regards those drills as rehearsals for invasion.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 15, 2017, 01:22:27 PM
Quote"We are very much confused," Moon Jung-in, a special policy adviser to President Moon, told ABC News on Sunday. "Therefore, we think that now the American government has moved from strategic patience" to "strategic confusion."

Okay, that could be a legitimate critique. And dryly funny.

QuoteIn his speech on Tuesday, President Moon repeated his argument that sanctions and pressure alone would not deter North Korea from its nuclear pursuits, but he said war should not be an option.

...uh. Okay, so, what would deter NK from its nuclear pursuits and bring it to the negotiating table instead?

Quote"The purpose of strong sanctions and pressure against North Korea is to bring it to the negotiating table, not to raise military tensions," he said.

So sanctions and pressure by themselves will not bring NK to the negotiating table, but the purpose of sanctions and pressure is to bring it to the table.

....I'm not any fan of President Trump, but maybe Pres. Moon was showing Advisor Moon his own notes?  ::)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Boggit on August 15, 2017, 04:12:25 PM
Quote from: Sir Slash on August 15, 2017, 11:35:14 AM
I don't think Little Kim would shoot at Florida. The stats looks too much like a great big penis and that would probably make him feel inadequate. At least it does me anyway.  :hide:
Maybe it does, but at least take some Schadenfreude in the fact that "Big Penis" is a limp one, perhaps reflecting an increasing lack of sex drive associated with reaching a certain age? ::) Perhaps if the average population of Florida wasn't in God's Waiting Room (as Brant suggests) you'd see continental drift from the Keys to being offshore to the Georgia/South Carolina coast! ;)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on August 15, 2017, 05:54:37 PM
Quote from: Gusington on August 15, 2017, 12:03:34 PM
Haha 'let' - the idea of 'letting' anywhere get nuked is quaint. I would also bet that the drug consumption of the NYC metro area is worth at least as much as the smuggling routes in and around The Big Penis (Florida).

consumption..... maybe.  but this is where it comes from.
theres a reason the government made deals with the mafia during WW2.  never bet against enlightened self interest.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on August 15, 2017, 10:33:17 PM
We just keep Florida limp so the tourists can find Miami easier.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Boggit on August 16, 2017, 02:43:05 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on August 15, 2017, 10:33:17 PM
We just keep Florida limp so the tourists can find Miami easier.
:DD
Then thank God there hasn't been Viagra leak into the notorious Floridian water table, otherwise Miami will be halfway to Bermuda! :2funny:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on August 16, 2017, 10:46:16 AM
We have the Virgin Islands VERY worried about that very thing.  ^-^
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 17, 2017, 08:43:25 AM
Back on topic: a strategic and tactical analysis of Norking Guam.




(Note to self: call legal, tell them to trademark 'Norking'. I want a quarter every time someone says it.)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 17, 2017, 08:49:46 AM
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Boggit on August 18, 2017, 02:24:02 AM
While things have currently gone quiet, it may not stay that way for long...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-nuclear-idUSKCN1AX0KG (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-nuclear-idUSKCN1AX0KG)

Sorry. I don't know how to show the link graphically. Advice anyone? :(
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 18, 2017, 06:04:42 AM
Quote from: Boggit on August 18, 2017, 02:24:02 AM
Sorry. I don't know how to show the link graphically. Advice anyone? :(

what are you trying to show?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Boggit on August 19, 2017, 10:04:24 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 18, 2017, 06:04:42 AM
Quote from: Boggit on August 18, 2017, 02:24:02 AM
Sorry. I don't know how to show the link graphically. Advice anyone? :(

what are you trying to show?
The news headlines page from the http link
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 25, 2017, 07:57:02 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41035591
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on August 28, 2017, 04:53:09 PM
Looks like the North Koreans launched a missile that went over Japan.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/28/japanese-government-warns-north-korea-missile-headed-toward-northern-japan-report-says.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 28, 2017, 05:00:47 PM
I wonder at what point the Japanese modify their constitution to allow for more than self-defense forces.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on August 28, 2017, 06:57:50 PM
^They already are more than self defense forces in all but name.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 28, 2017, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: Labbug on August 28, 2017, 04:53:09 PM
Looks like the North Koreans launched a missile that went over Japan.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/28/japanese-government-warns-north-korea-missile-headed-toward-northern-japan-report-says.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/28/north-korea-fires-missile-japan

Seriously, do these fuckers WANT to die? Because that's how you die.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 28, 2017, 07:20:38 PM
I'm thinking the Japanese aren't too keen about being threatened with a nuke attack.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on August 28, 2017, 08:00:06 PM
There are people still alive there that remember what it was like last time, too.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on August 28, 2017, 08:03:59 PM
^exactly
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on August 28, 2017, 10:42:17 PM
I hope they wake-up Godzilla and he makes Little Kim something to be scrapped off the bottom of his Godzilla-Foot. Either one, I don't care.  :clap:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 29, 2017, 08:44:58 AM
First to be atomic punchflamed: Yongary.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Boggit on August 29, 2017, 08:34:03 PM
So, what do we take away from all this?

1. Kim Jung Un is not at all fazed by American counter threats over Guam;
2. China and Russia don't seem effective at shutting down NK missile tests;
3. NK missiles are getting ever closer to the USA, even if incrementally so;
4. No one wants a war with NK, but it seems Kim Jung Un is not bothered about one either as everyone else is backing down;
5. It all seems a little bit like the policy of appeasement with Hitler... NK will carry on until either a missile hits the USA, or until a clear line is crossed;
6. Unfortunately no clear red line has been issued to NK, so Kim Jung Un will keep probing US resolve until - or if - a red line is clearly set out;
7. If a clear red line is set out signalling that NK aggression has created a state of war with the USA and its allies, then it is prudent to prevent escalation to have Russia and China on board with any such ultimatum;
8. That might be a problem unless a post NK defeat situation is worked out in advance with Russia and China to protect their interests in the region so as not to escalate hostilities beyond NK;
9. Even if China and Russia get on board with a mutually agreed red line, I'd expect any war with NK to be bloody on both sides, which begs the question whether the USA and its allies have the stomach to fight a bloody high intensity war when there will have been nothing like it since Vietnam in terms of anticipated casualties - and possibly more than Vietnam too;
10. Assuming NK cross an agreed red line, and the US and its allies do have the appetite for war, how will it leave the US and its allies afterwards viz the blocs of China and Russia? Is there the possibility that if things don't go the USA's way that China and Russia might intervene directly or indirectly with NK?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 29, 2017, 08:58:14 PM
Technically, a state of war still exists with North Korea.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: MikeGER on August 30, 2017, 04:18:08 AM
China, Russia and USA have to negotiate in secret diplomacy the state of North Korea or better a reunited Korea after a quick and dirty (and possible short hot kinetic) regime change.

a possible solution with China would include that a later 'United Korea' has almost non US troops garrison any more and those few advisors who remain are all in the South, plus large demilitarized zone at the Chinese border.
Also all three big players have to solve those water territory (resources) issues in the NK area first too.
And they have to talk about share of trade benefits with a future "United Korea" a lot
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 30, 2017, 05:01:53 AM
Quote from: MikeGER on August 30, 2017, 04:18:08 AMa possible solution with China would include that a later 'United Korea' has almost non US troops garrison any more and those few advisors who remain are all in the South, plus large demilitarized zone at the Chinese border.

The Russians will kill that dead by pointing out that NATO promised not to expand eastward after 1992, and yet here we are, with half of the Warsaw Pact, and former SSRs all in NATO and bordering on Russia itself these days.  They'll say there's no way the US keeps these promises, and on balance, they're not wrong...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Boggit on August 30, 2017, 07:27:21 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 30, 2017, 05:01:53 AM
Quote from: MikeGER on August 30, 2017, 04:18:08 AMa possible solution with China would include that a later 'United Korea' has almost non US troops garrison any more and those few advisors who remain are all in the South, plus large demilitarized zone at the Chinese border.

The Russians will kill that dead by pointing out that NATO promised not to expand eastward after 1992, and yet here we are, with half of the Warsaw Pact, and former SSRs all in NATO and bordering on Russia itself these days.  They'll say there's no way the US keeps these promises, and on balance, they're not wrong...
It's a very fair point you make.

It still leaves the conundrum that Kim Jung Un represents a potential existential threat to the USA and to others, which will have to be confronted sooner or later if diplomacy fails. It is a matter of time before the NK missile program becomes a serious threat, and they are making incremental progress as witnessed by their latest test over Japan.

It will be apparent to Russia that the present situation is totally different to former Soviet "republics" joining NATO, and is not helped by NK applying more fuel on the fire by saying they will continue to launch missiles across the Pacific following the infringement of Japanese territory.

I suspect that Russia would rather have some involvement over the future of NK even if they don't like the way things have gone in the past, or are heading in the future. If the Russians allow the USA to act unilaterally to defend itself by a pre-emptive war without any involvement in finalising the end game for NK doesn't that create a worse, or at the very least an uncertain outcome for them?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on August 31, 2017, 11:09:20 AM
I'm trying to figure out the minimum punch that might become necessary. Is it regime change, by removing the regime? Also need to remove current ways for the regime to hit SK without defense (i.e. smite all the artillery on the border).
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Boggit on August 31, 2017, 07:25:26 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 31, 2017, 11:09:20 AM
I'm trying to figure out the minimum punch that might become necessary. Is it regime change, by removing the regime? Also need to remove current ways for the regime to hit SK without defense (i.e. smite all the artillery on the border).
You need to be pretty damn sure that eliminating Kim Hung Un is not just cutting off one head from the Hydra. However, who can you think of who has survived with sufficient profile to be a contender as a replacement for KJU? I can't think of anyone either that hasn't already been sent to the ranges for anti-aircraft artillery firing practice. Regime change is too simplistic a solution anyway because of the power balance, and potential power vacuum on both Russia and China's borders. That is why it is ideal to bring them to discussion on what constitutes the end game result following any armed conflict that is necessary to remove NK as a nuclear threat to world, and more specifically - since you guys are in KJU's sights - peace in the USA.

As to SK, the best hope for their civilians is to flee south as in Korean War round 1. Unless you can paste NK in time with enough MOAB's they are going to get pulverised by NK artillery, and I don't expect KJU to make any distinction between SK or the USA, irrespective of the fact that it will likely be the USA to clobber him first, as he's in a good position to vent his spleen on Seoul before his guns get taken out. Given the proximity to China and Russia, and even if you ignore the very legitimate concerns of SK and Japan I think a nuclear strike by the US is extremely unlikely because of the present uncertainty as to how either China or Russia will respond. Even without nukes they are going to pontificate and hope KJU backs down as neither of them will want a failed state on their doorstep. So with that in mind, I think they will eventually have to face reality and engage diplomatically with the US,  rather than get an outcome that they cannot influence, and find completely antagonistic - e.g a United Korea with its capital in Seoul, and backed by the USA...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on September 03, 2017, 11:17:28 AM
The Norks are claiming to have exploded a hydrogen bomb.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: MikeGER on September 03, 2017, 11:40:14 AM
6.3 is quit a tremor ...some Norwegian experts estimate a 120kt yield ?

if its really a Hydrogen bomb will the fallout atmospheric trace gas analysis tell in a short time after sampled by 'spyplanes'
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on September 03, 2017, 12:28:42 PM
CNN reporting that there are multiple 'radiation sniffing' planes in the area right now.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on September 03, 2017, 02:27:45 PM
https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/904130656090939393
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 03, 2017, 05:35:28 PM
Spoiler...  image is NSFW, but is a political cartoon

[spoiler](https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21271283_1542848169087243_2179309128094244708_n.jpg?oh=f70ef3c206464c3e54696a26c7c85b48&oe=5A517301)[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on September 03, 2017, 10:36:23 PM
Not a lot of mega-tonnage there either side.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on September 04, 2017, 01:06:19 PM
Quote from: MikeGER on September 03, 2017, 11:40:14 AM
6.3 is quit a tremor ...some Norwegian experts estimate a 120kt yield ?

That doesn't seem like much for a hydrogen bomb.  ???


The UN Security Council has called an emergency meeting this morning. Wonder how many times that has happened before over NK?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on September 04, 2017, 02:30:55 PM
You mean today, or ever?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 04, 2017, 09:36:35 PM
Threat analysis

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/defense/326094-how-north-korea-could-kill-up-to-90-percent-of-americans-at-any
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on September 04, 2017, 09:45:39 PM
Just read One Second After.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on September 04, 2017, 10:23:15 PM
Little Kim don't need to nuke us. Irma will wipe us out for him. Dennis Rodman will be left to re-populate the country.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on September 05, 2017, 05:42:26 AM
No, North Korea Can't Kill 90 Percent of Americans (http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a25883/north-korea-cant-kill-ninety-percent-of-americans/)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 05, 2017, 06:14:58 AM
Bill Forstchen is laughing all the way to the bank.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 05, 2017, 06:15:38 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on September 04, 2017, 10:23:15 PM
Little Kim don't need to nuke us. Irma will wipe us out for him. Dennis Rodman will be left to re-populate the country.

He and the other cockroaches will build a marvelous new civilization.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on September 05, 2017, 08:22:31 AM
If North Korea now has an H-bomb, how long will it be that they share that information with the Iranians?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 05, 2017, 08:25:20 AM
I suspect Iran already has the information. It's the tools and materials that are harder obtain.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on September 05, 2017, 08:43:55 AM
Quote from: mirth on September 05, 2017, 08:25:20 AM
I suspect Iran already has the information. It's the tools and materials that are harder obtain.

They have been sharing military hardware and training for about 30 years.  I suspect the North Koreans will provide the tools and materials they can spare and/or point them to black market sources of these tools and materials.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 05, 2017, 08:50:50 AM
Quote from: Labbug on September 05, 2017, 08:22:31 AM
If North Korea now has an H-bomb, how long will it be that they share that information with the Iranians?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/12/world/a-tale-of-nuclear-proliferation-how-pakistani-built-his-network.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 05, 2017, 09:24:33 AM
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/13973/u-s-navys-hugely-versatile-sm-6-missile-keeps-scoring-hits
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on September 05, 2017, 09:46:54 AM
Perhaps people should read the Science Fiction Novel "Level 7".
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on September 05, 2017, 01:26:51 PM
Also read Ted Koeppel's Lights Out if you want to scare the crap out of yourself in preparation for the real thing.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on September 05, 2017, 01:56:27 PM
Quote from: Gusington on September 05, 2017, 01:26:51 PM
Also read Ted Koeppel's Lights Out if you want to scare the crap out of yourself in preparation for the real thing.

All you had to say was Ted Keoppel to scare the crap out of us.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on September 05, 2017, 02:15:41 PM
Ha! Well my work is done here. Time to finish up that bunker.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on September 06, 2017, 12:03:34 AM
Quote from: mirth on September 05, 2017, 09:24:33 AM
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/13973/u-s-navys-hugely-versatile-sm-6-missile-keeps-scoring-hits

for those that are worried, no ships were run into or harmed during these tests.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 09, 2017, 07:14:13 AM
(https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/screen-shot-2017-09-06-at-1-01-25-pm.png?w=600&h=474)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 12, 2017, 08:33:12 AM
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/09/18/the-risk-of-nuclear-war-with-north-korea
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on September 14, 2017, 10:53:32 AM
So an interesting discussion has started on BGG about the Norks and Seoul in this AAR for Next War: Korea
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/26915038#26915038

I, and apparently lots of other people, have long heard that the Norks have tons of arty pointed at Seoul and that they could flatten it at the start of any hostilities with little to nothing we could do to stop it.

A gent chimed in with what appears to be first hand knowledge and makes a very good case that this is BS.
QuoteWell there part of the problem since I really doubt that those news writers have ever been there either.

The distance from Seoul to Pan Mun Jeon is approx. 35 miles or around 56 KM's.

US 155mm Arty has a range of around 30 KM's with Rocket assist Round and normal range is 22.4 KM's.

The BM-21 122mm Rocket Launcher has a max range of around 20 KM's

This link has an article about NK Arty

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/4/25/1656090/-North-Ko...

