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Digital Gaming => Computer Gaming => Topic started by: FlickJax on June 07, 2018, 04:43:05 AM

Title: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: FlickJax on June 07, 2018, 04:43:05 AM
https://store.steampowered.com/app/806950/Victory_At_Sea_Pacific/

Looks good...
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: mbar on June 07, 2018, 06:33:52 AM
Yes indeed!
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Gusington on June 07, 2018, 06:47:43 AM
Wow, impressive.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: jomni on June 07, 2018, 07:07:32 AM
Ooohhh! The I-400 aircraft carrier submarine.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Sir Slash on June 07, 2018, 08:40:51 AM
Kind of looks like my first wife, pretty but shallow. Hope I'm wrong about this, I was about her.  :coolsmiley:
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: MengJiao on June 07, 2018, 08:50:34 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 07, 2018, 08:40:51 AM
Kind of looks like my first wife, pretty but shallow. Hope I'm wrong about this, I was about her.  :coolsmiley:

  It looks like marketting already got hold of this and pulped it into a series of vacuous cliches: real time, epic, sandbox (I'm surprised "rogue-like" isn't there too).  If you are desperate for some Pacific war there is always WiP Admiral's edition which truly has absolutely everything by the ton and more.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: mirth on June 07, 2018, 08:52:30 AM
My loins are unmoistened.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Tuna on June 07, 2018, 08:53:53 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 07, 2018, 08:40:51 AM
Kind of looks like my first wife, pretty but shallow. Hope I'm wrong about this, I was about her.  :coolsmiley:

Agreed, the torpedo spam in the video doesn't look realistic!
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: FlickJax on June 07, 2018, 09:57:26 AM
to be fair the first games was OK... not brilliant but definitely OK
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Gusington on June 07, 2018, 10:03:55 AM
Sometimes all I want is pretty and shallow.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: RyanE on June 07, 2018, 10:19:48 AM
Yeah, the first ones were semi-realistic and fun.  Its good having the strategy layer and then the tactical layer.  Its weird to compare it to WITP.  I would never even consider those as competitive at all. 
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: bbmike on June 07, 2018, 10:27:39 AM
Real time strategy war gaming...  :(

But this line gives me some hope:
Pausable gameplay allows you to order fleets and then continue the action
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: RyanE on June 07, 2018, 11:06:14 AM
Might help to take a look at what was said about the original...

http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=11735.msg303531#msg303531

http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=10266.0
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: FarAway Sooner on June 07, 2018, 11:46:07 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 07, 2018, 08:40:51 AM
Kind of looks like my first wife, pretty but shallow. Hope I'm wrong about this, I was about her.  :coolsmiley:

Come on.  You know if this game was called Victory at Sea:  Warhammer in the Pacific, you guys would be going crazy for it!
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Sir Slash on June 07, 2018, 11:49:20 AM
SO TRUE! Japanese Battleship Turtles vs American Flying Griffon Divebombers!  :D   Where do I sign-up?
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: MengJiao on June 07, 2018, 03:05:31 PM
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on June 07, 2018, 11:46:07 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 07, 2018, 08:40:51 AM
Kind of looks like my first wife, pretty but shallow. Hope I'm wrong about this, I was about her.  :coolsmiley:

Come on.  You know if this game was called [i[Victory at Sea:  Warhammer in the Pacific[/i], you guys would be going crazy for it!

   Yep.  If only there was such a game.  I made a mod to WiTP called Thunderball that was sort of like that.  I built the mod to beef up the Japs.  I was a Jap using that mod and still lost.  Twice.
Where is the Justice?  I'll tell you: never give the allied player any political points: he will kill you.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: jomni on June 07, 2018, 05:50:56 PM
Quote from: Tuna on June 07, 2018, 08:53:53 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 07, 2018, 08:40:51 AM
Kind of looks like my first wife, pretty but shallow. Hope I'm wrong about this, I was about her.  :coolsmiley:

Agreed, the torpedo spam in the video doesn't look realistic!

