Main Menu

Cold Waters

Started by Thomasew, September 28, 2016, 09:55:13 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Toonces

I had a chance to spend a few hours with the Chinese module yesterday.  Man alive, what a mess of submarine warfare.

Operating those big nuke boats in that shallow water simply sucks.  I mean, I knew it would suck, but it was still a bummer. 

I found through a bit of experimentation that there was little value in trying to be too stealthy.  I'm not sure if the acoustic modeling is correct, or if they're still tweaking things, but it seems like the Chinese subs will detect a launch transient almost every time and immediately put a torp down the line of bearing.  I was very unsuccessful at wire-guiding torps off-axis to the target.  Also, enemy subs are all too willing to put a torp in the water if they even have a hint of you.  Operating in shallow water, there is almost nothing you can do but shoot some torps, cut the wires, go flank cavitating all over the place, and start pulling underwater G's.  Skillful use of MOSS was critical.

Finally, on normal settings, my Seawolf took two torps and I could still drive it, although I had to blow tanks and surface to boat to control the flooding.  I don't know if the Seawolf has a super thick hull, or if the Chinese torps have very small warheads, but that seems kind of...ok, I'll say it...unrealistic.

There is some interesting potential here.  What I think bums me out about the game the most in general is that you always start within 10k yards or so of enemy subs.  Depending on how you're being cued to the targets, you could be picking those guys up several convergence zones off.  I'd like an opportunity sometimes, if the water supports it, to start farther out and have a chance to actually maneuver the sub more advantageously.  As it is, it seems like I always end up in the path of the enemy with a choice to randomly turn left or right around their track.  Good if I guess right, bad if I guess wrong before I develop their course.  I never seem to start perpendicular to their track, or even in a tail chase. 

I like this game, but I can only play it in small doses, maybe two or three missions at a sitting.  A game like Silent Hunter has much more operational and tactical decision making required on the player's part IMO.
"If you had a chance, right now, to go back in time and stop Hitler, wouldn't you do it?  I mean, I personally wouldn't stop him because I think he's awesome." - Eric Cartman

"Does a watch list mean you are being watched or is it a come on to Toonces?" - Biggs

IronX

I forgot all about the realism options. Yesterday, my Seawolf took three torpedo hits on what turned out to be the default Casual setting. At the time I thought that was completely unrealistic. So now I'm running on Realistic. Not sure whether I'm game enough yet to play at the highest difficulty setting.

DoctorQuest

I have been trying to keep up. Really.

How do GOG version owners get access to the South China Sea update?
"Everything you read on the internet is true." - Benjamin Franklin

"Zero-G and I feel fine....." - John Glenn

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage, inventor of the alternative fact.

mbar

Quote from: DoctorQuest on June 02, 2018, 09:53:10 PM
I have been trying to keep up. Really.

How do GOG version owners get access to the South China Sea update?

Are you using Galaxy?

Nefaro

#544
Quote from: Toonces on May 28, 2018, 09:45:15 AM
I had a chance to spend a few hours with the Chinese module yesterday.  Man alive, what a mess of submarine warfare.

Operating those big nuke boats in that shallow water simply sucks.  I mean, I knew it would suck, but it was still a bummer. 

I found through a bit of experimentation that there was little value in trying to be too stealthy.  I'm not sure if the acoustic modeling is correct, or if they're still tweaking things, but it seems like the Chinese subs will detect a launch transient almost every time and immediately put a torp down the line of bearing.  I was very unsuccessful at wire-guiding torps off-axis to the target.  Also, enemy subs are all too willing to put a torp in the water if they even have a hint of you.  Operating in shallow water, there is almost nothing you can do but shoot some torps, cut the wires, go flank cavitating all over the place, and start pulling underwater G's.  Skillful use of MOSS was critical.

Finally, on normal settings, my Seawolf took two torps and I could still drive it, although I had to blow tanks and surface to boat to control the flooding.  I don't know if the Seawolf has a super thick hull, or if the Chinese torps have very small warheads, but that seems kind of...ok, I'll say it...unrealistic.

There is some interesting potential here.  What I think bums me out about the game the most in general is that you always start within 10k yards or so of enemy subs.  Depending on how you're being cued to the targets, you could be picking those guys up several convergence zones off.  I'd like an opportunity sometimes, if the water supports it, to start farther out and have a chance to actually maneuver the sub more advantageously.  As it is, it seems like I always end up in the path of the enemy with a choice to randomly turn left or right around their track.  Good if I guess right, bad if I guess wrong before I develop their course.  I never seem to start perpendicular to their track, or even in a tail chase. 

