Author Topic: Collapse of America?  (Read 4578 times)

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Offline bayonetbrant

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Re: Collapse of America?
« Reply #105 on: August 11, 2017, 06:47:36 AM »
Brant carries color copies in his back pocket to hand out to strangers.  Sort of like Hari Krishna's.

that wasn't Brant posting it, and Brant has already pointed out several issues he has with it.  Please don't make Brant go all third-person again...

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Offline bayonetbrant

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The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

Offline bayonetbrant

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The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

Offline bbmike

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Re: Collapse of America?
« Reply #108 on: August 11, 2017, 06:55:30 AM »
^That one is a bit hard to believe. I don't doubt their work but I would love to see how and where their poll data came from.
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Offline Pete Dero

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Offline bayonetbrant

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Re: Collapse of America?
« Reply #110 on: August 11, 2017, 07:37:41 AM »
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/346000-poll-about-half-of-republicans-would-back-postponing-2020-election-if-trump

At least they are optimists,  they think they will be around in 2020 ...

Elections here happen on a strict schedule, not when called by someone like a prime minister

Regardless of anything that happens in the US, the next Presidential election will be in 2020.

If an office goes vacant, there are very specific rules about how it is filled, and by who, and you only get special elections to fill out the end of particular term (like for a senator) if there's a certain amount of time left on the term based on when it was vacated. 

So if a Senator dies in office w/ 4 years left on a six-year term, there will be a special election* to elect a senator only to finish out the term, and then the 'regular' election on it's normal schedule.

If a Senator dies in office w/ only 18 months left on a six-year term, most states will just appoint someone to finish the term (governor appoints them; someone in state legislature confirms the appointment) until the next election rolls around.

They have to keep Senate elections on a fairly strict schedule so the entire Senate doesn't turn over all at once; they elect about 1/3 of them every 2 years.

The House of Rep's comes up every 2 years all the time, so they'll usually just appoint someone unless there's a really weird circumstance.







* usually - the rules vary from state to state.
The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

Offline airboy

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Re: Collapse of America?
« Reply #111 on: August 11, 2017, 08:33:16 AM »
Brant carries color copies in his back pocket to hand out to strangers.  Sort of like Hari Krishna's.

that wasn't Brant posting it, and Brant has already pointed out several issues he has with it.  Please don't make Brant go all third-person again...

Sorry - obviously your handout made a convert.

Offline airboy

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Re: Collapse of America?
« Reply #112 on: August 11, 2017, 08:35:44 AM »
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/346000-poll-about-half-of-republicans-would-back-postponing-2020-election-if-trump

At least they are optimists,  they think they will be around in 2020 ...

Elections here happen on a strict schedule, not when called by someone like a prime minister

Regardless of anything that happens in the US, the next Presidential election will be in 2020.

If an office goes vacant, there are very specific rules about how it is filled, and by who, and you only get special elections to fill out the end of particular term (like for a senator) if there's a certain amount of time left on the term based on when it was vacated. 

So if a Senator dies in office w/ 4 years left on a six-year term, there will be a special election* to elect a senator only to finish out the term, and then the 'regular' election on it's normal schedule.

If a Senator dies in office w/ only 18 months left on a six-year term, most states will just appoint someone to finish the term (governor appoints them; someone in state legislature confirms the appointment) until the next election rolls around.

They have to keep Senate elections on a fairly strict schedule so the entire Senate doesn't turn over all at once; they elect about 1/3 of them every 2 years.

The House of Rep's comes up every 2 years all the time, so they'll usually just appoint someone unless there's a really weird circumstance.

* usually - the rules vary from state to state.

Rules even vary depending on who is the Governor.  Our past Governor appointed Strange and said he could stay until the regular election.  When the Lt. Governor became Governor when Bentley resigned, she said Alabama law said elections to replace senators should be done "forthwith" and that 2 years was not "forthwith."  So we have a special election primary next Tuesday.

