With Marvel Spidey going home, Sony goes for Venom and Babes

[JasonPratt]

The big news for Marvel films this week is that Sony looks to be deciding on a spin-off strategy for its rights to the Spider-man characters: rather than making Spider-Man movies, it'll make movies about Spider-characters (that it still owns exclusive production rights for). There's some speculation about whether these plots will even stay in the "Amazing" continuity (the duology so far with Andrew Garfield as Parker)!

Personally I very much doubt this. I think it's more likely they'll create a sort of pocket universe that nods as much as possible to the "Amazing" continuity (and if that's none, then fine), and as little as possible to the Marvel Cinematic Universe (and if that's none, then great!) The strategy here would be to farm up properties that it can then rent back to Marvel Studios if they become hits enough in their own rights for the MCU to want to incorporate them.

Not too surprisingly, the first film announced out of the gate with a late Q3 or Q4ish 2018 release, is a Venom film. Sony could even be trying a sneaky attempt at setting up a Venom prequel very soon now with their release of Life which features an alien threat that, from its information, acts a lot like the symbiote! -- or they might find a way to tie it back conveniently. (I doubt the film was originally planned as such.)

A little more surprisingly to me, since I hadn't heard of it, but which has evidently been on Sony's original Spiderverse plans for a while -- and originally was meant to be released this year -- is a Sable/Black Cat team up. A director should be announced soon, and filming is slated to start by the end of the year.

While Venom is conventionally smart (for brand recognition if nothing else, but also possibly to start mining other genres from the Marvel collection, horror in this case), I think this is even smarter. A pair of fun bad-girl anti-heroes, with Sable as the more serious one and BC as the HarleyQuinnish one, also color-themed for convenience (and race fluid in presentation since being white doesn't make any difference to their story/characters) could verrrrrryyy feasibly become the core characters of a side-continuity: Sable's the leader of her own mercenary team, and while her supporting characters are highly forgettable (I'm going to bet most readers didn't even know about Sable!), they would be reasonable choices for going up against more villainous Spiderfoes: and Parker's rogue gallery is arguably the best in all the comics. (Yes even better than Batman's.) Since Sable and Cat are mostly about style and skill and are otherwise normal humans (a minor superpower for the BC aside which could also be fun: probability twists leading to bad luck for her enemies, good luck for her), you could also get a theme going that the ingenuity and skill of regular people can defeat drastically bad threats if they can team up and work together. This idea is potential gold; I wish I was writing it! As it is, Sony's past track record in recent years does not inspire confidence. But the writer will be creator of the new girl Wolverine (whose character is doing very well both in comics canon and in the final Wolvie film just released), who also wrote Thor 2 (which I thought was really quite good despite a few weaknesses here and there, like a general vaguery in the use of Malekith the Dark Elf -- the guy can certainly write frenemy team-up scripts!) This inspires some confidence.

How they play this will decide to what extent they (pretend like they) are staying in the "Amazing" continuity, too, since Felicia Hardy (the Black Cat) was already introduced in Amazing 2, albeit doing exactly nothing like her character. This cynical in-name-only cameo-setup was one of the smaller bitter tastes to that film, but theoretically Sony could segue onward per their original plan -- I doubt they'll keep the continuity, though, just some nods to it. (Like the MCU's thematic nods to the first Hulk film by Ang Lee.)

[JasonPratt]

Well, my theory was partly shot out of the water: Sony has now confirmed that Andrew Garfield will be returning as Spider-man in the Venom and Sable/Cat films. And an Amazing 3.

Garfield is still contracturally obligated for 6 Sony Spiderfilms; and Sony is still obligated to pay or play him for six movies. So since he has picked up accolades for Heartbreak Ridge, and since the MCU has rehabilitated the character among fans... well, evidently there will be two full Spider-continuities now. Great moogly googly...  ::) One continuity with a continuation of Garfield's character, totally owned by Sony with no profit sharing from Marvel (because Sony already bought the rights -- though naturally they have to keep exercising the rights or the rights revert to Marvel, which I'm sure is also an issue here). And one continuity with a continuation of Holland's character.

I suspect that Sony will insist that there be no more Spider-specific MCU films after the sequel to Homecoming, but Sony seems to be fast-tracking a parallel shoot for both Venom and Amazing3 to release more or less in tandem in Q4'18. (With the Sable/Cat film in post-production by then.) Also supposedly a CGI Spider-film in 2018. Which is insane. (The CGI film will be the Miles Morales Spider-man, apparently.)

