Consolidated Syria Conflict Thread

Started by Mr. Bigglesworth, September 19, 2015, 04:08:26 PM

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eyebiter



Syria isn't ready for peace yet, too many players on the board right now.



LongBlade

Deir es Zor reminds me of Stalingrad. Just an airport sitting in the middle of nowhere.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Mr. Bigglesworth

Quote from: OJsDad on September 20, 2015, 06:05:53 PM
I would say we're far from certain that those fleeing to Europe want a "western lifestyle".  We already see many that came to Europe and the US want those countries to adapt to their beliefs.

You may have been opposed to the US going into Iraq to start with, but, as many have pointed out, pulling out to soon has proven to be a disaster.  Now you want to go back in with an even more confused and limited scope.  Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Actually, I said at the beginning that Iraq would have to be held for generations for cultural change to take effect.

If you cannot do that then it was better to get out.

What you have now is a volume much greater than refugee rules were meant for. It will become an occupation of Europe. The numbers are big enough to e called an army, and many of them are trained fighters.

I do not see that as working. Any solution has to be for those people to get a normal life in their own country.

Do you have any alternative idea?
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

Mr. Bigglesworth

The simplest way to look at it is:

At this point, you can occupy Syria and Libya, or they will occupy you. Either way, you will have to pay for it.

"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

JasonPratt

As a practical matter, the proposal cannot work without an agreement by Israel to let someone, anyone, presumably the US, hold that Syrian territory instead of Israel.

And I doubt that's ever going to happen. Israel has ancient cultural reasons, still relevant to them, to want land as far north as Damascus (and in modern Lebanon as far north as ancient Tyre and Sidon), just like they want the West Bank of the Jordan River.

I don't see them accepting anyone else's control over the area between their current border and Damascus, even the US's (which will be quite pointless anyway unless we make it at least US official territory with the rights granted by that designation and at least theoretical possibility of becoming one of the United States -- which would trigger all kinds of United Nations protest and armed conflict against the threat of a truly imperialistic US).

So that area would have to be controlled by Israel, given to it by whom? The UN? The US? Triggering massive Middle Eastern retaliation against the 'lackeys of Israel'. And then north of that the partition begins with the US seizing and claiming permanent territory (since unlike West Germany or Japan post-WW2 there is no solid political and cultural infrastructure to promote for handing back over once stability has been achieved), also triggering not only a militant fury from practically everyone not in the First World but even from the United Nations.


In other words, the plan only works if everyone is happy about Israel getting Damascus, and the US getting a Middle Eastern proto-state. And no one anywhere is going to be on board with this, except (arguably) Israel. (And maybe not even them. Nor the general US population for that matter.)
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Mr. Bigglesworth

What was the status of Germany and Japan after WWII? They were not set up a permanent US territory.

I think the security situation for Israel is greatly simplified with the US and Jordan borders. They can then focus on the tunnels from Egypt and the west bank. That is plenty to worry about.

There is no reason Israeli Muslims ( there are quite a few) could not move to the US controlled region as well as moderate Syrians. Even some American Jews. Later it could be turned over as an independent, multi-ethnic State.

Any opinions from our EU based forum members?
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

Gusington

I really doubt that anyone, regardless of their background, could be convinced to move over there unless by gunpoint. I say this as an Anerican jew.


слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

Mr. Bigglesworth

Me either.
So everyone is happy to let the EU become half like the middle East? Is that the best option?
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

undercovergeek

listening to the radio today there isnt one country thats prepared to stand up and say 'NO WAY' west of Hungary

The UK did, but theres not much you can do when the weeping masses huddle over a picture of a dead boy on the beach like its the first and last infant tragedy in the world

IMHO the idiotic, i cant actually type what i want here, liberalist stupidity of the German government in throwing open its doors and saying 'come, come to Germany' is the reason masses are crossing borders to get there - you fkng asked for it Merkl you really did, now you fix it and stop whining about how the rest of Europe wont do their bit

:knuppel2:

Gusington

Guilt has really messed with German politics.


слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

Mr. Bigglesworth

What would be the Muslim reaction if a million Christians per year started taking up residence in Saudi? Methinks they would be royally pissed.

Tolerance seems to be a one way street.
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

undercovergeek

Not one 'stable' Middle eastern or gulf state country will let them in

Atilla60

Quote from: undercovergeek on September 21, 2015, 03:51:58 PM
you fkng asked for it Merkl you really did, now you fix it and stop whining about how the rest of Europe wont do their bit
+1
It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
- Sir Winston Churchill -

LongBlade

Quote from: Atilla60 on September 22, 2015, 08:53:54 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 21, 2015, 03:51:58 PM
you fkng asked for it Merkl you really did, now you fix it and stop whining about how the rest of Europe wont do their bit
+1


And that's the best case scenario.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

mirth

"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can't 'un' until you 'pre', son." - Gus