Net Neutrality Round 2

Started by airboy, November 21, 2017, 11:43:22 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

airboy

Everyone gets caught up in whatever skirt lifting or tweet happened today, but some very big news on the internet, cable, and telecommunications have been happening.

The FTC and FCC have decided to drop all of the Obama internet regulations.  The Obama appointees decided to regulate the internet using 1930s utility laws passed by Congress.  The Obama appointees made this decision after their previous attempts to make up the law as they went along were slapped down by the courts.  This was a pretty stupid decision since the 1930s laws are very heavy handed.  As a result, a lot of investment in broadband went away.

The Trump appointees have decided to scrap this entire regime including the "net neutrality" provisions.  One side of the argument says that "everything on the internet should be equal" while the other says that "making everything equal forever will hamper investment."  Clearly the investment went way down.  At this time, nobody is moving towards blocking anything, but the plans are that certain bandwith hogs such as youtube, Netflix and other video sites may cut deals to keep things going faster.  And now with driverless cars that may pay to get priority.

I think this will be a positive for the US economy in the medium run.  I really think the Obama attempt to force massive regulations on the internet were a mistake.  If Congress decides something less stringent would work they could pass actual laws - oops sorry, the parties hate each other too much to cooperate ::).

But in a totally unexpected move, the Justice department has moved to block the merger of Time-Warner and ATT stating that too much power over internet content and delivery systems.  This very rarely happens with a vertical integration move (as opposed to horizontal integration) and Time & ATT are planning to litigate this.

One of my concerns about Hillary was continuing the stupid Obama regulatory decisions.  One of my concerns about Trump was not using anti-trust.  So far at least, the Trump appointees on regulations are doing what I think is best for the economy and society - a pleasant surprise.   

Martok

I read that earlier today.  I still think it's a dangerous/unsound move, but we'll see. 
"Like we need an excuse to drink to anything..." - Banzai_Cat
"I like to think of it not as an excuse but more like Pavlovian Response." - Sir Slash

"At our ages, they all look like jailbait." - mirth

"If we had lines here that would have crossed all of them. For the 1,077,986th time." - Gusington

"Government is so expensive that it should at least be entertaining." - airboy

"As long as there's bacon, everything will be all right." - Toonces

mirth

Quote from: airboy on November 21, 2017, 11:43:22 AM
Clearly the investment went way down.

It did? Anything to support that assertion?

The problem is that ISPs are not merely providing internet access. Almost all of them (certainly all the major providers) are also content providers. Without Net Neutrality regulations, they can prioritize their own content over other content providers. It is inherently anti-competitive.

ISPs should be doing one thing, providing the best possible internet service for the lowest possible cost. They should not be able to dictate how content is accessed, priced or prioritized.
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can't 'un' until you 'pre', son." - Gus


bayonetbrant

The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

bayonetbrant

Quote from: airboy on November 21, 2017, 11:43:22 AMBut in a totally unexpected move, the Justice department has moved to block the merger of Time-Warner and ATT stating that too much power over internet content and delivery systems.  This very rarely happens with a vertical integration move (as opposed to horizontal integration) and Time & ATT are planning to litigate this.


Yeah, and this has nothing to do with Time-Warner owning CNN, who has been criticizing the President non-stop for a year....  ::)


It was totally unexpected only if you hadn't been listening to Trump's political apparatchiks tell Time-Warner and AT&T in public that unless CNN toned down he rhetoric it could cost them their merger.
The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

bayonetbrant

The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

bayonetbrant

Here's the actual bandwidth-speed comparison from someone who tracked what Comcast did to Netflix

http://mattvukas.com/2014/02/10/comcast-definitely-throttling-netflix-infuriating/


So no, there's not a single damned 'positive' anywhere in the scrapping of net neutrality rules, unless you own an ISP and are salivating at the chance to jack up prices on customers who have become accustomed to access to certain sites / services and are now going to be forced fork out (as much as) double or more just to surf Facebook and watch Netflix. 

But hey, P/E ratios will be up, which'll boost the stock market (short-term gains over long-term investment to make quarterly earnings calls look good) and the Trumpkopfs will continue to crow about how "the economy is booming" even though they don't see one fucking dime from it.

The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

airboy

Quote from: mirth on November 21, 2017, 03:10:57 PM
Quote from: airboy on November 21, 2017, 11:43:22 AM
Clearly the investment went way down.

It did? Anything to support that assertion?

The problem is that ISPs are not merely providing internet access. Almost all of them (certainly all the major providers) are also content providers. Without Net Neutrality regulations, they can prioritize their own content over other content providers. It is inherently anti-competitive.

ISPs should be doing one thing, providing the best possible internet service for the lowest possible cost. They should not be able to dictate how content is accessed, priced or prioritized.

WSJ analysis of investment the 12 months before the Obama rule and the 12 months after the rule.
Your quotes on what a corporation may or may not do in the future is irrelevant.

For an accurate analysis, you have to look at total investment by an industry and not what specific firms do.

RedArgo

From the FCC proposal:

QuoteIndividual consumers, not the government, decide what Internet access service best meets their individualized needs.

I don't know where Mr. Pai lives, but where I live we have crappy Frontier DSL and Comcast, so if you want high speed internet, you have to have Comcast.  That isn't much of a choice for us.

Comcast can basically do as they please under this proposal.

Staggerwing

Quote from: RedArgo on November 22, 2017, 03:56:22 PM
From the FCC proposal:

QuoteIndividual consumers, not the government, decide what Internet access service best meets their individualized needs.

I don't know where Mr. Pai lives, but where I live we have crappy Frontier DSL and Comcast, so if you want high speed internet, you have to have Comcast.  That isn't much of a choice for us.

Comcast can basically do as they please under this proposal.

Including cutting off your access to web sites that it or it's partners and investors do not like. Get ready for only Happy Comcast News.
Vituð ér enn - eða hvat?  -Voluspa

Nothing really rocks and nothing really rolls and nothing's ever worth the cost...

"Don't you look at me that way..." -the Abyss
 
'When searching for a meaningful embrace, sometimes my self respect took second place' -Iggy Pop, Cry for Love

... this will go down on your permanent record... -the Violent Femmes, 'Kiss Off'-

"I'm not just anyone, I'm not just anyone-
I got my time machine, got my 'electronic dream!"
-Sonic Reducer, -Dead Boys

airboy

Not saying it can't happen, but no internet provider has cut off access to sites that I know of (other than illegal stuff).

Cable companies fight with content providers all the time and cut them off, but that is not internet access.

mirth

Quote from: airboy on November 23, 2017, 10:11:18 AM
Not saying it can't happen, but no internet provider has cut off access to sites that I know of (other than illegal stuff).

What's wrong with regulation that doesn't allow ISPs to do things like that? How does that stifle growth or investment?
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can't 'un' until you 'pre', son." - Gus

mirth

Quote from: airboy on November 21, 2017, 05:26:12 PM
For an accurate analysis, you have to look at total investment by an industry and not what specific firms do.

Yep and infrastructure investment by the entire industry is up substantially since the NN regulations were implemented. I guess you could claim it would be up more without the regs, but there really is no data to support such a claim.
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can't 'un' until you 'pre', son." - Gus

bayonetbrant

The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers