Midway remake out in cinemas NOV 8

[airboy]

And on a very horrifying note, I watched "Flyboys" yesterday.  We got the film from my father-in-law after he died.  He was a huge WW1 aviation buff.  Wife saw it with her Dad and I wanted to give it a chance before discarding it.

What a wretched film.  Painful.  Historically batshit in places.  My favorite stupidity was the lead seeing a buddy shot down and surviving the crash - in no mans land between the main trench lines.  So lead actor lands his plane - at the front lines, goes into no mans land, cuts buddies hand off with an entrenching tool to free him from the wreckage, and then flies the his parked plane back to base.  I also have doubts that  Nieuport 17 could have made some of the dives it did in the movie without tearing the wings off - but I'm no aviation expert so maybe that could happen.

[SirAndrewD]

I took a lot of history classes in College for fun.  Did not major in it because it did not look like a lucrative career path. 

I  could not imagine teaching history to junior high students or modern high school students.  I was frustrated in High School with some of the faculty's lack of knowledge.  I would read the book the first two weeks of class and then read whatever I wanted to for the rest of the year.  Just thinking about it is painful.

But on a happy note I married an Ancient History major and we have traveled lots of places and seen almost innumerable museums.  When I would go to academic conferences we would visit the museums and historical sights in the area - while everyone else hung around the hotel.  We are taking a two week WW1 tour (with a focus on the American entry) next fall.  The only place she did not want to visit with me was Norfolk, VA.

No, it's not lucrative.  That's why I'm partially not in it anymore.  I also strongly and highly disagree with the state mandate to teach dates over substance.

You're right.  Most History teachers have an EXTREME lack of knowledge.   I had two History degrees.  This did NOT qualify me to teach history.  I had to get outside certifications and I was secondary and subordinate to people with Education degrees that honestly knew nothing about the subject they taught

I got out of it as I've said.  Being a historian means nothing in teaching history. 

[JudgeDredd]

Jason, if you wan to see Bill Halsey during the Guadalcanal campaign, Jimmy Cagney did that in the Gallant Hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lINrEHpLrcE

THAT was the film I was trying to remember. As soon as I seen Halsey, I thought "James Cagney played him in something"...thank you.

[Gusington]

Forgot all about Phi Alpha Theta - I was a member during undergrad.

[Sir Slash]

"Flyboys" also had a scene with German crewmen running along the top of a Zeppelin.  :DD

[JasonPratt]

I also have doubts that  Nieuport 17 could have made some of the dives it did in the movie without tearing the wings off - but I'm no aviation expert so maybe that could happen.

I have no doubts at all that the Eindecker stolen from a Turkish base by Steve Trevor in the recent Wonder Woman film, could not even possibly have made some of its daring acrobatics during the escape (relatively tame though those were). The only thing historically plausible it did was crash into the ocean after a steep dive.

What's weirder is that there were other craft he could have stolen, more up to date with the end of WW1. Someone in production had a boner for showing an Eindecker in action while also being totally insane and/or ignorant about its capabilities. 

(Maybe there were CGI assets already made for an abandoned Eindecker project and someone said, hey, we already paid the money for development, let's use that asset somewhere...!)

[SirAndrewD]

There's a reason I've never seen Flyboys.

Always glad to keep seeing that reason confirmed over and over.

[JasonPratt]

Overall I enjoyed Midway more and/or rolled my eyes less, than Flyboys. But I don't recall hating the latter.

[SirAndrewD]

I can't abide a movie that claims to be a historical film and then deliberately gets historical elements wrong.  Flyboys lost me the instant I saw they were making every German aircraft a Red Fokker Dr.I knowing full well that was historically incorrect.  May seem like a nitpick to many, but that's like nails on a chalk board to me.

[airboy]

"Flyboys" also had a scene with German crewmen running along the top of a Zeppelin.  :DD

He was running like hell while the sections of the Zeppelin were going "boom", "boom," "boom" in succession.  That scene reminded me of Iraq 1 with the Iraqi driving/running over the bridge just before the USAF blew it up.  But that scene was not even close to the dumbest scenes I saw. 

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

Midway was "okay".  Too focussed on the personal story of Dick Best and manly men clenching their jaws.  Also tried to cram too much in and a lot of details were lost in the process.  I wish they'd focussed more on the battle and shown more of the big picture.  They glossed over the importance of each side's recon planes and never really explained how the constant air attacks kept the Japanese from being able to launch planes.  They also didn't really show how the Japanese CAP slowly got disorganized and pulled out of position as the battle progressed.  The Zero attacks against the TBDs were over in a few seconds rather than the long stern chase that was actually the case.  They didn't do a good enough job of showing how well coordinated Japanese air groups were vs the disorganized US groups.   They also should have given a bit more focus to the individual carriers, their commanders, and the carrier air groups for both sides.  The attacks on Yorktown were barely covered nor were the differences in damage control between the two navies touched upon at all.

Still, it's better than what I was expecting.

[JudgeDredd]

Mark Kermode didn't like it

[besilarius]

The director of the National Word War II Museum reviews the movie.

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/computer-degenerated-review-midway

He comes across like a jazz purist reviewing Little Richard.

[Sir Slash]

I think he HATES pixels.  :timeout:

[airboy]

We saw it tonight and thoroughly enjoyed it (me) and did not get bored and it was ok (my wife).

I'll compare/contrast this movie versus the 1976 Midway.

1976 - Good points:
Focuses on the search for carriers.  Much more tightly focused on the battle of Midway itself.  Battle was a focus more on finding the carriers, then the various flight waves against the Jap carriers.  Much of the combat footage was from the battle itself or from WW2.

2019 - Good Points - If you have your US Navy Pacific WW2 History down pat - the story is very easy to follow.  It goes from Pearl, to the Marshalls raid, to Coral Sea, to Midway.  It shows how a small number of US ships and naval aviation were being ground down on endless deployments against tremendous odds.  The utter desperation and the willingness of most US aviators to pit themselves against horrible odds with inferior planes was very well done.  The importance of the attack of the Nautilus and how the destroyer sent to sink her led the dive bombers to the Japanese carriers was well done.  Finally, the number of near misses and how the carriers evaded bombs and torpedoes was really well done.  The CGI effect of dive bombers making their runs was amazing.

1976 Bad Points - The whole love story and Charlton Hesston trying to spring the interned female for his son.

2019 Bad Points - Too many largely irrelevant side stories.  If you don't really know WW2 Pacific History you can probably get lost in the movie. No footage of Japanese air attacks on the Yorktown.  Dick Best actor had a grating and fake New Jersey accent (he is a Brit).  Real New Jersey accents can be irritating but a poor fake is much worse.

Overall, I really enjoyed it and will probably buy a copy when I can pick it up inexpensively.