North Korea would have to setup their Arty in/near or south of Pan Mun Jeon and well that would not go unnoticed. Plus Arty is usually setup several KM's behind the lines.

So as I pointed out above most conventional Arty does not have the range necessary to fire 60+ KM's in order to reach Seoul and these Arty pieces would have to be setup to the Northeast of Seoul since the distance from the North along with the terrain blocks Seoul from that direction.

I have had the pleasure of being stationed in Korea for a total of four years; 1977-1979, 1979-1980 & 1990-1991 as an Intelligence Analyst for the US Army.

So I have driven that terrain and those hills north of Seoul would still be where they were 26 years ago.

I know there are some very knowledgeable people on this site about this theatre. If his statements are true, and they certainly make sense to me now that I think closely enough about it, where did this myth of Nork arty come from and why is it so well spread?

Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 14, 2017, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on September 14, 2017, 10:53:32 AM
where did this myth of Nork arty come from and why is it so well spread?

The media loves to play it up and it largely goes unchallenged.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on September 14, 2017, 11:08:21 AM
Quote from: mirth on September 14, 2017, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on September 14, 2017, 10:53:32 AM
where did this myth of Nork arty come from and why is it so well spread?

The media loves to play it up and it largely goes unchallenged.

Agree, but where did they get the idea.... not being smart enough to come up with it themselves....
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 14, 2017, 11:10:29 AM
The Russians of course.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on September 14, 2017, 11:11:48 AM
 ::)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 14, 2017, 11:12:38 AM
Okay, the Macedonians.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 14, 2017, 11:41:02 AM
Nork arty doctrine is based on overwhelming barrages, and a willingness to trade tubes with you during the counterbattery fight b/c they have more than you do.

The end result of that is that unless you find some other way to neutralize their arty, which will frequently just line up wheel-to-wheel and shoot at you, there's just so damn much of it that some of it is going to get thru.

Once you add up all those tubes, and do the math that the DMZ is not that far from Seoul, someone figures out that there's enough arty that can get in range to really f' the place up.

========
"Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics"

How do you get 400+ artillery pieces, crews, ammo, POL, etc close enough to Seoul to shoot, without setting off every alarm bell in the West, er... South? 
That's a logistics problem, and that's not a nut that most non-professionals can crack, or would even think about.


{digression}

The reason the Russian seizure of Crimea caught everyone off-guard, and was so devastatingly effective, was that no one saw it coming.  The Russians snuck over 10,000 guys into Crimea, with sufficient uniforms/weapons completely undetected, and when everyone woke up one morning and there were pro-Russian "militia" on every corner, no one could figure out how they got there, and it played right into the Russians' narrative - "well if they were ours, wouldn't you have seen them coming?!"
It was a logistics problem that the Russians solved in such a way that no one could do jack-all about the tactical outcome.

{/digression}

Moving that much artillery that far with no detection, especially in the sparsely-populated and well-surveilled areas around the DMZ is a whole lot different than sneaking in a lot of individuals with contraband suitcases.  We would certainly see them coming and the Norks know that.  The question is going to be "what are they doing to distract us while they wheel their artillery up there?"
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Airborne Rifles on September 14, 2017, 11:47:25 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on September 14, 2017, 10:53:32 AM
So an interesting discussion has started on BGG about the Norks and Seoul in this AAR for Next War: Korea
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/26915038#26915038

I, and apparently lots of other people, have long heard that the Norks have tons of arty pointed at Seoul and that they could flatten it at the start of any hostilities with little to nothing we could do to stop it.

A gent chimed in with what appears to be first hand knowledge and makes a very good case that this is BS.
QuoteWell there part of the problem since I really doubt that those news writers have ever been there either.

The distance from Seoul to Pan Mun Jeon is approx. 35 miles or around 56 KM's.

US 155mm Arty has a range of around 30 KM's with Rocket assist Round and normal range is 22.4 KM's.

The BM-21 122mm Rocket Launcher has a max range of around 20 KM's

This link has an article about NK Arty

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/4/25/1656090/-North-Ko...

North Korea would have to setup their Arty in/near or south of Pan Mun Jeon and well that would not go unnoticed. Plus Arty is usually setup several KM's behind the lines.

So as I pointed out above most conventional Arty does not have the range necessary to fire 60+ KM's in order to reach Seoul and these Arty pieces would have to be setup to the Northeast of Seoul since the distance from the North along with the terrain blocks Seoul from that direction.

I have had the pleasure of being stationed in Korea for a total of four years; 1977-1979, 1979-1980 & 1990-1991 as an Intelligence Analyst for the US Army.

So I have driven that terrain and those hills north of Seoul would still be where they were 26 years ago.

I know there are some very knowledgeable people on this site about this theatre. If his statements are true, and they certainly make sense to me now that I think closely enough about it, where did this myth of Nork arty come from and why is it so well spread?

A problem with this analysis is that it measures to the city center of Seoul, which, as he notes, is mostly beyond arty range. The outlying areas of the city in the northeast, however, are much closer (within 30km), and hundreds of thousands of people live there.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 14, 2017, 11:55:28 AM
If shit really kicked off in Korea, you have to imagine the Norks would start shooting off whatever chem/bio stocks they have.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on September 14, 2017, 05:56:03 PM
So N. Korea does have thousands of artillery pieces, but only the outskirts of Seoul are within range?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on September 14, 2017, 06:02:15 PM
They just launched another missile over Japan

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/n-korea-fires-missile-from-pyongyang-towards-the-east-s-korea/ar-AArWImu?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 14, 2017, 06:09:48 PM
Quote from: Gusington on September 14, 2017, 05:56:03 PM
So N. Korea does have thousands of artillery pieces, but only the outskirts of Seoul are within range?

They do have thousands of pieces. They are of mixed calibres and ranges. Getting them all within range of Seoul would be very difficult.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on September 14, 2017, 06:15:57 PM
2 out of 5 ain't bad?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 14, 2017, 06:18:17 PM
No matter what, if shooting starts it will suck for the people of Seoul.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on September 14, 2017, 06:30:36 PM
I think I posted in the this thread before, but someone pointed out, if their arty is shelling Seoul, then it's not supporting their troops.  And if their arty is supporting their troops, then it's not hammering Seoul. 
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 14, 2017, 07:04:24 PM
I guess there's a good reason, but given that we were able to knock SCUDs out of the air 25+ years ago in the First Gulf War using Patriot batteries, has it not occurred to anyone to shoot these things down?

Ignorance on my part as I'm totally unaware of how high up these Nork missiles are going, but I imagine a strong message to fat boy over there would be shooting the frigging thing down.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 14, 2017, 07:12:19 PM
It's better not to reveal what our capabilities are in regard to our ABM systems. And if we tried and failed, it would be a huge win for the Norks and very telling to other potential adversaries.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 14, 2017, 07:14:14 PM
Good point. Though I'd have thought swatting one of them down as it lifts off would be a major win. Them NOT doing so tells me someone's not too keen on our ABM capabilities.

I would have thought, too, that our ABM tech would have done nothing but improve in a quarter of a century's time, but I suppose it could go backwards, too.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on September 14, 2017, 07:21:24 PM
If you took one down and it rained all over Japan, that would be a bad thing.  It's bad enough the NORKS aren't telling anyone they're shooting them or where their aiming so shipping and aircraft can be sure to be out of the way.  But bring down a missile in the middle of Tokyo...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 14, 2017, 07:24:17 PM
There is that too. Even if we or the Japanese can hit one, the remains have to come down somewhere.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Airborne Rifles on September 14, 2017, 08:26:53 PM
The Chains of War DLC for CMANO is really interesting in how it portrays a Chinese and Nork ballistic missile vs. US ABM systems. It's just a simulation, but our ABM capabilities seem pretty robust if it's accurate, especially with the THAAD and SM-3 systems.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on September 14, 2017, 11:56:33 PM
wheres that 747 with the nose mounted laser?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 15, 2017, 05:05:36 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on September 12, 2017, 08:33:12 AM
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/09/18/the-risk-of-nuclear-war-with-north-korea


Evan Osnos of The New Yorker joins and a conversation with Marly Rivera of ESPN and Luis Miguel Echegaray of SI
SI Media Podcast With Richard Deitsch

https://art19.com/shows/si-media-podcast/episodes/c50bb0e1-465f-4f89-bd10-587338f73c12

QuoteEpisode 137 of the Sports Illustrated Media podcast features Evan Osnos, a staff writer for the New Yorker, whose latest piece from the Sept. 18, 2017 Issue is the titled "The Risk of Nuclear War with North Korea."

In this podcast, Osnos discusses his reporting inside Pyongyang; how he was able to get permission from the North Korean government to travel for his reporting; the real and perceived tension between North Korea and the United States; how Americans should view the North Korean diplomats who work in New York City; how forthcoming his North Korean minders were to him; whether he worked under the assumption that he was being filmed and his phone was tapped; how much anxiety he had on the assignment; how to report on U.S. intelligence's data on the progress of North Korea's weapons development; what North Koreans thought of Donald Trump; meeting children at the Pyongyang Orphans' Secondary School; what it was like to wake up in Pyongyang to a Donald Trump tweet on North Korea; how far he was able to extend outside the capital; whether Kim Jong-Un knew he was there; what his first 48 hours were like in North Korea, and much more.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 15, 2017, 08:47:31 AM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on September 14, 2017, 08:26:53 PM
The Chains of War DLC for CMANO is really interesting in how it portrays a Chinese and Nork ballistic missile vs. US ABM systems. It's just a simulation, but our ABM capabilities seem pretty robust if it's accurate, especially with the THAAD and SM-3 systems.

We've made a lot of progress in the last 25 years. Aegis/SM-3, in particular, seems like a very capable system. I'd give at least even money that we could knock down a Nork ballistic missile.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on September 17, 2017, 01:59:46 PM
US Ambassador Haley: the United Nations has gone as far as it can with NK.

http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/news/story/0002/20170917/KCN1BS0IN_2


Going to be a fun General Security Council this year... http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/news/us/story/0002/20170917/KCN1BS0EH_2

(By 'fun' I do not mean fun.  :( )
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on September 17, 2017, 10:58:01 PM
the problem isn't defeating north korea.
the problem is South Korea having to pay for a reunified Korea.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on September 18, 2017, 11:29:32 AM
Meh - Germany did it (over the course of 25 years), Korea can do it.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Jarhead0331 on September 18, 2017, 11:37:40 AM
Quote from: Gusington on September 18, 2017, 11:29:32 AM
Meh - Germany did it (over the course of 25 years), Korea can do it.

Correction. The US tax payer did it. Germany was rebuilt with American money, So too will be the case with South Korea...at least, whatever is left of it.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 18, 2017, 11:43:46 AM
Yeah, we'd foot most of the bill for a unified Korea.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 18, 2017, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 18, 2017, 11:37:40 AM
Germany was rebuilt with American money

West Germany was.  But post-reunification, West Germany spent a lot of their own money on 'catching up' the Osties, with massive investments in infrastructure (roads & electric grids especially), education, and technology, as well as cleaning up a lot of post-Soviet environmental messes around military bases.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on September 18, 2017, 02:37:20 PM
^Yeah what I was referring to was post-1990 in Germany. That said, rebuilding/integrating North Korea with South Korea may be more difficult and more expensive. Hard to gauge which disparity was greater - the one between East and West Germany and the one between North and South Korea.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Jarhead0331 on September 18, 2017, 02:37:53 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on September 18, 2017, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 18, 2017, 11:37:40 AM
Germany was rebuilt with American money

West Germany was.  But post-reunification, West Germany spent a lot of their own money on 'catching up' the Osties, with massive investments in infrastructure (roads & electric grids especially), education, and technology, as well as cleaning up a lot of post-Soviet environmental messes around military bases.

I presume you mean EAST Germany spent a lot of their own money after re-unification. That's not really a good comparison since that effort was not directly after a destructive war. The Post-WWII effort to rebuild West Germany is much more synonymous to what would likely occur on the Korean Peninsula when and if we destroy much of it. 
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Jarhead0331 on September 18, 2017, 02:39:31 PM
Quote from: Gusington on September 18, 2017, 02:37:20 PM
^Yeah what I was referring to was post-1990 in Germany. That said, rebuilding/integrating North Korea with South Korea may be more difficult and more expensive. Hard to gauge which disparity was greater - the one between East and West Germany and the one between North and South Korea.

Then you too are using an example that in my opinion is not as compatible to what we will see in Korea in the event of a modern war.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on September 18, 2017, 02:40:49 PM
^The effort after another Korean War would be both, a combination of the Marshall Plan and the reunification plan in Germany. And probably cost trillions. But it could be done.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Jarhead0331 on September 18, 2017, 02:44:38 PM
Quote from: Gusington on September 18, 2017, 02:40:49 PM
^The effort after another Korean War would be both, a combination of the Marshall Plan and the reunification plan in Germany. And probably cost trillions. But it could be done.

Can definitely be done. I'm just saying, we will be paying for it mostly.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 18, 2017, 03:10:59 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 18, 2017, 02:37:53 PMwhat would likely occur on the Korean Peninsula when and if we destroy much of it. 

I'm wondering if we're not just doing ourselves a favor by flattening stuff we'd have to rebuild anyway...  Start from nothing rather than try to repair crap.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on September 18, 2017, 03:26:07 PM
If the US doesn't help pay for it, the Chinese will be happy to.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on September 18, 2017, 08:52:04 PM
Not to inject politics into this but I can see a scenario where Trump's private companies eagerly help rebuild a devastated (or even mildly damaged), reunited, Korea...and make billions.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on September 18, 2017, 08:59:49 PM
Not saying your wrong Gus, but what businesses of his would be in a position to profit.  Do they already have a presence in ROK?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on September 19, 2017, 12:06:16 PM
Don't worry, I'm not saying I am right either. I just think a real estate 'mogul' with lifetime connections to construction businesses stands to make a lot of money in a recently flattened country that needs rebuilding.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 19, 2017, 12:14:02 PM
I kinda doubt the first thing a nuked Korea is going to be looking for is a Trump hotel/casino/golf resort.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on September 19, 2017, 12:14:50 PM
How about aparment blocks built for pennies on the dollar?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 19, 2017, 12:20:16 PM
We could use some of those in Portland.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on September 19, 2017, 12:24:48 PM
I know a guy...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 19, 2017, 02:56:08 PM
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/in-war-of-elton-john-lyrics-kim-jong-un-calls-trump-honky-cat
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Jarhead0331 on September 19, 2017, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on September 18, 2017, 03:10:59 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on September 18, 2017, 02:37:53 PMwhat would likely occur on the Korean Peninsula when and if we destroy much of it. 

I'm wondering if we're not just doing ourselves a favor by flattening stuff we'd have to rebuild anyway...  Start from nothing rather than try to repair crap.

Well, when you harness the power of the atom in order to level whole neighborhoods, you certainly don't have to go through the aggravating process of filing for the demolition permits.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on September 19, 2017, 03:28:14 PM
Not for centuries even!  ::)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on September 20, 2017, 03:13:11 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/09/20/kim-jong-un-plucks-teen-sex-slaves-from-schools-north-korean-defector-reveals.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 21, 2017, 06:19:41 AM
Flattening Korea will at least create thousands of construction jobs, right?

Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on September 21, 2017, 12:38:15 PM
Nevermind the 1000s of sex worker jobs to go along with those construction jobs. Star can relocate to Panmunjon and live like an emperor!
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Con on September 25, 2017, 07:17:01 AM
A pretty insightful look at what would happen with a war with North Korea and that the aftermath is more Syria than post WWII Germany.  The cost in lives including US lives is going to be huge.  A little off topic my nephew is a captain in the army flying Blackhawks getting married in 6 days at the very young age of 23 since he is deploying to Korea in a month.  Its getting very real for some of us.

http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-korean-war-20170925-story.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 25, 2017, 07:26:31 AM
^ Nice that the idiots at the LA Times failed to mention anything about the South Korean military or its prowess. It comes across as a leftist propaganda piece.

