Germany lifts HARD ban on swastikas in games? Good or bad idea?

Started by Destraex, August 11, 2018, 04:03:11 AM

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BanzaiCat

When it comes to a game, there's something diluted about shooting pixellated bad guys sporting the Kaiser's iron cross rather than a swastika. The swastika is, of course, a symbol of evil and oppression, of dark power and overwhelming destruction. When you put a swastika as a symbol of the enemies you're fighting, there's something more feral about doing so. It's intangible, but it's there. Fighting Germans with the WWI flag/Iron Cross isn't nearly as impactful as fighting those sporting swastikas, if that makes sense.

Pete Dero

Quote from: BanzaiCat on August 13, 2018, 07:30:42 AM
When it comes to a game, there's something diluted about shooting pixellated bad guys sporting the Kaiser's iron cross rather than a swastika. The swastika is, of course, a symbol of evil and oppression, of dark power and overwhelming destruction. When you put a swastika as a symbol of the enemies you're fighting, there's something more feral about doing so. It's intangible, but it's there. Fighting Germans with the WWI flag/Iron Cross isn't nearly as impactful as fighting those sporting swastikas, if that makes sense.

If I remember correctly I read somewhere that Germany is the most played country in HOI4.  The historical German flag mod is in the top 10 of most downloaded mods.

So it looks like most people like to play for rather than against the swastika, trying to proof that Germany could have won the war without that lunatic running the shots.



HoodedHorseJoe

TBH I never subscribed to the "historical accuracy" argument when it came to wanting the swastika in games before the ban was lifted. I've also never felt it's that credible an argument to begin with.

The history of WW2 is of course very much tied to Hitler as a person, the Nazi party that grew around him and the various horrible things they ended up doing, but this only really matters within the context of historical study and as cautionary tales as to why we must always stand against extreme right-wing politics.

When it comes to games, ESPECIALLY wargames, there is practically zero about the swastika or what it represents that is relevant. Prominent Nazis made policy, but those policies are represented in games regardless of whether the swastika is present or not. Some of the more horrific crimes are usually side-stepped unless it's a more narrative driven (typically non-wargame) experience designed to evoke an emotional response, and again these games can do it quite well without needing the Swastika present. The swastika doesn't make the German military any more or less German, doesn't make their various operational capabilities or plans any more or less good (or bad, depending on battle). The AI won't behave any differently if a Swastika is present or not.

Banzai's point is interesting from an immersion perspective, but I've enjoyed every WW2 game I've every played and I've never felt the need for the Swastika to be implemented as a feature. I've never felt my experience would've been improved with the symbols presence, at any rate.

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Hooded Horse

We are a publisher of indie games with strategic and tactical depth. 28 projects and counting, come check out our portfolio on Steam, GOG, and the Epic Games Store!

You may have seen me around in previous roles such as editor of Wargamer.com and Strategy Gamer.

bayonetbrant

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JudgeDredd

Quote from: Pete Dero on August 13, 2018, 08:02:25 AM
Quote from: BanzaiCat on August 13, 2018, 07:30:42 AM
When it comes to a game, there's something diluted about shooting pixellated bad guys sporting the Kaiser's iron cross rather than a swastika. The swastika is, of course, a symbol of evil and oppression, of dark power and overwhelming destruction. When you put a swastika as a symbol of the enemies you're fighting, there's something more feral about doing so. It's intangible, but it's there. Fighting Germans with the WWI flag/Iron Cross isn't nearly as impactful as fighting those sporting swastikas, if that makes sense.

If I remember correctly I read somewhere that Germany is the most played country in HOI4.  The historical German flag mod is in the top 10 of most downloaded mods.

So it looks like most people like to play for rather than against the swastika, trying to proof that Germany could have won the war without that lunatic running the shots.
Or just because they had such cool kit. That's why I play them. Especially if my other option is the Brits >:D
Alba gu' brath

Jarhead0331

Quote from: WargamerJoe on August 13, 2018, 08:12:17 AM

The history of WW2 is of course very much tied to Hitler as a person, the Nazi party that grew around him and the various horrible things they ended up doing, but this only really matters within the context of historical study and as cautionary tales as to why we must always stand against extreme right-wing politics.


Fixed that for you. Certainly you meant to say, we must always stand against extreme politics...no matter whether it originates from the right, or the left...yes?
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Pete Dero

Quote from: JudgeDredd on August 13, 2018, 08:24:47 AM
Quote from: Pete Dero on August 13, 2018, 08:02:25 AM
Quote from: BanzaiCat on August 13, 2018, 07:30:42 AM
When it comes to a game, there's something diluted about shooting pixellated bad guys sporting the Kaiser's iron cross rather than a swastika. The swastika is, of course, a symbol of evil and oppression, of dark power and overwhelming destruction. When you put a swastika as a symbol of the enemies you're fighting, there's something more feral about doing so. It's intangible, but it's there. Fighting Germans with the WWI flag/Iron Cross isn't nearly as impactful as fighting those sporting swastikas, if that makes sense.

If I remember correctly I read somewhere that Germany is the most played country in HOI4.  The historical German flag mod is in the top 10 of most downloaded mods.

So it looks like most people like to play for rather than against the swastika, trying to proof that Germany could have won the war without that lunatic running the shots.
Or just because they had such cool kit. That's why I play them. Especially if my other option is the Brits >:D

That's because of British flair : 'No need to rush chaps, 10mph is fast enough for our tanks'.

HoodedHorseJoe

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 13, 2018, 08:29:17 AM
Quote from: WargamerJoe on August 13, 2018, 08:12:17 AM

The history of WW2 is of course very much tied to Hitler as a person, the Nazi party that grew around him and the various horrible things they ended up doing, but this only really matters within the context of historical study and as cautionary tales as to why we must always stand against extreme right-wing politics.


Fixed that for you. Certainly you meant to say, we must always stand against extreme politics...no matter whether it originates from the right, or the left...yes?

Yes sorry, extreme politics in general are to be resisted, but the Swastika is a symbol used by the right, and so I only mentioned the right as I was writing. You know how it is when you're following a specific train of thought.
Communications Director
Hooded Horse

We are a publisher of indie games with strategic and tactical depth. 28 projects and counting, come check out our portfolio on Steam, GOG, and the Epic Games Store!

You may have seen me around in previous roles such as editor of Wargamer.com and Strategy Gamer.

em2nought

Condemning Nazis or Commies feels like hypocrisy.  We're much better at killing than they were, we turn it into a medical procedure and even charge for it.  :-"
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mikeck

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