Middle Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread

[IncompetentIdiot]

Alright, how do you all suggest we divvy up the remaining offices? Whoever doesn't receive a consulship/censorship could receive the new concession.

[Erax]

Here's my 'Turn 13 Something for Everyone' proposal (not in the sequence stuff will be voted on).

1. Raise the last eight legions.
2. Aristocrat Dictator.
2. Plutocrat RC, Progressive FC.
3. Militarist MoH + one province.
4. Conservative Censor (no prosecutions).
5. The Populists get a load of cash from their concession + one province.

The concession isn't worth giving right now, it'll despawn at the end of the turn because we don't have an active Land Bill.

[JasonPratt]

Note: I was incorrect last turn (and prior turns?) about the Master of Horse being appointed from literally anyone in Rome: I thought the idea was that anyone could be appointed to join the fight as MoH, and then come back to their normal Office, since win, lose, or draw, the MoH only acts that way for one Deployment and must come back home at the end of the Combat Phase. Consequently, since the MoH doesn't even function that way until late in Other Business (Deploying out with the Dictator), the Office can easily overlap with any other Office.

I still think that makes the most logical sense, but that isn't the official rule, as I discovered while looking through the question of whether the rules factor Enemy Leaders into allowing a Dictator for the Turn.

The official rule is that the MoH cannot have another Major Office except Censor, and he has to resign that if appointed by the Dictator. (Nor can he then be re-elected Censor the same turn: he already has a new Major Office.)

I'm certainly willing to house-rule on this, but I'll have to think about whether I should...

Anyway, putting Erax's suggestion in sequence:

1.) Dictator (I.I.) Proposes Plutocrat and Progressive Consuls. (No veto possible.)

2.) The Consuls (Erax and the Frog) agree Plutocrat RC, Progressive FC.

(No new PontMax needed this Turn.)

3.) The Consuls appoint an Aristocrat Dictator (specifically Scipio).

4.) The Dictator (I.I.) appoints a Militarist MoH.

5.) The Dictator Proposes a Conservative Censor.

6.) The Censor (AzTank) agrees not to Prosecute anyone as part of the preliminary deal, and with the understanding he gets a Province later.

7.) Censor passes back to Dictator (I.I.), who Proposes one Province to a Militarist senator, and one Province to a Conservative senator.
(Those senators immediately 'deploy' to their Provinces, leaving Rome.)

8.) Going into Other Business (I think that finishes Mandatory), the Dictator (I.I.) Proposes Raising the final 8 Legions (at 80 Talents).

(Note that if there's going to be any upgrade to Veteran defensive training regimens, it would have to be Proposed here.)

(ALSO NOTE! -- the new Concession isn't completely worthless without a Land Bill. It despawns back to the Forum without a Type 2 or 3 Land Bill, but it doesn't despawn before the Revenue Phase, during which it grants some cash to its senator. In fact, the cash even comes without a Minor Suspicion right now, because when the Concession despawns without a Land Bill, then it takes the Suspicion away, too! Anyway, if the Concession is going to be voted on, it would have to be before step nine.)

9.) The Dictator then Proposes Deploying himself and the Master of Horse to the 2nd Punic War with all Legions.

10.) They leave Rome, ending the Senate phase with the departure of the Dictator (as Presiding Magistrate).

[Tripoli]

I'm good with that.  As far as the militarists getting a province, it probably should be Aelius, as Julius and Manilus will be needed to be on call for their military ability.  Also, I would like to do some farming for popularity/influence, so having a militariest being penciled in for the 3rd Punic war or some similar chance at glory in the future would be appreciated, as I get nothing for being MoH, other than a chance of dying.

[malize]

Is that to be voted on at this time ?

[Erax]

Just a correction, the militarists get one province and the populists get the other one. The conservatives could have the concession.

[JasonPratt]

Just a correction, the militarists get one province and the populists get the other one. The conservatives could have the concession.

And Censor, per your original plan?

[JasonPratt]

Is that to be voted on at this time ?

Don't think so, he's just offering a plan for consideration.

Strictly speaking, I.I. would present this (or something) as a voting/action Contract, Players would sign onto it, or not, and I'd process their votes when/if a voting-majority of Players sign on.

[ArizonaTank]

The conservatives liked the idea of getting a province...  :-"

[malize]

The conservatives liked the idea of getting a province...  :-"

The populists have no problem with that.   I'll vote Yes on the plan with or without province to Populists.

[Erax]

All right, province to the conservatives and I'll take the concession, I need to keep a bad omen insurance on my PontMax.