I like this game, but I can only play it in small doses, maybe two or three missions at a sitting.  A game like Silent Hunter has much more operational and tactical decision making required on the player's part IMO.

In shallow water, the ambient noise level should be notably higher than deep sea.  There should be a sizable degradation of sonar performance, especially regarding the low and v-low freq sonars such as the towed and hull sonars on subs.  Plus the more efficient ones in such areas, the medium and hi-freq sonars, are naturally less capable, regarding potential range, than the low freq ones.

I would expect launch transients to be more difficult to detect in those shallow waters.  Even more so if you're using a sub with 'swim-out' fish, such as the Mk48 ADCAP.

DoctorQuest

Quote from: mbar on June 03, 2018, 07:28:16 AM
Quote from: DoctorQuest on June 02, 2018, 09:53:10 PM
I have been trying to keep up. Really.

How do GOG version owners get access to the South China Sea update?

Are you using Galaxy?

I don't normally use it but I cranked it up after I saw your question. All I see for Cold Waters is a patch and a DLC for music. I guess I'll install the patch....
"Everything you read on the internet is true." - Benjamin Franklin

"Zero-G and I feel fine....." - John Glenn

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage, inventor of the alternative fact.

MengJiao

#546
Quote from: DoctorQuest on June 03, 2018, 08:30:47 PM
Quote from: mbar on June 03, 2018, 07:28:16 AM
Quote from: DoctorQuest on June 02, 2018, 09:53:10 PM
I have been trying to keep up. Really.

How do GOG version owners get access to the South China Sea update?

Are you using Galaxy?

   Sverdlov anyway...nice to see this ship:


MengJiao

Quote from: MengJiao on June 21, 2018, 11:48:40 PM


   Sverdlov anyway...nice to see this ship:

   And Riga in Rough Seas:


demjansk1942

I also noticed the game on sale.  Is this a real difficult game?  I don't have that much experience with the naval games. Thanks

MengJiao

Quote from: demjansk1942 on June 24, 2018, 04:53:09 AM
I also noticed the game on sale.  Is this a real difficult game?  I don't have that much experience with the naval games. Thanks

  The GUI for controlling the sub is a lot easier to master than the earlier sub games I've played and interacting with the passive sonar to figure out what exactly the contacts are and what they are and where they are going is much, much easier than in the earlier sub games I've played.  This puts the focus on how to conduct your engagements and there the learning curve may be somewhat steep since for example, a Soviet FFG may detect you at pretty long range if you move too fast and the ducting is good -- if it does, it will drop a smart torpedo near you via a missile and you'll have to know how to use decoys and knuckles and noisemakers to fool and avoid the torpedo.  So that sort of thing will take some learning -- but the interface isn't too complex and there is a multi-step tutorial and a good manual.

Nefaro

Quote from: demjansk1942 on June 24, 2018, 04:53:09 AM
I also noticed the game on sale.  Is this a real difficult game?  I don't have that much experience with the naval games. Thanks

If you're unfamiliar with modern sub warfare & ASW tactics, it will require some learnin' to know what is going on and what to do.

There are probably some primers on such things, for the game, as it's been fairly popular even with those who didn't know all that stuff beforehand.

demjansk1942

I ask since I just finished the book called Rising Tide, great book on the Soviet Union and the Subs in the Cold War.

mirth

Quote from: demjansk1942 on June 24, 2018, 06:42:53 PM
I ask since I just finished the book called Rising Tide, great book on the Soviet Union and the Subs in the Cold War.

+1 Great book.
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can't 'un' until you 'pre', son." - Gus

RyanE

Just saw this posted on the Command forum.

https://youtu.be/mnP_z3qXDCQ

Looks cool but maybe a little silly.  At least shows some of the right weapons.

mirth

Quote from: RyanE on July 27, 2018, 12:27:32 PM
Just saw this posted on the Command forum.

https://youtu.be/mnP_z3qXDCQ

Looks cool but maybe a little silly.  At least shows some of the right weapons.



http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=22710.msg625205#msg625205
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can't 'un' until you 'pre', son." - Gus