UK Parliament on lockdown

Started by steve58, March 22, 2017, 10:08:58 AM

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Bison

I read a report about the American.  Tragic.

steve58

...and another rundown attempt.  This time in Antwerp. 

Quote
...the suspect is a French national of North African descent, who was wearing "a camouflage uniform" upon his arrest by Belgian police. This person also had more military gear and weapons in the trunk of the vehicle.
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JasonPratt

Quote from: Barthheart on March 22, 2017, 05:55:05 PM
Pretty sure Jason was making a comment on the NYT not understanding the history of terrorist attacks in Britain... which as we all know are quite a bit more than "relatively rare" as the article put it. Nothing to do with gun control.

Just to clarify, true. In fact I explicitly focused on "those first seven words".

That said, I did intentionally keep the dependent clause at the end of the quote, because clearly the NYT was trying to make a connective point of the first claim resulting from the second claim. I didn't include the author's context to criticize gun restriction laws in Britain, but rather was thinking in terms of the time-frame implied by the restriction in gun-laws. If the reporter had said that "Political violence is relatively rare in Britain the past two years" or since some event in the short range, that would have made more sense (if trivially so perhaps) than the longer timeframe implied by the gun restriction.

I might however have a false impression of how far back the author meant the gun restriction -- my impression is that British gun restriction has been relatively strong compared to the standard of the United States (the usual comparison intended) for literally all my life, i.e. since the early 70s (or even before then in Britain's history), a time when "political violence" was, well, rather more varied than at present. ;) And frequent.

The author probably meant since the total handgun ban in 1997. I'm unsure whether terrorism (i.e. political violence) has reduced since then compared to before then (and compared to what block of time before then).
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Father Ted

Quote from: JasonPratt on March 23, 2017, 02:53:57 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on March 22, 2017, 05:55:05 PM
Pretty sure Jason was making a comment on the NYT not understanding the history of terrorist attacks in Britain... which as we all know are quite a bit more than "relatively rare" as the article put it. Nothing to do with gun control.

Just to clarify, true. In fact I explicitly focused on "those first seven words".

That said, I did intentionally keep the dependent clause at the end of the quote, because clearly the NYT was trying to make a connective point of the first claim resulting from the second claim. I didn't include the author's context to criticize gun restriction laws in Britain, but rather was thinking in terms of the time-frame implied by the restriction in gun-laws. If the reporter had said that "Political violence is relatively rare in Britain the past two years" or since some event in the short range, that would have made more sense (if trivially so perhaps) than the longer timeframe implied by the gun restriction.

I might however have a false impression of how far back the author meant the gun restriction -- my impression is that British gun restriction has been relatively strong compared to the standard of the United States (the usual comparison intended) for literally all my life, i.e. since the early 70s (or even before then in Britain's history), a time when "political violence" was, well, rather more varied than at present. ;) And frequent.

The author probably meant since the total handgun ban in 1997. I'm unsure whether terrorism (i.e. political violence) has reduced since then compared to before then (and compared to what block of time before then).

I hereby (sincerely) apologise for my intemperate - and personal - comments.

But...

Yes, restrictions on gun-ownership amongst the general public will not impede political violence, however this guy was armed "only" with a car and two kitchen knives.  Perhaps if he had been able to buy guns easily a lot more people would have died?

jejo68

Quote from: Father Ted on March 23, 2017, 05:54:18 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on March 23, 2017, 02:53:57 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on March 22, 2017, 05:55:05 PM
Pretty sure Jason was making a comment on the NYT not understanding the history of terrorist attacks in Britain... which as we all know are quite a bit more than "relatively rare" as the article put it. Nothing to do with gun control.

Just to clarify, true. In fact I explicitly focused on "those first seven words".

That said, I did intentionally keep the dependent clause at the end of the quote, because clearly the NYT was trying to make a connective point of the first claim resulting from the second claim. I didn't include the author's context to criticize gun restriction laws in Britain, but rather was thinking in terms of the time-frame implied by the restriction in gun-laws. If the reporter had said that "Political violence is relatively rare in Britain the past two years" or since some event in the short range, that would have made more sense (if trivially so perhaps) than the longer timeframe implied by the gun restriction.

I might however have a false impression of how far back the author meant the gun restriction -- my impression is that British gun restriction has been relatively strong compared to the standard of the United States (the usual comparison intended) for literally all my life, i.e. since the early 70s (or even before then in Britain's history), a time when "political violence" was, well, rather more varied than at present. ;) And frequent.

The author probably meant since the total handgun ban in 1997. I'm unsure whether terrorism (i.e. political violence) has reduced since then compared to before then (and compared to what block of time before then).

I hereby (sincerely) apologise for my intemperate - and personal - comments.

But...

Yes, restrictions on gun-ownership amongst the general public will not impede political violence, however this guy was armed "only" with a car and two kitchen knives.  Perhaps if he had been able to buy guns easily a lot more people would have died?

What makes you think its hard to get a gun in the UK ?

undercovergeek

for the right people, in the right place at the right time i dont think it would be too hard

however, the fact that the two biggest attacks in the uk have been guys with fertilzer bombs and someone in a 4 x 4 with a kitchen knife or two suggests it isnt that easy

JasonPratt

I was about to say, maybe if this guy had been able to get fertilizer, or gasoline and detergent, easy and knew what to do with it...  :buck2: I'm glad it didn't occur to him -- or he was so spastic he didn't take an extra day to learn how to make a bomb, make it, and set it for detonation.

Anyway, my point wasn't to criticize gun ownership laws in Great Britain (or on the main island more specifically -- ownership laws in North Ireland for example are a lot more lenient). I was only thinking in terms of a timeframe implied by the statement, and on reflection I most likely had the wrong timeframe in mind.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

bob48

I was not aware that the gun laws are any different in Northern Ireland than they are in the mainland.
'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'

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undercovergeek

I don't think they are - otherwise there'd just be a queue at seamus o'hooligans gun shop and then back across the water

bob48

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'

'Clip those corners'

Recombobulate the discombobulators!

undercovergeek

There's always the guy with the balaclava down the road selling old ak47s

bob48

..or is it the guy with the AK47 selling old balaclava's?
'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'

'Clip those corners'

Recombobulate the discombobulators!

mirth

Or the Babooshka with the sword


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undercovergeek

Quote from: bob48 on March 24, 2017, 02:14:35 PM
..or is it the guy with the AK47 selling old balaclava's?

I'll take them all - good sales strategy

bob48

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'

'Clip those corners'

Recombobulate the discombobulators!