That all said, I pray it doesn't come to an actual shooting war with them. With China nebulously on the sidelines, there's no telling how far south things could go.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: CptHowdy on September 25, 2017, 07:31:21 AM
any chance of a military coup? gotta be a high ranking officer over there that will not want to commit suicide if lil kim gives the order to go to war.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on September 25, 2017, 07:34:42 AM
It's more likely there'll be a coup here :P
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Con on September 25, 2017, 08:06:21 AM
Quote from: BanzaiCat on September 25, 2017, 07:26:31 AM
^ Nice that the idiots at the LA Times failed to mention anything about the South Korean military or its prowess. It comes across as a leftist propaganda piece.

That all said, I pray it doesn't come to an actual shooting war with them. With China nebulously on the sidelines, there's no telling how far south things could go.

I didnt read it that way at all.  My take was that there was very little wiggle room if any to prevent any escalation going to nuclear war.  Nothing leftist at all its about the outcome North Korea's destruction is not in doubt the calculus is at what cost in human lives including US and that its not going to be like Germany post WWII its going to be a morass of competing external factions pouring money into a radioactive hole.

Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 25, 2017, 09:20:56 AM
Granted, Con. I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that it's a news piece that's decidedly one-sided.

Not that South Korea's strength military-wise could mitigate that. I'm just making an observation. News stories should cover all angles, not just one.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 27, 2017, 12:48:18 PM
http://tinyurl.com/unhead
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on September 27, 2017, 02:18:20 PM
Kerry would've done Little Kim himself probably back then. Hey, he was doing the Iranians two at a time.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on September 29, 2017, 11:52:23 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 11, 2017, 02:20:28 PM
https://theintercept.com/2017/07/29/dan-coats-north-korea-nukes-nuclear-libya-regime-change/

One major difference between Libya and NK.  Libya didn't have a protected when their civil war started and NATO intervened.  Russia wasn't willing/able to come to Gaddafi's aid.

China will do everything in it's power to keep NK there as a buffer between them and a strong US ally. 
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on October 09, 2017, 06:29:01 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/opinion/sunday/nuclear-north-korea.html?_r=0
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on October 10, 2017, 12:43:54 PM
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/15009/north-korean-hackers-stole-us-and-south-korea-decapitation-plans-months-ago
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: RedArgo on October 10, 2017, 03:31:09 PM
So just a general question related to this hacking, why are top secret military plans and critical infrastructure controls connected to the internet?  If it can be connected to it will be at some point.  Seems like a completely separate network for this type of stuff would be a good idea.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on October 10, 2017, 07:46:10 PM
^Yeah I don't really understand that either.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: jomni on October 10, 2017, 10:35:22 PM
Quote from: Gusington on October 10, 2017, 07:46:10 PM
^Yeah I don't really understand that either.

It's a trap! Probably intentional.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Airborne Rifles on October 11, 2017, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: Gusington on October 10, 2017, 07:46:10 PM
^Yeah I don't really understand that either.

Well, when you have very senior officials at, say, the State Department who decide to keep stuff like this on private servers in their home...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on October 11, 2017, 10:05:33 AM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 11, 2017, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: Gusington on October 10, 2017, 07:46:10 PM
^Yeah I don't really understand that either.

Well, when you have very senior officials at, say, the State Department who decide to keep stuff like this on private servers in their home...

O0
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on October 11, 2017, 10:09:10 AM
Lordy...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on October 11, 2017, 11:26:24 AM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 11, 2017, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: Gusington on October 10, 2017, 07:46:10 PM
^Yeah I don't really understand that either.

Well, when you have very senior officials at, say, the State Department who decide to keep stuff like this on private servers in their home...

and, apparently, the White House (at least, for the past 8-9 months)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on October 11, 2017, 11:34:06 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 11, 2017, 11:26:24 AM
and, apparently, the White House (at least, for the past 8-9 months)

It's just some emails. Everyone else did it. Ask Colin Powell and Condi Rice.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on October 11, 2017, 12:28:43 PM
God help us all.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Airborne Rifles on October 11, 2017, 12:59:30 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 11, 2017, 11:26:24 AM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on October 11, 2017, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: Gusington on October 10, 2017, 07:46:10 PM
^Yeah I don't really understand that either.

Well, when you have very senior officials at, say, the State Department who decide to keep stuff like this on private servers in their home...

and, apparently, the White House (at least, for the past 8-9 months)

Or, in the case of South Korea, you share state secrets with the daughter of your cult leader:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_South_Korean_political_scandal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_South_Korean_political_scandal)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on October 11, 2017, 01:51:07 PM
 :'(
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on October 16, 2017, 01:53:21 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/10/16/north-korea-suspected-source-mad-dog-trump-leaflets.html

Interesting and weird propaganda.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on October 17, 2017, 03:30:21 PM
Did someone post this National Review article from Stephen Meyer yet?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451420/north-korea-missile-threat-answers-exist

Essentially his proposal is to hit boost-phase Nork missiles with loitering UAV kinetic counter-missile shots. Then again, his forte is biology not modern weapon platforms, so...  ???
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on October 20, 2017, 12:43:22 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2017/10/20/north-koreas-stressed-nuclear-test-mountain-on-verge-collapse.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on October 20, 2017, 02:02:10 PM
LOL!  They could end all the trouble by testing another device and collapse the hill on themselves...  :DD

Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Pete Dero on October 31, 2017, 07:40:13 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on October 20, 2017, 02:02:10 PM
LOL!  They could end all the trouble by testing another device and collapse the hill on themselves...  :DD

Here you go :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/31/collapse-north-korea-nuclear-test-site-leaves-200-dead/

A tunnel at a North Korean nuclear test site collapsed this month and killed an estimated 200 people, according to multiple reports.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on October 31, 2017, 07:55:16 AM
Quote from: Pete Dero on October 31, 2017, 07:40:13 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on October 20, 2017, 02:02:10 PM
LOL!  They could end all the trouble by testing another device and collapse the hill on themselves...  :DD

Here you go :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/31/collapse-north-korea-nuclear-test-site-leaves-200-dead/

A tunnel at a North Korean nuclear test site collapsed this month and killed an estimated 200 people, according to multiple reports.

:clap:  <:-)  :bd:  :DD
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on October 31, 2017, 07:58:56 AM
Feel sorry for the poor drones forced to work there though.  :'(
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on October 31, 2017, 08:21:14 AM
http://freekorea.us/2017/10/05/there-is-a-north-korean-resistance/#sthash.CekUSmCR.dpbs
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on October 31, 2017, 08:23:37 PM
Weird Al for President!

Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on November 07, 2017, 10:38:02 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/11/07/north-koreas-nuclear-test-site-causing-deformed-babies-killing-vegetation-defectors-say.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on November 07, 2017, 12:49:05 PM
So THAT'S what happened to Little Kim. Jung Un I mean, not Kardashian.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on November 07, 2017, 12:52:55 PM
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 07, 2017, 12:49:05 PM
So THAT'S what happened to Little Kim. Jung Un I mean, not Kardashian.

Also explains Kimmie K's posterior.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on November 07, 2017, 01:32:33 PM
I did hear that it glows in the dark.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on November 28, 2017, 03:51:44 PM
Hold on to your butts.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/935611070022119424 (https://twitter.com/AP/status/935611070022119424)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on November 28, 2017, 07:33:13 PM
Better play those new games while we still can.  :-\
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on November 28, 2017, 07:38:05 PM
I'm gonna be pissed if the world ends before I can finish Deserts of Kharak.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on November 28, 2017, 08:06:30 PM
Quote from: mirth on November 28, 2017, 03:51:44 PM
Hold on to your butts.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/935611070022119424 (https://twitter.com/AP/status/935611070022119424)

Aw, man! I'm supposed to retire in five years.  :-\
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on November 28, 2017, 08:59:06 PM
I have a concrete floor in my basement. How can I dig deeper?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on November 28, 2017, 11:24:58 PM
a trench line in the yard with razor wire and mines.
tell the woman youre manscaping.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on November 29, 2017, 09:17:41 AM
My yard is basically a hillside with tons of massive stones, iron deposits and rock...God help me I may have to subcontract to Breezy.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on November 29, 2017, 09:47:27 AM
Quote from: Gusington on November 29, 2017, 09:17:41 AM
My yard is basically a hillside with tons of massive stones, iron deposits and rock...God help me I may have to subcontract to Breezy.

Sounds like prime 7 Days to Die territory!  >:D
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on November 29, 2017, 09:48:13 AM
^That's true. All you need  now is a forge!
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on November 29, 2017, 09:58:55 AM
Hmm you both may be on to something...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on November 29, 2017, 01:10:52 PM
http://www.majesticforge.com
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Windigo on November 29, 2017, 01:28:59 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 29, 2017, 09:17:41 AM
My yard is basically a hillside with tons of massive stones, iron deposits and rock...God help me I may have to subcontract to Breezy.

Its the fallout that will getcha. If you want to pick rocks while the world burns... *shrug*

On the plus side you could play with dynamite and blast a hillside bunker space. talk to your local concrete company about special blends. Plan for space for your family +1 ... for that honey that lives down the road, or humanitarian purposes of course.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on November 29, 2017, 01:37:26 PM
My concrete floored basement is already built in to said hillside. Some subcontractor you are!
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on November 29, 2017, 03:21:29 PM
I'm planning on making a run for the Everglades. Nothing to bomb there. However, once the fallout turns the pythons there into giant, mutant pythons, I'll be heading back home.  :uglystupid2:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on November 29, 2017, 03:23:55 PM
I thought they were already giganic mutants...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on November 29, 2017, 08:27:41 PM
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/16541/here-are-the-photos-of-north-koreas-monster-missile-youve-been-waiting-to-see
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on November 29, 2017, 11:30:36 PM
If Little Kim wants nukes, I think we should send him some of ours.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Windigo on November 30, 2017, 12:13:36 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 29, 2017, 01:37:26 PM
My concrete floored basement is already built in to said hillside. Some subcontractor you are!

A subcontractor that wants to play with dynamite......   how about a basement in the side of the hill for your doghouse? Or alcove hot-tub location?   Just means less dynamite  :-[
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on December 01, 2017, 08:49:12 PM
I'll think about it.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on December 01, 2017, 09:10:26 PM
Quote from: Windigo on November 30, 2017, 12:13:36 PM
Just means less dynamite  :-[

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.turtlegarage.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F05%2FDynomite.jpg&hash=46f0615aa39b736100ec5c1d43989367ede43c0c)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on December 03, 2017, 03:21:20 PM
 :2funny:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on December 04, 2017, 02:44:25 PM
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/16648/f-22s-f-35s-join-hundreds-of-us-and-south-korean-jets-in-drill-as-fears-of-war-rise
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on December 20, 2017, 01:06:03 PM
It is not a nuke, but anthrax on a ICBM. 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/12/20/north-korea-begins-testing-anthrax-onto-icbm-report-says.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on December 20, 2017, 01:32:39 PM
Whew that's a relief...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on December 20, 2017, 01:39:28 PM
Why bother with the anthrax? We'd glass the whole damn country either way.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on December 20, 2017, 01:45:32 PM
I wonder what our response would be if LA was nerfed 'only' with anthrax.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on December 20, 2017, 01:48:50 PM
Historically, it's been our policy to treat all WMDs the same. So if we're hit with a chem attack, we'd respond the same as if it were a nuke. Who knows with Commander Cuckoo Bananas at them helm though. He'd probably say good riddance to LA.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on December 20, 2017, 01:53:15 PM
'It's a great deal, I tell you. Not only did I eliminate the one anthrax armed ICBM that N. Korea had, but I got them to take away that hive of scum and villainy of LA too! Jenius.'
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on December 20, 2017, 01:54:06 PM
That would be the Tweet.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on December 20, 2017, 02:11:29 PM
Anthrax wouldn't survive re-entry....  L:-)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on December 20, 2017, 02:20:08 PM
Great - now you spoiled the surprise for the Koreans and Trump.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on December 20, 2017, 02:29:24 PM
The other surprise will be when the anthrax gets loose and spreads in North Korea!  ::)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on December 20, 2017, 02:33:48 PM
Who could tell the difference?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on December 20, 2017, 02:39:12 PM
^no one
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on December 20, 2017, 02:43:12 PM
~fin~
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on December 20, 2017, 03:05:07 PM
Quote from: Gusington on December 20, 2017, 01:45:32 PM
I wonder what our response would be if LA was nerfed 'only' with anthrax.

US nat'l defense doctrine is that if we are attacked with chem/bio, we'd treat it as a nuclear attack and respond in kind.  Mainly b/c we don't stock high-level chem weapons
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on December 20, 2017, 03:09:15 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on December 20, 2017, 03:05:07 PM
Quote from: Gusington on December 20, 2017, 01:45:32 PM
I wonder what our response would be if LA was nerfed 'only' with anthrax.

US nat'l defense doctrine is that if we are attacked with chem/bio, we'd treat it as a nuclear attack and respond in kind.  Mainly b/c we don't stock high-level chem weapons

Is there an echo in here?

Quote from: mirth on December 20, 2017, 01:48:50 PM
Historically, it's been our policy to treat all WMDs the same. So if we're hit with a chem attack, we'd respond the same as if it were a nuke. Who knows with Commander Cuckoo Bananas at them helm though. He'd probably say good riddance to LA.

Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on December 20, 2017, 03:15:11 PM
I wonder what our response would be if LA was nerfed 'only' with anthrax?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on December 20, 2017, 03:22:49 PM
^lmao
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on December 20, 2017, 03:25:37 PM
 O0
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Windigo on December 20, 2017, 03:26:25 PM
I 'wonder' what our response would be if LA was nerfed only with anthrax?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on December 20, 2017, 03:26:57 PM
The MSM would blame it on AGW.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Windigo on December 20, 2017, 03:30:32 PM
Quote from: mirth on December 20, 2017, 03:26:57 PM
The MSM would blame it on AGW.

fake news....
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on December 20, 2017, 03:38:37 PM
I wonder what our fake news would do if - meh never mind.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Windigo on December 20, 2017, 03:39:59 PM
say it!....... SAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY EEEEETT!
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on December 20, 2017, 03:46:17 PM
It.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on December 20, 2017, 03:47:00 PM
http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot&play=true
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on December 20, 2017, 03:47:27 PM
Quote from: mirth on December 20, 2017, 03:09:15 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on December 20, 2017, 03:05:07 PM
Quote from: Gusington on December 20, 2017, 01:45:32 PM
I wonder what our response would be if LA was nerfed 'only' with anthrax.

US nat'l defense doctrine is that if we are attacked with chem/bio, we'd treat it as a nuclear attack and respond in kind.  Mainly b/c we don't stock high-level chem weapons

Is there an echo in here?

Quote from: mirth on December 20, 2017, 01:48:50 PM
Historically, it's been our policy to treat all WMDs the same. So if we're hit with a chem attack, we'd respond the same as if it were a nuke. Who knows with Commander Cuckoo Bananas at them helm though. He'd probably say good riddance to LA.



A decent IT guy would be able to fix that
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on December 20, 2017, 03:48:03 PM
Where to find one...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on December 20, 2017, 03:49:10 PM
Local jails are a good place to start.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on December 20, 2017, 07:16:20 PM
Or go to Goodwill and see who's hanging around the old appliance and vintage electronics shelves.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on December 20, 2017, 07:46:11 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on December 20, 2017, 07:16:20 PM
Or go to Goodwill and see who's hanging around the old appliance and vintage electronics shelves.

I spend a lot of time there.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on December 20, 2017, 07:49:05 PM
What, you?!



What's your latest find?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on December 20, 2017, 07:49:50 PM
Scooby Doo wall clock.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on December 20, 2017, 08:04:51 PM
Cool. I found a Pratt&Whitney coffee mug. Now I use it at work.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on December 20, 2017, 08:10:40 PM
^good find.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on December 20, 2017, 08:24:39 PM
About ten or fifteen years ago the GW near me had a boxed Dragon 1:6 scale PaK36 improbably on on display near the entrance. At the time I didn't have the funds to acquire it so I came back after payday but, alas, was too late.  :(



I smell a new thread on the horizon...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on December 20, 2017, 11:50:39 PM
that smell isnt what you think it is.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on December 21, 2017, 04:39:51 AM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 20, 2017, 11:50:39 PM
that smell isnt what you think it is.

