Quote from: undercovergeek on April 23, 2024, 04:57:53 PMAnd then we're right back to female James Bond
Quote from: al_infierno on April 23, 2024, 05:13:15 PMQuote from: undercovergeek on April 23, 2024, 04:57:53 PMNobody I've read, spoken to or experienced has ever said women are not welcome in the hobby
That's like saying "nobody I've ever spoken to has personally encountered racism" as a counter-argument to racism. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are tons of examples of people being excluded from all kinds of nerd hobbies (yes, even Warhammer) if you care to look for it.Quotewho insist that exclusively male toys and fiction are made to include females
And here's precisely where you're wrong. Warhammer is not an "exclusively male toy and fiction." All "guy media" has always appealed to women as much as it has to men. That's precisely why there's been a push in recent years for this type of media to be more inclusive and representative of its audience, and people like you don't seem to see past your own personal experiences with the hobby.QuoteI'm in a very privileged place - I don't fucking care
This applies so much more than you realize. Yes, I know you're privileged and don't care. That's what this whole argument has been about!QuoteWhy isn't the dictator in your game a woman?
Why does the dictator in my game need to be a woman? If you want to talk about female representation in my game, we can talk about it. There are multiple major female characters in the game, including the PC's wife and daughters. The in-game society expects them to fit traditional female roles, because the world is intentionally regressive, but they still have agency in the story and can affect the outcomes of major events depending on their choices. Also, while she's a minor character, there's an explicitly more "feminist" character in Arletta Menator, who embodies the "badass action chick" trope as a contrast to the other women in the game.
The Great Leader easily could have been a woman, and it wouldn't have changed much, but having him be a man is IMO a better fit for the assumptions that go along with the "eastern european dictator" archetype.
Quote from: undercovergeek on April 23, 2024, 04:57:53 PMNobody I've read, spoken to or experienced has ever said women are not welcome in the hobby
Quotewho insist that exclusively male toys and fiction are made to include females
QuoteI'm in a very privileged place - I don't fucking care
QuoteWhy isn't the dictator in your game a woman?
Quote from: undercovergeek on April 23, 2024, 04:19:22 PMReally?
Tell me what's wrong with people choosing anything they choose to enjoy that doesn't include any minority or under represented group. Can they not? Should they not?
They didn't choose a game that wasn't specifically diverse - they chose a game that represented their interests up to and including 40 years ago when no one even cared or knew what diversity and woke meant and maybe up to a year ago still didn't but now enough people are willing to try and cancel you for not things must change
There are people of all colours and genders in warhammer - I think maybe what people like you and others don't understand is it is a game that primarily harkens back to or even begins when you're a child when no one gives a shit about diversity and inclusivity and it's just a game - a game now been used by adults to push their agendas
Quotegame that primarily harkens back to or even begins when you're a child when no one gives a shit about diversity and inclusivity and it's just a game
Quote from: al_infierno on April 23, 2024, 03:47:44 PMQuote from: undercovergeek on April 23, 2024, 03:36:02 PMQuote from: al_infierno on April 23, 2024, 12:07:46 PMQuote from: undercovergeek on April 23, 2024, 03:15:59 AMI think to a certain degree it has nothing to do with female space marines and more to do with meeting up with your friends at a club or a garage and getting away from all the shit that compulsory diversity and woke-ism brings in an average working day and all the other crap that comes with real life because you've come to play soldiers to get away from all that and here in the microcosm of 40k it didn't exist and it was you and your army and your friends and now it's invading that bit of peace and quiet you had from the world
Don't get me wrong - I'm neither for or against - you do you over there and I'll do me over here
Like the vegans of this world - you can do that and I'll eat meat but don't be a dick and stand outside my restaurant calling me a flesh eating murderer
As I get older I realise the best most peaceful form of inclusivity is not to include any fucker at all
What doesn't make sense about this is why diversity and inclusion is this self-evidently abhorrent thing that must be "kept out" of a gaming space. Is play time really ruined because GW decided one faction is slightly more diverse? Or if the shoe was on the other foot, would anyone be here crying the blues because a faction became less diverse? I doubt it.
At what point does the topic of diversity go from "it's OK to accept women and queer people in our hobby" to "oh my god, this is FORCED WOKE ISM and play time is ruined!" Because to me it seems entirely arbitrary.
People are still entitled to make a choice - play games that include diversity, play games that don't
But the people that chose to play a game that didn't which is well within their right have now had the rules changed, lore changed and game changed to make sure the game without diversity they chose is now been made to include it because some people think they shouldn't get to a play a game that doesn't include it
"I specifically chose this game because it's not diverse, and the wokies ruined it by adding women" is a VERY bizarre way to frame your position on this issue. It's pretty much just dancing around the explicit argument that Warhammer SHOULD only be men (or straight or white or what have you) and any deviation from that is "against lore."
Like, if that's your take on the whole thing fair enough I guess, but you understand how that's not exactly beating the "sexist neckbeard" allegations, right?