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October 14 - 16, 1918, The Fighting Irish at Landres-et-St Georges
The “Fighting 69th”, “Wild Bill” Donovan and Father Duffy.

In December, 1862, the New York 69th “Fighting Irish” (also called “The Fighting 69th) regiment lost half of its troops, trying to storm Marye's Heights at Fredericksburg, In October, 1918, the regiment renamed the 165th Infantry, lost nearly as many troops trying to take German fortified positions on the Hindenburg Line, at Landres-et-Saint Georges. Both attacks ultimately failed, but spoke to the bravery and proud history of the regiment.

Landres-et-St. Georges

The small French town of Landres-et-St. Georges, sat at the edge of Kreimhilde Stellung, the main defensive belt of the Hindenburg Line.  On October 14th, the AEF launched an offensive to break through the Hindenburg line. The 165th Infantry, the “Fighting Irish”, part of the 42nd Division, had one sector. The Kreimhilde stellung included thick bands of barbed wire, strong points, bunkers and well defined fire zones.

AEF Offensive to pierce the Hindenburg Line, 14 – 16 October. In most locations the Germans stopped the Americans

US Intelligence Map of the Kreimhilde Stellung at Landres-et-St Georges. 165th line of advance and location of main fighting on October 14.  It would take the 42nd two more weeks to get to the town.

On 14 October, at 0830 hours, the 165th began its push to pierce the stellung. Almost immediately, it began to take heavy artillery fire, and machine gun fire from the Cote de Chatillon a fortified hillock on the regiments left flank. German aircraft had air superiority, and the regiment was strafed by fighters, while observation aircraft directed galling artillery fire. Like their ancestors, the regiment crossed open ground, as enemy fire tore large holes into their line.

Donovan led from the front, yelling “Come on Fellows”. When machine gun fire almost hit him, he told the men, “come on now, they can't hit me, and they won't hit you.”

Once the regiment hit the wire of the stellung, they had great difficulty making progress. Engineers attempted to cut through the wire, but were beaten back by enemy fire. A delayed attack by 9 tanks, did little to help with progress.

On the 15th, Donovan was hit in the knee and was evacuated. He briefly met Father Duffy, the regimental chaplain at the regimental headquarters. In his book, Father Duffy recalled the conversation: “Father, you are a disappointed man. You expected to have the pleasure of burying me over here.”  “I certainly did Bill, and you are a lucky dog to get off with nothing more than you've got.”

By the 16th the attack had failed. Father Duffy wrote:

“When the wire is deep, and still intact, and strongly defended, the infantry can do little but hang their heroic bodies on it. But we should not dwell on this. The most glorious day in the history of our regiment in the Civil War was Fredericksburg, where the Old 69th in the Irish Brigade failed to capture the impregnable position on Marye's Heights, though their dead with green sprigs in their caps lay in rows before it. Landres et St. Georges is our Fredericksburg and the Kriemhilde Stellung our Marye's Heights.”

It would take two weeks of fighting, pushing back German counter-attacks, sniping, and raiding, before the stellung.would be pierced at Landres et St Georges. Then, in a blow to the 165th, the 2nd Division was put into line, and made the final push on November 1st.

Google Street View of the Approx loc of the Kreimhilde Stellung before Landres St Georges,5.0075618,3a,75y,179.04h,64.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPM_8OQF9m7um9-rmmQE6oQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Approximate location of 165th's attack. Looking NE towards the Cote de Chatillon, a fortified hillock that hit the regiments right flank.,5.0004244,3a,67y,84.63h,87.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUkNsSDfIW8ivZlmEMxf51w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The Fighting Irish and the 42nd Raibow Division

During the Civil War, the 69th New York Militia (“The Fighting Irish”) was one of the most storied regiments in the Union Army. The regiment was mostly recruited from Irish immigrants, and its leaders were Irish nationalists. The regiment started its fighting career at Bull Run. But it's most tragic and famous engagement was at Fredericksburg where the 69th lost half of its soldiers trying to take the stone wall at Marye's Heights, The 69th was at all of the major battles in the East up through 1863, but was disbanded after Chancellorsville and Gettysburg due to casualties.

During WWI, the 69th was renamed the 165th Infantry and made part of the 42nd Rainbow division. The Rainbow Division was given that name because it was made up units from 26  states, who covered the US like a “rainbow”.

42nd Rainbow Division Patch

One of the 69th's old Civil War rivals was also part of the 42nd Division. This was the Army of Northern Virginia's 4th Alabama, now named the 167th Infantry. The 69th NY and 4th Alabama, had been on opposite side of many of the same Civil War battlefields.

The 69th in WWI has often been referred to as a celebrity unit.

“Wild Bill” Donovan: The 1st Battalion Commander, who would later go on to be America's spymaster, founder of the WWII era OSS, and later the CIA.
Here is Wild Bill Donovan's page at the CIA:

Wild Bill Himself

Father Francis Duffy: The chaplain who feats of bravery were legendary, and now has a statue on Times Square. Father Duffy's memorial:

Father Duffy

Joyce Kilmer: A famous American poet, who wrote poetry before the Great War. His most famous poem, “Trees” starts: “I think I shall never see, a poem as lovely as a tree...” Joyce Kilmer never left France, he was killed by a sniper, while scouting a German machine gun position in July, 1918. He is buried in France. Some of Joyce Kilmer's WWI poetry.