You cut one again? It was the egg salad, wasn't it?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Airborne Rifles on December 21, 2017, 08:10:54 AM
You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kim-jong-un-expands-war-025755167.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/kim-jong-un-expands-war-025755167.html)

QuoteNorth Korean leader Kim Jong Un has upped the ante in his war on Christmas with a new rule that prohibits any "gatherings that involve alcohol and singing."
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on December 21, 2017, 09:02:07 AM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on December 21, 2017, 08:10:54 AM
You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kim-jong-un-expands-war-025755167.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/kim-jong-un-expands-war-025755167.html)

QuoteNorth Korean leader Kim Jong Un has upped the ante in his war on Christmas with a new rule that prohibits any "gatherings that involve alcohol and singing."

Leaving North Koreans with the option of standing perfectly still in complete silence.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on December 21, 2017, 09:07:15 AM
No more alcohol and singing at the tributes to the Glorious Leader!

...so, can we pick one?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on December 28, 2017, 09:10:38 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/documents-shed-light-on-north-koreas-startling-gains-in-sea-based-missile-technology/2017/12/27/dd82878a-e749-11e7-ab50-621fe0588340_story.html?utm_term=.18f73291991a
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 28, 2017, 09:12:21 AM
You'd think there'd be a point where the people just can't take it any more.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on December 29, 2017, 08:59:43 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/12/29/north-korean-nuclear-scientist-who-defected-to-china-kills-himself-after-forced-to-return.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on December 29, 2017, 11:43:13 AM
Not a NORK article, but seems like something they would attempt

https://twitter.com/hwelectric/status/946170091661676544
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on January 04, 2018, 06:46:10 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/01/04/north-korea-accidentally-crashed-missile-into-its-own-city-last-april-report.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on January 04, 2018, 07:36:07 AM
Trumps missile crashed into NYC decades ago.

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-24-2015/qMgfOd.gif)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on January 04, 2018, 08:32:22 AM
http://thefederalist.com/2016/12/23/americas-nuclear-response-procedure-explained-using-gifs-from-friends/
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 09, 2018, 02:03:04 PM
https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/world/north-korea-taking-part-in-south-korean-olympics-after-talks-1.3751239

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_at_the_2018_Winter_Olympics

How 'bout that.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on January 11, 2018, 09:54:34 AM
https://theaviationist.com/2017/10/30/here-are-some-interesting-details-about-the-way-u-s-b-2-bombers-trained-over-the-u-s-to-strike-north-korea/
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on January 11, 2018, 09:56:10 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on January 04, 2018, 08:32:22 AM
http://thefederalist.com/2016/12/23/americas-nuclear-response-procedure-explained-using-gifs-from-friends/ (http://thefederalist.com/2016/12/23/americas-nuclear-response-procedure-explained-using-gifs-from-friends/)


:2funny:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Pete Dero on January 11, 2018, 10:07:34 AM
https://www.thedailybeast.com/no-matter-how-popular-the-notion-is-in-dc-lets-not-start-a-not-so-splendid-global-war-by-striking-north-korea?ref=home?ref=home

The Wall Street Journal reported Tuesday that Trump administration officials are considering adopting a "bloody nose" strategy, in other words, they are preparing to strike a limited number of North Korean facilities if there is another provocative missile launch or nuclear detonation.

Earlier, the Telegraph, the London paper, reported the administration was "dramatically" increasing the tempo of its planning for such an action.

The fear is that Kim would retaliate against Seoul, which sits within range of his artillery, tucked into the hills just north of the Demilitarized Zone. Jennifer Rubin in The Washington Post on Monday lists horrific casualty estimates resulting from an attack on the South Korean capital.

There is, despite everything, a powerful argument why Kim Jong Un would suffer a loss of his facilities in silence. An all-out war, which would follow his devastating attack on Seoul, would almost surely lead to the end of his regime. David Allan Adams and others sensibly argue that Kim retaliating against the South Korean capital would be "irrational."

Simply stated, many in the Washington policy community think a strike on North Korean facilities will be painless, a "splendid little war" to borrow a term Americans once used. What they are not saying is that it could easily turn into a conflict across the globe and even result in history's first nuclear exchange. I guess they think these risks are not relevant.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on January 11, 2018, 10:08:57 AM
Oh God
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on January 11, 2018, 10:32:39 AM
https://medium.com/foreign-policy/its-time-to-bomb-north-korea-dc77b27473c4

QuoteIt's Time to Bomb North Korea
Destroying Pyongyang's nuclear arsenal is still in America's national interest.

By Edward Luttwak

Nothing can be known about this week's talks between North and South Korea other than their likely outcome. As in every previous encounter, South Korea will almost certainly reward North Korea's outrageous misconduct by handing over substantial sums of money, thus negating long-overdue sanctions recently imposed by the United Nations Security Council. Meanwhile, the North will continue to make progress toward its goal of deploying several nuclear-armed, mobile intercontinental ballistic missiles, having already tested nuclear-explosive devices in October 2006, May 2009, February 2013, January 2016, September 2016, and September 2017

Each test would have been an excellent occasion for the United States to finally decide to do to North Korea what Israel did to Iraq in 1981, and to Syria in 2007 — namely, use well-aimed conventional weapons to deny nuclear weapons to regimes that shouldn't have firearms, let alone weapons of mass destruction. Fortunately, there is still time for Washington to launch such an attack to destroy North Korea's nuclear arsenal. It should be earnestly considered rather than rejected out of hand.

Of course, there are reasons not to act against North Korea. But the most commonly cited ones are far weaker than generally acknowledged.

One mistaken reason to avoid attacking North Korea is the fear of direct retaliation. The U.S. intelligence community has reportedly claimed that North Korea already has ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads that can reach as far as the United States. But this is almost certainly an exaggeration, or rather an anticipation of a future that could still be averted by prompt action. The first North Korean nuclear device that could potentially be miniaturized into a warhead for a long-range ballistic missile was tested on September 3, 2017, while its first full-scale ICBM was only tested on November 28, 2017. If the North Koreans have managed to complete the full-scale engineering development and initial production of operational ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads in the short time since then — and on their tiny total budget — then their mastery of science and engineering would be entirely unprecedented and utterly phenomenal. It is altogether more likely that they have yet to match warheads and missiles into an operational weapon.

It's true that North Korea could retaliate for any attack by using its conventional rocket artillery against the South Korean capital of Seoul and its surroundings, where almost 20 million inhabitants live within 35 miles of the armistice line. U.S. military officers have cited the fear of a "sea of fire" to justify inaction. But this vulnerability should not paralyze U.S. policy for one simple reason: It is very largely self-inflicted.

When then-U.S. President Jimmy Carter decided to withdraw all U.S. Army troops from South Korea 40 years ago (ultimately a division was left behind), the defense advisors brought in to help — including myself — urged the Korean government to move its ministries and bureaucrats well away from the country's northern border and to give strong relocation incentives to private companies. South Korea was also told to mandate proper shelters, as in Zurich for example, where every new building must have its own (under bombardment, casualties increase dramatically if people leave their homes to seek shelter). In recent years, moreover, South Korea has had the option of importing, at moderate cost, Iron Dome batteries, which are produced by both Israel and the United States, that would be capable of intercepting 95 percent of North Korean rockets headed to inhabited structures.

But over these past four decades, South Korean governments have done practically nothing along these lines. The 3,257 officially listed "shelters" in the Seoul area are nothing more than underground shopping malls, subway stations, and hotel parking lots without any stocks of food or water, medical kits or gas masks. As for importing Iron Dome batteries, the South Koreans have preferred to spend their money on developing a bomber aimed at Japan.

Even now, casualties could still be drastically reduced by a crash resilience program. This should involve clearing out and hardening with jacks, props, and steel beams the basements of buildings of all sizes; promptly stocking necessities in the 3,257 official shelters and sign-posting them more visibly; and, of course, evacuating as many as possible beforehand (most of the 20 million or so at risk would be quite safe even just 20 miles further to the south). The United States, for its part, should consider adding vigorous counterbattery attacks to any airstrike on North Korea.

Nonetheless, given South Korea's deliberate inaction over many years, any damage ultimately done to Seoul cannot be allowed to paralyze the United States in the face of immense danger to its own national interests, and to those of its other allies elsewhere in the world. North Korea is already unique in selling its ballistic missiles, to Iran most notably; it's not difficult to imagine it selling nuclear weapons, too.

Another frequently cited reason for the United States to abstain from an attack — that it would be very difficult to pull off — is even less convincing. The claim is that destroying North Korean nuclear facilities would require many thousands of bombing sorties. But all North Korean nuclear facilities — the known, the probable, and the possible — almost certainly add up to less than fewer dozen installations, most of them quite small. Under no reasonable military plan would destroying those facilities demand thousands of airstrikes.

Unfortunately, this would not be the first time that U.S. military planning proved unreasonable. The United States Air Force habitually rejects one-time strikes, insisting instead on the total "Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses." This is a peculiar conceit whereby every single air-defense radar, surface-to-air missile, airstrip, and combat aircraft in a given country must be bombed to destruction to safeguard U.S. pilots from any danger, instead of just bombing the targets that actually matter. Given that North Korea's radars, missiles, and aircraft are badly outdated, with their antique electronics long since countermeasured, the Air Force's requirements are nothing but an excuse for inaction. Yes, a more limited air attack might miss a wheelbarrow or two, but North Korea has no nuclear-warhead mobile missile launchers to miss — not yet.

Perhaps the only good reason to hesitate before ordering an attack on North Korea is China. But that's not because Beijing would intervene against the United States. The notion that China is North Korea's all-around protector is badly out of date. Yes, the Chinese do not want to see North Korea disappear with U.S. troops moving up to the Yalu River and China's border. But President Xi Jinping's support for maximum economic sanctions, including a de facto blockade of oil imports — a classic act of war — amounts to a change of sides when it comes to North Korean nuclear weapons. Anybody who believes China would act on North Korea's behalf in the event of an American attack against its nuclear installations has not been paying attention.

But China's shift has surfaced a quite different reason for the United States not to bomb: While North Korea's acquisition of nuclear weapons is of course very dangerous, it does ensure its independence from Chinese influence. In a post-strike scenario, the Pyongyang regime might well crumble, with the country becoming a Chinese ward. That could give Beijing dominant influence over South Korea as well, given the preference of some South Koreans — including President Moon Jae-in, according to reports — for Chinese as opposed to American patronage. A China-dominated Korean Peninsula would make Japan less secure and the United States much less of a Pacific power.

In theory, a post-attack North Korea in chaos could be rescued by the political unification of the peninsula, with the United States assuaging Chinese concerns by promptly moving its troops further south, instead of moving them north. In practice, however, this would be a difficult plan to carry out, not least because South Korea's government and its population are generally unwilling to share their prosperity with the miserably poor northerners, as the West Germans once did with their East German compatriots.

For now, it seems clear that U.S. military authorities have foreclosed a pre-emptive military option. But the United States could still spare the world the vast dangers of a North Korea with nuclear-armed long-range missiles if it acts in the remaining months before they become operational.

It's true that India, Israel, and Pakistan all have those weapons, with no catastrophic consequences so far. But each has proven its reliability in ways that North Korea has not. Their embassies, for instance, don't sell hard drugs or traffic in forged banknotes. More pertinently, those other countries have gone through severe crises, and even fought wars, without ever mentioning nuclear weapons, let alone threatening their use as Kim Jong Un already has. North Korea is different, and U.S. policy should recognize that reality before it is too late.

Edward Luttwak is a senior associate at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and the author of Strategy: The Logic of War and Peace.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: MikeGER on January 11, 2018, 10:39:44 AM
Quote from: Pete Dero on January 11, 2018, 10:07:34 AM
The fear is that Kim would retaliate against Seoul, which sits within range of his artillery, tucked into the hills just north of the Demilitarized Zone. Jennifer Rubin in The Washington Post on Monday lists horrific casualty estimates resulting from an attack on the South Korean capital.


the South Korean can set up (or maybe have already :) ) an Iron Dome and esp an Iron Beam network 
...they have the money to buy it and tech-tier level to have even their own development

with enuf Iron Beam domes set up artillery shell rain on Seoul could be rendered ineffective until counter battery fire took out those gun emplacements, those that where not already preemptive neutralized within the Bloody Nose strike         
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Pete Dero on January 11, 2018, 11:03:45 AM
Quote from: MikeGER on January 11, 2018, 10:39:44 AM
Quote from: Pete Dero on January 11, 2018, 10:07:34 AM
The fear is that Kim would retaliate against Seoul, which sits within range of his artillery, tucked into the hills just north of the Demilitarized Zone. Jennifer Rubin in The Washington Post on Monday lists horrific casualty estimates resulting from an attack on the South Korean capital.


the South Korean can set up (or maybe have already :) ) an Iron Dome and esp an Iron Beam network 
...they have the money to buy it and tech-tier level to have even their own development

with enuf Iron Beam domes set up artillery shell rain on Seoul could be rendered ineffective until counter battery fire took out those gun emplacements, those that where not already preemptive neutralized within the Bloody Nose strike       

https://www.thedailybeast.com/when-we-almost-went-to-war-with-north-korea?ref=author

As Lee Sung-Yoon of Tuft's Fletcher School told The Daily Beast, Ashton Carter, while an assistant secretary of defense during the first North Korean nuclear crisis in the mid-1990s, spent months war-gaming the North Korean reaction to a U.S. bombing of the Yongbyon nuclear reactor. "It very well may have been self-deterrence," Lee says, "but the risk was thought to be unbearable."

Almost 26 million people live in the Seoul metropolitan area, which is only about 30 miles south of the Demilitarized Zone separating the two Koreas. Casualties in a general conflict on the peninsula could number in the hundreds of thousands—in the first hours. That was the case in 1994, and that is even more true today when the North's weapons are far more destructive.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/01/08/trumps-military-option-for-north-korea-is-not-an-option/?utm_term=.abe1219f8d6c

The scope of such a conflict would be beyond anything we have seen in the lives of most Americans. The Congressional Research Service finds that "an escalation of a military conflict on the peninsula could affect upwards of 25 million people on either side of the border, including at least 100,000 U.S. citizens (some estimates range as high as 500,000). Even if the DPRK uses only its conventional munitions (which most analysts believe would be unlikely given North Korea's arsenal of WMD capabilities), some estimates range from between 30,000 and 300,000 dead in the first days of fighting, given that DPRK artillery is thought by some to be capable of firing 10,000 rounds per minute at Seoul."
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on January 11, 2018, 11:05:36 AM
Quote from: MikeGER on January 11, 2018, 10:39:44 AM
the South Korean can set up (or maybe have already :) ) an Iron Dome and esp an Iron Beam network 
...they have the money to buy it and tech-tier level to have even their own development

with enuf Iron Beam domes set up artillery shell rain on Seoul could be rendered ineffective until counter battery fire took out those gun emplacements, those that where not already preemptive neutralized within the Bloody Nose strike         

I'm not sure you have a real appreciation for how much damage even a battalion-6 can do with DPICM in an urban area.  By all accounts the Norks have a whole lot more than 18 tubes in range of Seoul
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Pete Dero on January 11, 2018, 11:07:42 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on January 11, 2018, 11:05:36 AM
Quote from: MikeGER on January 11, 2018, 10:39:44 AM
the South Korean can set up (or maybe have already :) ) an Iron Dome and esp an Iron Beam network 
...they have the money to buy it and tech-tier level to have even their own development

with enuf Iron Beam domes set up artillery shell rain on Seoul could be rendered ineffective until counter battery fire took out those gun emplacements, those that where not already preemptive neutralized within the Bloody Nose strike         

I'm not sure you have a real appreciation for how much damage even a battalion-6 can do with DPICM in an urban area.  By all accounts the Norks have a whole lot more than 18 tubes in range of Seoul

As mentioned in the article above : DPRK artillery is thought by some to be capable of firing 10,000 rounds per minute at Seoul.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on January 11, 2018, 11:12:13 AM
Way back in Sept. we had a discussion about the arty capability of the Norks. I don't think anything has changed so maybe a pre-strike by the US would work as they think it would.....