But in no way they claimed realism so I'm expecting arcade stuff here.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Tuna on June 07, 2018, 06:04:35 PM
Quote from: jomni on June 07, 2018, 05:50:56 PM
Quote from: Tuna on June 07, 2018, 08:53:53 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 07, 2018, 08:40:51 AM
Kind of looks like my first wife, pretty but shallow. Hope I'm wrong about this, I was about her.  :coolsmiley:

Agreed, the torpedo spam in the video doesn't look realistic!

But in no way they claimed realism so I'm expecting arcade stuff here.

Arcade is fine, but 'that' is ridiculous! LOL, the BB drivers in World of Warships would SCREAM!

Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Cyrano on June 07, 2018, 10:15:42 PM
The TTG on which this is based mutated a space combat game into a fun, playable, and somewhat silly brawling battleships kind of experience.  My friends who loved watching Midway but were having none of "Seekrieg" and the like became obsessed with it.

Lack of MP means I am disappointed and out.  Not acceptable at this point in the great arc of PC game development.

Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: jameseviltwin on June 08, 2018, 06:13:29 AM
Hi guys, thanks for the thoughts, it has more meat than the original by a long way. It is not a sim and we wouldn't pretend it was. Torpedoes launched from the IJN Kitakami torpedo cruiser. The rest of the ships don't spam torps like that in game. We will be looking at thoughts and feedback (we want to get the balance right on this game and have tried to listen to the audience) so always up for feedback as we go. We will be doing some Twitch videos to discuss the mechanics. If you check out the Steam forum we will be placing announcements about that. Then you can get a sense of what is going on in the game and if you have any ideas. If you have any questions let me know.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: RyanE on June 08, 2018, 07:46:22 AM
Is there a planned release date?  I didn't see one.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: jameseviltwin on June 08, 2018, 09:07:27 AM
We haven't confirmed one yet (we don't know ourselves yet tbh!)
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Cyrano on June 08, 2018, 09:42:56 AM
Kind of you to drop by.  I'd say brave, but we're a relatively well-behaved bunch.

Since you did, I'll ask, why no MP?
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: mirth on June 08, 2018, 09:43:37 AM
Quote from: Cyrano on June 08, 2018, 09:42:56 AM
we're a relatively well-behaved bunch.

since when?
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: sandman2575 on June 08, 2018, 09:50:45 AM
Wishlisted.

Have to agree with the other comments -- the one visual that does give me pause in the video is the absurd torpedo spam. Yes, the IJN was highly skilled in torpedo tactics, but give me a break.

Perfectly happy if this is more arcade than realism, but @jameseviltwin, I hope you'll be open to the idea of toning down some of the more flagrantly unrealistic things in the game.

Love that it has a full campaign layer. Definitely looking forward to this one!
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Cyrano on June 08, 2018, 10:01:27 AM
Quote from: mirth on June 08, 2018, 09:43:37 AM
Quote from: Cyrano on June 08, 2018, 09:42:56 AM
we're a relatively well-behaved bunch.

since when?

HUSH.  Quit scaring the nice guests.  This is why we never have visitors.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: jameseviltwin on June 08, 2018, 10:04:46 AM
No problem, I like constructive criticisms. It has given me some ideas about how better to deal with the torpedo cruiser (as I said most ships don't do this in game anyway, was just a cool visual for the trailer) One to discuss on the forums!
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Millipede on June 08, 2018, 01:49:57 PM
From Wikipedia, for whatever that's worth. "On 25 August 1941, Kitakami returned to Sasebo for conversion to a "torpedo cruiser" with ten quadruple torpedo tube mounts for the 61 cm (24 in) Type 93 "Long Lance" torpedo".
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: em2nought on June 08, 2018, 03:03:36 PM
Felt like things, aircraft, ships, torpedoes were moving too fast to me.  Contrails not so sure about.  The world feels so dark, like a "b" movie trying to disguise the cheap sets.  The Pacific always feels like it should be light to me, even if not in real life.  Needs some good Japanese mood music like Tora, Tora, Tora soundtrack too.  :smitten:
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: mbar on June 08, 2018, 04:18:58 PM
I'm getting a PTO IV vibe from the trailer which I thought was a fun game.


Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: sandman2575 on June 08, 2018, 06:57:52 PM
PTO IV looks pretty rad, actually!  Never heard of it.

I would definitely be down for a smart, historically detailed yet manageable Pacific War operational / campaign game. I love -- or maybe I should say, I'm fascinated by -- WitP:AE, but I've never gotten past about May '42 as (for me) the game becomes increasingly unmanageable and time-consuming.  Alas, Hearts of Iron never got PTO right and still hasn't. I'm cautiously optimistic about the upcoming 'Man the Guns" expansion, with emphasis on "cautious." Pdox has a lot to prove here, but if they can put out something resembling the actual war in the Pacific, I'll be thrilled.

That said, Victory at Sea - Pacific looks very promising, from the glimpse seen here.



Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Toonces on June 08, 2018, 06:59:43 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on June 08, 2018, 06:57:52 PM
WitP:AE, but I've never gotten past about May '42 as (for me) the game becomes increasingly unmanageable and time-consuming. 

Same here...just when it actually starts to get interesting for the Allies.   :-[
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: MengJiao on June 08, 2018, 08:48:38 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on June 08, 2018, 06:57:52 PM
PTO IV looks pretty rad, actually!  Never heard of it.

I would definitely be down for a smart, historically detailed yet manageable Pacific War operational / campaign game. I love -- or maybe I should say, I'm fascinated by -- WitP:AE, but I've never gotten past about May '42 as (for me) the game becomes increasingly unmanageable and time-consuming.

  There's a scenario that starts with things as they were historically in May '42, but I am doing my best not to play any more WitP:AE.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: sandman2575 on June 08, 2018, 09:56:52 PM
I thought the May '42 start scenario didn't have AI scripts (for MP only) -?

Anyway, I'm staying away from the never-ending rabbit hole that is WitP:AE as well.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: MengJiao on June 08, 2018, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on June 08, 2018, 09:56:52 PM
I thought the May '42 start scenario didn't have AI scripts (for MP only) -?

Anyway, I'm staying away from the never-ending rabbit hole that is WitP:AE as well.

  That is probably true.  I made a mod and tested it (or so I thought) against something that seemed like the AI ... but maybe it was AI without significant scripting.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Nefaro on September 07, 2018, 11:31:23 PM
So... this is coming out next week. 

Has quite a huge scope.   :nerd:   :dreamer:

Starting to get preview vids of it:


Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Cougar_DK on September 08, 2018, 12:58:34 AM
MagzTV also have a look:


Price will be $40 with a 10% launch discount.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: sandman2575 on September 08, 2018, 09:43:11 AM
I'm very excited for this. I always liked the concept behind Pacific Storm but felt the game (for a bunch of reasons) never pulled off what it was trying to accomplish.  This looks like it could be a lot more successful -- at least, I hope it will be.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: rocketman on September 08, 2018, 11:17:38 AM
This game seems to hit a lot of soft spots for me. Could be a real winner. Like the scale but also the option to go into details. And that you can alter the speed of time. Interface seems pretty straight forward too.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: RyanE on September 14, 2018, 05:14:54 PM
Just bought it.  It is missing many features from VoS.  No skirmish, no custom, no historical battles, and no comment from the devs on it.  Only one campaign available.  Its the US one until you finish it and then the others are unlocked.  I hate devs that lock content like that.  Let me play the game I want.

Very annoying.  Will set it aside until scenarios and UK campaign are available.

