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DCS Discussion

Started by republic, October 28, 2013, 06:25:38 AM

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Toonces

^ I think the frustration with DCS is deeper than that.  It's not buying into EA and waiting a year or two, it's buying EA and the project NEVER being finished.  My understanding is that Mi-8 and Hawk are both unfinished and unlikely to ever be finished. 

Now then, if you can live with that, fine.  But if the developer doesn't receive any compensation until the project is complete, then the dev has an incentive to finish it.  Otherwise, the potential for a cash grab exists.

IMO, ED has dug themselves a very difficult hole to get out of.  The idea was good, to build a modular combined arms simulator.  In some ways it is amazing.  But when they branched into two builds, and then further branched into WWII, I think they got into a very challenging development cycle.  Despite what ED says, there is no way that these disparate pieces of sim don't eat development resources.  Furthermore, the hodgepodge nature of add-ons highlights a lack of clarity.  Being wed to commercial contracts in order to feed the kitty is a big problem for hobbyist development.

It manifests to us as a simple lack of focus and vision.  Like, one can see the brilliance, but then they screw it all up. 

Anyway, this is a sim that I'd love to spend more time with and really get good at.  But every time I sit down to get it started, I get lost in the various installs, patches, what works with what and what needs to be activated, and I just realize that the time investment isn't worth it until DCS looks more like a complete product. 
"If you had a chance, right now, to go back in time and stop Hitler, wouldn't you do it?  I mean, I personally wouldn't stop him because I think he's awesome." - Eric Cartman

"Does a watch list mean you are being watched or is it a come on to Toonces?" - Biggs

Toonces

The sense of defeat at SimHQ is palpable.
"If you had a chance, right now, to go back in time and stop Hitler, wouldn't you do it?  I mean, I personally wouldn't stop him because I think he's awesome." - Eric Cartman

"Does a watch list mean you are being watched or is it a come on to Toonces?" - Biggs

RyanE

The gamer vs business contract issue is very similar to Steel Beasts.  But the SB devs have been very disciplined in commitments vs. expectations, as well as the messaging around that.  While they do tend to over-promise on the more technical side of things.  They are very clear that the business side takes precedence over the gamer side, as well as it directly feeds the development on the gamer side of things.

That discipline has been frustrating from a gamer development timeline perspective, but it has kept esims out of trouble.

Toonces

Good point.

I've always felt that SB represents a cohesive product, though.  I mean F-86 and MiG-15 are awesome, but where's the rest of the beef?  Where's the context?

I don't get that feeling with Steel Beasts at all.  Somehow, they manage to have focus over there.
"If you had a chance, right now, to go back in time and stop Hitler, wouldn't you do it?  I mean, I personally wouldn't stop him because I think he's awesome." - Eric Cartman

"Does a watch list mean you are being watched or is it a come on to Toonces?" - Biggs

RyanE

Part of ED's issue, I think, is the marketing and 3rd party aspect.  When a 3rd party starts working on a plane, the hype machine goes into overdrive.  Then when the 3rd party can't meet expectations or deliver, ED is left cleaning things up.  I also think they don't think of anything beyond the plane in anything more than superficial hype until its too late.  by then, the hype is out of control and when the plane comes out, there little to support it.

Just an outsider's perspective.

Nefaro

#740
Quote from: Toonces on December 01, 2017, 07:41:13 AM
^ I think the frustration with DCS is deeper than that.  It's not buying into EA and waiting a year or two, it's buying EA and the project NEVER being finished.  My understanding is that Mi-8 and Hawk are both unfinished and unlikely to ever be finished. 

Now then, if you can live with that, fine.  But if the developer doesn't receive any compensation until the project is complete, then the dev has an incentive to finish it.  Otherwise, the potential for a cash grab exists.

IMO, ED has dug themselves a very difficult hole to get out of.  The idea was good, to build a modular combined arms simulator.  In some ways it is amazing.  But when they branched into two builds, and then further branched into WWII, I think they got into a very challenging development cycle.  Despite what ED says, there is no way that these disparate pieces of sim don't eat development resources.  Furthermore, the hodgepodge nature of add-ons highlights a lack of clarity.  Being wed to commercial contracts in order to feed the kitty is a big problem for hobbyist development.


Agreed.

The letter regarding their divergences just looked like excuses for splitting their resources too thin, and progress lacking because of it.