Quote from: Barthheart on September 14, 2017, 10:53:32 AM
So an interesting discussion has started on BGG about the Norks and Seoul in this AAR for Next War: Korea
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/26915038#26915038

I, and apparently lots of other people, have long heard that the Norks have tons of arty pointed at Seoul and that they could flatten it at the start of any hostilities with little to nothing we could do to stop it.

A gent chimed in with what appears to be first hand knowledge and makes a very good case that this is BS.
QuoteWell there part of the problem since I really doubt that those news writers have ever been there either.

The distance from Seoul to Pan Mun Jeon is approx. 35 miles or around 56 KM's.

US 155mm Arty has a range of around 30 KM's with Rocket assist Round and normal range is 22.4 KM's.

The BM-21 122mm Rocket Launcher has a max range of around 20 KM's

This link has an article about NK Arty

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/4/25/1656090/-North-Ko...

North Korea would have to setup their Arty in/near or south of Pan Mun Jeon and well that would not go unnoticed. Plus Arty is usually setup several KM's behind the lines.

So as I pointed out above most conventional Arty does not have the range necessary to fire 60+ KM's in order to reach Seoul and these Arty pieces would have to be setup to the Northeast of Seoul since the distance from the North along with the terrain blocks Seoul from that direction.

I have had the pleasure of being stationed in Korea for a total of four years; 1977-1979, 1979-1980 & 1990-1991 as an Intelligence Analyst for the US Army.

So I have driven that terrain and those hills north of Seoul would still be where they were 26 years ago.

I know there are some very knowledgeable people on this site about this theatre. If his statements are true, and they certainly make sense to me now that I think closely enough about it, where did this myth of Nork arty come from and why is it so well spread?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on January 11, 2018, 11:19:15 AM
New Winter Olympic event this time.... the 1000 meter Bomb Shelter Dig. South Korea is favored to win BIG.  :-"
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Pete Dero on January 11, 2018, 11:37:30 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on January 11, 2018, 11:12:13 AM
Way back in Sept. we had a discussion about the arty capability of the Norks. I don't think anything has changed so maybe a pre-strike by the US would work as they think it would.....

(https://blogs-images.forbes.com/niallmccarthy/files/2017/10/20171002_NK_Artillery_Map_Forbes.jpg?width=960)

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/how-north-korea-would-retaliate

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/could-north-korea-annihilate-seoul-its-artillery-20345

(Don't know how reliable these sources are)

North Korea has also managed to turn its heavy artillery, particularly corps level 170-millimeter Koksan guns, 240-millimeter heavy rockets and new 300-millimeter MRLs into weapons of mass destruction.
Iran acquired a number of M1978 Koksan guns from North Korea in 1987. "At that time, it was the longest-range field gun made anywhere in the world, capable of firing a rocket-assisted projectile to a range of almost 60 kilometers
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on January 11, 2018, 11:44:09 AM
StratFor is pretty reliable
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on January 11, 2018, 08:39:53 PM
So besides Seoul and Inchon, those other front line cities would also be wiped out...basically nuked with or without nukes.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 18, 2018, 07:23:49 AM
I'm guessing their ordinance would be in working condition, yes? I mean, they didn't manufacture it themselves, and possibly got it from the Russians or more likely, Chinese.

I admit utter ignorance of this, but is there a failure rate in artillery shells?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on January 18, 2018, 08:50:09 AM
Quote from: BanzaiCat on January 18, 2018, 07:23:49 AMI'm guessing their ordinance would be in working condition, yes?
Yes, their laws are in working condition.  Their ordnance probably is, too.


Quote from: BanzaiCat on January 18, 2018, 07:23:49 AMI mean, they didn't manufacture it themselves, and possibly got it from the Russians or more likely, Chinese.
Basic arty shells aren't tough to build yourself.  Even variable timing fuses aren't too difficult.  Making big bullets and having a competent military logistics system capable of delivering it when/where you need it without just creating giant piles of rounds begging for counter-battery fire.

Quote from: BanzaiCat on January 18, 2018, 07:23:49 AMI admit utter ignorance of this, but is there a failure rate in artillery shells?
The shells themselves tend to shoot out of the tubes just fine regardless of manufacture.  If they explode in the tube, it's usually a faulty tube, not the shell.  The 'dud' rounds are those whose fuses didn't work properly for them to explode at the other end.  Those failure rates are very, very low (<1%) with normal manufacture, but no one has gotten their hands on a Nork one to examine it.  If there was a Nork dud over the past 15-20 years (based on arty duels with the Southies) no one has publicly acknowledged it.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on January 31, 2018, 07:32:40 PM
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18139/us-missile-defense-test-fails-as-n-korea-plans-parade-with-hundreds-of-ballistic-missiles
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on January 31, 2018, 07:34:19 PM
Soon we will be able to play Gamma World for real!  :bd:  :hide:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on January 31, 2018, 07:43:39 PM
ROAD WARRIOR!!!!
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on January 31, 2018, 08:15:36 PM
Two blowhards enter, one blowhard leaves!
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on January 31, 2018, 08:18:54 PM
Quote from: bbmike on January 31, 2018, 08:15:36 PM
Two blowhards enter, "Game over, man!"

FIFY
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on January 31, 2018, 08:24:25 PM
Two dotards enter. Covfefe!
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on January 31, 2018, 11:16:04 PM
Two Grogheads enter.....  And then fight over who got there first.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on February 01, 2018, 05:00:25 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on January 31, 2018, 11:16:04 PM
Two Grogheads enter.....  And then fight over who got there first.

"Look at page 17 of the rules. Section 21.1.25 paragraph 3, "The player who enters Thunderdome shall be considered first ...."

"Ah ha! Did you see the errata posted on the Thunderdome website?"
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on February 01, 2018, 11:46:46 AM
Rules are only for the 'Cool Kids'.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 01, 2018, 11:51:55 AM
Quote from: mirth on February 01, 2018, 05:00:25 AM
"Look at page 17 of the rules. Section 21.1.25 paragraph 3, "The player who enters Thunderdome shall be considered first ...."

"Ah ha! Did you see the errata posted on the Thunderdome website?"

"That errata was released two days before version 2.0 was posted, so it doesn't count in the main canon. Only a total newb would consider including it in their game, like Psionics. Pfft."  :nerd: :nerd: :nerd:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on February 01, 2018, 12:58:13 PM
The only rules for Grogheads are the same ones for Fight Club.  :-X
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on February 01, 2018, 01:00:08 PM
Quote from: Sir Slash on February 01, 2018, 12:58:13 PM
The only rules for Grogheads are the same ones for Fight Club.  :-X

Don't talk about the Front Page
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on February 01, 2018, 04:14:26 PM
What Front Page? Oppps, I said it didn't I? 20 Lashes with Bob's old Horsewhip for me.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bob48 on February 01, 2018, 04:27:34 PM
You wish!

A sadist is someone who is kind to a masochist.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on February 09, 2018, 01:13:32 PM
https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/962026045225385990
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on February 09, 2018, 01:18:14 PM
Hmm...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Airborne Rifles on February 09, 2018, 01:18:54 PM
^ You know, when they put it that way it's actually pretty hard to argue with their logic O:-)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on February 09, 2018, 01:22:36 PM
Quite. They may be nutty wacky fruitcakes 99% of the time but this time...they are on to something.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 09, 2018, 01:22:44 PM
Quote from: mirth on February 09, 2018, 01:13:32 PM
https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/962026045225385990

AAA HAHAHA :2funny: HAHAHA  :DD HAHAHA  :2funny: HAHAHA  :DD HAHAHA  :2funny: HAHAHA  :DD HAHAHA  :2funny: HAHAHA  :DD HAHAHA  :2funny: HAHAHA  :DD HAHAHA  :2funny: HAHAHA  :DD HAHAHA  :2funny: HAHAHA  :DD HAHAHA  :2funny: HAHAHA  :DD HAHAHA  :2funny: HAHAHA  :DD HAHAHA  :2funny: HAHAHA

Can we offer that dumbass up to the Norks to use as target practice?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on February 09, 2018, 01:59:15 PM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on February 09, 2018, 01:18:54 PM
^ You know, when they put it that way it's actually pretty hard to argue with their logic O:-)

I agree, which is kinda scary...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Pete Dero on February 09, 2018, 02:07:04 PM
Everybody knows this is a parody account right ?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on February 09, 2018, 02:08:21 PM
Quote from: Pete Dero on February 09, 2018, 02:07:04 PM
Everybody knows this is a parody account right ?

yep
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on February 09, 2018, 02:11:49 PM
Quote from: Pete Dero on February 09, 2018, 02:07:04 PM
Everybody knows this is a parody account right ?

does that make it not funny?  ;D
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on February 09, 2018, 02:40:27 PM
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18376/usaf-orders-upgraded-massive-ordnance-penetrator-bombs-amid-tensions-with-north-korea
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on February 11, 2018, 09:39:25 AM
It is sickening that the Norks are being praised in the media at the Olympics

https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/962684500865175553
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 11, 2018, 09:49:00 AM
^ Another LOL moment...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on February 11, 2018, 10:34:13 AM
https://twitter.com/PaulSzoldra/status/962481444550397953
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on February 11, 2018, 11:59:04 AM
yes, it's Vox, I know.  still a decent read

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/2/7/16974772/north-korea-war-trump-kim-nuclear-weapon
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on February 11, 2018, 05:42:49 PM
https://twitter.com/PaulSzoldra/status/962818487411400704
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on March 08, 2018, 07:29:43 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/08/trump-to-meet-with-kim-jong-un-by-may-south-korean-official-announces.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Con on March 08, 2018, 07:42:03 PM
I hope something good comes out of it but color me skeptical I think Trump is going to get played like a fiddle
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on March 08, 2018, 07:46:37 PM
Just like Clinton.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on March 08, 2018, 07:51:55 PM
Clinton got played like a trumpet.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Steelgrave on March 08, 2018, 08:23:56 PM
Trump and Kim Jong Un in a room together....what could possibly go wrong?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/08/politics/donald-trump-kim-jong-un/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/08/politics/donald-trump-kim-jong-un/index.html)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on March 08, 2018, 08:37:39 PM
I hope there is some kind of terrible accident.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on March 08, 2018, 08:41:13 PM
Maybe that's where that decaying-orbit Chinese satellite is headed... 'what?it had a seeker-head? who knew?!'
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on March 08, 2018, 08:42:16 PM
That would be...dreamy.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on March 08, 2018, 08:50:50 PM
Maybe we'll really get lucky and Putin and Xi will be there also. 
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on March 08, 2018, 08:52:07 PM
Four dicks enter, no one leaves?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on March 08, 2018, 09:01:02 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 08, 2018, 08:52:07 PM
Four dicks enter, no one leaves?

Chicka-bow-wow-wow
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on March 08, 2018, 09:03:32 PM
It sounded different in my head.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Steelgrave on March 08, 2018, 09:20:11 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on March 08, 2018, 09:01:02 PM
Quote from: Gusington on March 08, 2018, 08:52:07 PM
Four dicks enter, no one leaves?

Chicka-bow-wow-wow

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on March 08, 2018, 09:54:37 PM
You were thinking of four dicks?  In your head?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on March 08, 2018, 10:14:19 PM
Tonight on the Appresident...


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/08/us/politics/north-korea-kim-jong-un-trump.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on March 08, 2018, 11:29:51 PM
No worries, Rodman will be there to keep things from getting out of hand.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on March 13, 2018, 10:14:47 AM
Quote from: mirth on March 08, 2018, 07:51:55 PM
Clinton got played like a strumpet.

Adjusted your text's autocorrect feature.


I haven't checked Scott Adams' blog recently, but I'd be willing to bet a Coke that he's fawning over how much of a psychological player genius Trump is, at going hard for his fanbase and then backing off in order to look like he's making concessions to negotiate when really Trump is getting as much as he wanted to begin with.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on March 13, 2018, 10:43:55 AM
{checking} Nope, actually Adams hasn't posted since March 4th or 5th (short term memory lapse here). Maybe out sick, who knows.

He did suggest, back on Valentine's Day, a clever strategy that Trump could offer in the event of opening up negotiations with the Norks.

http://blog.dilbert.com/2018/01/17/north-korea-can-become-switzerland-east/

By clever, I mean that we offer to become one of the co-protectors (along with Russia and China) of the even-worse-than-Soviets regime. The Nork government can continue oppressing its people in peace as much as it wants, but it has to unilaterally disarm its military (and nuke programs).

This plan depends on (a) the United States being willing to look the other way (and on century-long concession goalposts being agreed to by NK which will hamper them exploiting their own people) -- but then a small fleet of ours was in Danang recently flying a Vietnamese flag from its flagship, so sure, why not? And (b) Kim Il Jung being rational and his ego fits being only some sort of scam and not indicative of his actual mindset. On this topic I remain much more cynical than Scott Adams.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on March 13, 2018, 07:45:56 PM
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on March 27, 2018, 06:03:40 PM
Seen a few reports that Kim Jung Un has made a secret trip to Beijing.  This is his first trip out of NK since we became dictator.  Perhaps Xi needed some advise from a seasoned dictator for a newly minted one. 
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on March 27, 2018, 06:32:34 PM
Good point!  O0
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on March 27, 2018, 06:50:43 PM
Some of life's skills can only be handed down from (Dear) Father to (Dear) Son.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on March 27, 2018, 08:43:12 PM
China is saying they have gotten a pledge from Kim Jong Un to denuclearize the Korean peninsula.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/27/north-koreas-kim-jong-un-visits-china-according-to-state-media.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on March 27, 2018, 09:14:35 PM
I'm guessing NK will require the US to pull all forces out of ROK and not to hold any more exercises in ROK. 
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on March 27, 2018, 09:26:11 PM
Li'l Kimmy's most important requirement for starting negotiations is opening a KFC franchise in Pyongyang.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on March 27, 2018, 10:44:07 PM
And Rodman for President.  :hide:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on March 28, 2018, 10:50:00 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/27/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on March 28, 2018, 10:50:06 AM
https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/979017638843121664
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on March 28, 2018, 11:46:34 AM
...wait, so is Scott Adam's policy advice going to come true?!  :o
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on March 28, 2018, 12:56:49 PM
MILKSOP
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on April 17, 2018, 07:57:38 AM
https://twitter.com/Spy_Stations/status/986218664805523456
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on April 17, 2018, 08:03:25 AM
Does any one know why the war has never been officially ended before.  Is this another sign that NK leadership is feeling the pressure of the sanctions.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on April 17, 2018, 08:53:13 AM
Quote from: OJsDad on April 17, 2018, 08:03:25 AM
Does any one know why the war has never been officially ended before.  Is this another sign that NK leadership is feeling the pressure of the sanctions.

More likely feeling pressure from new Chinese leadership....
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Pete Dero on April 17, 2018, 09:57:35 AM
Quote from: OJsDad on April 17, 2018, 08:03:25 AM
Does any one know why the war has never been officially ended before. 

As far as I know they only signed a Truce.

On July 27, 1953, they signed the Korean Armistice Agreement, ending all acts of armed force in Korea. The agreement was not a peace treaty but a ceasefire.

By absence of peace you are still at war ...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on April 17, 2018, 11:12:51 AM
This way Little Kim can go tell everybody in N.Kor. that HE won the war.... finally.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Nefaro on April 17, 2018, 11:37:23 AM
Quote from: Pete Dero on April 17, 2018, 09:57:35 AM
Quote from: OJsDad on April 17, 2018, 08:03:25 AM
Does any one know why the war has never been officially ended before. 

As far as I know they only signed a Truce.

On July 27, 1953, they signed the Korean Armistice Agreement, ending all acts of armed force in Korea. The agreement was not a peace treaty but a ceasefire.

By absence of peace you are still at war ...

Indeed.

It was just a ceasefire agreement that kept going on & on.

Of course, there were regular hostile incidents since then.

Also - the Nork leadership never gave up it's belief that they were, and should be, the rulers of the whole Korean peninsula.  They were never interested in a peace deal because they believed it was all theirs in the first place, and wouldn't sign anything because it would indicate that it was not.