Edit:  It was stated by another player that the Japanese campaign is not complete yet.  That is why its locked.  There is some question if the Brit campaign is even going to be available near term.  This seems more like an early access to me.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: sandman2575 on September 14, 2018, 07:08:14 PM
Quote from: RyanE on September 14, 2018, 05:14:54 PM
Edit:  It was stated by another player that the Japanese campaign is not complete yet.  That is why its locked.  There is some question if the Brit campaign is even going to be available near term.  This seems more like an early access to me.


Yeah, it doesn't sound like it's quite ready for prime time.  That is disappointing.   :(

I would have assumed that the features available in Victory at Sea, like skirmish etc., would be in VaS Pacific. It sounds like there's no guarantee those will be added - ??

Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Sir Slash on September 14, 2018, 09:49:34 PM
Very disappointing.  >:(
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: RyanE on September 14, 2018, 10:23:12 PM
Supposedly the devs stated somewhere that all this content will be coming soon in patches.  Funny thing is I started up the original VAS and played for an hour .  I really like the scenarios.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Grim.Reaper on September 15, 2018, 04:00:41 AM
Glad others tried this first....I was cautious spending $35 on this at the moment and sounds like things are a bit incomplete and up in the air.  I did purchase the old version recently so will give that a try and see if I even like the game system.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Rayfer on September 15, 2018, 07:59:12 AM
Another excellent 30 minute YouTube video detailing the various game features.  This game appears to be quite deep, complex and allows for micro-management should one desire to do so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-GXmtyuEDw
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: sandman2575 on September 15, 2018, 08:47:00 AM
So wait -- as I see in that video -- the US campaign starts on Dec. 7 '41 -- but the Japanese *already* control all of the Philippines, Wake, Guam, and it even looks like the Dutch East Indies, Singapore, etc.   At least, that's sure how it looks around the 3:15 mark.

?????

Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Rayfer on September 15, 2018, 11:13:50 AM
Quote from: sandman2575 on September 15, 2018, 08:47:00 AM
So wait -- as I see in that video -- the US campaign starts on Dec. 7 '41 -- but the Japanese *already* control all of the Philippines, Wake, Guam, and it even looks like the Dutch East Indies, Singapore, etc.   At least, that's sure how it looks around the 3:15 mark.

?????

I saw that too...not sure what to make of it. Odd.  But apart from that, the rest of the video does a good job showing the depth and scope of the game. Not so sure how it will work running real time across the entire Pacific while the player is managing a specific battle.  Could get hectic?
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Ian C on September 16, 2018, 05:35:31 AM
The first version is on sale at GOG with 80% off:

https://www.gog.com/game/victory_at_sea
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: RyanE on September 16, 2018, 01:35:53 PM
Just got a refund.  Its not a terrible game, but, to me, without historical and custom battles, it pales in comparison to the original VAS.  I'll wait and see how this goes.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on September 17, 2018, 07:36:42 PM
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: RyanE on September 17, 2018, 07:55:50 PM
Its a good review and pretty much aligns with my thoughts.  I am refusing to reward a company for releasing a buggy and unfinished product when they could have just declared early access, give a big discount, and give themselves time to clean it up and add the content.  There is a very good game in there somewhere when its completed.

One point really frustrates me.  When you are releasing a sequel, how can it be so cocked up and missing so much from the original?  I would have thought the original would have been the starting point.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Pete Dero on September 18, 2018, 07:17:29 AM
Rather big discount at GreenManGaming : -28%  (24,47 € or around $24)

Victory at Sea Pacific https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/victory-at-sea-pacific-pc/?utm_source=Tomas%20Fedor&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=cj&CJEVENT=2d8a02abbb3c11e8817d06c30a180511

Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: sandman2575 on September 18, 2018, 08:12:53 PM
Quote from: RyanE on September 17, 2018, 07:55:50 PM
One point really frustrates me.  When you are releasing a sequel, how can it be so cocked up and missing so much from the original?  I would have thought the original would have been the starting point.

I agree. This is completely baffling. Aren't sequels supposed to build and improve upon the original?

