IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Stalingrad Discussion

[Dammit Carl!]

Sounds sexy.  Wonder if Post Scriptum will be just as good, but on the other end of the continent?

[Jarhead0331]

Sounds sexy.  Wonder if Post Scriptum will be just as good, but on the other end of the continent?

Is post scriptum going to have the interior of vehicles modeled in 3D with the option to jump into several different crew positions?

[Dammit Carl!]

From the looks of a couple of videos I've seen so far, tanks have multiple crew positions that are open to different players but couldn't say anything about 3d being supported at this point.

[Jarhead0331]

I just did some research and apparently vehicle interiors will not be modeled in PS. I can't say I'm surprised.

PS may still be good, but I don't think it will compete seriously in terms of sim-like immersion with what you have in IL-2 Tank Crew, which seems much closer to the Steel Beasts Pro type of experience, although certainly not at the same level of fidelity.

[Destraex]

Sounds sexy.  Wonder if Post Scriptum will be just as good, but on the other end of the continent?

Is post scriptum going to have the interior of vehicles modeled in 3D with the option to jump into several different crew positions?

I will check for you shortly

[Jarhead0331]

^I already checked. See above.

The answer is no.

[Destraex]

So you did. I was curious though so I had a look and the interiors are not modelled. However the mouse look within the postions (except the gunner who is locked to his target sight) still gives the feeling of being immersed in the tank. That you can move your head within the position. Which is pretty amazing for a tank and infantry combination FPS. I think red orchestra 2 though definitely had fully modelled interiors, just that they were not simulator like.

However the answer is certainly YES to jumping into different crew positions. Tanks generally have a crew of 3 in post scriptum in my experience.

I agree that Tank Crew will almost certainly be better simulation wise. Post Scriptum is multiplayer only. But they do promise to do a good physics model for armour penetration etc.
I find post scriptum armoured vehicles very immersive. But there is generally only 1 or 2 tanks per side per server. So far I don't see any tank "platoon" tactics. Just skirmishing on a very small tactical level. A simulator like tank crew or steel beasts will give you a much larger and more realistic theatre unit and mission feel with much larger maps. Post Scriptum is also missing the nuances of tank operation like gear changing and manual turret overrides etc that would be in a sim.







See how you can look left and right within the positions.


You can turn out in any position as well... perhaps except gunner which I did not try.




Notice how you sit back a bit from the open drivers hatch in this armoured car? You can mouse look left and right from within.
I know it's not the experience you were looking for. But I think for what it is, it's pretty well done.



Red orchestra 2 tank interiors on the other hand:

[Destraex]

P.S. I could find no way to adjust the sights on the tiger in post scriptum to make the range reticle swing inside this tank as it should. But I did find out the gunner has his own periscope that can be spun around!! How cool.

[IronX]

My early impression from owning both games is that tanks play more of a supporting role in PS, with occasional tank v tank combat, whereas IL2-TC is more of a tank (light) simulator. While tank interiors would be nice for PS, their absence certainly doesn't detract from the gameplay.

The interiors for IL2-TC are okay and hopefully will be improved with better lighting/shading and the addition of crew models. Also, there needs to be some form of feedback in the Expert setting, unless I'm missing something, as to what ammo is loaded, either graphically or via voiceover. I'm sure that in time, this too will be addressed.

[Destraex]

Irons do you know if you can change the range setting dial so that it spins in post scriptum?

[Jarhead0331]

Those screenshots look great...I would unquestionably jump on PS, but I'm really disappointed there is no offline play...

For the record, TC presently does not have higher fidelity features like gear shifting either. I think I read this will be added, though...?

[IronX]

Irons do you know if you can change the range setting dial so that it spins in post scriptum?

Doesn't appear to be implemented as yet. There are no key bindings for it.

You've probably found the same thing as me in IL-2-TC that unless you know the range, you are still going to be firing ranging shots. Admittedly, once the range has been found, setting it makes it easier for follow-on shots.

They need laser rangefinders!

[RyanE]

I didn't notice if this had been posted...

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/38073-update-and-resolution-to-deactivated-steam-key-issue/

[Jarhead0331]

I didn't notice if this had been posted...

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/38073-update-and-resolution-to-deactivated-steam-key-issue/

Wow! JD...looks like you are back in business! 

[Destraex]

For what tanks were killed by I found this to be very interesting. The video is very recent. You will note that aircraft had very little impact on armour. You will also note that when the German RPG style weapons came into being late war the ratio of kills with them became huge. Something like 25-35% in spring 1945 against the allies? It seems data from the Russian front is much harder to come by at least in English?
I am however not worried about the infantry's effectiveness of killing tanks, but rather that without them you change the way tanks were used and protected. In short, tanks are most effective with infantry. This is what I want to see simulated. As a tanker you want to be wishing for your infantry when you do not have them. You want to fear going near towns or in towns where you can be ambushed by infantry. You want to be spraying possible infantry positions with machine guns... but can you spare the rounds? You want to button up close to those possible positions as you will get sniped at and only unbutton at long distances. THe infantry scouting ahead for AT positions etc. You don't just want to bound around bumbling into AT gun ambushes all the time. At the very least you want infantry that can spot and take care of them or tell you where to shoot. That is why infantry had phones on the back of shermans at some point. Sure you could go on the offensive with your tanks and nothing else, you could lose your infantry support in the break out or leave them behind. But then their are only limited things you can do. Which amount to long range raiding. This is all that tank crew will be able to simulate I guess. But not even that without enemy infantry regiments. Maybe just localised skirmishes. Rather than being part of large offensives.

I remember reading about Russian infantry using old AT-Rifles in numbers to take out tanks at close range as they rolled over the infantry lines. Not sure how true that was.


This begs another question. How many tanks can fight each other at once?

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/37499-developer-diary-part-195-discussion/?page=4
On this page Jason confirms they do not have the time or resources to make infantry. So unfortunately this tank simulator is rather like a flight simulator with fighters and no bombers. 
What you essentially have is a fish bowl style simulator. Rather than a combat simulation you literally have the ability to drive around and shoot other vehicles in a vacuum. For $107 Australian I am amazed that they don't have the resources. I think they would get many more people on board if they did have infantry even as an addon. Perhaps we should lobby for an addon product that includes properly modelled infantry? Never going to happen right?

Perhaps it would be possible to get canned animations from somewhere so they do not have to do the hard yards? It makes me wonder if their new ww1 sim is going to do rising flight's hand signals? Do they have the rising flight source code? It's the same guys right?

For my money. "Tank Crew" apart from the tank interiors, seems to offer the same experience to me as war thunder and post scriptum do. The only differences I can see are a few support vehicles like AT guns and transports. The latest il2 has a reputation for being a "light" simulator anyways that is not too far from war thunder with a little more to learn to take off. I suspect the same "cherry picking" will be applied to the tank game. This is even though considering they did a whole flight simulator, at the same price which is a much more complex undertaking. They don't seem to have the "resources" to do this tank simulator if it involves developing new things in the engine.