D&D Core Books

Started by airboy, February 10, 2018, 02:27:40 PM

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Bison

It's really a separate topic, but 5e is as roll play heavy as the DM/players want to make it.  In my experience, older players are less inclined to role play and revert to more roll play.  I honestly think its a social norms thing.  Adults are just discouraged from imaginative play in part due to social pressures to act "grown up" and also the reality of adult responsibilities like paying the bills.   So the dice help create decisions and actions, which can itself become the norm of playing.

Another factor is the rules.  It really comes down to how often dice checks are required by the system.  Its one of the reasons that I'm not a huge fan of Pathfinder/3.5 D&D.  In those systems, there are seemingly rules for everything and many of those rules require some sort of check.  Want to open a door? Dice check.  Want to do a leaping sword attack? Dice check.  Want to negotiate a price? Dice check.  5e still has a good number of similar skill checks, but they are significantly reduced.  In the end, it just depends on what type of game the play group wants. 

In the game I run for my kids, I frankly ignore a great many of the checks.  They simply are not needed.  If it seems reasonable or, more importantly, they are having fun, I just let a good many rules slide.   I just try, and many times fail, to not get in the way of the story being created. 

Bison

Honestly.  If you want to compare a system, download Basic Fantasy Role Playing.  Its free and you can see quickly the difference between a rules light system and more rules heavy systems.  For example, the classes are discussed on 1/2 to 1 page of text each.  That's it.  The rules almost force more role play, because there isn't a rule or check to determine every outcome.

mirth

Quote from: Bison on February 18, 2018, 06:04:45 AM
It's really a separate topic, but 5e is as roll play heavy as the DM/players want to make it.  In my experience, older players are less inclined to role play and revert to more roll play.  I honestly think its a social norms thing.  Adults are just discouraged from imaginative play in part due to social pressures to act "grown up" and also the reality of adult responsibilities like paying the bills.   So the dice help create decisions and actions, which can itself become the norm of playing.

Another factor is the rules.  It really comes down to how often dice checks are required by the system.  Its one of the reasons that I'm not a huge fan of Pathfinder/3.5 D&D.  In those systems, there are seemingly rules for everything and many of those rules require some sort of check.  Want to open a door? Dice check.  Want to do a leaping sword attack? Dice check.  Want to negotiate a price? Dice check.  5e still has a good number of similar skill checks, but they are significantly reduced.  In the end, it just depends on what type of game the play group wants. 

In the game I run for my kids, I frankly ignore a great many of the checks.  They simply are not needed.  If it seems reasonable or, more importantly, they are having fun, I just let a good many rules slide.   I just try, and many times fail, to not get in the way of the story being created. 

Good thoughts. As a long time role player, it always surprises me when people can't or won't role play their characters. Too me, that is part of what makes the game fun. Not to say you need to be in character the entire time you're at the table, but some level of acting and being in character is necessary.

I agree with you about an excessive level of dice checks. I don't like them as a player and I avoid them as a DM. I've noticed it is an easy crutch for DMs too. Rather than crafting a cool dungeon/scenario, it's often easier to throw a ridiculous amount of dice checks at the PCs.
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airboy

A couple of observations on 5e.

The first section of the DM guide tries to get the DM to consider the type of world they want to run.  This includes how magic heavy, how god interfering, technology, how much order (wilderness/civilization), etc..... 

The first sections also get the DM to think through how much mystery (unknown in the world), combat heavy, role playing, give away treasure, etc...  they want.

The whole set-up of the 5e is to encourage the DM to decide the type of world they want and then make decisions accordingly.

If I wanted a "roll play" game I would just stick with computer gaming.  Live RPGs benefit from actual role-playing - at least that is what is fun to me.  I am not that interested in a system where the dice rolls determine everything.  I also don't want a world where the players know everything and everything is a very straight black/white existance.  I'm also not intersted in a rules heavy tactical combat game.

But people who want a tactical combat game roll play are just fine with me - but that is not something I would like to devote a huge amount of time to.

When I play Call of Cthulhu my characters usually follow whatever motivation seems reasonable to me.  That frequently works out to my character encountering so much weirdness that they disengage and go for help (or more friends with guns).  When I'm designing Call of Cthulhu scenarios, I'm trying hard to give each player a different motivation to unravel the mystery.  Otherwise, the "rational" player who sees too much weirdness and murder will either run away and say nothing, or run away and seek help from the authorities.  I've designed a lot of player hooks including:
a] care for the poor
b] care for the town
c] religious motivation to fight evil
d] "captain america" motivation to protect the innocent
e] insane level curiosity
f] insane level greed

bayonetbrant

Quote from: airboy on February 18, 2018, 12:09:43 PM
The first section of the DM guide tries to get the DM to consider the type of world they want to run.  This includes how magic heavy, how god interfering, technology, how much order (wilderness/civilization), etc..... 

The first sections also get the DM to think through how much mystery (unknown in the world), combat heavy, role playing, give away treasure, etc...  they want.