Every indication is that VaS Pacific was shoved out the door way too early. With Early Access as an option, that's pretty egregious, IMO.  It makes one question just how committed the devs are to polishing and improving things. I truly hope they are in it for the long haul, because it appears that's what it's going to take to get this into solid shape.

A real shame. Pacific Theater is crying out for a good new strategy title -- especially one that hits a sweet spot between too arcadey (Battlestations: Pacific) and too overwhelming (WitP:AE).
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: RyanE on September 18, 2018, 09:09:45 PM
Another review.  This really seems to want to like it, but still trashes the state of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=482&v=cIjVJTSalKA
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Jarhead0331 on September 19, 2018, 01:35:59 PM
First patch available on beta build...

Quote

Victory at Sea Pacific: Patch 1.0.4 is on Beta

Hi everyone, now we have collated everything here is the first patch based on feedback, we plan on making this regular until we are all happy with it. I apologise to everyone where this has not met expectations, just know that this isn't some quick money garb from us, we want to make this the game we all want to play and will continue to improve, so please keep sending us your feedback as we will be tweaking and fixing beyond the bugs.

In order to play this game go into your library, right click on the name Victory At Sea Pacific and click Properties. under BETAS, select "Beta" there is no password required.

If it doesn't update right away select Properties again, local files and verify the integrity of the game.

Gameplay tweaks:

• If the target of a flight or ship's attack order is destroyed, they will keep attacking another target, instead of returning.
• Aircraft that are not their squadron's leader are shown as dots on the bridge screen.
• Increased the spread of all ship weapons and coastal guns, and reduced the accuracy of aircraft against surface targets.
• Supply convoys will try to oversupply ports if they have no alternative, rather than stay still.
• Friendly fire now does no damage.
• Ships' critical hit effects no longer escalate (resulting in suddenly exploding ships) after leaving a battle.
• Improved automatic resolution detection, and selecting a resolution on the options screen applies it immediately. Disabled aspect ratios other than 16:9 and 16:10, as these are unsupported.

Bug fixes:

• Improved landmass avoidance for ships.
• Non-player fleet markers are no longer selectable.
• The stats popup on the fleet screen is correctly positioned at higher resolutions.
• Reduced the sun glare, and fixed the midnight glow.
• Fixed an instance of ships loading with the wrong rotation.
• Correctly return squadron header to the list when failing to merge with a non-player-controllable fleet, or a fleet of a different faction.
• Supply convoys can no longer to be split.
• Upgraded anti-air weapons no longer take the place of gun turrets after loading a save.
• Swapped aircraft payloads gain the correct stats, and flights swapped to torpedo bombs no longer forget how to use them after loading a save.
• Fixed an instance of flights losing their global position.
• Fixed an instance of ships not using their guns while selected, despite the player not taking manual control.
• Added safeguards to prevent save file inflation. (broken saves should now work)
• Aircraft repair at the correct speed.
• Fixed an instance of ship's flight deck at full health being considered destroyed.
• Commodores are no longer promoted to the mysterious "Rank 9"
• Fixed aircraft flights being assigned to two airfields simultaneously.
• Crew can repair critical hits outside of combat view.
• Fixed an instance of flights readying takeoff while not in the launch queue, leaving them grounded.
• Fixed an instance of all fleets in the Pacific grinding to a halt.
• Ports take the correct amount of time to upgrade.

We will be fixing more of the strange aircraft behaviour and save/load glitches for the next patch which will be very soon.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Rayfer on September 19, 2018, 02:08:13 PM
Promising...I like the look of this one but have held off pending confirmation they plan to keep at it fixing the issues.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: RyanE on October 12, 2018, 08:34:33 AM
They have released several patches.  The devs seem to be actively trying to fix this game.  But looking at the issues people are having after the patches, I am skeptical they will fix this to the point I would rebuy it. 

