This time....B-17:Queen of the Skies

Started by JudgeDredd, June 17, 2016, 02:31:26 PM

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JudgeDredd



I am definitely going to get a campaign started on this. I've read time and again how superb it is - and I just have to get it going...this time!
Alba gu' brath

Nefaro

Very narrative.  Almost like you're generating a crew's story.

I recall it getting a bit repetitive after awhile, but that's not unusual for solitaire wargames featuring a series of chart rolls.



GJK

The most common complaint against B-17 is that as a player, you just don't have a lot of decision making to do.  I tend to agree with that.  I was disappointed to find the same was true of "The Hunters".  I still think that the best game that uses this solitaire mechanic that does involve the player (at least more so than others) is "Patton's Best".  But agree with Nefaro, even PB gets very repetitive after a short while.  That said, don't scrub the mission because of my negativity- find out for yourself and give us the details of how the mission(s) go!
Clip your freaking corners!
----------------------
Blood Bowl on VASSAL - Ask me about it! http://garykrockover.com/BB/
----------------------
"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son."

-Dean Vernon Wormer

GJK

Good timing - Stuka Joe has put up the first video log of his B-17 flight:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ulu6DBUUXJI

You might recognize some of the crew members if you follow wargame video reviews.
Clip your freaking corners!
----------------------
Blood Bowl on VASSAL - Ask me about it! http://garykrockover.com/BB/
----------------------
"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son."

-Dean Vernon Wormer

Silent Disapproval Robot

I've never played B-17 but was always interested in it.  A guy who used to come around to the nerd store once brought in his copy of Thunderbirds at War, which is a solo game that looks very similar to B-17.  This one covers the RCAF and Wellington bombers.  We did a co-op version of the game in the store and I enjoyed it.  I tried to get a copy of the game which came in Paper Wars magazine from Compass Games but I couldn't find it locally and the online retailers were asking far too much for it.



Nefaro

Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on June 19, 2016, 05:55:33 PM
I've never played B-17 but was always interested in it. 


Legion games has a pre-order up for it's version of B-17 QotS, Target For Today.  New game, new components, and adds B-24. 

http://www.legionwargames.com/legion_pre-order.php#TFT



Not sure when it's being printed, but they passed their goal and it's getting done at some point.









I have their B-29 version, and it's Hell Over Korea expansion.  I think the base game suffered from the historical circumstances of the theater match-up over Japan.  But it's very similar to QotS regarding mechanics.  The Korea expansion reportedly moves the worries back towards enemy planes & AA, as compared to navigation and fuel being the biggest problems in the Japanese bombing of the original (although I've not tried the expansion yet). 


Nefaro

Also saw that they've put another solitaire wargame up recently:



QuoteA Glorious Chance is a solitaire, operational wargame that puts you in command of the U.S. or British naval squadron on Lake Ontario in 1813. You have four months to dominate the lake. But each patrol, each convoy mission, each amphibious landing you make to pursue victory risks full-scale battle with the enemy squadron - a battle that could leave you triumphant or shattered in a matter of hours. A dynamic card-driven AI opponent assigns British missions, refits and launches new ships, and plots raids on your supply routes and coastlines.


http://www.legionwargames.com/legion_AGC.html



hrmmmm...   ^-^


JudgeDredd

mmmm

I don't know that I want to continue with this really. It seems to have got complicated - or just cumbersome.

My B-17 was hit twice in the oxygen tank in the tail meaning I had to drop to 10,000ft out of formation. I did the bomb run and then on the turn around, I was attacked by 3 waves of fighters. That's 9 waves (3 waves x 3 attacks because of out of formation). Then all the hits that go with the attacks!!

The first wave was 4 aircraft +1 Me109 (for out of formation). I was hit once in the pilot compartment on the instrument panel. I then roll again (twice) to determine the new attack positions for all 5 aircraft (a miss from these does not mean an automatic removal of them due to the out of formation)....

I then have to go through all that again - for the other two waves...and not forgetting I have to also check for low flak each time and all the hits that come from that!

I'm knackered looking up tables and rolling die!!
Alba gu' brath

GJK

That's the unfortunate part of a solitaire game sadly.  Patton's Best gets old too constantly having to refer to and then roll on a chart for every little thing.  So you'd think that a PC program that handled all that for you would make it an outstanding game; well unfortunately again, it bores you to tears.  There was a computer port of B-17- it wasn't pretty but it worked but it was just boring as snot because you're really not playing anything...you're just hitting "Continue to....", " Continue to.... ", " Continue to.... " all the time. 

