Strategic Command WWII: War in Europe

[W8taminute]

I'm interested but JD brings up some valid points.  Also is this game hotseat playable?  Couldn't find the answer over at Matrix but I didn't look hard.

[Sir Slash]

Becoming steadily less intrigued and excited. By the minute.

[solops]

Becoming steadily less intrigued and excited. By the minute.

+1.  Sad. How can you have combat, especially at this scale, without stacking? Are the single counters "boxes" that you fill with a mix of troops (tanks, trucks infantry, etc.) or is it all Inf or tanks? Kind of a make or break question.

[Raied]

There is no stacking at all, even for air units, here is a thread talking about since a year ago in matrix forum: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3870627
The air units can be far behind your main line, and can attack within its arrange without the need of physically moving it, and since the map is huge, I do not see this is a problem, only maybe in some situations where you have a far away isolated one hex island in the pacific and you want to occupy both land and air unit.
Regardless, the game still seems to be enjoyable, and I hope their design choice is the best for the game.

[Raied]

Becoming steadily less intrigued and excited. By the minute.

+1.  Sad. How can you have combat, especially at this scale, without stacking? Are the single counters "boxes" that you fill with a mix of troops (tanks, trucks infantry, etc.) or is it all Inf or tanks? Kind of a make or break question.

From the lets play on you tube it is clear that there is no mixed troops, there are separate unit of Anti-tank and artillery that occupy a hex as shown in the 11m24s:

[Moreb]

Well I'm going to have to go against the grain here and give the opinion that this approach is not only sound, it is welcome. I love the big games that delve deeply into historical accuracy and complex play that involve stacks upon stacks of units to shuffle to and fro. There are certainly no shortage of them on my hard drive e.g. War in the East/West, Campaign Series, Decisive Campaigns etc. 

There are, however, precious few games on the light side that offer fast play and streamlined control. Of those that do fall into this category, Panzer Corps, Commander: Europe at War etc none offer this big of operations while including a diverse number and types of units. PC is just too generic and CeaW much too simplistic.

It seems as though this game will fall somewhere between the two, in a space that is wide open. The game doesn't need stacking to be enjoyable imo. As long as it is plausible and fluid I think it will hit it's mark.  Let us move chits and build units that are not all cookie cutters. For all the times I don't want to clumsily go through the umpteenth stack I think it will be great. Never played SC before, but I am looking forward to its release.

Dozing off so that may not even make sense.

[JudgeDredd]

^Agreed that it isn't going to be "that monster" and will be in between PC/CeaW and GG:WitW and WitE and there's a market for that.

But I think it's going just a bit too simplistic again for me - it's just PC on a grand scale - certainly with regard to unit types and hex content

[Moreb]

Looking further at it, it seems it will be a little too much like Commander for my taste where the unit strength is a number and that their isn't much variations between like units. I would have hoped they had been more unique in their stats signifying various compositions giving different attack and defense values as well as movement, assault etc. I hope I'm wrong, but it looks like one unit is exactly like the next as long as the strength is the same.


Hmmm.


EDIT: Just read your post JD and I agree. Too generic. I despise the 1 through 10 strength number as stats.

[Raied]

That is the problem it is too simple and generic, I was hoping for something like HOI scale but turn based, balanced and working in smarter way without going very in depth regarding the simulation, but it seems like strategic command is more of B&P with a hint of diplomacy and research.

[Rayfer]

The non-stacking for ground units is ok with me, especially at this scale where most of your units are corps. It's the naval piece that is the big head-scratcher.  It ruined the older SC: Pacific War (or whatever it was called).

[Greybriar]

I don't have a problem with the non-stacking of ground units either. What I object to is the way air units engage ground units. Panzer General was released in 1994 and air units in it attacked land units from overhead, not from adjacent hexes. Why can't Strategic Command WWII: War in Europe do the same?

No matter how good the game is otherwise, it seems to have been designed in such an amateurish fashion that I don't have any desire to purchase or play it.

[Rayfer]

I don't have a problem with the non-stacking of ground units either. What I object to is the way air units engage ground units. Panzer General was released in 1994 and air units in it attacked land units from overhead, not from adjacent hexes. Why can't Strategic Command WWII: War in Europe do the same?

No matter how good the game is otherwise, it seems to have been designed in such an amateurish fashion that I don't have any desire to purchase or play it.

Not sure I understand your concern....you can attack units by air from a distance, you don't have to be adjacent. They will be attacked by anti-air units and interceptors as would be expected.

[Wolfe1759]

In SC your air unit represents (as far as I am aware, having played them all) your air base which then has an attack range which is what you use to "fly over" and attack  a unit and also to intercept.

Personally I like the non-stacking of the SC series and am particularly looking forward to going back to hexes.

[airboy]

To each his own.  I've played every one of the Strategic Command games.  The World War 1 game was especially good.  Naval combat has always been a weakness and I concur that the Pacific War version was not good.

In previous editions SC air units had very long ranges to hit opponents, run intercept missions, and what not.  Stacking the air units was not necessary given their combat system.

I like games with this degree of complexity.  I don't want games that I have to study like a second job.  But this is a personal taste thing.  Strategic Command and Order of Battle are about the degree of complexity that I find enjoyable in a wargame.

[Grim.Reaper]

One thing I am most curious about is turn processing time....I remember trying some of the old versions and it seemed to take forever for moves to happen.  Although I appreciate it might make the AI smarter, I just don't have patience for long turns:)