Perhaps the many decades of NK getting run into the ground, combined with outside pressure, has finally loosened the sphincter.  When the usual appeasement of the Norks is taken off the table, they're now put in a black & white decision-making paradigm. 
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on April 20, 2018, 07:26:05 PM
North Korea says it has suspended nuclear and long-range missile tests - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/20/north-korea-says-it-will-suspend-nuclear-and-long-range-missile-tests.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on April 20, 2018, 07:29:07 PM
Chairman Xi finally yanked hard on the leash?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on April 20, 2018, 07:30:02 PM
Sure, we can all believe Dear Leader!  ::)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on April 20, 2018, 08:01:39 PM
I kind of believe him in this case. Whether he'll change his mind about building some credibility next week, who knows? But someone appears to have suggested that if he would just stop spending money on antagonizing the world suicidally, he could build a solid gold tower taller than some other tower in America with a world leader's name on it -- and that otherwise he can expect to be laser-bombed off the face of the Earth soon.

Besides, recent word over the past few months is that his nuclear program is an internal disaster with steadily more bullets being loaded into the revolver to spin and dry-click. Even he might see that he could end up nuking his own nation if he doesn't focus his ego and craziness somewhere else.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on April 20, 2018, 09:42:38 PM
I hear he's trying to get on American Idol next season. He's already won N. Korean Idol.... every year.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on April 26, 2018, 07:20:15 PM
https://thediplomat.com/2018/04/north-koreas-nuclear-test-site-has-collapsed-chinese-scientists/
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on April 26, 2018, 07:45:19 PM
Kim Jong Un walks into South Korea to shake hands with Moon Jae-in

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/04/26/kim-jong-un-walks-into-south-korea-to-shake-hands-with-moon-jae-in.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on April 26, 2018, 10:09:58 PM
Any chance Little Kim will defect to the south while he's there? Then he and Rodman can play together in the NBA.  :uglystupid2:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Centurion40 on April 27, 2018, 08:32:18 AM
Quote from: OJsDad on April 26, 2018, 07:45:19 PM
Kim Jong Un walks into South Korea to shake hands with Moon Jae-in

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/04/26/kim-jong-un-walks-into-south-korea-to-shake-hands-with-moon-jae-in.html

The photos and videos on all news sources are amazing.  But I couldn't help feeling like I was watching movie where the Norks were deliberately causing a distraction for a wide-scale invasion.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on April 27, 2018, 11:34:53 AM
Am I the only one thinking this is some kind of ruse, and Pappa Fat Boy Un has some kind of backstab planned?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on April 27, 2018, 11:47:09 AM
Yes, probably a ruse to steal Col. Sanders Secret recipe. This does seem too good to be true. But it is better than the Nuke Saber Rattling. So.... fingers crossed.  :peace:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on April 27, 2018, 11:59:07 AM
That's my point, though. Literally decades of saber-rattling and threats and shooting missiles through other countries' airspaces and daring anyone to do anything about it, and now suddenly he just wants to make nice?

I'm skeptical.

Not that I don't think it's good - I'm just very hesitant to take this at face value, unlike the networks that are screaming like Neville Chamberlain's supporters were during the whole 'peace in our time' bit.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on April 27, 2018, 12:05:54 PM
He's been in charge for a relatively short time. I'm sure it plays to his ego to be considered the peacemaker now. And if he can bring his country into the 21st century and the international community, it will be a huge win for him (as despicable as he may be).
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on April 27, 2018, 12:19:04 PM
Quote from: mirth on April 26, 2018, 07:20:15 PM
https://thediplomat.com/2018/04/north-koreas-nuclear-test-site-has-collapsed-chinese-scientists/

I'm going to suspect this has some bearing on him wanting to play nice now.  ::)

Good job Trump, though, I guess? He deserves at least some credit, wincing as that is for me to say so.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on April 27, 2018, 12:25:08 PM
Quote from: Sir Slash on April 27, 2018, 11:47:09 AM
Yes, probably a ruse to steal Col. Sanders Secret recipe. This does seem too good to be true. But it is better than the Nuke Saber Rattling. So.... fingers crossed.  :peace:

Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Centurion40 on April 27, 2018, 12:59:43 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on April 27, 2018, 12:19:04 PM
Quote from: mirth on April 26, 2018, 07:20:15 PM
https://thediplomat.com/2018/04/north-koreas-nuclear-test-site-has-collapsed-chinese-scientists/

I'm going to suspect this has some bearing on him wanting to play nice now.  ::)

Good job Trump, though, I guess? He deserves at least some credit, wincing as that is for me to say so.

Perhaps your President and the Chinese have convinced Fatboy that there is a huuuge upside to playing ball?  Lift sanctions, feed the people, look good and get to go to Disneyworld.

If yes, then he does indeed deserve credit for a job well done.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on April 27, 2018, 08:42:12 PM
My guess in the new Chinese leadership put their foot down, on Lil Kim's neck, when he was up for a "State Visit" last month.

Having his testing facility under tonnes of fallen rock probably helped too.... O0
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on April 27, 2018, 10:20:09 PM
I'm thinking the Pug should be in charge of negotiations. Who could say 'No' to him?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on April 29, 2018, 04:48:09 PM
April 27th, South and North Korea sign the papers effectively ending the Korean War.

I don't even know whether this is the right place to put it...  :o :clap:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on April 29, 2018, 05:20:33 PM
Meanwhile, an interesting theory is that this is a coup against the North Korean military elites, most of whom live in China anyway. Kim may have explained that he and his forebears were 'forced' to play brinkmanship games to convince the other thugs that they had the stones to stay at the top, but that if he didn't have to worry about them then he'd be prepared to play ball more nicely on the world stage. (And consolidate his power position more safely for himself of course.)

China secures the borders against the generals escaping back to NK, and takes them out quietly in country; special ops volunteered from various nations zap the palaces; North Korea agrees to end its financially ruinous military policies and appoint new military leaders prepared to play ball with Kim (and thence with the world more generally). Maybe NK gains special protectorate status as a neutral country from the UN Security Council (two of which are sitting right on the border, as fellow communist or former-communist supporters). Everyone wins except the generals and maybe their families to some extent. Conditions in NK improve significantly for its population.

Worth noting that the Saudis went to China for military training recently (maybe have a base there now); and a number of Chinese troops marched with Saudi troops in a Pakistani military day parade not long ago: the first time Chinese troops have ever marched in anyone else's military parade. Some suspiciously EastAsian-looking troops were training with the Jordanian army recently, wearing Jordanian flags.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on April 30, 2018, 06:29:29 AM
Say what??
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Centurion40 on April 30, 2018, 06:46:46 AM
Quote from: JasonPratt on April 29, 2018, 05:20:33 PM
Meanwhile, an interesting theory is that this is a coup against the North Korean military elites, most of whom live in China anyway. Kim may have explained that he and his forebears were 'forced' to play brinkmanship games to convince the other thugs that they had the stones to stay at the top, but that if he didn't have to worry about them then he'd be prepared to play ball more nicely on the world stage. (And consolidate his power position more safely for himself of course.)

China secures the borders against the generals escaping back to NK, and takes them out quietly in country; special ops volunteered from various nations zap the palaces; North Korea agrees to end its financially ruinous military policies and appoint new military leaders prepared to play ball with Kim (and thence with the world more generally). Maybe NK gains special protectorate status as a neutral country from the UN Security Council (two of which are sitting right on the border, as fellow communist or former-communist supporters). Everyone wins except the generals and maybe their families to some extent. Conditions in NK improve significantly for its population.

Worth noting that the Saudis went to China for military training recently (maybe have a base there now); and a number of Chinese troops marched with Saudi troops in a Pakistani military day parade not long ago: the first time Chinese troops have ever marched in anyone else's military parade. Some suspiciously EastAsian-looking troops were training with the Jordanian army recently, wearing Jordanian flags.

Links?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on April 30, 2018, 06:57:53 AM
There's a lot of work to be done before Nobel Peace prized start being handed out.  Until an peace treaty is finalized and Kim allows outside inspectors of his nuclear program, it's all hype.

Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on May 01, 2018, 04:29:20 PM
I had links earlier but they have been lost in the cascading morass of FB.  :buck2:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on May 09, 2018, 08:30:50 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/09/trump-secretary-of-state-pompeo-heading-back-from-north-korea-with-3-released-prisoners.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on May 09, 2018, 09:11:43 AM
Good news indeed.  O0
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on May 09, 2018, 09:45:17 AM
Quote from: Labbug on May 09, 2018, 08:30:50 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/09/trump-secretary-of-state-pompeo-heading-back-from-north-korea-with-3-released-prisoners.html

that's excellent.

screw the politics, it's just a good thing that the US gov't was able to bring our citizens home
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on May 09, 2018, 09:52:49 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 09, 2018, 09:45:17 AM
Quote from: Labbug on May 09, 2018, 08:30:50 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/09/trump-secretary-of-state-pompeo-heading-back-from-north-korea-with-3-released-prisoners.html

that's excellent.

screw the politics, it's just a good thing that the US gov't was able to bring our citizens home

+1

Its going to be interesting to see how this all plays out over the next few months
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on May 09, 2018, 10:32:41 AM
BTW, Kim was back in China a couple of days ago.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on May 09, 2018, 10:59:04 AM
Quote from: OJsDad on May 09, 2018, 10:32:41 AM
BTW, Kim was back in China a couple of days ago.

Reporting back to Control.....
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on May 09, 2018, 12:26:17 PM
And probably getting some good KFC.  :notworthy:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on May 11, 2018, 03:49:21 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2018/05/11/10-times-larger-than-hiroshima-how-north-koreas-huge-nuclear-blast-caused-mountain-to-collapse.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on May 11, 2018, 04:51:58 PM
10 times larger than the WWII bombs is still pretty small.... in the grand scheme of things....
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on May 11, 2018, 05:18:09 PM
150 kt? Pfft.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Labbug on May 12, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/05/12/north-korea-to-hold-ceremony-dismantling-nuclear-site-on-may-23-25-state-media.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on May 12, 2018, 12:00:28 PM
Quote from: Labbug on May 12, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/05/12/north-korea-to-hold-ceremony-dismantling-nuclear-site-on-may-23-25-state-media.html

Wonder how many he's managed to squirrel away?  ::)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Con on May 15, 2018, 06:20:36 PM
Well now that Kim and Trump have each other on the hook lets see who is more desperate to make a deal and who gets played like a fiddle

Let the games commence
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/15/politics/north-korea-suspends-south-korea-talks-us-military-drills/index.html
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on May 15, 2018, 06:36:25 PM
Li'l Kimmy released some US prisoners to make The Donald look good, obviously a gift with the expectation of a Quid Pro Quo that was not reciprocated.

Oops...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on May 15, 2018, 09:54:08 PM
I thought us keeping Rodman at home would make up for that.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on May 16, 2018, 07:31:06 AM
They're reporting now that Lil' Fat Boy is starting to balk and threaten to withdraw from the summit meeting.

I had a feeling his weasel ass would try something like this - totally manipulative and not necessary at all if he were completely honest with this process. I've doubted his sincerity since this was first announced and this just underlines my suspicion all the more.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on May 16, 2018, 07:38:23 AM
Well, not to defend the little porkchop, but is it so much to ask to not have any military drills until after the summit next month?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on May 16, 2018, 07:40:37 AM
If it was routine as the Pentagon says, then I'm not really surprised at the bureaucracy not considering it. But that is a fair point. I think they could have postponed such a thing as a show of faith.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Con on May 16, 2018, 07:47:13 AM
I will be watching to see what concessions each side makes. I think the US administration has oversold their position and thus will have more at stake and willing to give more for a deal. Let's see if the art of the deal can beat bait and switch.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Pete Dero on May 16, 2018, 07:47:25 AM
Quote from: BanzaiCat on May 16, 2018, 07:31:06 AM
They're reporting now that Lil' Fat Boy is starting to balk and threaten to withdraw from the summit meeting.

I had a feeling his weasel ass would try something like this - totally manipulative and not necessary at all if he were completely honest with this process. I've doubted his sincerity since this was first announced and this just underlines my suspicion all the more.

This (besides current US army exercises is South Korea) is one of the main reasons :


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/29/us/politics/bolton-libya-north-korea-trump.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44134910


Mr Bolton recently said North Korea could follow a "Libya model" of verifiable denuclearisation, but this alarms Pyongyang, which watched Libya's Colonel Gaddafi give up his nuclear programme only for him to be killed by Western-backed rebels a few years later.

The BBC's Laura Bicker in Seoul says North Korea - which had long said its nuclear arsenal is essential for its survival as a state - is now making its demands clear.

The whole reason the North Korean state has spent years building up a nuclear arsenal, at such a great cost, is for survival.

So to compare denuclearisation in North Korea with Libya or indeed Iraq as John Bolton did on Sunday is not going to offer much comfort. Both regimes collapsed.

North Korea wants the world to know that it is coming to the negotiating table from a position of strength, and they may feel that they are making all the concessions.

They've suspended all missile tests, released the three US detainees, Kim Jong-un met President Moon and the pair signed a declaration, and they're about to dismantle a nuclear test site in front of international media.

So to hear the Trump administration claiming credit for a deal they don't like has been a step too far.

These statements more than hint that North Korea is prepared to walk away from President Trump's summit in Singapore until it does hear a deal it does like.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on May 16, 2018, 07:52:03 AM
^That makes a bit more sense. Well, thank goodness we have such a skilled diplomat as President and fully staffed State Department to back him up!  ::) :DD
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on May 16, 2018, 07:54:10 AM
Quote from: Pete Dero on May 16, 2018, 07:47:25 AMSo to compare denuclearisation in North Korea with Libya or indeed Iraq as John Bolton did on Sunday is not going to offer much comfort. Both regimes collapsed.

Bolton's frame of reference is whether or not the US gets what we want, and there's never any consideration whether or not the other guy can/should/would get what he wants.
Yes, there's a heavy US-centric bias, which you expect from a US 'diplomat' but in diplomacy, the other guy has to feel like he won something, too.  Bolton has never understood that.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on May 16, 2018, 09:00:49 AM
So, Kim didnt demand cancellation of any exercises before the meeting. Why didnt the ROK decide to suspend them.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on May 16, 2018, 09:19:27 AM
https://twitter.com/Santiagojjjr/status/996747806479020032
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on May 16, 2018, 09:46:12 AM
^ That's it, in one
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on May 16, 2018, 09:56:52 AM
The next one will be Charlie 'Trump' Brown on his back.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JudgeDredd on May 16, 2018, 11:02:06 AM
What happened to "We're only keeping our nuclear weapons so we can use them to bargain away other countries".

Not popping at the US here...in fact my shitty government. Each successive government in the UK always argues against unilateral disarmament using the excuse "We shouldn't give them up freely...we should use them as a bargaining chip"...and yet they never do.

Truth is my government wants to keep nuclear weapons and purely so they can project their self-perceived strength. We keep nukes and our ground forces (and air force) are decimated. As was the RN until recently.

As for this BS - there was never any doubt in my mind that KJU was pulling Trumps pisser. Was I honestly expected to believe that he had went from name calling and threatening the west coast of the US with nukes to "Ok, we'll get rid"? Papers were tripping over themselves saying what a breakthrough it was. Trump for the NPP. There was no way that wee shit was going to hand over his tech. He's a power hungry megalomaniac.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on May 16, 2018, 01:07:00 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 16, 2018, 07:54:10 AM
Quote from: Pete Dero on May 16, 2018, 07:47:25 AMSo to compare denuclearisation in North Korea with Libya or indeed Iraq as John Bolton did on Sunday is not going to offer much comfort. Both regimes collapsed.

Bolton's frame of reference is whether or not the US gets what we want, and there's never any consideration whether or not the other guy can/should/would get what he wants.
Yes, there's a heavy US-centric bias, which you expect from a US 'diplomat' but in diplomacy, the other guy has to feel like he won something, too.  Bolton has never understood that.

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-bolton-may-have-derailed-north-korea-trump-talks-2018-5

QuoteNorth Korea appeared to flip on the US on Tuesday with a variety of complaints and statements that marked the first real backslide of a diplomatic push for peace in Korea — and much of it was pinned on a dark, threatening statement made by President Donald Trump's hawkish new national security adviser.