I'm surprised they bothered, recalling the one they issued years ago regarding how they had to lose focus in order to cover their KS obligations.  It's not difficult to read between the lines in ED's messages.  They already admitted this was going to happen awhile back.  The wait is really setting in, though.  The sourness must be getting bad if they felt the need to make points such as their WW2 diversion being good training for their less experienced crew, and enticing some more customers into their other products, at the expense of their new engine everyone's waiting for being left in limbo for years.   ???

I still enjoy some v1.5 but damn are those crappy washed-out lighting effects bad.  Like there's a milky haze over anything outside your digital cockpit.   :buck2:  Hope they get their rears in gear and finally grind out 2.5 - in good condition.


Toonces

The response to the letter on SimHQ is actually pretty interesting.  Especially with regards to WWII, the consensus seems to be that most of the crowd has moved on.  In the time it takes them to develop a single warbird, BoS is cranking out entire new theaters of content.  And, BoX has meaningful SP to boot.

The point is, these years to decades long development cycles are driving away customers.  A fully functioning F/A-18C may eventually actually be completed...probably without carrier ops and that can work in Nevada or Caucasus, depending on which version it's compatible with.  After 27+ years they will have finally created something that still doesn't meet the gameplay experience of Janes. 

And by the time the vision is completed, will anyone even care?

None of this costs me anything, so I'm involved only from the perspective of an interested hobbyist.  But wake me in 10 years when the Hornet and carrier ops are complete.  Meanwhile, I've gotta invest my time and money elsewhere.
"If you had a chance, right now, to go back in time and stop Hitler, wouldn't you do it?  I mean, I personally wouldn't stop him because I think he's awesome." - Eric Cartman

"Does a watch list mean you are being watched or is it a come on to Toonces?" - Biggs

Yskonyn

I would be agreeing with you half a year ago. I am not so sure now.
I think the whole WW2 crew abandoning the project and them having to take it up, combined with the needed improvement of the engine and terrain tech (DCS v2) put too much strain on an already busy team.
A few professional contracts detracted yet again from the commercial effectivity and so delay on delay happened.
They then got to the point where it became much aparent that to become future proof the merge would have to be completed (v2.5).
They ran into several issues while developing the new tech. Now that 2.5 finally seems around the corner I'd say IF they indeed release it AND it turns out to be a stable version we'll see an increase in speed of releasing future stuff.
"Pilots do not get paid for what they do daily, but they get paid for what they are capable of doing.
However, if pilots would need to do daily what they are capable of doing, nobody would dare to fly anymore."

Toonces

Big IF and big AND.  I'm hoping, though.  Some of the stuff I read about the RIO AI for the F-14 sounds extraordinarily tasty.  It would be nice to see some of this stuff come to fruition while I'm still alive and able to enjoy flight sims!
"If you had a chance, right now, to go back in time and stop Hitler, wouldn't you do it?  I mean, I personally wouldn't stop him because I think he's awesome." - Eric Cartman

"Does a watch list mean you are being watched or is it a come on to Toonces?" - Biggs

JudgeDredd

I'm not sure if this has been posted - but wth

Alba gu' brath

Toonces

Oh, well now I'm all in!   :bd:

Flaming AMRAAM makes cool (and distressingly similar) videos, now doubt.

Jesus, I sound like a SimHQ acolyte.
"If you had a chance, right now, to go back in time and stop Hitler, wouldn't you do it?  I mean, I personally wouldn't stop him because I think he's awesome." - Eric Cartman

"Does a watch list mean you are being watched or is it a come on to Toonces?" - Biggs

JudgeDredd

Alba gu' brath

JudgeDredd

Vertical take off and landing today. The landing can be classed as successful though costly  :buck2:
Alba gu' brath

Nefaro

Quote from: JudgeDredd on December 02, 2017, 12:52:54 PM
Vertical take off and landing today. The landing can be classed as successful though costly  :buck2:

When you successfully do... pics or it didn't happen!   :))

You should've seen my first two attempts at landing the MiG-21.  I had heard that it's need for a low & fast landing was troublesome to get used to.  They were right.  I've turned into a wingless flaming pencil barreling through the grass twice thus far.  More expected.  :uglystupid2:

Jarhead0331

Quote from: JudgeDredd on December 02, 2017, 12:52:54 PM
Vertical take off and landing today. The landing can be classed as successful though costly  :buck2:

Good job! I only tried VTOL once. Didn't end well. I'm going to stick to traditional flight for the time being.  :-[
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18