The Douglas MacArthur memorial has a nice podcast on the 69th at:


In 1940, Hollywood produced a major motion picture about the unit, “The Fighting 69th”. Stars Pat O'Brien at Father Duffy, and James Cagney as skulker who spends most of the movie trying to avoid combat, but finally finds courage in the end. Well worth renting on some rainy afternoon.  The movie generally follows actual events. This clip shows the incident where the unit had its first major casualties, at Rouge Bouquet Farm in France.

Forum-Based Games / Re: Latin Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Last post by JasonPratt on Today at 06:40:35 PM »
Papirius can be raised to priesthood immediately.

OK, not certain exactly how this is done, but Camillus and Cincinnatus should be raised to Counsels, so they can go to war.

Treating this as a formal Proposal.

Henceforth, to speed things along a bit, I will allow a provisional assumption that if the HRAO doesn't include a voting order with his Proposal, then any Faction can vote as soon as they want. In other words, assigning a voting order is a privilege of the HRAO but not a necessity.

AzTank's senators tally 12 votes pro. There are currently 38 votes remaining.
Forum-Based Games / Re: Latin Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Last post by Erax on Today at 06:36:43 PM »
With three more legions we could send 3 vs. the weaker war and 4 vs. the other with a 63% chance of victory for each. In general, the more legions we raise and send to war the fewer we are likely to lose, so in a sense we are saving by raising as many as we can.
Computer Wargaming / Re: Combat Mission status
« Last post by Grim.Reaper on Today at 05:55:07 PM »
lol. I thought that was out already! A couple weeks ago, people were posting about discounts for CMSF 1 owners, so I thought it was out!  :-X

if it was out, nobody would post in this thread:). we only post here when we have something to complain about:)
Forum-Based Games / Re: Latin Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Last post by ArizonaTank on Today at 05:46:46 PM »
OK, not certain exactly how this is done, but Camillus and Cincinnatus should be raised to Counsels, so they can go to war.

Also, lets raise more legions, did I hear a recommendation for two?

In terms of the priesthood, I raise Papirius

I think that is all I can do.
Computer Wargaming / Re: HA! I finished it!
« Last post by Sir Slash on Today at 05:29:03 PM »
Well done indeed, Tuna-maximus. This one is a pretty tough campaign if I remember it correctly.  :clap: :clap: :clap:
Computer Wargaming / Re: Clad in Iron: Sakhalin 1904 Naval Wargame
« Last post by jomni on Today at 05:24:50 PM »
Hi.  The water looks tropical.
Forum-Based Games / Re: Latin Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Last post by JasonPratt on Today at 04:56:01 PM »
(Remember, ignore the "2d6", it's actually 3d6, board misprint. Though come to think of it, I might be able to fix it myself...)

From a purely pragmatic combat theory, not counting political concerns, what you want is to bump that coveted "Victory No losses" slot as low (toward the top of the chart) as feasibly possible.

The Volscian War will nudge it 2 slots higher, totally off the board and creating two more Defeat All Lost slots at the bottom; the Veientine War will bump it a solid 4 slots higher, creating 4 more such absolute defeat slots instead.

Every Legion you can bring to one of those fights, taps the total win slot back one notch toward the bottom; and every point of Mil skill in their Commander will allow a Legion to nudge the absolute win slot two notches lower (toward 3 at the top of the list).

So if you're going after the Veii, for example, your current best possible result, assuming you pick up another 3 Legions to your current logistical maximum, and send them out under the Manly One with his Mil 6 headquarters equals:

-4 War power
+ 7 Legions
+ 6 Manny's HQ
= +9 dice roll modifier.

That means your worst possible result would be a Stalemate with one Legion lost, and your odds of that are 1 in 216. BUT, Manlius won't be able to stop either of the two automatic fails, which aren't outright defeats but which would be pretty costly at 25% or 50% losses rounded up.

If you bring Furius Camilus versus the Veii, he can void either of those two automatic failures -- and the Veientine War has I think a 23% chance of one of them triggering without him! Otherwise his best math looks like:

-4 War power
+7 Legions
+5 Manny's HQ
= +8 dice roll modifier.

That means your worst possible result is a 1 in 216 chance of a Stalemate with 2 Legions lost, and a not much better chance of only 1 Legion lost in a Stalemate. Everything else is a Victory, most likely with no losses. And, with FurryCam, you don't have to worry about the 23% chance of a costly auto-fail.

There are other considerations, of course, including budget, and the expected costs (cash and unrest) of leaving the Volscians to harass your border; or on the other hand of prosecuting their War in a way that's risky or safe but which lowers the chance of a safe victory against the Veian town.

If I may note a political subtlety, though, which has recently become a factor: if you send both Consuls out with a Force against the Wars, Fabius of the Conservatives, Rome's High Priest, will be left behind as the Highest Ranking Available Officer. If your Wars don't win an immediate victory, whoever gets sent out as Consul won't be around to vote or have influence while they're still out in the field (as Proconsuls now).
For anyone that plays or is interested in Savage Worlds, the new version was launched on Kickstarter today.
Computer Wargaming / Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Last post by Steelgrave on Today at 04:51:07 PM »
I haven't cranked Horizon up yet. It's sat untouched on my Steam account like it belongs on The Island of Misfit Toys. Maybe I should give it some love.
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