North Korean media specifically targeted Trump's new national security adviser, John Bolton.

"We shed light on the quality of Bolton already in the past, and we do not hide our feeling of repugnance towards him," wrote Kim Kye Gwan, North Korea's vice-minister of foreign affairs.

Bolton, who has written extensively advocating that the US bomb North Korea, recently made a strange statement that appears to have provoked North Korea's anger.

"I think we're looking at the Libya model of 2003, 2004," to denuclearize North Korea, Bolton told CBS' "Face the Nation" in late April.

Shortly after the US invaded Iraq and deposed Saddam Hussein in 2003, Libya's Muammar Gaddafi agreed to have international inspectors visit his country to certify that his nuclear and chemical weapons programs had halted.

In 2011, a popular uprising in Libya got backing from the US and some NATO countries, and a salvo of cruise missile strikes pummeled the Libyan government.

Within months, Gaddafi was filmed being dragged out into the streets by rebels, who then violently killed him.

Gaddafi's violent end and the parallels between Libya and North Korea appear to have been noted in Pyongyang.

Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on May 16, 2018, 01:09:22 PM
Maybe Michael Bolton would be a better choice.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on May 16, 2018, 01:17:40 PM
Quote from: Gusington on May 16, 2018, 01:09:22 PM
Maybe Michael Bolton would be a better choice.

as long as he brings one-time Kiss guitarist Bruce Kulick (and that 70's 'stache) with him

[yt]https://youtu.be/fCGMdf3qNIE[/yt]
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on May 16, 2018, 01:21:21 PM
Fugit, let's bomb 'em! It's worked great for us so far!  #:-)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Pete Dero on May 16, 2018, 01:29:30 PM




There is a third category : those who think they have it but they don't !
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on May 16, 2018, 01:29:44 PM
Quote from: Gusington on May 16, 2018, 01:09:22 PM
Maybe Michael Bolton would be a better choice.

Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on May 16, 2018, 01:29:59 PM
Let's bomb Oprah first! Yeah!
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on May 16, 2018, 02:17:42 PM
I think he meant this Michael Bolton:

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics2%2Fmb.jpg&hash=9644da204f653c162adda0e89d44ea1f977f551d)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on May 16, 2018, 02:27:02 PM
'Why should I change my name? I'm not the one who sucks.'
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on May 16, 2018, 03:40:43 PM
Look, this is all important and all, BUT WHAT DOES THE NORK TWITTER ACCOUNT SAY!?

(...I don't really get Twitter, so I can't go check.  :'( )
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on May 16, 2018, 04:36:37 PM
Not seeing a lot of similarities between the Libya and Nork situations.  China will do everything it can to keep a buffer between itself and an American ally like SK.  China will only allow Kim to fall if Seoul becomes a puppet to Beijing.  When Gaddafi fell, there was no willing to lift a finger to help him.  I don't think the EU or US even offered him a way out. 
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on May 24, 2018, 09:02:50 AM
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/999647483650347008
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on May 24, 2018, 09:10:12 AM
^Is it just me or is that a really oddly written letter?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on May 24, 2018, 09:13:32 AM
Quote from: bbmike on May 24, 2018, 09:10:12 AM
^Is it just me or is that a really oddly written letter?

You were expecting something else?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on May 24, 2018, 09:20:40 AM
https://www.duffelblog.com/2018/05/white-house-mints-challenge-coins-to-commemorate-failure-of-upcoming-us-north-korea-peace-summit/
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on May 24, 2018, 09:31:30 AM
Quote from: mirth on May 24, 2018, 09:13:32 AM
Quote from: bbmike on May 24, 2018, 09:10:12 AM
^Is it just me or is that a really oddly written letter?

You were expecting something else?

I know, you'd think after a year I would start getting used to this kind of stuff.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Con on May 24, 2018, 10:15:52 AM
Quote from: mirth on May 24, 2018, 09:02:50 AM
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/999647483650347008
I honestly was expecting it to be satire. Not sure how I feel that it is real with it's Twitter grammar and blame deflecting position
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on May 24, 2018, 10:19:30 AM
I never thought I'd look back fondly on the foreign policy of the Obama administration, yet here we are.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Windigo on May 24, 2018, 11:36:16 AM
I am surprised that you actually thought it would be otherwise... seriously.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on May 24, 2018, 12:03:53 PM
https://twitter.com/DungeonsDonald/status/999682853376966659
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on May 24, 2018, 01:07:32 PM
A D&D session between those two may have been more productive.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Con on May 24, 2018, 01:14:57 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on May 24, 2018, 01:07:32 PM
A D&D session between those two may have been more productive.
I use my +2 twitter staff of buffoonery on you
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on May 24, 2018, 01:18:07 PM
Quote from: Con on May 24, 2018, 01:14:57 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on May 24, 2018, 01:07:32 PM
A D&D session between those two may have been more productive.
I use my +2 twitter staff of buffoonery on you

I cast Fake News!
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on May 24, 2018, 01:58:34 PM
Trump reaches out to push the Supreme Leader off the bridge (rolls a 1), but instead lightly caress his back. He is uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on May 24, 2018, 02:01:44 PM
Trump or the Supreme Leader?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on May 24, 2018, 02:06:31 PM
Perhaps...they are the same person.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on May 24, 2018, 02:09:20 PM
It's starting to seem that way.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on May 24, 2018, 02:10:09 PM
Dear God
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on May 24, 2018, 02:19:23 PM
Dear Leader
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on May 24, 2018, 02:40:37 PM
'Oh God...'

'Zod.'
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Windigo on May 24, 2018, 02:53:17 PM
Sick of the encounter and the lack of any progress towards achieving riches; two party members collaborate, the Mage conjures up whirlwinds and the Druid Summons Animals and both Kim and Donald (problematic members of the party) get consumed in the resulting Sharknado     <:-) <:-) <:-) <:-)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on May 24, 2018, 03:00:36 PM
Quote from: Windigo on May 24, 2018, 02:53:17 PM
Sick of the encounter and the lack of any progress towards achieving riches; two party members collaborate, the Mage conjures up whirlwinds and the Druid Summons Animals and both Kim and Donald (problematic members of the party) get consumed in the resulting Sharknado called Stormy Daniels   <:-) <:-) <:-) <:-)

FTFY
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on May 24, 2018, 08:20:48 PM
Trump however already survived being consumed by Stormy Daniels once, so has built up immunity experience.

Trump wins.  \m/


:hide:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on May 24, 2018, 10:17:48 PM
This is terrible news. I understand Rodman was planning on having a new nipple-piercing done to commemorate the event too.  :'(
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: em2nought on May 24, 2018, 11:19:34 PM
I smell John Bolton.  :uglystupid2:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on May 25, 2018, 08:21:35 AM
Quote from: em2nought on May 24, 2018, 11:19:34 PM
I smell John Bolton.  :uglystupid2:

I think Gus cut one.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on May 25, 2018, 09:02:21 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on May 24, 2018, 10:17:48 PM
This is terrible news. I understand Rodman was planning on having a new nipple-piercing done to commemorate the event too.  :'(

I heard it was one of his nuts he was going to have pierced.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on May 25, 2018, 10:22:49 AM
I did cut one but it smells like Sandra Bernhardt.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on May 25, 2018, 10:25:00 AM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.2createabody.com%2Fimages%2Fbeano.jpg&hash=9a6466f87097e925d931c2b90a43a555c495869e)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on May 25, 2018, 10:26:10 AM
A great man once said 'fart proudly' and I do.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on May 25, 2018, 10:27:17 AM
I wouldn't be proud of farts that smell like Sandra Bernhardt.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on May 25, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
That's your problem. Better out than in.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on May 25, 2018, 10:32:38 AM
Quote from: Gusington on May 25, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
Better out than in.

that's what she said
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on May 25, 2018, 11:58:00 AM
Quote from: mirth on May 25, 2018, 10:27:17 AM
I wouldn't be proud of farts that smell like Sandra Bernhardt.

I'll defer to you guys as to what Sandra Bernhardt smells like.  I hope to never get close enough to find out.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on May 25, 2018, 01:44:38 PM
Corned beef and cabbage.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Windigo on May 25, 2018, 09:17:17 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 25, 2018, 11:58:00 AM
Quote from: mirth on May 25, 2018, 10:27:17 AM
I wouldn't be proud of farts that smell like Sandra Bernhardt.

I'll defer to you guys as to what Sandra Bernhardt smells like.  I hope to never get close enough to find out.

*sigh* not knowing who she is.... googling   . . .    . . .    ...  OMG... what have I done?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on May 25, 2018, 09:53:30 PM
IIRC, among other things, wasnt she in that Robert De Niro film about the aspiring standup comedian who takes Jerry Lewis hostage?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on May 25, 2018, 10:08:02 PM
But do Sandra Bernhardt's farts smell like Gus is what I want to know? If so, then there could be a Parallel Gaseous Universe thing going on.  :o
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on May 26, 2018, 10:24:42 AM
Yes to all. And I got Windy's nose. Ha!
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on May 29, 2018, 10:23:23 AM
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/05/north-korea-pakistan-libya/561341/
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 05, 2018, 03:55:05 PM
https://twitter.com/nktpnd/status/1004102722193362945
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on June 05, 2018, 04:38:33 PM
Thank goodness. I feel safe now.  :hide:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 05, 2018, 04:54:36 PM
 :o
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on June 05, 2018, 09:43:25 PM
I just hope they all three don't get drunk and start showing us their tattoos. I think I would prefer to be nuked instead.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 06, 2018, 08:32:59 AM
Maybe Kim will get his nose pierced.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on June 06, 2018, 11:30:33 AM
Sending Milani would do better. I'd disarm to her.  :smitten:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on June 06, 2018, 02:00:18 PM
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 06, 2018, 11:30:33 AM
Sending Milani would do better. I'd disrobe to her.  :smitten:

Ftfy
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on June 07, 2018, 11:48:29 PM
you realize that at some point she did actually fuck trump right?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 08, 2018, 04:27:52 AM
There was nothing right about it.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 08, 2018, 08:38:15 AM
It couldn't have lasted more than 15 seconds. I'm willing to overlook it.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on June 08, 2018, 11:11:36 AM
I would share Milani with Trump. I would NOT share Trump with Milani. Just me though.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 08, 2018, 12:07:55 PM
 :o

wut
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on June 08, 2018, 12:21:04 PM
Someone's off their meds.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 08, 2018, 12:22:16 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on June 08, 2018, 12:21:04 PM
Someone's off their meds.

Yeah, but I'm going to make up for it by drinking heavily.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 08, 2018, 12:31:31 PM
I never lost faith in you, but Sir Slash has me questioning everything.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on June 08, 2018, 09:32:34 PM
Question everything. Question everyone. For I have touched the sky. And the World is hollow.  :o
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on June 08, 2018, 09:39:35 PM
"Everyone... Uh, may I have your attention? Don't take the Andorian acid... it isn't good..."
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on June 08, 2018, 10:10:46 PM
True. it will make you see green Orion Slave Girls. Who really aren't. Green or slaves. Capt. Pike understands.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Windigo on June 09, 2018, 01:24:41 AM
Or girls... thai people know this
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on June 10, 2018, 10:11:37 PM
Hoping Trump doesn't give Hawaii away in this whole thing.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1c/d6/ea/1cd6eac540dc2845ec140147fe9601bd.jpg)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on June 10, 2018, 11:21:55 PM
Im actually surprised that B5 hasnt been rebooted.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: em2nought on June 10, 2018, 11:57:02 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on June 10, 2018, 10:11:37 PM
Hoping Trump doesn't give Hawaii away in this whole thing.

Hopefully, Trump starts by offering up the tropical paradise of Puerto Rico.  ;) 

Just so the fake news media doesn't tell Rocket Man that it's a money pit in their attempts to thwart the proceedings.  ;)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on June 11, 2018, 08:16:35 AM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on June 10, 2018, 11:21:55 PM
Im actually surprised that B5 hasnt been rebooted.

DO NOT GIVE THE INTERNET IDEAS!!  :timeout: :wow: :hide:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 11, 2018, 11:15:41 AM
https://www.buzzfeed.com/matthewchampion/kim-jong-un-selfie?bftw=world&utm_term=.vrv9DDr0D#.ju1Ndd53d
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on June 11, 2018, 08:10:59 PM
https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1006342619918630912

Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 11, 2018, 08:12:11 PM
I hope he brought hand sanitizer.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on June 11, 2018, 08:16:48 PM
Quote from: mirth on June 11, 2018, 08:12:11 PM
I hope he brought hand sanitizer.

I hope Trump brought some too
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on June 11, 2018, 08:32:58 PM
Trump wore a red tie instead of his usual blue. Hmmm....
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: em2nought on June 11, 2018, 11:34:28 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on June 11, 2018, 08:32:58 PM
Trump wore a red tie instead of his usual blue. Hmmm....

Collusion!  :DD
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on June 13, 2018, 10:43:15 AM
https://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/news/story/0002/20180613/KBN1J90CA_6

QuoteSEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea no longer poses a nuclear threat, nor is it the "biggest and most dangerous problem" for the United States, President Donald Trump said on Wednesday on his return from a summit in Singapore with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.

Quote"There is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea [said Trump]. Meeting with Kim Jong Un was an interesting and very positive experience. North Korea has great potential for the future!"

On Tuesday, Trump told a news conference after the summit that he would like to lift sanctions against the North but that this would not happen immediately.

North Korean state media lauded the summit as a resounding success, saying Trump expressed his intention to halt U.S.-South Korea military exercises, offer security guarantees to the North and lift sanctions against it as relations improve.

Kim and Trump invited each other to their respective countries and both leaders "gladly accepted," the North's Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) said.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on June 13, 2018, 10:58:35 AM
In conclusion, Democratic radical-left regime reduces nuclear security, explicitly to increase world safety (somehow), so that communist governments can steal secrets (to increase world safety), almost directly creating the Nork nuclear crisis.

But Trump defuses the problem created by the communist sympathizers, by diplomatically maneuvering the worst communist regime still in power into ceasing to be a rogue state.

...

........

...and this isn't one of my stupid lucid dreams.  :o


Democratic response: QUICK, ROLL OUT A COUPLE OF GUYS FIRED FOR STEALING SHREDDED TRUMP PAPERS AND RECONSTRUCTING THEM!  :clap:  <:-)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: joram on June 13, 2018, 04:24:13 PM
What in the world are you talking about?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 13, 2018, 04:26:13 PM
Quote from: joram on June 13, 2018, 04:24:13 PM
What in the world are you talking about?

We frequently wonder :P
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: DoctorQuest on June 13, 2018, 05:56:35 PM
It's not just me then....
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 13, 2018, 06:17:19 PM
No.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Steelgrave on June 13, 2018, 06:45:11 PM
I'm very relieved to hear from the President that North Korea is "no longer a nuclear threat", but I fear I must withhold my applause until they actually, you know, deconstruct their nukes. Or even set a timetable for deconstructing them. Or even agree to setting a timetable for deconstructing them....

On the bright side, the verifiable one, at least the two regime leaders with the worst haircuts ever didn't start a nuclear war. And now of course, North Korea can't. Ummm....right? Right? Damn....I may need to borrow Gus' security blanket for awhile. 
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on June 13, 2018, 06:49:22 PM
You forgot pissing off yer closest ally, trading partner, and neighbor....  #:-)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Staggerwing on June 13, 2018, 06:52:32 PM
I dunno- the Kimmies and China go way back. They always kiss and make up eventually.


Oh wait- you meant... um...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on June 13, 2018, 07:01:20 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on June 13, 2018, 06:49:22 PM
You forgot pissing off yer closest ally, trading partner, and neighbor....  #:-)

Careful. By end of the year he may be talking about annexing  you all.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Steelgrave on June 13, 2018, 07:10:15 PM
But that's all he will do. Talk. Then hold a press conference and declare victory before hitting the golf links.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on June 13, 2018, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: Steelgrave on June 13, 2018, 07:10:15 PM
But that's all he will do. Talk. Then hold a press conference and declare victory before hitting the golf links.