Interestingly though, I watched about 10 episodes of Stuka Joe's go with the game and was totally immersed.  He did a really good job with those and it does what the game seems to not do; tell a story that really sucks you in.  You lose that when a life or death situation for a crew member rests on a simple 1d6 roll on a chart.  It is what it is though - good for a handful of missions maybe and then the repetition just gets to the point that it's not worth the effort any longer.   
Clip your freaking corners!
----------------------
Blood Bowl on VASSAL - Ask me about it! http://garykrockover.com/BB/
----------------------
"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son."

-Dean Vernon Wormer

Nefaro

Probably why I tend to play non-wargame solitaire stuff more often.   They tend to feature much more decision making and little to no charts, nor long DRM lists. 

A popular solitaire favorite is the Mage Knight Boardgame, as one example.  I think some of the card-driven solo games, like RAF and the D-Day series, are mechanically closer to these types than the charts & tables driven ones.  Other than the themes, of course, but there are advantages to game design outside historical constraints. 

At the risk of Gary burning me at the stake as a heretic, I think the most dynamic & decision-heavy solitaire strategy to be had is mostly in the fictional designs.  Even what I'd consider to be good solitaire wargames (i.e. some DVG & DG stuff) tend to get repetitive at some point in a playthrough.  Falling into using the same few strategies for success, and going through the same paces, since there are no large & regular situational changes or surprises to make you radically shift your strategy on the fly (a good sign of an engaging solitaire system). 

I need those, "Surprise!  Your plan hasn't survived contact.  Time to reevaluate and pull it out of the fire!" moments on a regular basis.  Keeps the thinkmeats warm, with more thinking & less slog.

GJK

No, no stake burning from me.  I don't even play fantasy based games but I can tell you that I just know that they'd make better solitaire games.  I imagine something like a dungeon crawler where you have many decisions to make such as where to venture to, what treasures to take, what weapons to purchase and use, what potions to drink, who to take along in your party....lots of choices that add to a story.  That's what makes a solitaire game a good one; the story that it tells and how immersed you get into that story.  You'd think that B-17 would have a good story to tell but all the charting and dicing just kill the mood.  Yeah, a fantasy game that uses a card mechanic where the cards have some cool looking artwork on them and there's a background story to go along with it...shit, I'll make that game if there isn't one already!
Clip your freaking corners!
----------------------
Blood Bowl on VASSAL - Ask me about it! http://garykrockover.com/BB/
----------------------
"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son."

-Dean Vernon Wormer

JudgeDredd

I did like the look of the game and I liked the sound of it - try and get your bomber crew through 25 missions.

I think what threw me was the fact that the first two missions resulted in nothing occurring. Enemy fighters were non-existent in both missions. No flak hits...straight bomb run with 20% and 30% hits on each mission.

This one, all hell has broken loose.

And.....maybe that's how I should be looking at it...all hell breaking loose.

I think I might write it in the form of a wee story. Perhaps that will help me to get into it. I can't do that more than once though - so if it is the "story" aspect the game needs to keep me into it, it's lasting one play through and then it's over.

I'll see about a wee story thing - see if it keeps me sucked in.
Alba gu' brath

Rekim

Cool to see this. Thunderbirds at War was designed by Michel Boucher, who is the president of our local wargaming club.

Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on June 19, 2016, 05:55:33 PM
I've never played B-17 but was always interested in it.  A guy who used to come around to the nerd store once brought in his copy of Thunderbirds at War, which is a solo game that looks very similar to B-17.  This one covers the RCAF and Wellington bombers.  We did a co-op version of the game in the store and I enjoyed it.  I tried to get a copy of the game which came in Paper Wars magazine from Compass Games but I couldn't find it locally and the online retailers were asking far too much for it.




CJReich46

I used to play with the Boardgamegeek.com,  B-17 QOTS 281st Bomber Wing, 8th AF.

In fact I recommend it. You sign up then you get notice on "The Target For Today" and then they determine your position, and then everyone runs the mission and you give your AAR.  You get the entire week to do your run, and report in.


" He either fears his fate too much
Or his deserts are small,
Who dares not put it to the touch
To win or lose it all."  - James Graham 1st Marquis of Montrose

JudgeDredd

Alba gu' brath