Advanced Squad Leader

DV8 · April 03, 2012, 05:33:46 PM

Does anyone have any experience with ASL?

Thoughts on the game?

Barthheart · April 03, 2012, 05:38:08 PM

That's a pretty open question... open to starting wars! ;D

I started with Squad Leader, then added all the expansions and had lots of fun playing the game.

I bought, and still have, the ASL Rulebook, Beyond Valour and Paratrooper when it first came out. Never could bring myself to play as there were too many new ways of doing the same things. More and more and more rules... and no fun.... for me.
So I gave up.
I still have it all but it's not played now as I play LnL's Band of Heroes series. Way easier and more fun.

DV8 · April 03, 2012, 07:59:42 PM

Easier you say. I like the sound of that. :D

Now I need to find people that play it. Have you tried it on Vassal?

GJK · April 03, 2012, 09:14:47 PM

Quote from: DV8 on April 03, 2012, 05:33:46 PM
Does anyone have any experience with ASL?

Yes.

Quote from: DV8 on April 03, 2012, 05:33:46 PM
Thoughts on the game?

ASL is ASL and there's a reason that it's the benchmark for all WWII squad level tactical board games (and the desire of many to replicate on the PC). Those that don't know it say "oh, the learning curve and 300 pages of rules" but if they say that then they don't ASL. You can read 12 pages of infantry only rules and play dozens of scenarios. You just add new equipment according to different scenarios that you want to play (Machineguns, flamethrowers, etc).

Rarity in finding some core modules has always been an issue but Multiman Publishing is doing a better than average job of keeping stuff in stock. You can get the 2nd ed. rulebook and the first module (Beyond Valor) from their site now (or cheaper if you shop around).

Even better now is the ASL Starter Kits. $20 gets you the first kit (which is all infantry) and 6 or 8 scenarios that can be played several times (I've played them a dozen times each I would figure). They have SK's 1, 2 and 3. 2 adds Guns, 3 Tanks. You don't have to buy them in order nor do you have to own one to buy the other. The SK's have enough rules to get you playing and then you can decide if you want to jump to full ASL.

I taught my 12 yr old how to play SK 1 in about 30 minutes. We've played about 4 times and he's learning more and more stuff with each new scenario.

And wait! IF you order now, you get even more ASL goodness! You can now play it online. VASL/VASSAL allows you to play via email (yes, via email) or live online with people from around the world (there's a lobby). And it's newbie friendly. That's how I got back into it after a decade layoff. Vets LOVE to teach newbies because it keeps it alive and adds to the opponent pool. I NEVER had someone say "you dumbass, go read the rules again!" or anything even remotely close to that.

So plop down $20 on SK1, start to get the mechanics down. Install VASL and start meeting people online. Explain that ASL is new to you and you will start enjoying some ASL goodness in no time.

References below:

Multiman Publishing (direct link to ASL stuff): http://www.multimanpublishing.com/Products/tabid/58/CategoryID/4/Default.aspx

Starter Kit 1 Tutorials (this is a MUST read - grab the pdf): http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/40482/jay-richardsons-asl-starter-kit-tutorials-properly

Starter Kit 1 info on boardgamegeek.com (including link to buy it for $20): http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/9823/advanced-squad-leader-starter-kit-1

VASSAL: http://www.vassalengine.org/
VASL: http://advancedsquadleader.net/index.php/VASL

That should get you started.....

Bison · April 04, 2012, 06:08:58 AM

OK. Here's a question. I looked at the reprint of the ASL rulebook, but how do you get the map and counters?

Staggerwing · April 04, 2012, 06:22:34 AM

Quote from: Bison on April 04, 2012, 06:08:58 AM
OK. Here's a question. I looked at the reprint of the ASL rulebook, but how do you get the map and counters?

I only got as far as the ASL starter kit #1 which has US and German infantry units and map. Nos #2 and #3 add crewed guns and vehicles, respectively.

Bison · April 04, 2012, 06:26:37 AM

FWIW it looks like starter kit 1 is out of print at mmp and special order from nws online.

GJK · April 04, 2012, 06:59:22 AM

That BGG.com link has a link to a reputable online store that has SK1 in stock for $19.99.

A question was asked about if you get the ASL Rulebook, how do you get the maps and counters?

Well first, you have to decide if you're going to jump into full ASL at this point or start by checking out the starter kits (and remember, you don't have to go with SK1- they all have the rules from the previous kits and they all have at least one or two infantry only scenarios).

IF you opt to go straight to full ASL, then you need the Rulebook and you must buy the first core module, Beyond Valor. That has the maps, rules and scenarios covering the Germans (with some Russians thrown in).