Well, thats better than we could expect from Obama. He would it claimed he won the election and therefore he is dictator.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 13, 2018, 07:23:01 PM
I am not loaning out my security blanket until 2024.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 13, 2018, 07:28:35 PM
I am stockpiling bourbon.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Steelgrave on June 13, 2018, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on June 13, 2018, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: Steelgrave on June 13, 2018, 07:10:15 PM
But that's all he will do. Talk. Then hold a press conference and declare victory before hitting the golf links.

Well, thats better than we could expect from Obama. He would it claimed he won the election and therefore he is dictator.

You and I tend to be on the same page more often than not, but if you wanna talk dictators, I'm not sure comparing Obama and Trump is a winning argument.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 13, 2018, 07:39:25 PM
Quote from: Steelgrave on June 13, 2018, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on June 13, 2018, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: Steelgrave on June 13, 2018, 07:10:15 PM
But that's all he will do. Talk. Then hold a press conference and declare victory before hitting the golf links.

Well, thats better than we could expect from Obama. He would it claimed he won the election and therefore he is dictator.

You and I tend to be on the same page more often than not, but if you wanna talk dictators, I'm not sure comparing Obama and Trump is a winning argument.

QFT
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on June 13, 2018, 07:48:17 PM
Quote from: Steelgrave on June 13, 2018, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: OJsDad on June 13, 2018, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: Steelgrave on June 13, 2018, 07:10:15 PM
But that's all he will do. Talk. Then hold a press conference and declare victory before hitting the golf links.

Well, thats better than we could expect from Obama. He would it claimed he won the election and therefore he is dictator.

You and I tend to be on the same page more often than not, but if you wanna talk dictators, I'm not sure comparing Obama and Trump is a winning argument.

Same coin, different sides. In the end, its all about them.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 13, 2018, 08:00:04 PM
The other side of the Trump coin is Trump. Heads he wins. Tails we lose.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Steelgrave on June 13, 2018, 08:03:33 PM
Quote from: mirth on June 13, 2018, 08:00:04 PM
The other side of the Trump coin is Trump. Heads he wins. Tails we lose.

If Trump is ever on our currency (and he may order it himself), one side will be a profile of Trump and the other side will be...a profile of Trump   :clap:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on June 13, 2018, 08:38:32 PM
More like his arse.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Steelgrave on June 13, 2018, 08:40:04 PM
Honestly, I think that's why his hair is that way, so he/we can tell them apart  ::)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Arctic Blast on June 13, 2018, 09:28:35 PM
Don't worry, folks! Trump spent plenty of time producing a bizarre pseudo movie trailer to...actually, I don't have the slightest idea what this was supposed to do. He proudly showed it to Kim Jong-un, though.

Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 13, 2018, 09:35:40 PM
Trump is the Michael Bay of US Presidents
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on June 14, 2018, 05:42:50 AM
Quote from: mirth on June 13, 2018, 07:28:35 PM
I am stockpiling bourbon.

you do that anyway
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on June 14, 2018, 05:44:30 AM
Quote from: mirth on June 13, 2018, 09:35:40 PMTrump is the Michael Bay of US Presidents

View of reality is so shaky it makes you sick?

(seriously, can anyone watch the first Transformers movie without Dramamine?)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 14, 2018, 06:41:28 AM
I think Michael Bay is the Trump of directors.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Pete Dero on June 14, 2018, 07:03:21 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on June 14, 2018, 05:44:30 AM
(seriously, can anyone watch the first Transformers movie without Dramamine?)

I know I watched it for a certain reason back then ...

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fiwallpapers.free.fr%2Fupload%2F2012%2F07%2F12%2F20120712195010-4843ab57.jpg&hash=132670fbfac7c7fd29f70a6f166b3b8f94ae0258)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on June 14, 2018, 07:04:45 AM
(https://scontent.fyto1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34919580_10160422703290623_2873265651382747136_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=eef992fe925ae1c3017aae5f2579d681&oe=5BB4C9EA&efg=eyJhZG1pc3Npb25fY29udHJvbCI6MSwidXBsb2FkZXJfaWQiOiIxMTMwMDczMjA2MjIifQ%3D%3D)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 14, 2018, 07:52:58 AM
Hahahaha!!
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 14, 2018, 07:55:03 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on June 14, 2018, 05:42:50 AM
Quote from: mirth on June 13, 2018, 07:28:35 PM
I am stockpiling bourbon.

you do that anyway

usually I don't keep it around long enough to accumulate a stockpile
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 14, 2018, 08:00:45 AM
https://twitter.com/nktpnd/status/1007245616869773313
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 14, 2018, 08:39:08 AM
...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Pete Dero on June 14, 2018, 09:12:17 AM
Now the Korean problem is solved forever, thanks to a guy who makes Einstein look like a toddler, I don't understand why you would organise the world cup in 2026 with your biggest and worst enemies ?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-mexico-and-canada-win-joint-bid-to-host-2026-soccer-world-cup
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 14, 2018, 10:31:23 AM
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/06/14/report-south-korea-military-exercises-suspended-indefinitely/
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: DoctorQuest on June 14, 2018, 10:39:25 AM
Quote from: Gusington on June 14, 2018, 08:39:08 AM
...

I know, RIGHT?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 14, 2018, 07:39:28 PM
 :buck2:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Steelgrave on June 14, 2018, 08:53:23 PM
That's a huge concession to the Norks. I hope 'Merica actually gets something out of this.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on June 15, 2018, 06:32:41 AM
Quote from: Steelgrave on June 14, 2018, 08:53:23 PM
That's a huge concession to the Norks. I hope 'Merica actually gets something out of this.

you know better, right?

when was the last time we cut any kind of deal with the Norks and actually got something out of it?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on June 15, 2018, 07:30:32 AM
Quote from: joram on June 13, 2018, 04:24:13 PM
What in the world are you talking about?

That morning, CNN was interviewing a couple of guys fired from the WH for reconstructing shredded papers from Trump's office (supposedly). Naturally they were being hailed as heroes.

If you mean how the Norks got nuclear secrets, that's a long and messed-up story which led to the Republicans trying a last-ditch impeachment of Bill Clinton on a totally different security-lapse charge (i.e. Bill's playdates with Monica).
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on June 15, 2018, 07:32:57 AM
Quote from: Arctic Blast on June 13, 2018, 09:28:35 PM
Don't worry, folks! Trump spent plenty of time producing a bizarre pseudo movie trailer to...actually, I don't have the slightest idea what this was supposed to do.

It's an appeal to Kim's ego to be the hero to his people and cement his place in world history, by going capitalist basically, and stop being a militaristic dictator.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on June 15, 2018, 07:37:53 AM
Meanwhile, according to a Sork "senior official", "U.S. military forces in South Korea are not subject to negotiations between North Korea and the United States because they are a matter for the U.S.-South Korean alliance."

No doubt that's true, technically: the US can't just pack up and leave. (Well, we could, but it would be a diplomatic disaster.)

https://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/news/story/0002/20180615/KBN1JB0EP_3
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: DoctorQuest on June 15, 2018, 09:38:22 AM
Quote from: JasonPratt on June 15, 2018, 07:30:32 AM

That morning, CNN was interviewing a couple of guys fired from the WH for reconstructing shredded papers from Trump's office (supposedly).


What I heard about this was along these lines. It is a law that all records, documents, etc. touched by the President need to be preserved. Trump has a nasty habit of tearing up stuff after he reads it which makes it a little bit harder to preserve things. They assigned a couple of folks to clean up after him and try to reconstruct the documents.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on June 18, 2018, 06:53:37 AM
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1008330598363090944


so wait...  I thought he already solved the Nork problem.  Now talks could break down?  How could talks break down if the problem is solved?  If the problem is solved then why would we need more talks?


Or are we just spinning more bullshit for a rabid frothing fanbase that just laps up every lie as though it were gospel truth?



as a reminder, if this was true, further talks would be unnecessary, right?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1006839007492308992

Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 18, 2018, 07:46:43 AM
I'll go with spinning more bullshit for 1000.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on June 18, 2018, 07:58:54 AM
Is North Korea currently still our biggest and most dangerous problem?

I mean, the two tweets can be harmonized pretty easily (not even counting for politico-twittery).  ::) "No longer, sleep well tonight," can have a sufficiently broad meaning.

A lot of people would say that President Trump is currently our biggest and most dangerous problem, far moreso than the Norks, so...  :crazy2:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 18, 2018, 07:59:44 AM
Quote from: Gusington on June 18, 2018, 07:46:43 AM
I'll go with spinning more bullshit for 1000.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.mentalfloss.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Finsert_main_wide_image%2Fpublic%2Fdaily_double_0.jpg&hash=126cf77f7263f72f30853772c039a57e6072e12b)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 18, 2018, 08:44:23 AM
Sweet!
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on June 18, 2018, 08:49:21 AM
I'm thinking that's not a good thing in this case....  :P
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 18, 2018, 09:08:43 AM
For the US and the world, no...but 2000.00 is 2000.00.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Windigo on June 18, 2018, 02:35:48 PM
I go with the theory that Trump's base loves watching 'libtards' froth at the mouth screeching like a bunch of sodomized hyenas more than they care about responsible and moral leadership.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on June 20, 2018, 02:21:06 PM
That theory <> wrong.  O0
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Windigo on June 20, 2018, 02:26:22 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on June 20, 2018, 02:21:06 PM
That theory <> wrong.  O0

You got a better one?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 20, 2018, 02:27:02 PM
Aliens.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bbmike on June 20, 2018, 02:32:03 PM
^There's a meme for that.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on June 20, 2018, 02:33:20 PM
Quote from: Windigo on June 20, 2018, 02:26:22 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on June 20, 2018, 02:21:06 PM
That theory <> wrong.  O0

You got a better one?

<> is an old math symbol for "does not equal". Thus "That theory does not equal wrong."

But you're older than math, so the misunderstanding is understandable.  >:D
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 20, 2018, 02:38:55 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on June 20, 2018, 02:33:20 PM
But you're older than math, so the misunderstanding is understandable.  >:D


:2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 20, 2018, 02:39:19 PM
Haha!! Prattled!
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on June 20, 2018, 02:46:01 PM
Quote from: mirth on June 20, 2018, 02:38:55 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on June 20, 2018, 02:33:20 PM
But you're older than math, so the misunderstanding is understandable.  >:D


:2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:

Motion is seconded...  all in favor?
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on June 20, 2018, 02:46:44 PM
YES
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on June 20, 2018, 02:59:11 PM
Really, considering he speaks Nephilim as his original language, it's a literal miracle he understands any of us at all.  O0
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on June 20, 2018, 02:59:58 PM
Speaking of bad lip reading, and also Norks and Trump, allow me to zig back onto the thread topic somehow!



Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on June 20, 2018, 03:17:34 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on June 20, 2018, 02:46:01 PM
Quote from: mirth on June 20, 2018, 02:38:55 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on June 20, 2018, 02:33:20 PM
But you're older than math, so the misunderstanding is understandable.  >:D


:2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:

Motion is seconded...  all in favor?


AYE!!
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Windigo on June 21, 2018, 02:16:52 PM
I was going to come in here and bitch about InfoPath and it's buggy nature, but this thread is already full of bitches.    :coolsmiley:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on June 22, 2018, 12:08:15 AM
Quote from: Windigo on June 21, 2018, 02:16:52 PM
I was going to come in here and bitch about InfoPath and it's buggy nature, but this thread bath house already full of bitches.    :coolsmiley:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Pete Dero on June 27, 2018, 07:55:27 AM
https://www.thedailybeast.com/watchdog-north-korea-keeps-upgrading-nuclear-reactor-after-trump-summit?ref=home

Infrastructure improvements at the Yongbyon nuclear plant, which is used to fuel the country's weapons program, are "continuing at a rapid pace," according to analysis by monitoring group 38 North.


But : "Just landed - a long trip, but everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office," Trump tweeted as he arrived back in Washington. "There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea."
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: mirth on June 27, 2018, 10:00:24 AM
Full article from 38north.org

https://www.38north.org/2018/06/yongbyon062618/
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on July 01, 2018, 10:43:36 PM
https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1013213598875824128
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on July 02, 2018, 12:18:09 AM
 :clap:
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Pete Dero on July 06, 2018, 08:17:53 AM
https://www.thedailybeast.com/pompeo-to-gift-elton-john-rocket-man-cd-to-kim-jong-un?ref=home

Kim reportedly said he had never heard the song, prompting the President to ask Pompeo to take the CD with him. If the North Korean leader even has one iota of comic timing, surely he'll tell Pompeo that denuclearization will take a long, long time.

And I think it's gonna be a long, long time
Till touchdown brings me round again to find
I'm not the man they think I am at home
Oh, no, no, no, I'm a rocket man
Rocket man, burning out his fuse up here alone

And I think it's gonna be a long, long time
And I think it's gonna be a long, long time
And I think it's gonna be a long, long time
And I think it's gonna be a long, long time
And I think it's gonna be a long, long time
And I think it's gonna be a long, long time
And I think it's gonna be a long, long time
And I think it's gonna be a long, long time
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on July 06, 2018, 10:31:12 PM
 O0
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Pete Dero on July 07, 2018, 10:31:20 AM
https://www.thedailybeast.com/north-korea-calls-pompeos-visit-regrettable?ref=home

A statement warning that Washington's "unilateral and gangster-like demand for denuclearization" has led to a "dangerous phase that might rattle our willingness for denuclearization that had been firm.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: JasonPratt on July 07, 2018, 10:57:24 AM
Insert M.Bison "OF COURSE" meme here.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Windigo on July 09, 2018, 02:19:54 PM
Speaking of Bison, he's been radio silent for a while...
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Barthheart on July 09, 2018, 02:28:19 PM
Maybe he was eaten by his herd.....
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: BanzaiCat on July 09, 2018, 04:38:28 PM
He's probably busy growing his herd again.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Windigo on July 09, 2018, 04:57:09 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on July 09, 2018, 02:28:19 PM
Maybe he was eaten by his herd.....

Or being herdmaster has exhausted  him....
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Con on July 09, 2018, 05:00:20 PM
Better to be seen than herd
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on July 09, 2018, 06:38:27 PM
No one's 'herd' from him lately? That herdly seems right. I'm buffaloed.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on July 09, 2018, 07:31:08 PM
Wurd to herd.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: OJsDad on July 09, 2018, 07:40:21 PM
He told his wife he was going to Origins. She told him no. He tried use the 'Man Card'.  She beat him with it and took his computer and games away
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Sir Slash on July 11, 2018, 11:24:57 AM
OUCH! Of course, there's worse things she could've taken away. ::)
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: GDS_Starfury on July 11, 2018, 07:38:40 PM
unless man card is a euphemism.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on July 12, 2018, 01:20:12 PM
https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1017421762383044608
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Windigo on July 12, 2018, 03:11:32 PM
He had a pretty entertaining reality TV show ... never thought the Peter Principle could result in this though.....
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: bayonetbrant on July 29, 2018, 05:22:34 PM
https://www.axios.com/without-firm-plans-us-risking-its-leverage-in-north-korea-diplomacy-892abde7-d777-4e98-8a95-aeaa79e71ec6.html

QuoteWhy it matters: After his summit with Kim Jong-un, President Trump said on Twitter that "there is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea." In breaking from his boss on this critical point, Mike Pompeo made clear that, more than two months after the summit, no concrete steps have been taken to address North Korea's nuclear threat, making the administration's transparency on the negotiations all the more crucial.

The details: Pompeo confirmed that North Korea continues to produce fissile material, the key ingredient of its growing nuclear weapon stockpile. When senators asked for additional details on the state of Pyongyang's nuclear programs, he offered to provide a response only in a classified setting.

Reports since the Singapore summit underscore that there has been no fundamental change in North Korea's nuclear program, which may include as many as 60 nuclear warheads. If anything, North Korea may be expanding production at secret nuclear sites. Shortly after the hearing, news emerged that the Central Committee of North Korea's ruling Workers' Party decreed that North Korea will never relinquish its nuclear arsenal, marking another break with Trump's assessment.
Title: Re: Nork Nukes Nearing Nuisance?
Post by: Gusington on July 29, 2018, 07:27:42 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/71/f8/cc/71f8cceadc80914704321234a216707b.jpg)