Now. This is all based on what is supposed to be a leaked court document involving the film studios hashing out permission rights. And while the first news of it slightly preceded April 1, let's be honest the timing is suspicious. I mean, there's a rumor floating around that Disney bought Sony, too, which dates to the same time, and that has to be a joke.

If it's an April Fool's joke, it's pretty genius because it sounds plausible for the way Sony has been thinking since Amazing1. And it's based on verified facts (Morales animated film; Venom and Sable/Cat films.)

Also, it's still going by April 4...

[Sir Slash]

Maybe the two versions of Spidey will have a "Spiderman vs Spiderman" movie. Where they both beat the shit out of Tony Stark. I'd pay to see that.  :clap:

[mirth]

Having watched the Garfield Spiderman movies multiple times with the kids, I can say they aren't great movies but Andrew Garfield was a decent Peter Parker/Spiderman.

[mirth]

Maybe the two versions of Spidey will have a "Spiderman vs Spiderman" movie. Where they both beat the shit out of Tony Stark. I'd pay to see that.  :clap:

+1 They could make an entire movie of Stark getting beat to shit by different Avengers and I'd line up to see it.

[undercovergeek]

Not really a follower of the comics - but is he meant to be an asshole? Or is it something mr Downey junior has brought to the role

[JasonPratt]

He's variable in the comics, but trends toward that, yep. RDJ's portrayal is well within bounds. Actually, many fans were very upset during the comic-canon "Civil War" story, that Stark had been character assassinated into being even more that way than usual in order to make the plot work! His portrayal and rationales are more sympathetic in the MCU "Civil War" story. The writers worked hard to try to balance both sides as having legitimate points and legitimate faults.

(Though admittedly there's still some characterization fudging in the film, in order to make the plot work.)

[Sir Slash]

But he's probably the best fit for an actor in that role. If I ever saw a movie where R. Downey played a loving, working-class husband who coaches Little League and adopts out abandoned puppies in his spare time..... I'd probably bite my bottom lip off trying to wake up. I wonder if Downing is Stark or is Stark Downing? Either way I'm in. At least he does the comedy-part well enough.  :clap:

[mirth]

I like Downey the actor. He does a good job capturing Stark's combination of charm, ego and assholeness. And the comic book character can be every bit as much a dick. So, I'm happy to see him get a beat down.

[JasonPratt]

Back to the main topic: now I'm hearing that one of the executive producers for the MCU as a whole, held a press conference or something yesterday where he talked about Marvel and Sony reaching an agreement where

(1) there will not be multiple Spider-man films running concurrently;

(2) Marvel will do three Spider-films, not counting crossover appearances, with Parker as a sophomore (Homecoming), Junior, and Senior for graduation -- which will be carefully finessed so as to fit clearly enough into the ongoing MCU timeline which (with a few exceptions) tracks with real time. This will be a balancing act for sure!

The upshot is that this, evidently, scotches Amazing3 as a film until at least after the Parker High School trilogy films. It would not, however, prevent Garfield from returning as Spider-man in some capacity during the Venom and Sable/Cat films (or more than that, so long as he isn't headlining a film). I suppose the strategy here is to build up to Amazing 3, maybe by first establishing a Sinister Six group (possibly compiling them for their own film first and the treat that as a two-parter with Amazing3 concluding). If Sony goes that route, Marvel may just give them room for a reciprocal time out (allowing for cameos the same way round for Holland's Spider-man) to finish their big project -- and then from there the two can work out who gets custody of the boy next. ;)

Note that this strategy would roughly fit Sony's original plans for their own Spider-verse continuity.

[JasonPratt]

Having watched the Garfield Spiderman movies multiple times with the kids, I can say they aren't great movies but Andrew Garfield was a decent Peter Parker/Spiderman.

Agreed. The problems weren't with Garfield per se.

[jamus34]

Having watched the Garfield Spiderman movies multiple times with the kids, I can say they aren't great movies but Andrew Garfield was a decent Peter Parker/Spiderman.

Agreed. The problems weren't with Garfield per se.

There were a lot of issues with the two movies but I just didn't care for Garfield in them.

[Staggerwing]

Neither Garfield or Maguire are/were snarky enough to measure up to what I remember from reading the comics back in the 70's. From what I saw in Civil War the new kid seems to have a bit more wiseass in him.

[JasonPratt]

Be aware that due to the influx of Sony / MCU Spider-news recently, a bunch of videos on Youtube going back years have been re-... um... attentioned? YT doesn't clarify dates when you see things on a sidebar, and since their current plan sounds a lot like their previous plan the internet will be throwing back videos (presumably also articles) talking about the previous plans, too.