Its a shame.  They had a good game to start from and seemed to have completely scrapped starting from there.  I would say the game was released barely in an alpha state, and might make it to beta soon.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: mbar on October 12, 2018, 08:37:12 AM
Thanks for the evaluation. Disappointing to hear though. I was looking forward to this one.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: HoodedHorseJoe on October 12, 2018, 10:27:40 AM
Not that I doubt your observations - I haven't had a chance to check it out since launch, but I always get a kick when people say "oh it barely released in alpha".

The game is feature complete, which nearly-automatically means it's in a beta state if you look at the official definitions of software states.

I'd have agreed with you if you'd said something along the lines of "it's not out of beta" which would be accurate considering this game still needs a lot of TLC. I'm sure it'll get where it needs to be eventually though, as from my experience with the game the grounding was solid enough.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Jarhead0331 on October 12, 2018, 11:11:06 AM
Quote from: WargamerJoe on October 12, 2018, 10:27:40 AM
Not that I don't doubt your observations - I haven't had a chance to check it out since launch, but I always get a kick when people say "oh it barely released in alpha".

The game is feature complete, which nearly-automatically means it's in a beta state if you look at the definitions of software states.

I'd have agreed with you if you'd something along the lines of "it's not out of beta" which would be accurate considering this game still needs a lot of TLC. I'm sure it'll get where it needs to be eventually though, from what I could tell the grounding was solid enough.

+1 Agreed.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: RyanE on October 12, 2018, 12:15:44 PM
Quote from: WargamerJoe on October 12, 2018, 10:27:40 AM
Not that I doubt your observations - I haven't had a chance to check it out since launch, but I always get a kick when people say "oh it barely released in alpha".

The game is feature complete, which nearly-automatically means it's in a beta state if you look at the official definitions of software states.

I'd have agreed with you if you'd said something along the lines of "it's not out of beta" which would be accurate considering this game still needs a lot of TLC. I'm sure it'll get where it needs to be eventually though, as from my experience with the game the grounding was solid enough.

I work in the tech industry and manage projects through internal, alpha, beta, and pre-release testing.  The game is not feature complete.  Missing campaigns and features that are supposed to be there are not working.  That is alpha on release.  You could argue its in beta now with recent patches, but campaigns are still missing and non-functional.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: HoodedHorseJoe on October 15, 2018, 03:25:48 AM
Quote from: RyanE on October 12, 2018, 12:15:44 PM
Quote from: WargamerJoe on October 12, 2018, 10:27:40 AM
Not that I doubt your observations - I haven't had a chance to check it out since launch, but I always get a kick when people say "oh it barely released in alpha".

The game is feature complete, which nearly-automatically means it's in a beta state if you look at the official definitions of software states.

I'd have agreed with you if you'd said something along the lines of "it's not out of beta" which would be accurate considering this game still needs a lot of TLC. I'm sure it'll get where it needs to be eventually though, as from my experience with the game the grounding was solid enough.

I work in the tech industry and manage projects through internal, alpha, beta, and pre-release testing.  The game is not feature complete.  Missing campaigns and features that are supposed to be there are not working.  That is alpha on release.  You could argue its in beta now with recent patches, but campaigns are still missing and non-functional.

Campaign = content, not 'features', IMO but I'm not actually here to argue the semantics of what state the game is, my actual point is that comments like these are not really helpful to reasonable discourse about videogames.

I agree with people that think it should have released into Early Access though. As much as I dislike what that program's become, the EA tagged could have soaked up a lot of the disappointment over the game's current state.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: RyanE on October 15, 2018, 06:15:21 AM
I don't care what you are here to argue about.  You are arguing with a guy that does project management and product management in SW for a living.  There are key features missing, campaigns, skirmish, refueling, aircraft management.  They just plain aren't working.  Feature complete means features work enough you can play the game from beginning to end.  And that is after three patches.

