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Computer Wargaming / Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
« Last post by jomni on Today at 07:06:09 PM »
Jason that defeats the purpose of EA (crowdfunding). Devs need money to survive. If they are held in escrow, might as well not go though EA in the first place.
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Computer Wargaming / Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
« Last post by JasonPratt on Today at 06:35:37 PM »
Agreed so hard!! -- early access should be like a paid demo. The refund clock doesn't start until it goes to full release, and up until then refunds should be available for any reason.

The funds should be held in escrow, in a Money Market Account bearing some decent interest (by MMA standards). No one gets to use the funds otherwise until the game releases. It's too easy for developers to abuse the prepay system.

But of course Steam has no motivation to do that unless and until customers stop buying EA out of a general lack of confidence. Even a class action suit would be useless, since Steam protects itself up front by warning customers there may never be a useful final product.
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Computer Wargaming / Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
« Last post by mikeck on Today at 05:56:12 PM »
I like the idea of early access and many titles have done quite well with it. For example, Endless Space 2. I bought early access, the dev took note of bugs and play-issues, incorporated fixes and then released a final finished copy.

BUT, there are too many devs who create games that live in “early access perpetuity”. Games like Naval Action and Predestination. They are in early access for years and years while the developers are able to deflect complaints. Players complain that they bought a game 4 years ago and it’s atill a mess to which the Devs respond: “it’s in early access”. So yeah, I don’t appreciate being sold an unfinished product that will never be finished under the guise of early access.

I liked the idea overall. Even the best beta testing can’t uncover the game play problems that thousands of players can. And hell, who DOESNT like getting a game early? But I would Like to see some type of steam policy whereby a game gets no more than 1 year in early access. Once the game leaves early access and is released, then the Steam return policy kicks in as if you had JUST purchase it. That way, if they release the game from early access but it’s still not finished, I can get a refund.

There is NO excuse for Naval Action and Predestination. Games that have barely advanced in years and seem to use “early access” as merely a tool to allow them to collect money while they fail to have to release a finished game
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Computer Wargaming / Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
« Last post by joram on Today at 05:33:39 PM »
Nice summary Dennis.  I was wondering which titles people felt were failures vs successes (and everything in between)
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Computer Wargaming / Re: The Groginati Sales Thread
« Last post by Staggerwing on Today at 05:21:12 PM »
^ I do have the original.  Doh, that should have occurred to me I suppose.   :-[

That would be it, since I also have the base game and got a $2.49 price.
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Enigmas of the Mystical / Re: More Pix For A Laugh
« Last post by Staggerwing on Today at 05:17:10 PM »
I'd probably do better fighting with Jerry's kids.

Yeah, while those diabetic kids are at the top of their BSL spike they could clean our clocks.
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Computer Wargaming / Re: The Groginati Sales Thread
« Last post by Toonces on Today at 03:54:28 PM »
^ I do have the original.  Doh, that should have occurred to me I suppose.   :-[
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Computer Wargaming / Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
« Last post by JasonPratt on Today at 03:48:20 PM »
Some Early Access games fall into yet another category: the finished Alphas. These are games which are essentially complete game experiences, and sufficiently playable for a full game, but where the developer keeps adding new things (as well as ongoing bug patching and optimization, sometimes as a result of the new things breaking the game somewhat). They'd be otherwise fully released games, except for regularly adding new content, thus deserving the Alpha designation.

7 Days to Die, Fortresscraft: Evolved, and ARK: Survival Evolved are good examples of these, as well as (arguably) Empyrion -- Galactic Survival (which might lack too much planned content yet to count). Keeping in mind that 7DtD was never meant to have a game-completion state (and their new content updates have slowed down a lot).

I gather than Kenshi, which I backed what seems like 10 years ago as an Alpha on Gamersgate, also fits this criteria -- when I bought it, it was such a broken mess I've never felt the slightest desire to go back. But in the past year I've heard a lot of praise for it.

In another way, Man-o-war: Corsair counts, since the devs are still roadmapping new material (thus Alpha status) even though it's "officially" released. But then again, it may be abandoned.
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I realise that. But for post scriptum, a computer game. It cannot be avoided. If you do not have it in game, people just have an advantage over the loners on discord outside of the game. So they have a radio net that is more modern.

The Americans are coming. Did the at the time of Arnhem?
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One of the games in development that most intrigues me is Military Operations, despite the totally uninspired title:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/821680/Military_Operations_Benchmark/

The concept here blows me away. Detailed OOBs, ability to draw up plans on the operational level and then transition seamlessly down to the units on the ground, scope that appears to span most of Western Europe. It's kind of like Steel Division (or what I imagine/hope Steel Division 2, with its much-needed operational level, will be) to the 10th power.

However, I do have a healthy amount of skepticism that a very small, indy dev team can pull off a game this ambitious and genre redefining.  I'm pulling for them all the way, but I'm not hugely optimistic.

Perfect example. I also don’t see anything concrete enough to play. But a great concept.
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