An Idiots Guide To Losing Your CV's Before 1942: WiTP:AE KyzBP vs UCG

[FarAway Sooner]

Kyz, I've spent the last 5 days reading all 36 pages of this post, and I've got to tip my hat to both you and Geek for the great gaming, your detailed accounts, and great writing.  It's truly been a pleasure!  I had so many witty comments to throw out, but I'll limit myself to a few here:

1) I give a very hearty endorsement to Bergerud's Fire in the Sky.  It's a fascinating read, although the level of detail he goes into numbs my mind from time to time (I'm still trying to understand why going upside down for any significant period of time caused more fuel pump-related stalls in some engine types but not others).

2) Pacific Crucible is also a fascinating book.  I haven't read the others, but I strongly recommend both of those.

3) Another book that gives a great account of what carrier operations were like in the opening stages of the war is Parshall and Tully's Shattered Sword.  It's the definitive retelling of the Battle of Midway and provides a more balanced account (incorporates more info from both sides and draws on a lot of Japanese academic sources since the last generation of Midway books was written 30-40 years ago).  Shattered Sword is the best of the books I've mentioned here, but since nobody's shot anything down at Midway...   :'(

4) At least the British have left the Americans with a shot at the more dubious title of First Monoplanes to Sink a Japanese Carrier.  At the rate of attrition I'm seeing there, I'm imagining you're going to end up with one damaged Swordfish trying to drop a beer can full of nails on a flaming Japanese DD...

Seriously, keep it up.  This is frickin' awesome!

[KyzBP]

It's gonna KILL Geekamoto to find out that beating at Rockhampton was an accident. Can't wait. 

Lol.  In case you haven't noticed, Slash, most of my great tactical achievements have been, let's say, unplanned.

Kyz, I've spent the last 5 days reading all 36 pages of this post, and I've got to tip my hat to both you and Geek for the great gaming, your detailed accounts, and great writing.  It's truly been a pleasure!  I had so many witty comments to throw out, but I'll limit myself to a few here:

1) I give a very hearty endorsement to Bergerud's Fire in the Sky.  It's a fascinating read, although the level of detail he goes into numbs my mind from time to time (I'm still trying to understand why going upside down for any significant period of time caused more fuel pump-related stalls in some engine types but not others).

2) Pacific Crucible is also a fascinating book.  I haven't read the others, but I strongly recommend both of those.

3) Another book that gives a great account of what carrier operations were like in the opening stages of the war is Parshall and Tully's Shattered Sword.  It's the definitive retelling of the Battle of Midway and provides a more balanced account (incorporates more info from both sides and draws on a lot of Japanese academic sources since the last generation of Midway books was written 30-40 years ago).  Shattered Sword is the best of the books I've mentioned here, but since nobody's shot anything down at Midway...   :'(

Seriously, keep it up.  This is frickin' awesome!

Thanks very much, FarAway!  The book recommendations have been excellent and I'll add Shattered Sword to the mix.

4) At least the British have left the Americans with a shot at the more dubious title of First Monoplanes to Sink a Japanese Carrier.  At the rate of attrition I'm seeing there, I'm imagining you're going to end up with one damaged Swordfish trying to drop a beer can full of nails on a flaming Japanese DD...

I love every part of this sentence...mostly because it's true. O0

[KyzBP]

March 10th, 1942

I mentioned a few days ago that the sub war had intensified.  Here's a day's worth of hot, steamy, sub action.

First the SS Gudgeon (whatever that is) takes a shot in Mary's harbor (not a euphemism).

It would've been nice if he could've hit this AK last turn but beggar's can't be choosers and I'm always grateful when
a US torp explodes.

The SS KXV hits an AK at Port Moresby.

I have almost no idea what's going on at PM but he'll have 1 less ship in which to do it.

Back at Mary, the Gudgeon goes for the unheard of feat of 2 ships in 1 day.

And it's in the hole!  This Captain will receive some type of shiny medal for this and probably by more than one country.

But wait, there's more! 

This guy runs out of torps, says "F it!" and goes to guns!  That's 3 AK's in one day at one location.  The captain is now at
the top of Geek's Most Wanted-San list.  I really hope this guy, E.W. Grenfel survives the war...or the week.

We continued peppering Moulmein.

We're still getting good results here and I don't think there's anything Geek can do about it right now.  He'll come
up with something soon I'm sure.

I also dropped in on North Male and let Geek know I hadn't forgotten about these guys.

I'm still clueless as to the purpose of this conquest.  It may have been just to show me he could but as long as the
Brit carriers are in the area these guys will go unsupplied and intermittently harassed.  Once/If things stabilize in Australia
I'll send some troops here and reclaim what is ours.

That was really all for today.  Manila took a bombardment but no assault.  Geek looks like he's headed for Brisbane by land so
I should be able to get a bombardment or 2 on him, plus the bombings.  His carriers near Canton disappeared.  I'm not sure where
they went but I expect them to pop up soon.  The bombings at Padang also continued.  I desperately need CAP there.  If only
I had a spare carrier with Martlet's (Brit Wildcats) at, let's say Diego Garcia... 

[Sir Slash]

Hey KyzBP. All those damaged ships, do they have to immediately return to base to be repaired or can they still perform a role while damaged? And do you have to create a separate damaged-ship convoy to get them home?

[KyzBP]

Hey KyzBP. All those damaged ships, do they have to immediately return to base to be repaired or can they still perform a role while damaged? And do you have to create a separate damaged-ship convoy to get them home?