Why do you care if its being helpful?  The game is a mess.  It has potential, but its going to take a lot of work.  Read the forums for the game.  Its no where near a playable product as it should be played.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: sandman2575 on October 15, 2018, 08:05:54 AM
Quote from: RyanE on October 15, 2018, 06:15:21 AM
Why do you care if its being helpful?  The game is a mess.  It has potential, but its going to take a lot of work.  Read the forums for the game.  Its no where near a playable product as it should be played.

Agree with you, Ryan. I'm extremely disappointed at the unfinished state this game was released in. It would have been a day-1 purchase without question if it had been a feature and content complete game, which it clearly is not. The fact that there was initial confusion about why the IJN and Commonwealth campaigns were 'locked' -- Devs: "Oh, not locked. Just not finished yet" -- is all you need to know about the botched state of this release.

How the devs thought this was acceptable in the age of Early Access is beyond me. They could have earned themselves a lot of goodwill and player patience by releasing it EA. Instead, the devs' pretense that the game is complete and just needs the usual patching going forward seems misguided at best, underhanded at worst.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: RyanE on October 15, 2018, 08:33:15 AM
Let's not use my words on this "argument".  Let's bring a quote in the wargamer.com...

"The patches flow like water, but that does not excuse the fact that a full priced game has been shipped in such an incomplete state. Features are not all present as well."

That is my bold.

https://www.wargamer.com/reviews/victory-at-sea-pacific/

Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: RyanE on October 15, 2018, 09:14:29 AM
Saw this posted on the forum.   Just thought it was an interesting design decision.

"Their solution was to let you build ships in a much faster pace. 132days for an Iowa vs the historical 26 months. But in doing so, in order not to have hundreds of of capitol ships running around by 1945. they basically made them much easier to destroy. "
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: HoodedHorseJoe on October 15, 2018, 10:33:05 AM
If the game is a mess, then say "the game is a mess", don't use language like "oh, it's barely an alpha", which doesn't actually mean anything to anyone outside of software development and just comes off as smarmy and entitled.

You work in software development, so fair enough language like that is what you know and it makes sense for you to use it, but for ten years I've observed a non-stop parade of people saying similar things, for games in much better states than in VaSP and it's never helpful. I care because words have power and I'd prefer they be used carefully and with consideration.

I'd still disagree that campaign content is a feature; it's content, but that's just me.

QuoteTheir solution was to let you build ships in a much faster pace. 132days for an Iowa vs the historical 26 months. But in doing so, in order not to have hundreds of of capitol ships running around by 1945. they basically made them much easier to destroy.

Yeah this is the design decision that really summarises what this game is vs. what people's expectations might be. I'm honestly not sure what would have been better - a more realistic build-scale, which basically means you won't see many new ships (but current ships have more staying power), or what they have now, which is definitely arcade-y but at least keeps the action flowing and allow you to recover and react to developments in a way that's 'fun'.

I honestly don't think this genre needs any more hyper-sims, but perhaps this went a bit too far the RTS route. Time will tell I guess, and as we're discussing, the game needs a lot of work first anyway.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: RyanE on October 15, 2018, 03:03:52 PM
Still not sure I see your point.  Alpha release 15 years ago was a fairly insiders term.  As you even pointed out, its now relatively known and defined.  Your own webisite review stated missing features.  So what exactly is your argument again?
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: W8taminute on October 16, 2018, 10:19:05 AM
Hmmm....interesting discussions gentlemen.  From what you're all saying here plus the general consensus of the Steam community I will keep this game on my wishlist but will only purchase it when it's on sale for $5 or below.  Especially if they end up never even releasing the Japanese and British campaigns.  Never mind fixing the bugs that many have reported seeing (i.e. supply convoy bugs, units not responding to orders without any indication as to why, etc.)

If all the most annoying bugs are worked out and all content to this game is released I will buy it for $10 but not more than that (assuming they do something about ship build times and the fact it takes much longer than historical). 

If they fix the ship build times along with the other aforementioned requirements I will buy the game for $15. 

