This time....B-17:Queen of the Skies

[Jack Nastyface]

IMHO, one of the compelling aspects of gaming has always been narrative.  For me, that narrative becomes more "personal" with the game scale.  So when I play large scale games (operational, campaign or large battle), the narrative is typically about key moments.  I may like to win and hate to lose, but I seldom "feel" anything when I lose 1000+ men represented by the single counter of the 130 Rgt of the Panzer Lehr.  When I play squad, tactical or skirmish level games, the narrative often focuses on specific units - the M4 with nine lives, the squad weapon that held on, etc.  And when I play individual combat games, the narrative becomes very personal - almost RPG like.  I really WANT my Gunslinger / Melee fighter / WWI pilot to survive because "he is me" in some kind of vicarious way.  B-17 is one of the few games that got me to "care" about the fate of ten fictitious characters written on a piece of paper.  "I" could be (or could have been) anyone one of "them".  And I think the very thing that many gamers criticize about B-17 - the randomness, the lack of control - is the very thing that makes the game so compelling.  You are along for the ride; sometimes it's a milk run; sometimes it ain't and shit happens and for no good reason.

Most of us have wonderful lives where we feel in control of our own fate, and it's uncomfortable to think of situations where that may not be so.  B-17 was one of first games to show me that reality.  I think that's probably why it's still played by so many, today.

[Barthheart]

IMHO, one of the compelling aspects of gaming has always been narrative.  For me, that narrative becomes more "personal" with the game scale.  So when I play large scale games (operational, campaign or large battle), the narrative is typically about key moments.  I may like to win and hate to lose, but I seldom "feel" anything when I lose 1000+ men represented by the single counter of the 130 Rgt of the Panzer Lehr.  When I play squad, tactical or skirmish level games, the narrative often focuses on specific units - the M4 with nine lives, the squad weapon that held on, etc.  And when I play individual combat games, the narrative becomes very personal - almost RPG like.  I really WANT my Gunslinger / Melee fighter / WWI pilot to survive because "he is me" in some kind of vicarious way.  B-17 is one of the few games that got me to "care" about the fate of ten fictitious characters written on a piece of paper.  "I" could be (or could have been) anyone one of "them".  And I think the very thing that many gamers criticize about B-17 - the randomness, the lack of control - is the very thing that makes the game so compelling.  You are along for the ride; sometimes it's a milk run; sometimes it ain't and shit happens and for no good reason.

Most of us have wonderful lives where we feel in control of our own fate, and it's uncomfortable to think of situations where that may not be so.  B-17 was one of first games to show me that reality.  I think that's probably why it's still played by so many, today.

O0
This is why I've had my copy for 30+ years.

[JudgeDredd]

Maybe I just wasn't ready for the huge amount of die rolling.

It's still on the table and I'll keep it going for the time being.

[DennisS]

mmmm

I don't know that I want to continue with this really. It seems to have got complicated - or just cumbersome.

My B-17 was hit twice in the oxygen tank in the tail meaning I had to drop to 10,000ft out of formation. I did the bomb run and then on the turn around, I was attacked by 3 waves of fighters. That's 9 waves (3 waves x 3 attacks because of out of formation). Then all the hits that go with the attacks!!

The first wave was 4 aircraft +1 Me109 (for out of formation). I was hit once in the pilot compartment on the instrument panel. I then roll again (twice) to determine the new attack positions for all 5 aircraft (a miss from these does not mean an automatic removal of them due to the out of formation)....

I then have to go through all that again - for the other two waves...and not forgetting I have to also check for low flak each time and all the hits that come from that!

I'm knackered looking up tables and rolling die!!

Being knocked out of formation will take a ten minute mission, and turn it into two hours of dice rolling insanity....the entire time, watching your beloved bomber slowly get shot to pieces. I have enjoyed this experience dozens, if not hundreds of times. It's always an oh SH!T moment, when you oxygen system gets put out of action.

[DennisS]

Well. I broke out B-17: Queen of the Skies a little while ago...it's been awhile.