You're looking at $150+ if you go that route.

The Starter Kits are a much more appealing option to a new player in my opinion and it's what they were created for. $20 gets you a very good feel for what ASL is basically like an if you like it, then jump to full ASL and if not, you're out $20.

Bison · April 04, 2012, 07:07:09 AM

After I pulled my head out of my 4th point of contact I realized that the full ASL starter kit is the rulebook plus Beyond Valor.

I have played ASL years ago. My brother bought a ASL box set, which to my memory had rule book, paper maps and counters. I'm sure my memory is fuzzy though.

I'll check out the link at BGG. Thanks.

DV8 · April 04, 2012, 07:31:03 AM

I guess the question is either go with LnL Band of Heroes and ASL starter set. It sounds like ASL has a larger following and more complexity in the long run (which is not a bad thing). It seems like BoH has a faster learn curve and LnL has better support.

LongBlade · April 04, 2012, 07:35:38 AM

I have a few starter games around here, including some Lock n Load games. Let's try to sync up next week and I'll bring some into the shop for you to look at.the one I don't have is ASL.

Barthheart · April 04, 2012, 07:58:51 AM

Quote from: DV8 on April 04, 2012, 07:31:03 AM
I guess the question is either go with LnL Band of Heroes and ASL starter set. It sounds like ASL has a larger following and more complexity in the long run (which is not a bad thing). It seems like BoH has a faster learn curve and LnL has better support.

What do you mean by "LnL has better support"? MMP has been supporting the ASL line for years. They reprint stuff... eventually. LnL's reprint rate is about the same.

Don't get me wrong, ASL is probably a great game and with the start kits maybe as easy to learn as Band of Heroes. I came back to tactical board gaming after a long break and when I found Band of Heroes and saw how it looked and played I didn't want to go back and relearn Squad Leader/ASL. Band of Heroes plays fast and easy and creates great naratives... gives kind of a war movie feel to gaming.

Band of Heroes plays a little differently than ASL too.
In ASL one side moves and shoots all his pieces thenthe other does the same. There is interaction during this as the non-moving player gets to defensive fire at the mover.

In BoH each side moves/fires one unit or stack of units, then the other player moves/fires a unit/stack. When your opponent is moving you also get a change to op fire. This goes back and forth until all units have acted or the players have passed in three consecutive impulses.

Both games are great at what they do. It just depends on what you are looking for.

MikeGER · April 04, 2012, 08:38:28 AM

I have SL and played it with a local wargaming buddy :)
...at that time i always longed for a computerized version (the collection of actual wargames do the trick ....more or less), which would provides a decent AI opponent and no need of driving to other places and solving the saving a game until the next WE problem too.

on ASL starter kits,
when you are new: get the The Advanced Squad Leader Starter Kit Expansion Pack #1 (2011 release)
it has: 2 Infantry only (new Starter Kit 1) scenarios,
2 Infantry and Guns (new Starter Kit 2) scenarios,
4 scenarios with Tanks (new to Starter Kit 3) of which 2 have tanks on one side only.

its stand alone
you then have most rules and can check - step by step - into the more detailed settings all with one ASL kit.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/58601/advanced-squad-leader-starter-kit-expansion-pack-1

you may also want to take a look at the Conflict of Heroes series
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/24800/conflict-of-heroes-awakening-the-bear-russia-1941
which has a very nice SL / ASL taste rubbed into it

( the good news a computerised version of CoH is also on the horizon, will get realeased by Matrix / Slitherine soon
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/424/details/Conflict.of.Heroes;.Awakening.the.Bear!
SL/ASL/CoH-vets will play it with the counters of course! ...the 3d models are just for the 'mass-appeal' ;) )

GroggyGrognard · April 04, 2012, 01:18:56 PM

Quote from: GJK on April 04, 2012, 06:59:22 AM
The Starter Kits are a much more appealing option to a new player in my opinion and it's what they were created for. $20 gets you a very good feel for what ASL is basically like an if you like it, then jump to full ASL and if not, you're out $20.

+1

Speaking for myself, after taking a break from ASL for a number of years, I found the Starter Kits were a great way to re-introduce myself to the system.

DV8 · April 04, 2012, 02:37:33 PM

I went with the The Advanced Squad Leader Starter Kit Expansion Pack #1. It got really good reviews on boardgamegeek.com and ASL seems like the most popular of the bunch. I'm sure the other games are outstanding but finding people to play with was a big driver for me.

Thanks for everyone's feedback. Much appreciated!