The damaged ships can still function depending on the type of damage.  Damaged engines and hull slow the ships speed, damaged guns reduce the amount of damage the ship can do or how frequently it fires during combat and so on.  Usually if a ships is severely damaged in combat the computer will detach that ship and an escort from the main TF.  I hope that makes sense. 

[KyzBP]

March 11th, 1942

The subs go at it again.

It's nice to get one off the coast of Japan.  I'd like to get a few more, filled with oil or resources.  One filled with troops
would be even better.

Then another one of these encounters takes place:

I imagine the Perch was on the surface or trailing oil.  She got beat up pretty good by some ASW activity off of Japan and
was heading home for repairs.  I haven't had a chance to look and see if she survived.  If she did then I'll try to get her to
one of the AM islands and bring the repair ship to her.

I continue to hit Moulmein.

We're damaging a lot of planes and killing a good number of personnel but we're not destroying many planes.  That's really
the whole point of this exercise.  I'll keep doing it though.  It's not costing me anything...yet.

The bombings have moved to Siberoet.

After seeing how many bombers he can muster here, I don't think I'll bring any carriers here yet.  If I misjudge how far I need to
standoff then I will certainly lose some carriers.  I have to figure out a solution to these bombing raids.  The good thing is once I
do I should be able to do some serious damage to them as Geek hardly sends any escort with them.

My TF of damaged Surface Combat ships strikes again.

These guys are doing the impossible right now.  One of the B-17's flying search missions spotted these guys unloading and unescorted.
I think, if Geek can, he's going to hit Darwin soon.  If he knew the miserable condition these ships are in he'd do it now.

I found Geek's carriers.

Err, should I say they found me.  He hit a supply ship, which is no big deal.  What is a big deal is I don't think he knew Ocean Island
was occupied and if he did, I don't think he knew it is a PBY base.  Those Cat's have provided me with tons of info on ships moving around
the area.  Losing Ocean Island would put a dent in my early warning system and it wouldn't be very tough to take down.

I'm going all in to save Brisbane.  The next update should contain a lot of actions that determine whether this will be a long war or an Auto-Victory.
The AAR is up to date so I have no idea what will happen.

[Excroat3]

KzyBP, do you know if you can continue to play after an auto-victory?  Or is it impossible?

[KyzBP]

KzyBP, do you know if you can continue to play after an auto-victory?  Or is it impossible?

First, Welcome!

I think it gives you the option to continue.  If that situation arises then Geek and I will decide if we keep going.  Win or lose this was a lot of fun.

[JasonPratt]

When the question was brought up in Geek's thread, he confirmed that the players can continue after an auto-victory. (That seems a topically neutral way of putting it. ;) )

[jomni]

I'd like to see the score and the "butcher's bill"

[KyzBP]

I'd like to see the score and the "butcher's bill"

I'll try to post it tomorrow.  I will say that all the gains I was making in the air war courtesy of AM have been erased by the frightful kill ratio over Oz.  The Australian and ABDA pilots are horrifyingly inexperienced and are getting chopped to pieces.

[FarAway Sooner]

I've never played the game (obviously), but from reading this thread, it sounds like the only real way for the Allies to get better there is to get some practice against "B Team" players for the other side.  If you try rising up against far more experienced pilots, you won't survive.  Period.

At the same time, you do everything you can to attrit the Kido Butai pilots of his main carrier force.  I'm not sure the best attrition option--maybe just group your fighters together into big groups and hope they can jump an enemy attack force?  Or bomb the air bases, but you need air superiority to do that...  I begin to see how the whole South Pacific conflict shaped up!

One interesting note on Fire in the Sky:  Bergerud's conclusion is that the single most important weapon system for the Air War in the South Pacific was...  the tractor.  American's ability to build and maintain new airfields allowed them to isolate and annihilate Japanese air bases throughout the theater.  There were a number of factors behind that ability, but the availability of construction vehicles was a huge boon for the Americans as they worked to establish and upgrade air bases quickly.

[jomni]

I've never played the game (obviously), but from reading this thread, it sounds like the only real way for the Allies to get better there is to get some practice against "B Team" players for the other side.  If you try rising up against far more experienced pilots, you won't survive.  Period.

At the same time, you do everything you can to attrit the Kido Butai pilots of his main carrier force.  I'm not sure the best attrition option--maybe just group your fighters together into big groups and hope they can jump an enemy attack force?  Or bomb the air bases, but you need air superiority to do that...  I begin to see how the whole South Pacific conflict shaped up!

One interesting note on Fire in the Sky:  Bergerud's conclusion is that the single most important weapon system for the Air War in the South Pacific was...  the tractor.  American's ability to build and maintain new airfields allowed them to isolate and annihilate Japanese air bases throughout the theater.  There were a number of factors behind that ability, but the availability of construction vehicles was a huge boon for the Americans as they worked to establish and upgrade air bases quickly.

Well, Geek's KB is located in some isolated island chain in the south pacific, so the Allies won't be able
to build airfields and reinforce air units there as planes have short legs and sea transport is vulnerable.

[FarAway Sooner]

Yeah.  It does give you an even better appreciation for why Midway was such a disastrous setback for the IJN.

[JasonPratt]

"Its a plan, and if i had one id chew a cigar" -- Geekamoto

He's looking for a cigar now. Beware. Be very aware.