But, I have played this game so many times, I didn't need any kind of refresher.

Second mission, to Meaulte, good fighter cover, no flak, bomb run ON TARGET.

...and I roll boxcars. Twelve. All you gamers that play this game know what this means! "88% + 2D6" for bomb damage. I got up, went downstairs, and told the missus..."I rolled boxcars." She looked at me like I was nuts, I do this a lot...comments without context.

...aaaand I go upstairs, shake the doo-doo out of the two dice, and roll .... another 12. First. Time. Ever. 100% on target.

Why would something this stupid mean so much?

[bbmike]

My minis and battle board finally arrived! Haven't opened the box yet though. 

[acctingman]

Well. I broke out B-17: Queen of the Skies a little while ago...it's been awhile.

But, I have played this game so many times, I didn't need any kind of refresher.

Second mission, to Meaulte, good fighter cover, no flak, bomb run ON TARGET.

...and I roll boxcars. Twelve. All you gamers that play this game know what this means! "88% + 2D6" for bomb damage. I got up, went downstairs, and told the missus..."I rolled boxcars." She looked at me like I was nuts, I do this a lot...comments without context.

...aaaand I go upstairs, shake the doo-doo out of the two dice, and roll .... another 12. First. Time. Ever. 100% on target.

Why would something this stupid mean so much?

I've never played this game, but I get this!

Got a good chuckle, thanks!  O0

[JudgeDredd]

My minis and battle board finally arrived! Haven't opened the box yet though. 

For B17:QotS? Where did you get those from?

[Barthheart]

He's mixing this up with DVG B17 Leader.

[bbmike]

He's mixing this up with DVG B17 Leader.

Oops.  :-[

[mirth]

At least you got the B-17 part right :P

[ArizonaTank]

I've never played B-17 but was always interested in it. 

Legion games has a pre-order up for it's version of B-17 QotS, Target For Today.  New game, new components, and adds B-24. 

http://www.legionwargames.com/legion_pre-order.php#TFT

Not sure when it's being printed, but they passed their goal and it's getting done at some point.

Target for Today is due to ship June 7th.

http://legionwargames.com/
 
I have the original game, and frankly fall into the camp that thinks the original game had too few decision points for the player.  But I have bought into the advertising, and am awaiting my copy of TFT.   

The designer has put a PDF version of the rules out: http://www.stevenkdixon.com/TFT_rules_print.pdf

Here is the description on Board Game Geek:

TARGET FOR TODAY is an advanced update of Glen Frank's classic game B17, QUEEN OF THE SKIES. Some familiarity with that game is assumed, but "TARGET FOR TODAY" is a completely new game -you do not need to own B-17, QUEEN OF THE SKIES to play it. New tables are included and the rules are organized according to the sequence of play in any typical mission. TARGET FOR TODAY is designed so that each individual mission is fast and easy to play. The campaign game that comprises your tour of duty offers the player a game that is rich in detail, making the game as realistic as possible while still remaining playable.

In the tradition of B-17 Queen of the Skies, and following in the foot steps of B-29 Superfortress, comes a new solitaire game from Steve Dixon. Bob Best and Shawn Rife Steve Dixon. Tentatively titled "Bombs Away!", it has been renamed "Target for Today!". Fly a single mission, a single campaign or fly the entire air campaign from 1942 to 1945 with the 8th or 15th Air Force, piloting either a B-17F, B17G, B24D, B24J and for those so inclined, the YB-40.

The target list will be greatly expanded for the 8th and 15th Air Forces. Enemy planes we plan to provide are the Me-109, Fw-190, Ju-88, Me-110, Me-210, Me-410, He-162, Me-163, Me-262, and Ta-152.

[JudgeDredd]

^ Nice  O0

[acctingman]

Question......

Were B-29's deployed in Europe?

[JudgeDredd]

I've never come across any material that mentioned them. But I've obviously not exhausted the library for the era.

This source suggests they were not
https://www.quora.com/Why-werent-B29s-used-instead-of-B17s-in-European-raids