[IncompetentIdiot]

Sounds good to me.

[Erax]

For future reference, JP's rules on veterancy levels are on page 65 of this thread. The cost for training our vets keeps going up as we get more and more of them but we might consider setting some money aside for the next upgrade.

[JasonPratt]

I only see 29 pages to this thread, so it probably varies according to some setting.

Since I'm still polishing and game-testing the various house rules, I'll post the Vet rules here again.

House rules on Veteran Reform: Senate can vote to spend Talents instituting training for superior Veteran strength in defense. For New Veterans (Level 0), i.e. until the first paid Reform, Vets only get double attack bonus. The first paid Reform creates Seasoned Veterans with the first defensive bonuses. All Reforms cost 10 Talents times the number of Veteran Legions + 10 Talents per level of Reform. Only one level of Reform is allowed per Turn. Training Reforms are permanent and affect all current and new Veterans going forward.

For Seasoned Veterans (Level 1), all non-Vets must roll for survival first in a cycle, then Vets, youngest to oldest Legions in each case -- which is often what happens with Veteran Legions anyway (because oldest Legions tend to turn Veteran first)! So only a small survival bonus. Currently the Senate has instituted Level 1 defensive training. (Originally I put this ability second and the Mature ability first, but on reflection that didn't make much sense: the Seasoned ability ought to be an improvement of the usual testing order for experienced Legions.)

For Mature Veterans (Level 2), standard testing order resumes, but Vets get 1 extra survivor roll for each fatal roll. Success on a second (not first) roll reduces the total number of casualties! (This has been upgraded, too, and is the main benefit of Vet defense.)

For Hastati Veterans (Level 3), combine both Level 1 and 2 rules. (The Vets are in training to be more effective at reducing army casualties, but are becoming more valuable to risk in the forward positions again.)

For Elite Principes (Level 4), along with Level 3, any successful Veteran survival roll reduces the remaining casualties by 1! This indicates the Veterans are now successfully rescuing the whole Army rather than only sometimes deflecting hits away from themselves.

Once Level 4 training has been reached, a final fifth category of Veterancy training can be bought for specific Legions, at 50 Talents per Legion. These Gold Veteran Legions will be denoted by a permanent gold coin on their chit, and are in effect entire Legions of Triarii: aside from being allowed two survival rolls, and any survival success reducing the remaining casualties by one, Gold Vets do not even roll casualties until a Gold-only Force remains! ("It has come to the Triarii!")

The Gold Vets will provide at least an Influence boost, maybe also Pop and/or Mil boosts, for the senators who sponsor their final upgrade to what amounts to a prestige class (since they aren't really any more effective in a fight than Principes, and indeed tend to act like spoiled pima donnas), but I haven't worked out the details yet. Sponsoring Gold Veterancy will also allow (not require) a senator to take their Loyalty chit!

[JasonPratt]

Sounds good to me.

Well, you're still the Dictator from last turn. I couldn't tell if you were making a Contract offer, so I didn't process anything yesterday.

The updated details, I suppose, would look like this. I have bolded portions where information is still needed like this.

1.) Dictator (I.I.) Proposes Plutocrat and Progressive Consuls. (No veto possible.) He must specify which senators to Propose.

2.) The Consuls (Erax and the Frog) agree Plutocrat RC, Progressive FC.

(No new PontMax needed this Turn.)

3.) The Consuls appoint an Aristocrat Dictator (specifically Scipio).

4.) The Dictator (I.I.) appoints a Militarist MoH, specifically whom at his discretion.

5.) The Dictator Proposes a Conservative Censor. He must specify a particular senator.

6.) The Censor (AzTank) agrees not to Prosecute anyone as part of the preliminary deal, and with the understanding he gets a Province later.

7.) Censor passes back to Dictator (I.I.), who Proposes one Province to a Militarist senator, and one Province to a Conservative senator, senators still to be specified.

(Those senators immediately 'deploy' to their Provinces, leaving Rome.)

8.) Going into Other Business (I think that finishes Mandatory), the Dictator (I.I.) Proposes Raising the final 8 Legions (at 80 Talents).

(Note that if there's going to be any upgrade to Veteran defensive training regimens, it would have to be Proposed here.)

9.) The Dictator (I.I.) Proposes giving the Land Management Concession to a Progressive senator still to be specified.

10.) The Dictator then Proposes Deploying himself and the Master of Horse to the 2nd Punic War with all Legions.

11.) They leave Rome, ending the Senate phase with the departure of the Dictator (as Presiding Magistrate).