The Operational Art of War IV

Started by jomni, April 12, 2017, 07:18:16 AM

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Bison


Boggit

I'm really looking forward to this. I've been a fan ever since TOAW came out years ago under Talonsoft.
The most shocking fact about war is that its victims and its instruments are individual human beings, and that these individual beings are condemned by the monstrous conventions of politics to murder or be murdered in quarrels not their own. Aldous Huxley

Foul Temptress! (Mirth replying to Gus) ;)

On a good day, our legislature has the prestige of a drunk urinating on a wall at 4am and getting most of it on his shoe. On a good day  ::) Steelgrave

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vyshka

Quote from: SirAndrewD on April 20, 2017, 02:30:22 PM
Quote from: solops on April 19, 2017, 09:19:33 PM
Quote from: IronX on April 19, 2017, 05:41:20 PM
Quote from: SirAndrewD on April 19, 2017, 12:59:47 PM
I remember the old Three-Sixty game Patriot from the 90's.  It tried to do away with the typical hex and counter model, and it was pretty awful. 

One of the only wargames I ever returned to the store.

I was a beta tester on that one. We tried to tell them......I think the marketing suits must have demanded a release.

Yikes.  I can't even imagine what it was like to test that steaming pile of a "game".   I didn't even know they ran a beta back then. 

But yeah, I took that one back as well.  Story I heard back then was that Three-Sixty was more interested in Patriot appealing to the Army than they were making it functional for the civilian market, hence the horribly impenetrable mess that got released.   Joke was on them when both markets rejected it. 

I'll give it one thing, it was a pretty accurate simulator of headquarters level pre-battle staff planning.   Not really something I want out of a game though.  It "played" like a slideshow.

I'll be very happy to go back to the nice little counters in TOAOW IV.  And hey, if it's anything like the third game there should be graphics option to turn the counters into little army men.  Maybe they look extra spiffy this time.

The look of Patriot was very similar to what was being used by the Army in the early 90s.

ArizonaTank

Quote from: vyshka on April 28, 2017, 03:17:42 PM
Quote from: SirAndrewD on April 20, 2017, 02:30:22 PM
Quote from: solops on April 19, 2017, 09:19:33 PM
Quote from: IronX on April 19, 2017, 05:41:20 PM
Quote from: SirAndrewD on April 19, 2017, 12:59:47 PM
I remember the old Three-Sixty game Patriot from the 90's.  It tried to do away with the typical hex and counter model, and it was pretty awful. 

One of the only wargames I ever returned to the store.

I was a beta tester on that one. We tried to tell them......I think the marketing suits must have demanded a release.

Yikes.  I can't even imagine what it was like to test that steaming pile of a "game".   I didn't even know they ran a beta back then. 

But yeah, I took that one back as well.  Story I heard back then was that Three-Sixty was more interested in Patriot appealing to the Army than they were making it functional for the civilian market, hence the horribly impenetrable mess that got released.   Joke was on them when both markets rejected it. 

I'll give it one thing, it was a pretty accurate simulator of headquarters level pre-battle staff planning.   Not really something I want out of a game though.  It "played" like a slideshow.

I'll be very happy to go back to the nice little counters in TOAOW IV.  And hey, if it's anything like the third game there should be graphics option to turn the counters into little army men.  Maybe they look extra spiffy this time.

The look of Patriot was very similar to what was being used by the Army in the early 90s.

I actually liked "Patriot".  But I also have had plenty of military training. 

"Patriot" was much more like the way military units deploy and fight, or at least as they have done so for the last 100 years.  If you look at an actual military unit deployment map, it does not bear much resemblance to the traditional counter / hexmap game.

I agree that "Patriot" itself was not a great game.  I seem to recall the scenario was pretty boring.  But I remember thinking it held a great deal of promise, and was looking for more.

IMHO I do think that gamers have the ability to move away from the traditional counter stack and hex map to more realistic layouts. My example for this is Matrix' Command: Modern Air / Nav Ops.  If someone can play that game and enjoy it, they certainly could manage real unit deployment schemes.
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Pete Dero

http://www.matrixgames.com/news/2272/The.Operational.Art.of.War.IV.gets.a.Live.Preview!

We will stream Tuesday 27th at 11 am CEST / 3 pm GMT / 5 pm CEST and for the first time ever, we will be live simultaneously on our official Twitch Channel, Youtube Channel and Mixer Channel at the same time.

Agrippa Maxentius will play some of the scenarios available in the game, including Iwo-Jima and Korea 1951  and show-off the different strategies, the features, the key innovations and more.

Sir Slash

Good news. Thanks for the heads-up.  O0
"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.

Pete Dero


FlickJax


Rayfer

Quote from: Pete Dero on June 27, 2017, 01:02:58 PM


In the Iwo Jima battle it looked like the USA and Japanese counters were the same green color, with only the center oval around the unit symbol a different color. I found the confusing as I watched the video. Why would they do that?

JudgeDredd

That is very odd and hopefully something that's not going to be in the game
Alba gu' brath

Jarhead0331

Excellent point, Rayfer.

I was watching the video while doing work, and shortly after he landed his Marines, I turned my head for a few seconds. When I looked back again it appeared as if the Marines had already captured Suribachi, and I thought, "damn, that was easy!" Then I realized the counter occupying the objective was actually Japanese.  They definitely need to fix this.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Yskonyn

Yeah I was asking myself the exact same question!
"Pilots do not get paid for what they do daily, but they get paid for what they are capable of doing.
However, if pilots would need to do daily what they are capable of doing, nobody would dare to fly anymore."

Tamas

Indeed it's not optimal, but worth pointing out that unit colours are entirely up to the scenario designer's choice, the game itself is not "overwriting" that in any way. You could see the much more different colours in the other scenarios showcased.

Jarhead0331

Quote from: Tamas on June 28, 2017, 09:54:10 AM
Indeed it's not optimal, but worth pointing out that unit colours are entirely up to the scenario designer's choice, the game itself is not "overwriting" that in any way. You could see the much more different colours in the other scenarios showcased.

Interesting point. Thanks for noting. However, I hope these issues will be addressed, at least with respect to the scenarios that ship with the game. These type of things should definitely be caught by beta testers and QA.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Emir Agic

Does anyone else noticed wierd combat result when USA player attacked Japanese company on the beach? This is combat summary for attacker:



American assault was supported with tremendous air firepower. However, attacker lost 42 airplanes (permanently destroyed). Beside that his aircraft carrier is disabled. What is rationale behind such losses?

According to report, no airplanes or heavy artilery were involved on defending side: