Question for Jomni, PanzersEast or other Flight Simmers

Started by Tuna, August 22, 2013, 09:06:59 AM

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Tuna

Been trying to learn ILS landings for the big jet's (cause I can't land them otherwise).. Watched a few good YouTube tutorials, but now I'm stumped.

Everything seems to be going well.. till I get to the Final Approach.. I change to NAV, I'm hitting the cone.. I hit APP.. it keeps the heading correct, but doesn't seem to go into the Glide Path.. so I just fly straight over the runway?

At first I thought maybe I had to descend to a lower altitude to get the glide slope to kick in, but that didn't work either..

JudgeDredd

Call me daft, but I thought you still had to fly in manually with ILS...no?

I thought the ILS was just a "guide" and you flew in - not an autopilot thing
Alba gu' brath

Tuna

I believe you can set it up, so that it brings you in and you takeover at the last second before touch down..

I can land the small planes no problem on my own.. even the B-17 I bought (that bird flies very nice)..

But the Passenger Jet's no- way!

Tuna

LOL, maybe I need to get my CDS fixed and go back to my Warthog!

JudgeDredd

Well thinking about your question and what you mentioned, I actually have never flown jets in MSFS - so they may well have some autopilot ILS.

I only really fly Cessnas and I'm pretty sure those wee birds are all manual and the ILS is a guide.

When my company takes off in Air Hauler (and I have to fly the damn thing to make money!) then I will progress to jets - eventually
Alba gu' brath

PanzersEast

Which A/C are you flying?  You need to be within a certain altitude (depends on airport) to intercept the localizer and if you are above the capture altitude you will not capture it and instead fly over.   

You should capture the localizer first, meaning that before the intercept point I engage the APP (at the correct altitude and GPS is set to NAV at that point, before intercept)... once you have made the intercept and are on short final the A/P will will capture the glideslope and you will begin your decent onto the runway.  If it is not an auto-land, usually around 200ft you will need to disengage the A/P and manual from there.

If I fly Boeing I always disengage the Auto-throttle on final....

PE

Tuna

737... I knew I would have to disengage the Auto Throttle, but I didn't get to that point..

I lowered myself to 2500.. do I have to go a lot lower?

WallysWorld

#7
I have noticed that some ILS' will not have the altitude part of the glide slope turned on until you get nearer the airport. In other words, your aircraft will intercept the ILS direction a fair distance from the airport and fly in the correct direction, but the altitude marker or glide slope will not activate until you get closer to the airport.

I sometimes have to turn off and then back on the APP button once the glide slide marker comes on otherwise the aircraft will not follow the glide slope down.

Tuna, ATC should tell you what altitude you should capture the ILS.
"I used to be with it, but then they changed what *it* was. Now what I'm with isn't *it* and what *it* is seems weird and scary to me." - Abraham Simpson

Tuna

Yeah, no, I just keep flying strait over the airport at the same altitude as when I turn on APP...

Is there a switch for 'landing' or something that I'm missing?

Again.. I'm not looking to auto.. will take over at the last minute, but surprised the glide slope doesn't engage, since I see it happen on videos..

PanzersEast

#9
Quote from: Tuna on August 22, 2013, 10:51:52 AM
737... I knew I would have to disengage the Auto Throttle, but I didn't get to that point..

I lowered myself to 2500.. do I have to go a lot lower?

That is a good rule of thumb, however usually the ATC will vector to the localizer if flying IFR.  Airports are different and you can search for the approach plates to get the correct altitude.... but 2500 should work.  Also if you are not vectored in by ATC make sure you are approaching at the correct distance.

Just a basic checklist

before approaching/intercepting the localizer:

1. GPS/NAV is set to NAV
2. ILS Freq set in NAV 1
3. CRS is configured correctly if needed
3. APP is engaged
4. At Correct altitude
5. Slow to around 200 ~ 180 knots
6. Flap configuration is set correctly

Once the A/C captures the localizer and turns toward the runway the A/P will capture the glideslope and direct you onto the runway.


PE

JudgeDredd

Alba gu' brath

Tuna

Quote from: PanzersEast on August 22, 2013, 11:02:54 AM
Quote from: Tuna on August 22, 2013, 10:51:52 AM
737... I knew I would have to disengage the Auto Throttle, but I didn't get to that point..

I lowered myself to 2500.. do I have to go a lot lower?

That is a good rule of thumb, however usually the ATC will vector to the localizer if flying IFR.  Airports are different and you can search for the approach plates to get the correct altitude.... but 2500 should work.  Also if you are not vectored in by ATC make sure you are approaching at the correct distance.

Just a basic checklist

before approaching/intercepting the localizer:

1. GPS/NAV is set to NAV
2. ILS Freq set in NAV 1
3. CRS is configured correctly if needed
3. APP is engaged
4. At Correct altitude
5. Slow to around 200 ~ 180 knots
6. Flap configuration is set correctly


PE

Hmm.. I didn't contact the ATC, I just got the frequency and heading off the map.. maybe that's the issue?
What is CRS?
LOL.. maybe I'll have to get you on TS some night so you can 'teach' me.. does MS Flight Simulator allow MP in the same plane?

PanzersEast

#12
Quote from: Tuna on August 22, 2013, 11:06:39 AM
Quote from: PanzersEast on August 22, 2013, 11:02:54 AM
Quote from: Tuna on August 22, 2013, 10:51:52 AM
737... I knew I would have to disengage the Auto Throttle, but I didn't get to that point..

I lowered myself to 2500.. do I have to go a lot lower?

That is a good rule of thumb, however usually the ATC will vector to the localizer if flying IFR.  Airports are different and you can search for the approach plates to get the correct altitude.... but 2500 should work.  Also if you are not vectored in by ATC make sure you are approaching at the correct distance.

Just a basic checklist

before approaching/intercepting the localizer:

1. GPS/NAV is set to NAV
2. ILS Freq set in NAV 1
3. CRS is configured correctly if needed
3. APP is engaged
4. At Correct altitude
5. Slow to around 200 ~ 180 knots
6. Flap configuration is set correctly


PE

Hmm.. I didn't contact the ATC, I just got the frequency and heading off the map.. maybe that's the issue?
What is CRS?
LOL.. maybe I'll have to get you on TS some night so you can 'teach' me.. does MS Flight Simulator allow MP in the same plane?

CRS is the ILS course heading of the runway.  This will need to be configured correctly in order to land the plane.  ILS HDG



As you can see above if we are landing on RWY 18 we will have a ILS Freq of 108.30 and CRS (ILS Heading) of 179.

If you are flying the 737 you will need to enter the Freq in the Radio shack into NAV 1 and enter the ILS Course if 179 for (example) into the  heading as shown below.





Tuna

Yep, did that.. Do you think I Have to contact ATC?

I hear the morse code when I get in range.. and it does take and keep the heading once I hit APP.. it just doesn't descend!

PanzersEast

#14
Quote from: Tuna on August 22, 2013, 11:18:12 AM
Yep, did that.. Do you think I Have to contact ATC?

I hear the morse code when I get in range.. and it does take and keep the heading once I hit APP.. it just doesn't descend!

hmmm, you do not have to contact ATC in FSX to land per se. It sounds like you are flying too high or the distance is too close.  Try approaching at 20 miles out and an altitude of 2000 ~ 2500.  It sounds like your configuration are set, just make sure the localizer is captured and that before the intercept you have GPS off and that the APP is engaged.

PE