Offline acctingman

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Re: Collapse of America?
« Reply #113 on: August 11, 2017, 08:53:41 AM »

Offline Gusington

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Re: Collapse of America?
« Reply #114 on: August 12, 2017, 12:21:02 PM »
Watching images out of Charlottesville Va today and I would say that yes, America is collapsing...mostly because the authorities have no balls to save it and keep fighting groups separated, never mind getting different types of people to actually work together. America has a severe crisis of leadership. But I think everyone, or at least almost everyone here, knows that.
Quite.

Offline ComradeP

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Re: Collapse of America?
« Reply #115 on: August 12, 2017, 06:17:39 PM »
That touches on parts of US society that worry me most as an outsider looking at the US: the failure of desegregation in terms of creating a society where all ethnic and racial groups are truly equal, as well as violence against the state being tolerable.

There are people walking around with swastika flags in Charlottesville, and at least one protesters was killed, but you just know both sides will spin it their way, particularly the extreme right (being the aggressor in this case). These people seem to have literally no ideas what their fathers and grandfathers died for when they liberated Europe, nor do they seem to realize the Confederates didn't fight primarily to oppress coloured or non-Christian people.

The talk about a "history of left wing violence" that you sometimes hear pales in comparison to nationalist violence, like all the violence against coloured people. It's nearly impossible to understand as a European how centuries of racism are so casually ignored by many conservative Americans, or how they can pretend it was not what are typically seen as (extreme) right ideas that kept segregation in place. I think that plays a part in the current divided nation, that people have very different ideas about US history.

Similarly, violence against the state being tolerable is difficult to grasp for someone growing up in the average post-WWII Western European country. The entire concept of armed militias like those Bundy people a while ago is alien to us.

It saddens me how much credit the US has lost since the start of the century, due to how the country is seen as moving in the wrong direction in Europe.

Offline airboy

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Re: Collapse of America?
« Reply #116 on: August 13, 2017, 12:04:02 PM »
That touches on parts of US society that worry me most as an outsider looking at the US: the failure of desegregation in terms of creating a society where all ethnic and racial groups are truly equal, as well as violence against the state being tolerable.

There are people walking around with swastika flags in Charlottesville, and at least one protesters was killed, but you just know both sides will spin it their way, particularly the extreme right (being the aggressor in this case). These people seem to have literally no ideas what their fathers and grandfathers died for when they liberated Europe, nor do they seem to realize the Confederates didn't fight primarily to oppress coloured or non-Christian people.

The talk about a "history of left wing violence" that you sometimes hear pales in comparison to nationalist violence, like all the violence against coloured people. It's nearly impossible to understand as a European how centuries of racism are so casually ignored by many conservative Americans, or how they can pretend it was not what are typically seen as (extreme) right ideas that kept segregation in place. I think that plays a part in the current divided nation, that people have very different ideas about US history.

Similarly, violence against the state being tolerable is difficult to grasp for someone growing up in the average post-WWII Western European country. The entire concept of armed militias like those Bundy people a while ago is alien to us.

It saddens me how much credit the US has lost since the start of the century, due to how the country is seen as moving in the wrong direction in Europe.

Hey ComradeP - Hope you are well.  Have not heard from you lately.

Europeans will never get the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution.  Nobody was shot.

What we had in Charlottesville was a small group of young male Nazi nutjobs.  They were met with a different mob of young leftist nutjobs.  Both groups pelted each other with mace, teargas, sticks, bottles of water, bottles of urine etc.....  The police declared an emergency and the march was called off.

Much later, a solo nut drove a car into a mob of leftists and killed someone.

But what did we NOT SEE?
1] People in masks setting fires to cars and buildings.  Why?  Because Southern States have laws against wearing masks at demonstrations.  This is why clashes in California, Washington State, and other non-Southern states end up with so much violence and property damage that we seldom see in the South.  With no masks, you get very little arson.