Why so stringent on the price?  The market is saturated with WW2 games so if you're going to publish a WW2 game it better have extremely compelling game play and depth.  The game should also have all features and content implemented as well.  Then I'll gladly pay the $40 they're asking for. 
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Rayfer on October 16, 2018, 11:35:33 AM
Quote from: W8taminute on October 16, 2018, 10:19:05 AM
Hmmm....interesting discussions gentlemen.  From what you're all saying here plus the general consensus of the Steam community I will keep this game on my wishlist but will only purchase it when it's on sale for $5 or below.  Especially if they end up never even releasing the Japanese and British campaigns.  Never mind fixing the bugs that many have reported seeing (i.e. supply convoy bugs, units not responding to orders without any indication as to why, etc.)

If all the most annoying bugs are worked out and all content to this game is released I will buy it for $10 but not more than that (assuming they do something about ship build times and the fact it takes much longer than historical). 

If they fix the ship build times along with the other aforementioned requirements I will buy the game for $15. 

Why so stringent on the price?  The market is saturated with WW2 games so if you're going to publish a WW2 game it better have extremely compelling game play and depth.  The game should also have all features and content implemented as well.  Then I'll gladly pay the $40 they're asking for.

+1  My thoughts exactly.  Glad you posted first, saving me the time.   ::)
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: ArizonaTank on November 28, 2018, 06:58:31 PM
How is the state of the game now?  Have issues been more or less fixed?
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: DoctorQuest on November 30, 2019, 02:23:17 PM
We are a year later than AzTank's query. I noticed the game on sale at GOG. Does anyone know if they have progress with fixing what appeared to be myriad problems with this game?
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: bobarossa on November 30, 2019, 03:54:34 PM
Steam shows 3 patches since beginning of October.  Last few months reviews are Very Positive.  Assuming those patches are available on GOG.  Apparently no one playing on GOG as last review is a year ago.  Their forum shows latest patch notes on GOG though.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: JasonPratt on November 30, 2019, 06:24:11 PM
GoG edition is at 1.6.2 as of Nov 18, 2019 (according to a developer thread there.)
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: DoctorQuest on November 30, 2019, 07:17:04 PM
Thanks, guys. I have been looking over the forums at GOG. I just wondered if any Grogs had any personal opinions on the state of the game at this point.

I do see they added the Royal Navy and IJN campaigns. That is progress. And they seem to be actively working the various bugs.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on November 30, 2019, 07:26:42 PM
I bought it when it was first released but shelved it due to the bugs.  TBH, I completely forgot that I had it until I read this thread and was going to go see about buying it when I saw it in my steam library.  I fired it up and went through the tutorials.  Seems much, much better now.  Everything ran smoothly and I didn't run into any of the weirdness I'd seen before.  No more submerged islands.  No bombers stuck in an endless circling pattern above a target, getting picked off one by one without ever bombing.

Looking forward to playing it now.

Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: Jarhead0331 on November 30, 2019, 07:32:58 PM
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on November 30, 2019, 07:26:42 PM
I bought it when it was first released but shelved it due to the bugs.  TBH, I completely forgot that I had it until I read this thread and was going to go see about buying it when I saw it in my steam library.  I fired it up and went through the tutorials.  Seems much, much better now.  Everything ran smoothly and I didn't run into any of the weirdness I'd seen before.  No more submerged islands.  No bombers stuck in an endless circling pattern above a target, getting picked off one by one without ever bombing.

Looking forward to playing it now.

+1. Was in the exact same "boat". Enjoying the tutorials. Game looks great. Love the map on the bridge screen.
Title: Re: Victory at Sea - Pacific
Post by: DoctorQuest on November 30, 2019, 07:34:49 PM
Yeah. I decided to take the plunge (HAHAHA) for half price. I really enjoyed the original Victory at Sea and had been looking forward to the Pacific theater. Like many others I was put off by the bug reports.