The whole set-up of the 5e is to encourage the DM to decide the type of world they want and then make decisions accordingly.

2 thoughts

1.  There's a lot of that detail in the Fantasy Hero sourcebook for Hero/GURPS from 25 years ago.

2.  "get the DM to consider the type of world they want to run" - uh...  ask the players?  I hope they mention it!


:)
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airboy

Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 18, 2018, 01:15:46 PM
Quote from: airboy on February 18, 2018, 12:09:43 PM
The first section of the DM guide tries to get the DM to consider the type of world they want to run.  This includes how magic heavy, how god interfering, technology, how much order (wilderness/civilization), etc..... 

The first sections also get the DM to think through how much mystery (unknown in the world), combat heavy, role playing, give away treasure, etc...  they want.

The whole set-up of the 5e is to encourage the DM to decide the type of world they want and then make decisions accordingly.

2 thoughts

1.  There's a lot of that detail in the Fantasy Hero sourcebook for Hero/GURPS from 25 years ago.

2.  "get the DM to consider the type of world they want to run" - uh...  ask the players?  I hope they mention it!


:)

They discuss what your players want to do at length.

And the 5e is not really claiming something new.  5e is after all 40 years or so after the advent of RPGs.  Not like they needed to reinvent the wheel or discover some great unknown elements of RPGs.

Bison

Personally, I'm running a home brew variant of Forgotten Realms.  The major reason being a lack of time to devout to creating a number of things that I want in a world political organizations, secret societies, and maps.  I haven't read any Forgotten Realms novels in years, so I'm actually pretty unaware of the written history and lore.  The Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide is the perfect level of setting building for me.  It gives a nice once over the world and more specifics on parts of the Sword Coast, but not a ton of details and lore.  And there are thousands of maps online for the Forgotten Realms.  There's always a new place to go and build our story, so it's a really good fit for us.  Right now we are running a through the beginner's box quest Lost Mine of Phandelver, which is actually a really good pre-gen module.  However, I've taken quite a bit of liberty with the adventure and am making tie ins with Horde of the Dragon Queen and the character backgrounds to create our world.

MetalDog

I had heard rumor that 5e was going to revisit the Known World setting.  So I have gone back to the Thyatis and Alphatia boxed set, Dawn of the Emperors along with the three or four Gazetteers I have.  Even pulled out my Keep on the Borderlands and Isle of Dread modules to give them a look.
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airboy

I had all of the original Gazetteers and ended up selling them on ebay.

When I retire and restart my RPG D&D and Call of Cthulhu stuff, I'll probably go back to playing the Judges Guild world.  It is truly massive and is mostly wildnerness.  I like a lot of chaos and rumor in my worlds, and I've found the D&D worlds to be too settled and organized for my taste.

Bison

I run Forgotten Realms with the vast majority of the world as being currently unsettled.  Once you move beyond the immediate influence of the regional city state or the boundaries of internally weakly aligned kingdoms, the world is anarchic.  The one foundation of FR that I really like is that massive and powerful kingdoms have risen and fallen over the millennia.  Lot's of great story lines and adventure locations can be created and explored.

Some day I'll play a Ravenloft campaign, but the way I'd like to run it is too dark for kids.  I have a bunch of Dragon Lance material, which I may bring out and play at some point too.  Great thing about RPGs is that old material can always be revitalized.


Bison

My current favorite game mechanic in 5e is passive checks.  (I know its been done in other games too.)

You can use them for every stat.  Stuck door?  Strong character can force open no effort, but weaker character cannot.  Trap? High perception. Hey its a trap!  Low perception?  Oh, shit I set off a trap.    No dice rolls for skill checks unless actively performing a specific task like searching for traps.

Rules based for more rule-centric gamer. The older kid likes to read the rules, therefore rules are very important to follow.  How come she saw the trap and I didn't?  Passive wisdom check...  Ok.

This all creates an easy means to distinguish between character traits and setup moments the DM wants to have an undetermined or more challenging success/fail outcomes. 

airboy

What exactly is: "The Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide?" 

Can you provide a link?

bayonetbrant

The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

airboy

What is horrifying to me, absolutely horrifying, is that I need to dispose of almost all of my D&D materials as well as my Call of Cthulhu materials.

Everything > 30 years old was printed on cheap paper (except the hardbound books).  I cannot read it because of my allergies.

The only bright spot is most of the stuff can be repurchased on PDF.  And some of the stuff I don't need to replace (Hello Tomb of Horrors!).

I started looking at Ebay and Amazon and many of the things I'm going to dispose of are selling at $10 - $40. 

This sucks so much.

Dammit Carl!

Any thought towards scanning your items to pdf rather than having to re-purchase them?

Having said that, I'm aware that I'm blessed working for a firm that routinely deals with scanning stuff from paper to pdf and vice-versa so I'm not certain how "easy," that would work in other places with other folks.

Sorry, mang.