2] Unfortunately, the young leftists did not ignore the Nazis.  We had a similar march by rightists at Auburn, but the lefties mostly ignored the righties.  Only arrests were idiot lefties trying to wear masks and start fights.  Masked people got arrested.  Same nutjob Nazis (including some of the leaders), but no deaths or even assaults because the lefties in Auburn, Alabama largely did not show up and engage in a fight.

3] You ought to visit the USA some time.  People of different races date each other, eat together, etc..... all of the time.  It is not even noteworthy.  At my poker game last night (in Alabama) 2 of the 8 guys were black.

4] There is no legal segregation in the USA.  Any thoughts you have otherwise are idiotically wrong.  And everyone gets taught in school, adnausum, how bad racism is/was.

5] The killing of minorities in the USA is almost totally minority on minority killing.  Killings by minorities against whites is far greater than whites against minorities.  The death of young black males in disputes and the drug trade, especially in cities, is horrific.

6] Again ComradeP - hope you are well.  Your views on this are without factual basis, but still good to hear from you.


Offline bayonetbrant

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Re: Collapse of America?
« Reply #117 on: August 13, 2017, 01:37:36 PM »
That touches on parts of US society that worry me most as an outsider looking at the US: the failure of desegregation in terms of creating a society where all ethnic and racial groups are truly equal, as well as violence against the state being tolerable.

ComradeP - unlike many of the other folks here at GH, I have lived on both continents, amongst the natives.  I attended German schools for several years, played for German soccer teams for several years, visited over 15 different countries along the way.  When I speak of the attitudes and beliefs of people, I'm doing it from the ground-level of personal experience, and not the macro level filtered through the various news reports of different countries.

I've never, ever encountered the levels of individual racism, nationalism, and outright xenophobic animosity that I experienced in Europe towards blacks, Greeks, Turks, and Arabs, and that was pre-GWOT.

A few years ago, a Columbus Crew soccer fan was caught on camera yelling about a New England player "he's a ni***r"
That fan was identified by video evidence, and banned for life from any league match by all teams.
An entire section of the Bernabeu was chanting monkey noises and throwing bananas on the field when a black player went to take a corner kick.  And that wasn't an isolated incident.  Guess what repercussions Barcelona suffered?  Squat.  Not fined.  Not sanctioned in the standings.  Not forced to play an empty-stadium match.  No one arrested, prosecuted, or banned.

I can transcribe my comments on the history of it all, or I can just let you guys listen to it here

http://www.bayonetgames.com/images/BrantOnTheHerdOnESPN.mp3
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Offline ComradeP

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Re: Collapse of America?
« Reply #118 on: August 13, 2017, 02:01:19 PM »
I hope you are well too airboy. As you start by calling my views "idiotic" and your tone suggests you somehow feel personally insulted, let's just leave it at that.

-

Brant, you wrote about that before, and I completely agree with you that there is a serious amount of racism in Europe as well. However, at least in Western Europe, the nature of welfare states means that though opportunities might not always be equal, it's close. There are bad neighbourhoods or areas in Western Europe as well, but there are few areas where drug-related violence causes disturbances like in the US. There are also fewer people from minority groups being shot by policemen.

Though it depends on the country, racism is - and racial restrictions were less formal than in the US during segregation. Attitudes towards racism have also changed in recent years, particularly in the last 20 years or so. The increase in Muslim immigrants and refugees has nullified some of those gains, but as a whole Europe is in a better position than when you were here I think. It's not paradise and racism is very real, but you can get good education and move out of bad neighbourhoods. France and to a lesser extent the UK are struggling with some bad neighbourhoods where people do get stuck in poverty and crime, but overall you have a reasonable chance of making something out of your life as a non-white and/or non-native individual.

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Re: Collapse of America?
« Reply #119 on: August 13, 2017, 02:05:37 PM »
It's not paradise and racism is very real, but you can get good education and move out of bad neighbourhoods. France and to a lesser extent the UK are struggling with some bad neighbourhoods where people do get stuck in poverty and crime, but overall you have a reasonable chance of making something out of your life as a non-white and/or non-native individual.

The exact same can be said of the United States.
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